Let's talk about this

Soon-to-be Mrs. Vogt · August 2009

Here's the article:http://www.slate.com/id/2224809/?gt1=38001The question is: do you pay off debt quickly and lessen or quit donating to charity/church or do you continue to give and pay off debt at a slower rate?I guess the difference between tithing and giving to a charity being that some believe that tithing is mandated (and often a fixed amount of total income).

zippityb · August 2009

I liken this to the oxygen mask that falls from overhead on an airplane. You are supposed to put your oxygen mask on first before you help your child. I feel like you need to get your ducks in a row financially before you can be capable of helping others out.

Soon-to-be Mrs. Vogt · August 2009

Linky fail. http://www.slate.com/id/2224809/?gt1=38001

punkyb2b · August 2009

zippity- based on your last 3 posts, I want you to take over for our financial planner/adviser guy. I'm not a fan of his, DH is. what do you do for work?Vogt- I guess it depends. Is it a weekly donation? i'd stop. If its a few bucks here and there towards a friends fundraiser, I'd probably still do that.

Lauren Beth · August 2009

Personally, I would continue to donate/contribute some amount to church while paying off debt. But the amount that I am giving would be lower that the amount I could give without the debt. Then after debt was paid off, I would increase amount for charitable giving.

zippityb · August 2009

I'm an accountant and have a degree in economics. I don't think I'm qualified to give financial advice, but I like to read about money and stuff. I spend a lot of time perusing MSN's money section.

Night_Sprite · August 2009

It depends on priority. Churches don't survive without congregational support, let alone grow. I think if a person is a Christian, he/she will often prioritize the outreach and fellowship of the church along with their debt, because chances are there are other things that could be given up (like movies and eating out) to expedite that process.I'm not a big churchy person, but I tried to answer that from my father's perspective.

Soon-to-be Mrs. Vogt · August 2009

I guess I should answer my own question. I understand the obligation to tithe...we don't do it as strictly as we probably should. But, that's part of our budget and is included no matter what we have to pay (we consider this a utility type item). Charitable giving, in our household, happens when we have money to spare, so the debt would come first. If I'm not able to give as much as I usually do (or can't attend an event or something) I tend to volunteer there more.

tidetravel · August 2009

I'm not Christian, and I apologize if this offends anyone, but I always felt that tithing is like buying your way into heaven. You should be able donate what you can/want to without feeling pressured. I have heard some crazy stories from friends about being berated/harassed by certain churches for not tithing the "proper" amount

angiebear11 · August 2009

I didn't read the article yet, but just based on your quetion I believe in 100% taking care of yourself before you can take care of someone else. And that goes for everything in life, not just regarding charities. It's like how you have to learn to be on your own before your get married. Or how you need to be able to support yourself before having childern and supporting them.

brookelynpaisley · August 2009

If I were in the position, I would pay off debt first. I agree with both zippity and Brie. If I felt that I still needed to give of myself while I was getting myself in a healthier financial position, I would volunteer.

Soon-to-be Mrs. Vogt · August 2009

Tide, I'm with you on churches pressuring people to tithe. I find that very un-Christian. It should be just like a lot of other things...you know you're supposed to do it, and you have to make the choice of whether or not you do.I do think church members have an obligation to contribute to their church though (whether financially, through time/work, or both)

mocha beans · August 2009

I guess I'd rather be out of debt sooner rather than give and be in debt longer. You're paying interest on that debt, and the longer it racks up, the less you can give in the long run. I'd rather give time than money if I've got a bunch of bad debt.

SnShne322 · August 2009

I don't think I can answer this question properly since I had to google tithing. I haven't been to church for anything other than a wedding in 13 years. So for me, paying off debt would be way more important than donating.I could see why people would think it's important, but to me, 13k in consumer debt like the article said is way more important. They could make up for it after the debt is paid off.

LauraT25 · August 2009

Tide - when I was in HS, I was forced to help open the offering envelopes after church and count the money. The lady in charge kept logs of how much each person donated, and would send notices to people who were falling behind their 10% (when you joined, you filled out a form saying how much you would like to donate, and it told you 10% of annual income at least as a recommendation).That's a bit off-topic. IMO, if you can't afford it, you should donate your time if charitable contributions are important to you (as pp's have said). Tithing is a suggestion, and is no longer a requirement - in a different church, we were told it's one of those 'rules' from the bible that has gone the way of not eating shellfish (at least, for Christians).

tidetravel · August 2009

My co-worker was telling me about a church one of her friends wanted her to join. They wanted coworker to bring a copy of her W-2 when she first went. Apparently the church also sends people notices when they fail to tithe the proper amount. As far as my situation, unfortunately, we've had to stop our monthly charity payments, at least for the time being. It sucks, but when you are struggling to buy groceries, it doesn't make much sense to give out money.

ricksang · August 2009

I am to biased against religion to give a fair answer.

mwhitson14 · August 2009

Well, Christians believe that if you pay your tithes to God/the church, He will take care of you. My mom has paid 10% of her and my dad's income for as long as I can remember, once a month. We believe that first and foremost the church gets our money, and then the rest is paid. I suppose the financially sound advice is to say pay off debt quickly before tithing or giving to charity. But churches depend on tithes and donations (as do charities).

