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Moms and Maids

Interfaith problems with the MOBs.

My mother is an Asatru Shaman, my siblings are Asatru, I am a Pantheist and FI and her family are all Hindu. My mother has asked FI and I if we can perform a Asatru ritual at some point in the day (it's a ritual that only involves the wedding couple and immediate family, so it won't be during the ceremony) which FI and I have zero problems with, seeing as it is the religion I was brought up with and it's really important to my mother. We told FIs family about it and on the whole they were absolutely fine with it, until FI's mother found out that she had to be in the ritual. And now she says she's not coming to the wedding if she has to perform the ritual (which both FI and I think is bullshit), but all the same, we want her to be at least okay with having to do the ritual. I'm doing Hindu rituals that I don't believe in, but its really important to FI, so I'm quite happy to do them. My mother is paying for some of the wedding, I can't just turn around and say 'no, you can't have a ritual that's really important to you that we've already said is fine'. And we are just kind of lost with what to do.
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Re: Interfaith problems with the MOBs.

  • Can the ritual be adjusted so that MIL doesn't have to participate? Can someone substitute like a sibiling, aunt, grandmother or even a godmother?

  • It can be done without her, yes, but its so majorly disrespectful to my mother that it may as well not be done at all.
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  • @HisGirlFriday13 I'm not saying we are forcing her to do it. I'm saying either she does it, or it doesn't happen. We're leaving the choice up to her. If you was deceased, it would be different, my father's deceased. But that wasn't a choice he made. As I said, there is a way to do it, but it is disrespectful when you can do it, to chose not to.
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  • @HisGirlFriday13 It's disrespectful because the ritual is about binding a family together. In refusing to take part in the ritual, she is essentially refusing to count herself as part of our family. Which means, as per the Asatru religion that she does not give her blessing on the marriage. It's also disrespectful because my family are partaking in about five rituals which are not part of our religions, and would suggest that my FMIL thinks herself above me and my family.
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  • @HisGirlFriday13 It's disrespectful because the ritual is about binding a family together. In refusing to take part in the ritual, she is essentially refusing to count herself as part of our family. Which means, as per the Asatru religion that she does not give her blessing on the marriage. It's also disrespectful because my family are partaking in about five rituals which are not part of our religions, and would suggest that my FMIL thinks herself above me and my family.
    But this isn't her religion!! That's what I keep driving at. It's not her religion to participate in. If she doesn't want to, that's has to be OK.

    It's wonderful that your family is partaking in five rituals that aren't part of their religions, it really is. But no one is making them (I hope) and their willingness to participate in those rituals doesn't confer upon your FMIL a need to participate in rituals that aren't part of her religion.

    I understand (or at least I'm inferring from what you're posting) that this aspect is very important to you and your mother, and I can appreciate that. But however important it is to you, clearly your FMIL isn't OK with it and doesn't want to participate.

    Unless she is straight-up saying, 'I don't support your marriage and you are not part of my family' (in which case, you have my sympathy and let me offer you wine; my husband's grandmother said to me on our wedding day, 'Just because you married him doesn't make you family, you know.'), you can't infer from her refusal to participate in a foreign religious ritual her disapproval of your marriage.
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  • @HisFridayGirl13 I know its not her religion, its not mine either. 

    You must understand this; the Asatru religion is widely believed to be utter nonsense. If you asked your average person if they knew what Asatru was, there's only about a 1% chance they'd know what it is. When you told them, they'd probably laugh. People actually think it's a joke. To say to someone who has had to deal with that their entire lives that you will not participate in one ritual of their religion when they have extended the same courtesy to you is disrespectful. She doesn't even have to do anything! She just has to stand their and have her hands tied!

