guests substituting other guests

peachy0722

I'm so tired of guests (and my parents) assuming that if invited guest A can't come, then that means uninvited guest B can take their place instead. Does this happen to anyone else?

FI and I are having a small wedding of 50 guests, and the save the dates have been sent. My parents (who are paying for a substantial portion of the wedding) were fine with our guest list, which included my aunts & uncles but not cousins. All of my extended family lives far away, so I wasn't really expecting them to attend. BUT I am still not wanting to over-invite, since our venue space is limited.

That being said, my mom called to say that my aunt "and family" are making plans to attend, and I had to remind her that cousins were not invited (they are all adult cousins, btw). Then she goes on to say that my uncle probably won't come, so one of the cousins can attend instead. Ok. Fine.

And my dad keeps contemplating a scenario where my grandparents might attend if another one of my cousins decided to go with them. I replied with the standard, "Ummm, but the cousin is not invited??" He claims this can happen because his sister and brother-in-law will likely not attend, so there would be space.

I'm sure I'm probably overreacting, but I just find it very very annoying. Is it common for people to feel entitled to substitute other guests? Maybe I'm just annoyed because people assume they can do this. Ultimately it is family so I will let it go. But FI and I wanted to make a blanket statement of "no cousins are invited due to space" so that other cousins would not feel left out. Blahhhh.

Inkdancer

You need to put your foot down ASAP. These "X and Y will probably not attend so Z can come" can quickly turn into X, Y, and Z all showing up and now there's not enough seating.

It's unfortunately rather common for guests to think they can substitute other guests.

HisGirlFriday13

peachy0722 said:

I'm so tired of guests (and my parents) assuming that if invited guest A can't come, then that means uninvited guest B can take their place instead. Does this happen to anyone else?

FI and I are having a small wedding of 50 guests, and the save the dates have been sent. My parents (who are paying for a substantial portion of the wedding) were fine with our guest list, which included my aunts & uncles but not cousins. All of my extended family lives far away, so I wasn't really expecting them to attend. BUT I am still not wanting to over-invite, since our venue space is limited.

That being said, my mom called to say that my aunt "and family" are making plans to attend, and I had to remind her that cousins were not invited (they are all adult cousins, btw). Then she goes on to say that my uncle probably won't come, so one of the cousins can attend instead. Ok. Fine.

And my dad keeps contemplating a scenario where my grandparents might attend if another one of my cousins decided to go with them. I replied with the standard, "Ummm, but the cousin is not invited??" He claims this can happen because his sister and brother-in-law will likely not attend, so there would be space.

I'm sure I'm probably overreacting, but I just find it very very annoying. Is it common for people to feel entitled to substitute other guests? Maybe I'm just annoyed because people assume they can do this. Ultimately it is family so I will let it go. But FI and I wanted to make a blanket statement of "no cousins are invited due to space" so that other cousins would not feel left out. Blahhhh.

This didn't happen to me, but it has happened to other brides on the boards, so you're not alone.

Invitations aren't subpoenas -- people can decline them -- but they are non-transferrable. If Bob and Sue Jones are invited, and Bob can't come, Sue's choices are to come alone or decline as well; she doesn't get to bring Mary Smith as her plus-one, because she wasn't GIVEN a plus-one, she was invited with her husband.

It sounds like your family is trying to B-list people -- invite others to fill the slots after first-choice guests have declined, which is rude. Also, allowing some people to substitute guests will break your circle invites (i.e., all aunts/uncles, but no cousins, but if Aunt A brings her kid, a cousin, instead of Uncle A, then some cousins are 'invited.')

The bolded statement especially sounds like B-listing, and it's liable to cause some hurt feelings. Even though it's family, it's completely reasonable of you and your FI to want to make a blanket statement of 'no cousins' and have that honoured.