Soon-to-be Mrs. Vogt · August 2009

I can speak about tithing from three different experiences. Growing up in the Catholic church, we told the church how much we would contribute per year, and if we didn't make that amount, we did get the letter telling us we were behind. The church we're in now (UMC) expects you to give something. They don't set an amount. We get the letter at the end of the year saying they're missing our contribution if we haven't given anything all year.I used to work for a church group/Christian mission, so here's where I can speak to budget. We based our budget on expected contributions. Amber is exactly right - we thrived on contributions from congregants, and it was impossible to operate or grow without the contributions.Churches provide a service...worship, spiritual guidance, socialization, etc. I'm not saying you should have to pay for that service, but by contributing, you do, in the end, contribute to your own spiritual growth. Tithing is a very un-selfish selfish thing if that makes sense (because you are helping others).

Lauren Beth · August 2009

I am not as familiar with tithing, because in my religious background you just choose how much you would like to contribute and church officials don't know how much money you make and demand a certain percentage. Feeling obligated to give 10% of income would make this situation more difficult, IMO.

Soon-to-be Mrs. Vogt · August 2009

I know, Ricks. Speak about charity instead, if you have to :)You guys know I work for a non-profit (I've only ever worked for non-profits, actually). We, too, depend on generous donations. It really hurts when the economy sucks. The need for our services don't go away, but the donations do (or at least lessen). Charitable giving tends to get hit first. And I understand people need to be able to pay their bills and feed their kids. It's just something to think about.

iamjoesgurl · August 2009

I'm a Christian/Bible believer so I'll give my opinion from that perspective. I don't believe in tithing as an obligation, but as a way to give back a portion of what I've been blessed with. I also believe in living within my means and trying to stay out of debt. I understand that there are seasons in people's lives where they cannot afford to give, but I believe that if it is possible to give without giving up necessities, it should be a priority. Where would charities and churches be without this giving (both time and money). Someone said that if they did not have the money, they would give their time. I feel that is equally important so if I was that deep in debt, I would cut back financial support and try to give of my time. Having said all of that, it makes me sick when people who have a lot don't give. If I can afford to give 10% of my income, they certainly should be able to.

tidetravel · August 2009

Churches provide a service...worship, spiritual guidance, socialization, etc. I'm not saying you should have to pay for that service, but by contributing, you do, in the end, contribute to your own spiritual growth. Tithing is a very un-selfish selfish thing if that makes sense (because you are helping others). I agree with you there. IMO, it just seems that if you are mandated to pay a certain amount (not as a suggestion, but as a condition of entering/remaining a member of a church) it becomes less of a unselfish thing and more of a membership fee. It would be really twisted of a church to kick out/deny spiritual privileges to a member because they couldn't afford to tithe, if they are already having problems buying food and paying their mortgage.

tidetravel · August 2009

I agree that the need for services doesn't go away, and it sucks that non-profits are the first to get hit. I, too, try to donate more of my time if I cannot donate money.

aimerzkd214 · August 2009

Although I believe in God I don't believe in organized religion (there is a story behind that) and I think it is wrong for a church to make people feel like they have to pay money. I feel like you could be giving your money to places that directly help people instead. I think that if you are in debt (other than school loan related) you should pay that off then you will be in a better financial place to give money. While you are paying off the debt you could give in other ways like donate your time.

Soon-to-be Mrs. Vogt · August 2009

aimer - do you really think that churches don't directly help people?I'm not a fan of organized religion, but I still participate (it's a long, personal story). Anyway...I can promise that we do help people. We give school supplies away to children whose parents can't afford to give them everything on the list. We have a community food bank. We have drives for basic supplies like cleaning supplies or paper products to help families out in the harder times (especially winter). We adopt families at Christmas. The list goes on forever, and this is from a small church in a town of 600 people. I'm sure churches in bigger communities do FAR more than we do.It makes me sad that you said that. Churches are a huge asset to communities, whether people choose to worship with them or not.

Soon-to-be Mrs. Vogt · August 2009

Tide, I think that would be really crappy if they denied services because someone didn't tithe.I know that churches do deny "membership" but I haven't quite figured out what that means yet. FI is a "member" of our church and I'm not (yet, I will be when we're married). So far, I've been able to participate in everything members are invited to, whether FI is there or not. I know in the Catholic church, there are some "perks" to being a member...sorry, perks is the only word I could come up with. Baptizing children, getting married in the church, having your marriage recognized, etc. But so far, I haven't seen those things happening in other denominations.

mwhitson14 · August 2009

Churches don't directly help people out? You mean, AA, DivorceCare, DivorceCare for Kids doesn't help people out? The schools supplies that our church donates to all the schools in the area for needy kids doesn't help people out? The building that we allow people to use for free for fundraisers and funerals doesn't help out? There are SO, so many things churches do to benefit our community. And those things require money, even if it's just something small like paying that counselor to do DivorceCare, or making the electricity bill when we've had a funeral there.

aimerzkd214 · August 2009

Vogt- Some do, but in most churches I have been a part of only help people who are of that faith. I think people should get help whether or not they are a part of that faith or any faith.