    To say to them they should change it so they don't have to participate when they have already had to change it because their husband has died is massively insensitive. She's not dead, she just doesn't want to do it.
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  • @HisGirlFriday13 It's disrespectful because the ritual is about binding a family together. In refusing to take part in the ritual, she is essentially refusing to count herself as part of our family. Which means, as per the Asatru religion that she does not give her blessing on the marriage. It's also disrespectful because my family are partaking in about five rituals which are not part of our religions, and would suggest that my FMIL thinks herself above me and my family.
    To the first part of this: if she doesn't believe in the faith/ritual, then she doesn't agree that the ritual is significant in bonding together a family. In telling her that it's all or nothing, you ARE forcing her into it (if she knows that you want to partake in it), which is uncomfortable for anyone who doesn't share your beliefs. While it may mean in your religion that she doesn't give her blessing, she is showing through her faith rituals that she does. Deal with it.

    Also, you have not indicated that your family is being forced to participate in Hindu traditions -- I assume that this is being entered into willingly. If not, I'm sure FMIL would understand people not wanting to participate based on a difference in ideology.

    You're being a bridezilla and a pouting brat about this, and you and your mother both need to grow up and accept that not everything is going to go your way and not everyone will see things your way, and you need to be respectful of that. If your mother is a mature adult, she'll understand why FMIL doesn't want to partake.
    Except from she would throw a fit if my mother and I didn't participate in any of the ritual she and my FI believe in.
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  • @HisGirlFriday13 It's disrespectful because the ritual is about binding a family together. In refusing to take part in the ritual, she is essentially refusing to count herself as part of our family. Which means, as per the Asatru religion that she does not give her blessing on the marriage. It's also disrespectful because my family are partaking in about five rituals which are not part of our religions, and would suggest that my FMIL thinks herself above me and my family.
    To the first part of this: if she doesn't believe in the faith/ritual, then she doesn't agree that the ritual is significant in bonding together a family. In telling her that it's all or nothing, you ARE forcing her into it (if she knows that you want to partake in it), which is uncomfortable for anyone who doesn't share your beliefs. While it may mean in your religion that she doesn't give her blessing, she is showing through her faith rituals that she does. Deal with it.

    Also, you have not indicated that your family is being forced to participate in Hindu traditions -- I assume that this is being entered into willingly. If not, I'm sure FMIL would understand people not wanting to participate based on a difference in ideology.

    You're being a bridezilla and a pouting brat about this, and you and your mother both need to grow up and accept that not everything is going to go your way and not everyone will see things your way, and you need to be respectful of that. If your mother is a mature adult, she'll understand why FMIL doesn't want to partake.
    Except from she would throw a fit if my mother and I didn't participate in any of the ritual she and my FI believe in.
    Then let her throw a fit. I still don't see what the issue is, aside from adults acting like children.

    Either both are okay with participating in acts of each other's faith, or neither are. And you, as an adult, get to decide what you are and are not comfortable with personally.

    Everyone gets to make their own decision. You or either of the mothers do not get to decide what is acceptable for someone else to partake in when it comes to matters of faith.


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  • @HisGirlFriday13 It's disrespectful because the ritual is about binding a family together. In refusing to take part in the ritual, she is essentially refusing to count herself as part of our family. Which means, as per the Asatru religion that she does not give her blessing on the marriage. It's also disrespectful because my family are partaking in about five rituals which are not part of our religions, and would suggest that my FMIL thinks herself above me and my family.
    To the first part of this: if she doesn't believe in the faith/ritual, then she doesn't agree that the ritual is significant in bonding together a family. In telling her that it's all or nothing, you ARE forcing her into it (if she knows that you want to partake in it), which is uncomfortable for anyone who doesn't share your beliefs. While it may mean in your religion that she doesn't give her blessing, she is showing through her faith rituals that she does. Deal with it.

    Also, you have not indicated that your family is being forced to participate in Hindu traditions -- I assume that this is being entered into willingly. If not, I'm sure FMIL would understand people not wanting to participate based on a difference in ideology.

    You're being a bridezilla and a pouting brat about this, and you and your mother both need to grow up and accept that not everything is going to go your way and not everyone will see things your way, and you need to be respectful of that. If your mother is a mature adult, she'll understand why FMIL doesn't want to partake.
    Except from she would throw a fit if my mother and I didn't participate in any of the ritual she and my FI believe in.
    (a) In journalism, this is called burying the lede. Don't bury the lede; you won't get good advice if you don't.

