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Can anyone explain NCLB to me?
Snarky Brides
Can anyone explain NCLB to me?
These Knotties are discussing everything from celebrity gossip to pressing world issues and everything in between.
So I was just reading an article on MSNBC about NCLB and I reailzed that I don't know much about the program as a whole...I did a little reading on wikipedia but I still have a couple of questions...
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Snarky Brides
Can anyone explain NCLB to me?
These Knotties are discussing everything from celebrity gossip to pressing world issues and everything in between.
So I was just reading an article on MSNBC about NCLB and I reailzed that I don't know much about the program as a whole...I did a little reading on wikipedia but I still have a couple of questions...
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Can anyone explain NCLB to me?

posted at 2/9/2012 11:36 AM EST on theknot.com
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So I was just reading an article on MSNBC about NCLB and I reailzed that I don't know much about the program as a whole...I did a little reading on wikipedia but I still have a couple of questions...

Apparently 95% of students are expected to be proficient in reading (and math?) but at the same time schools are expected to out perform the previous year each following year (meaning that score should improve year after year after year and if they don't there are interventions)...and then their results on both of these dictate funding/intervention? But each state sets their own standard for prociency and their own test to assess proficiency?

Amd I understanding it correctly?  

Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?

posted at 2/9/2012 11:39 AM EST on theknot.com
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If you are totally confused and a little offended as a teacher, then you are probably understanding it correctly.
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Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?

posted at 2/9/2012 11:42 AM EST on theknot.com
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In Response to Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?:
If you are totally confused and a little offended as a teacher, then you are probably understanding it correctly.
Posted by SarahPLiz


Ha! Mostly just reading the comments but I am pretty used to people thinking teachers are lazy and bad at their jobs.   

In terms of the program I just don't see how it is actually feasible to expect 95% of a population to reach a certain benchmark unless that benchmark is really low but you can't win elections saying stuff like that.

Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?

posted at 2/9/2012 11:46 AM EST on theknot.com
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Basically, the program is stupid.

All I know is MN was given an exemption (along with 9 other states.)  I *think* that was done because MN was able to prove that their school systems are good enough without having to answer to big brother. 
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Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?

posted at 2/9/2012 11:49 AM EST on theknot.com
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My senior year in high school, my school was classified as an "A" school.  You can't improve beyond an "A."  We were punished and lost funding because we did not "show adequate yearly progress."

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Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?

posted at 2/9/2012 11:50 AM EST on theknot.com
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In Response to Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?:
Basically, the program is stupid. All I know is MN was given an exemption (along with 9 other states.)  I *think* that was done because MN was able to prove that their school systems are good enough without having to answer to big brother. 
Posted by Steph+J


Ohhh! That makes more sense. I thought the exemption meant they were not meeting expectations but needed more time...

Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?

posted at 2/9/2012 11:54 AM EST on theknot.com
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NLCB= good intentions, bad implementation. I don't think there was enough thought put into how it was executed by the school districts and the state and US Dept of Education.

Some states were freed from it today though
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Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?

posted at 2/9/2012 11:59 AM EST on theknot.com
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I don't know how true this is, but according to my aunt, special education students can not be held back a grade under NCLB.  One of her kids is received some special education services, but was mainstreamed for most of his classes.  He was failing all his classes, but still was forced to be "promoted" to the next grade each year anyway.  So he was getting further and further behind his peers.  She finally decided to start home schooling him (and her other 2 school-aged children) instead.

This is in IL, and again I have no idea if my aunt actually understood correctly - I wonder if it was just that specific school doing it and not a result of NCLB?  I'm not sure, but she said it was a direct result of NCLB anyway. 

Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?

posted at 2/9/2012 12:03 PM EST on theknot.com
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I agree with Heather. I think it had the right intentions, but it just ended up screwing over those schools that were already performing well as well as those schools that legitimately needed help (not punishment.)

Numbers- yeah. Exemption in this case is a good thing.  I know it's been in the news here for awhile that MN was fighting to be released from the NCLB standards.  MN typically is pretty well-known for having good schools, though. But i know it was a huge process to prove it. 