However, if your parents are paying, they get a say, and if they're OK with substituting and B-listing and causing hurt feelings, there's not a whole lot you can do.

peachy0722

HisGirlFriday13 said:

However, if your parents are paying, they get a say, and if they're OK with substituting and B-listing and causing hurt feelings, there's not a whole lot you can do.

This is how I feel, unfortunately. 

I hadn't thought of it as B-listing (as none of the substitutes would get a formal invitation), but you're right. I was not going to have a B-list, but the sad thing is -- even if I was, it definitely wouldn't be for these random cousins!! 

My mom takes the cake. She says my uncle probably won't come, but the most it would be is three -- my aunt, uncle and cousin. Well they don't get three, we invited two! Aaaarrrrrgggggg. It's making me want to rip my hair out.

They don't see it as a problem. They see it as, well we invited X amount of people from the family, so X amount of people from the family can come. How can I explain this is rude? I feel like if my family has a 10% turnout, it will be hard to justify why they couldn't bring their substitutions.

MaryGraceRich

I had the exact same thing happen to me twice already. I am invited my dads cousin and his wife. The cousin cat make it but his wife can. She called my stepmother to ask if her daughter can come instead. Stepmom is awesome and said nope.
Second incident is with another of my dads cousins. She said that since her brother wont be coming she would like to bring her daughter and daughter husband. My grandmother told her no.
My family is awesome for backing me up.

Amyzen83

HisGirlFriday13 said:

peachy0722 said:

I'm so tired of guests (and my parents) assuming that if invited guest A can't come, then that means uninvited guest B can take their place instead. Does this happen to anyone else?

FI and I are having a small wedding of 50 guests, and the save the dates have been sent. My parents (who are paying for a substantial portion of the wedding) were fine with our guest list, which included my aunts & uncles but not cousins. All of my extended family lives far away, so I wasn't really expecting them to attend. BUT I am still not wanting to over-invite, since our venue space is limited.

That being said, my mom called to say that my aunt "and family" are making plans to attend, and I had to remind her that cousins were not invited (they are all adult cousins, btw). Then she goes on to say that my uncle probably won't come, so one of the cousins can attend instead. Ok. Fine.

And my dad keeps contemplating a scenario where my grandparents might attend if another one of my cousins decided to go with them. I replied with the standard, "Ummm, but the cousin is not invited??" He claims this can happen because his sister and brother-in-law will likely not attend, so there would be space.

I'm sure I'm probably overreacting, but I just find it very very annoying. Is it common for people to feel entitled to substitute other guests? Maybe I'm just annoyed because people assume they can do this. Ultimately it is family so I will let it go. But FI and I wanted to make a blanket statement of "no cousins are invited due to space" so that other cousins would not feel left out. Blahhhh.

This didn't happen to me, but it has happened to other brides on the boards, so you're not alone.

Invitations aren't subpoenas -- people can decline them -- but they are non-transferrable. If Bob and Sue Jones are invited, and Bob can't come, Sue's choices are to come alone or decline as well; she doesn't get to bring Mary Smith as her plus-one, because she wasn't GIVEN a plus-one, she was invited with her husband.

It sounds like your family is trying to B-list people -- invite others to fill the slots after first-choice guests have declined, which is rude. Also, allowing some people to substitute guests will break your circle invites (i.e., all aunts/uncles, but no cousins, but if Aunt A brings her kid, a cousin, instead of Uncle A, then some cousins are 'invited.')

The bolded statement especially sounds like B-listing, and it's liable to cause some hurt feelings. Even though it's family, it's completely reasonable of you and your FI to want to make a blanket statement of 'no cousins' and have that honoured.

However, if your parents are paying, they get a say, and if they're OK with substituting and B-listing and causing hurt feelings, there's not a whole lot you can do.

Couldn't have said this better myself

NeverEnoughCoffee

I had something similar happen this morning. A friend of mine emailed me to say that she might not be able to attend the wedding since she'll be about 8 months pregnant and likely very uncomfortable but she will send her sister in her place. 

I'll never understand the logic.