    (b) In that case, give her an ultimatum -- if she wants your participation in her rituals, her participation in yours is non-optional. It's one thing to decline/refuse/be denied participation in rituals that aren't your faith (DH's grandmother is still, to the best of my knowledge, shirty about the fact we had a full Catholic Mass and she couldn't take communion). It's quite another to demand of people something you're not willing to do yourself.

    If your FMIL is demanding your participation, then you're within your rights to either decline or to bargain and demand her participation. 

    What does your FI think about all of this? It's her mother and her traditions, so she should be having your back in either declining your participation in the rituals that are not of your faith or telling her mother, 'Mom, tough shit if you don't like it. FI is participating in your rituals, you participate in hers. Or we do none of them. take your pick.'
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  • @HisGirlFriday13 It's disrespectful because the ritual is about binding a family together. In refusing to take part in the ritual, she is essentially refusing to count herself as part of our family. Which means, as per the Asatru religion that she does not give her blessing on the marriage. It's also disrespectful because my family are partaking in about five rituals which are not part of our religions, and would suggest that my FMIL thinks herself above me and my family.
    To the first part of this: if she doesn't believe in the faith/ritual, then she doesn't agree that the ritual is significant in bonding together a family. In telling her that it's all or nothing, you ARE forcing her into it (if she knows that you want to partake in it), which is uncomfortable for anyone who doesn't share your beliefs. While it may mean in your religion that she doesn't give her blessing, she is showing through her faith rituals that she does. Deal with it.

    Also, you have not indicated that your family is being forced to participate in Hindu traditions -- I assume that this is being entered into willingly. If not, I'm sure FMIL would understand people not wanting to participate based on a difference in ideology.

    You're being a bridezilla and a pouting brat about this, and you and your mother both need to grow up and accept that not everything is going to go your way and not everyone will see things your way, and you need to be respectful of that. If your mother is a mature adult, she'll understand why FMIL doesn't want to partake.
    Except from she would throw a fit if my mother and I didn't participate in any of the ritual she and my FI believe in.
    (a) In journalism, this is called burying the lede. Don't bury the lede; you won't get good advice if you don't.

    (b) In that case, give her an ultimatum -- if she wants your participation in her rituals, her participation in yours is non-optional. It's one thing to decline/refuse/be denied participation in rituals that aren't your faith (DH's grandmother is still, to the best of my knowledge, shirty about the fact we had a full Catholic Mass and she couldn't take communion). It's quite another to demand of people something you're not willing to do yourself.

    If your FMIL is demanding your participation, then you're within your rights to either decline or to bargain and demand her participation. 

    What does your FI think about all of this? It's her mother and her traditions, so she should be having your back in either declining your participation in the rituals that are not of your faith or telling her mother, 'Mom, tough shit if you don't like it. FI is participating in your rituals, you participate in hers. Or we do none of them. take your pick.'
    What I have bolded is what I have been trying to say the entire time.

    @pumpkinandturkey That's not what I was trying to do at all. What I am trying to say is that my mother had no choice but to change the ritual because my father died. The experience was horrible for my mother. What I was trying to say is she is choosing to make my mother do something that seriously upsets her because she does not want to do something.
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  • Again -- you should have led with that piece of information, about your mother agreeing to do her rituals.

    My advice stands -- give her an ultimatum, tell her you won't do her rituals if she doesn't do yours, and, again, WHERE THE HELL IS YOUR FI IN ALL OF THIS?? DH's grandmother may have been a first-class bitch during the wedding planning process, but he had my back 100% of the time, and was right there to tell her, 'You've over-stepped, so back off.'
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  • @HisGirlFriday13 It's disrespectful because the ritual is about binding a family together. In refusing to take part in the ritual, she is essentially refusing to count herself as part of our family. Which means, as per the Asatru religion that she does not give her blessing on the marriage. It's also disrespectful because my family are partaking in about five rituals which are not part of our religions, and would suggest that my FMIL thinks herself above me and my family.
    To the first part of this: if she doesn't believe in the faith/ritual, then she doesn't agree that the ritual is significant in bonding together a family. In telling her that it's all or nothing, you ARE forcing her into it (if she knows that you want to partake in it), which is uncomfortable for anyone who doesn't share your beliefs. While it may mean in your religion that she doesn't give her blessing, she is showing through her faith rituals that she does. Deal with it.