I think one of the big issues is assuming that students across the country should be held to the same standards.  Sure, we should fight to make sure all children in the US receive an outstanding education, but there still needs to be leway.  MN has a huge issue making sure we have enough ESL teachers (for both the Somali and Hispanic communities).  Other states might not need to worry about this, or may have other language needs.  The history lessons taught in MN are obviously going to be different than those taught in, say, California, or the East Coast. 
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Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?

posted at 2/9/2012 12:04 PM EST on theknot.com
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Basically, it makes it in the best interest of school districts to pass weird policies like the one that they have here that you can't give a student an F. They can't fail.You can't give them 0s on assignments or tests, you ahve to give them the lowest D grade possible. This is true, as I have friends who teach under nonsense like this. 

They do this not because its in the best interest of the student, but because of how it ties into their federal score, which = money. Ludacris!
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Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?

posted at 2/9/2012 12:23 PM EST on theknot.com
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Sarah, my principal suggest this, and it went over like a lead balloon.  One thing we did discuss was allowing students to make up work so they weren't stuck with an F and the student would quit trying because there was no way they could pass.

Numbers- you are understanding it correctly. NCLB was well intentioned. However proficient is really hard to get, there is no way we will get 95% of kid proficient. We didn't make AYP (adequate yearly progress) for two years now, However AYP is based on a set of standardized tests put out by the state that are generated and scored by Houghton Mifflin and IMO aren't adequate measures of student learning. They are given in March (really?) and we stop teaching for two weeks to stick all the kids in a room to take very confusing standardized tests.
If any one group (sped, ESL/ELA, math or reading or writing) doesnt show MORE than one year's worth of growth from March to March you don't make AYP.

I am very grateful CO also get exempted.

Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?

posted at 2/9/2012 12:24 PM EST on theknot.com
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I like to call it "no kid gets ahead" instead of NCLB.  Same rules, different name.

Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?

posted at 2/9/2012 12:25 PM EST on theknot.com
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In Response to Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?:
I like to call it "no kid gets ahead" instead of NCLB.  Same rules, different name.
Posted by pirategal03


I can agree with that, it tries to equalize all the kids to middle for sure.

Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?

posted at 2/9/2012 12:25 PM EST on theknot.com
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Posted on FB this morning:


I'm so glad I'm not teaching anymore.  I had kids that were taking senior & sophomore english simultaneously but somehow managed to pass junior english.  wtf?

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Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?

posted at 2/9/2012 12:27 PM EST on theknot.com
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In Response to Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?:
In Response to Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me? : I can agree with that, it tries to equalize all the kids to middle for sure.
Posted by DNAtime


Exactly. 

Oh, your AP Calc class got pulled so the teacher has time for ANOTHER remedial algebra class?  No problem, just take teen parenting instead. 

Can you tell this hits a nerve for me?

Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?

posted at 2/9/2012 12:31 PM EST on theknot.com
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JCB. I totally feel that way all the time. When a parent tells me to not bother them with their childs problems and behaviors, how is it my fault that that student is out of control?

I think somethings that NCLB did that were positive was force teachers to by highly qualified in the subjects and grades that you teach.   Which I think is a benefit to students.

Also, it forced states and districts to formalize content standards so all students are learning the same thing at the same time.
Frankly I think we should take formalized standards and curriculum to the national level.

Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?

posted at 2/9/2012 12:33 PM EST on theknot.com
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In Response to Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?:
In Response to Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me? : Exactly.  Oh, your AP Calc class got pulled so the teacher has time for ANOTHER remedial algebra class?  No problem, just take teen parenting instead.  Can you tell this hits a nerve for me?
Posted by pirategal03


I can tell. But thats okay. I think NCLB failed to notice that successful education isn't giving every child the same thing,  but giving every child what they need.

Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?

posted at 2/9/2012 12:46 PM EST on theknot.com
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In Response to Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?:
In Response to Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me? : I can tell. But thats okay. I think NCLB failed to notice that successful education isn't giving every child the same thing,  but giving every child what they need.
Posted by DNAtime

When I was in college (years ago), they would refer to that as 'tracking' and unfair.  Their theory was that kids in the lower level classes wouldn't perform as well b/c they weren't being held to the same standards.  And that higher level kids were being given preferential treatment.  Thus we had schools like the one where I taught - I had kids that were SO smart in the same classroom as the kids that had failed sophomore english twice.  As a teacher, it was a HUGE challenge to try to teach to such varying degrees of skill levels.

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Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?

posted at 2/9/2012 12:49 PM EST on theknot.com
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In Response to Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?:
In Response to Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me? : When I was in college (years ago), they would refer to that as 'tracking' and unfair.  Their theory was that kids in the lower level classes wouldn't perform as well b/c they weren't being held to the same standards.  And that higher level kids were being given preferential treatment.  Thus we had schools like the one where I taught - I had kids that were SO smart in the same classroom as the kids that had failed sophomore english twice.  As a teacher, it was a HUGE challenge to try to teach to such varying degrees of skill levels.
Posted by jcbsjr


But so are the lower level kids.  I don't get this argument.  Everyone is receiving preferential treatment if you're holding each kid to individual standards.

Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?

posted at 2/9/2012 12:51 PM EST on theknot.com
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Pirate, I didn't get it then and I don't get it now.  At the hs I went to, they did separate the kids by skill level.  I didn't see kids underperforming just b/c they weren't in honors classes.  But the kids that were in honors classes would have been bored out of their skulls without the more challenging curriculum.

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Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?

posted at 2/9/2012 12:55 PM EST on theknot.com
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I hate NCLB.  A national level standard will NEVER work for this country.  Each state should be able to make it's own set of "standards".  I put them in air quotes because I don't mean that each school needs to do the same things to reach those standards.  I hink thte standards should be widespread and should reflect each district setting it's own (approved) goals/standards and then evaluated on how well they hit those standards

Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?

posted at 2/9/2012 1:15 PM EST on theknot.com
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I'm biting my tongue on drawing a socialism/union comparison here, fyi. 
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Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?

posted at 2/9/2012 1:18 PM EST on theknot.com
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In Response to Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?:
I'm biting my tongue on drawing a socialism/union comparison here, fyi. 
Posted by Steph+J


Do it ;) You know you want to

Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?

posted at 2/9/2012 1:23 PM EST on theknot.com
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It's just very similar to me.  The idea that bringing everyone to the mean is what's 'fair', when really that can not only place unfair pressure on those who might not be able to perform to that level (or want to).  Meanwhile, prohibiting those who want to exceed past 'normal' or 'average.'

I was very lucky that I had a fantastic HS that had not only supreme AP offerings (all except two tests) but also had a great track record of helping those with learning disabilities and a whole bunch of 'basic' level classes. You could take a basic level math class, but an AP English class if that's where your talents rested. It really bothers me to know that the trend now is to just shove everyone in the same classes because it's only fair if everyone is treated the same. NOT EVERYONE IS THE SAME, and they shouldn't be taught like they are.

That being said, I need to throw out a necessary disclaimer too, I have a feeling.  In no way do I think this is only the fault of teachers. I realize it's a huge undertaking to be able to accommodate all different levels of learning.  I think it's a district-wide issue (and beyond), that unfortunately exists because tax-payers refuse to recognize the importance of educating the next generation(s). 
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Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?

posted at 2/9/2012 1:23 PM EST on theknot.com
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In Response to Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?:
I hate NCLB.  A national level standard will NEVER work for this country.  Each state should be able to make it's own set of "standards".  I put them in air quotes because I don't mean that each school needs to do the same things to reach those standards.  I hink thte standards should be widespread and should reflect each district setting it's own (approved) goals/standards and then evaluated on how well they hit those standards
Posted by chelseamb11


I absolutely disagree with this. IMO I don't see why we can't have national standards and curriculum. If we want to compete internationally (which I feel is brought up whenever this issue comes up at the national level) nationalizing standard and curriulum is exactly what we need to do.
Why can't evey 6th grader in America be taught adding and subracting fractions? (for example) 

JCB, this is the age old debate, you watch movies like Waiting for Superman and they go on and on about the injustices of tracking. Blah.  I am not a fan. There is also a concept of regressing to the mean. We are moving to a total inclusion modetl with our sped kids next year. I am not sure this will really benefit them. I think that most of the complaints of low standards in low classes is based on the teaching philosophy of the "low" classes not the existance of low classes themselves.

Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?

posted at 2/9/2012 1:30 PM EST on theknot.com
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In Response to Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?:
I It really bothers me to know that the trend now is to just shove everyone in the same classes because it's only fair if everyone is treated the same. NOT EVERYONE IS THE SAME, and they shouldn't be taught like they are. .  Posted by Steph+J


I absolutely agree with this statement.

Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?

posted at 2/9/2012 1:34 PM EST on theknot.com
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In Response to Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?:
Basically, it makes it in the best interest of school districts to pass weird policies like the one that they have here that you can't give a student an F. They can't fail.You can't give them 0s on assignments or tests, you ahve to give them the lowest D grade possible. This is true, as I have friends who teach under nonsense like this.  They do this not because its in the best interest of the student, but because of how it ties into their federal score, which = money. Ludacris!
Posted by SarahPLiz

That is utterly ridiculous to me and one reason why the district I taught it just sucked.  Kids just got passed along from grade to grade (untill high school) whether they could pass any sort of skill set for the grade they were in or not.  They could recommend that a child repeat a grade but not require it.  Makes no sense to me.  But is exactly why I had students that couldn't spell, write a complete sentence, and could barely even read.

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Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?

posted at 2/9/2012 1:39 PM EST on theknot.com
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In Response to Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?:
It's just very similar to me.  The idea that bringing everyone to the mean is what's 'fair', when really that can not only place unfair pressure on those who might not be able to perform to that level (or want to).  Meanwhile, prohibiting those who want to exceed past 'normal' or 'average.' . 
Posted by Steph+J


It's asinine.

Steph, I think my HS was very much like yours. A student could be in remedial math, but be taking AP English or AP Spanish at the same time, for instance. The tracking system, if implemented the correct way, is much more effective than NCLB (in my opinion, anyway). I always had trouble with math, so I was tracked lower in math classes. At the same time, though, I was taking Honors Spanish 3 and AP Art History. If I had been forced to struggle through "standard" track math and put into "standard" Spanish, I would have been frustrated out of my mind in math and bored out of my mind in Spanish (and my grades would have undoubtedly suffered in both).

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Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?

posted at 2/9/2012 1:47 PM EST on theknot.com
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Exactly confka.  I suck at history, so I was in the 'regular' history the first two years of HS.  But, I was in 11th grade math (AP Calc BC- level 2) my sophomore year.  If I had been forced to either take all higher level classes because of my math, I would've failed history.  If I had been forced to take only regular classes, I would've been bored out of my mind in math and English (and probably pissed off the teacher and disrupted the class for everyone else, tbh.)
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Re: Can anyone explain NCLB to me?

posted at 2/9/2012 2:00 PM EST on theknot.com
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Yeah, so you all have too many different systems for me to keep track but of ours has both good aspects to it and others that I could do without.

We don't fail kids at elementary, but we do at secondary. But if a kid fails a class at secondary we have a ton of intervention that goes into helping them get back on track. Here you can take whatever levels of whatever classes you want. We technically have four levels of grade 11 and 12 classes:  university, college, workplace and open (which would be a mix of any level of kid)...You can't apply to university if you don't have the requisite level university classses for whichever program you want to apply to. We have stadardized testing in language and math three times in a student's career: grade 3, 6 and then 9 (math) and 10 (literacy).  If you don't pass the grade 10 lit test you don't get a high school 'diploma' but you can still get a high school 'certificate'. 

I don't know if a perfect system exists. I have a lot of thoughts about what works vs. what doesn't but that would be a really long post. 
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