Amyzen83

NeverEnoughCoffee said:

I had something similar happen this morning. A friend of mine emailed me to say that she might not be able to attend the wedding since she'll be about 8 months pregnant and likely very uncomfortable but she will send her sister in her place. 

I'll never understand the logic.

Why don't people get that if you can't come fine but I'm friends with you not your uninvited sister! Also it's possible there's a reason specific people are left off the guest list that other guests don't need to know, and it's rude for them to assume any random persons ok to sub in for them,

HisGirlFriday13

peachy0722 said:

HisGirlFriday13 said:

However, if your parents are paying, they get a say, and if they're OK with substituting and B-listing and causing hurt feelings, there's not a whole lot you can do.

This is how I feel, unfortunately. 

I hadn't thought of it as B-listing (as none of the substitutes would get a formal invitation), but you're right. I was not going to have a B-list, but the sad thing is -- even if I was, it definitely wouldn't be for these random cousins!! 

My mom takes the cake. She says my uncle probably won't come, but the most it would be is three -- my aunt, uncle and cousin. Well they don't get three, we invited two! Aaaarrrrrgggggg. It's making me want to rip my hair out.

They don't see it as a problem. They see it as, well we invited X amount of people from the family, so X amount of people from the family can come. How can I explain this is rude? I feel like if my family has a 10% turnout, it will be hard to justify why they couldn't bring their substitutions.

Could you try explaining to your parents that you didn't WANT Cousins X, Y, Q, R, and P invited, so you didn't invite them, and cancellations don't mean opening in the guest list for people you didn't want there in the first place?

Would that work?

monkeysip

I didn't have anyone tell me they'd substitute in advance, but I did have a substitution show up on the day of.

Walking down the aisle, I saw a face I didn't recognize and had a second of panic, lol, thinking there wouldn't be a seat/meal for this person. Turned out, one of H's uncles couldn't make it, so his aunt brought her granddaughter instead.  

Wasn't a big deal since the seat was already open and meal paid for, but I can definitely understand being frustrated, especially when you haven't even sent the invitations out yet!

Mandafly84

"It's an invitation for a specific person, not an admission ticket." -Best line I heard on TK when I was planning, and it worked like a charm for me when these types of scenarios kept threatening my guest list.

peachy0722

HisGirlFriday13 said:

Could you try explaining to your parents that you didn't WANT Cousins X, Y, Q, R, and P invited, so you didn't invite them, and cancellations don't mean opening in the guest list for people you didn't want there in the first place?

Would that work?

Hmm. I'm just thinking saying i don't WANT certain family members there may not go over too well with my parents (even if it's true, haha). 

It's really weird though when this substitute cousin is someone I've never even met, but the cousin who lives near me and who I see occasionally was not invited. This seems wrong to me, which is why I saw cousins as an all-or-nothing thing.

I may be able to argue with that logic, but then my mom will say how my aunt would not possibly travel all that way by herself. (Which honestly, her not attending is not something I will lose sleep over.)

I've been trying to be fair, follow etiquette, and keep our numbers in check. But when family seems so laid back about everything it makes me crazy! I feel like whenever I try to explain etiquette they just think I'm being a nit-picky bridezilla.

AddieCake

Substitutions don't bother me if they are the plus one/"date" of someone. Your husband can't come so you bring your sister? OK by me.

lyndausvi

AddieL73 said:

Substitutions don't bother me if they are the plus one/"date" of someone. Your husband can't come so you bring your sister? OK by me.

I was the same way.

About your grandparents...  I invited my 104 year old Nana (my deceased grandfather's long time companion).  I invited her with a guest (or 2) because the only way she could get there was if someone else drove.  I didn't care who these people were, I wanted her there and that was the best way make it happen.   Now I don't know your grandparent's situation or if you even care about their attendance, but older people often need a driver of sorts to attend events. I think allowing them to invite someone of their choice to drive them is being courteous. 

peachy0722

lyndausvi said:

AddieL73 said:

Substitutions don't bother me if they are the plus one/"date" of someone. Your husband can't come so you bring your sister? OK by me.

I was the same way.

About your grandparents...  I invited my 104 year old Nana (my deceased grandfather's long time companion).  I invited her with a guest (or 2) because the only way she could get there was if someone else drove.  I didn't care who these people were, I wanted her there and that was the best way make it happen.   Now I don't know your grandparent's situation or if you even care about their attendance, but older people often need a driver of sorts to attend events. I think allowing them to invite someone of their choice to drive them is being courteous. 

I hear you. Honestly I never see my grandparents and they don't know me very well. We moved away when I was young, and we did not visit often. I wouldn't mind if they attend, but I did not expect them to -- it'd be quite the journey for them. So I kinda assumed if they did come, my aunts/uncles would also and help them. If everyone pushes for my cousin to take them instead, I'm not going to make a huge fuss. I guess i'm just annoyed that family members would assume invited guests could be switched around as they see fit without asking.

I also worry about it being a slippery slope -- one cousin attends, and others start thinking, oh I want to go too, maybe Uncle X isn't going to go and I can take his place, etc etc.

OR maybe I worry too much .

tesgirl123

I am with you!!!   I am 3 1/2 weeks out and my FFIL tried to add people this past weekend, claiming it was a B-list.   Fortunately my FMIL shot him down.       Also, my FFIL's best friend from childhood cannot come to the wedding due to genuine health issues(we're all actually quite upset about this) but my FFIL offered the invite to one of his sons to "represent the family."   I was like this is a wedding not the signing of a peace treaty.   i just thought it was very weird and strange.     I can understand last minute things where the guest doesn't want a paid for plate to go to waste, but people get a little ridiculous.

bananasplit472001

This is happening to me right now. We are inviting 80 guests. We are aware some will not show up due to circumstances. My FI family thinks it's ok to substitute more of their extended family into their places. I've just said no everytime and will continue to. Only guests that receive an invitation can come to your wedding. Tell your family that any uninvited wedding guests that happen to show up will be ignored. Hopefully that will stop any more causal invites from being given.

itsmestacey123

This exact scenario is happening to me too!  We are having a small (under 40 guest) destination wedding and one of my FI's friends wants to subsitute her female friend or mom for her long-term boyfriend that doesn't fly.  We had to flat out tell her that her substitutes are not invited.  They are more than welcome to travel with her and spend time on vacation with her, but they are not invited to the wedding.  The way we explained it was that we are trying to have a very intimate party with our closest friends and family and we invited her and her BF because we we only invited those that we wanted to be there with us on our day.  If your boyfriend can't make it, sorry.  Too bad.  If that makes you not want to come to our wedding, then don't come! There will be plenty of other friends there that she knows.  At first, she said "of course, I understand," but then later sent some nasty text messages complaining to FI.  Call me bridezilla, snarky, whatever - but I just don't want strangers at my wedding.

My advice: Stick to your guns.  Just keep saying NO and eventually they will get that you mean it!

 

AlwaysMrsWrite

Um yes, I am with with you! On the day my RSVPs were due, my number was a lot less than what I was expecting, but I knew a few stragglers would still come and I didn't really count the ones who had verbally RSVPd. My mom took that exasperation as her invitation to INVITE MORE PEOPLE!! Yes, without a Save the Date or invite, just a good ol' "Hey, wanna come to a destination wedding??" and unlucky for me, these people are actually coming.

Dont get me wrong, Im grateful that these people love me (or I guess my mom) enough to travel to come see me get married but what the heck, mom!? Now Im 5 people over our max headcount and 10 over our expected headcount.

Oh, and my dear mother, who promised to give us a set amount of money (that she and my dad came up with) took months for that to be delivered and it was a few thousand dollars short.

And she wants to add a harpist.

And she wants to do all these outings.

I wonder where she thinks all this money is coming from!?