    Also, you have not indicated that your family is being forced to participate in Hindu traditions -- I assume that this is being entered into willingly. If not, I'm sure FMIL would understand people not wanting to participate based on a difference in ideology.

    You're being a bridezilla and a pouting brat about this, and you and your mother both need to grow up and accept that not everything is going to go your way and not everyone will see things your way, and you need to be respectful of that. If your mother is a mature adult, she'll understand why FMIL doesn't want to partake.
    Except from she would throw a fit if my mother and I didn't participate in any of the ritual she and my FI believe in.
    (a) In journalism, this is called burying the lede. Don't bury the lede; you won't get good advice if you don't.

    (b) In that case, give her an ultimatum -- if she wants your participation in her rituals, her participation in yours is non-optional. It's one thing to decline/refuse/be denied participation in rituals that aren't your faith (DH's grandmother is still, to the best of my knowledge, shirty about the fact we had a full Catholic Mass and she couldn't take communion). It's quite another to demand of people something you're not willing to do yourself.

    If your FMIL is demanding your participation, then you're within your rights to either decline or to bargain and demand her participation. 

    What does your FI think about all of this? It's her mother and her traditions, so she should be having your back in either declining your participation in the rituals that are not of your faith or telling her mother, 'Mom, tough shit if you don't like it. FI is participating in your rituals, you participate in hers. Or we do none of them. take your pick.'
    What I have bolded is what I have been trying to say the entire time.

    @pumpkinandturkey That's not what I was trying to do at all. What I am trying to say is that my mother had no choice but to change the ritual because my father died. The experience was horrible for my mother. What I was trying to say is she is choosing to make my mother do something that seriously upsets her because she does not want to do something.
    Actually, what you have said is that you told her she can either do it with you, or no one is doing it. That's rather unfair and a lot of undue pressure to put on her.

    On the one hand, she can participate and go against everything she believes (in her eyes). On the other hand, she can refuse to participate on religious grounds, and know that in doing so, she is 'preventing' everyone else from participating in the ritual.

    A fair ultimatum is to say, "You can either choose to participate as we are participating in your religious rituals; or you may respectfully decline, and we will likely do the same with regard to any Hindu rituals." You do not get to place the decision on her as to whether or not the ritual is done at all. If it could be modified on one side to accommodate a parent passing, it can likely be modified on the other side to exclude one parent (assuming FFIL wants to participate).

    Another option may be to find a ritual that involves only your mother blessing you and taking you and your FI into her life as a single unit and acknowledging your commitment to each other and becoming a family under that faith. I don't know the religion, but most faiths I've studied are able to accommodate something of this nature.


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  • Right okay, I see I badly worded most of this. Yes, the idea was that if she didn't do the ritual, I was not prepared to ask me mother to rework it - again - after it was such a painful experience for her the first time, and therefore she either did it, or it was not done. 

    What I actually wrote in the opening post after the first section as well as that was whether it was suitable to ask her to choose between being all the rituals she wanted to do, and my mothers, or we only do the two necessary rituals for a (at least partially) Hindu wedding to be complete, which FI says are a must. I hadn't noticed TK had cut that part off until just now, that's my fault.

    As far as I am aware, there is no ritual other than in Odinism that is about only one set of parents blessing the wedding couple. But that would be like a Protestant doing a Catholic ritual, so it's not really an option. I'll have to check with my mother, but i'm 99% sure there isn't one. I probably should have checked that first.

    P.S. I have no idea why this is all underlined, but I can't get the underline off.
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  • I read this post twice and I wasn't going to comment, but it is really bothering me. I am not a religious person. FI is Catholic. I go to church with him because he asks me too. He tries to get me to participate in Catholic rituals like repeating prayers and doing the sign of the cross. I refuse to do it not to be disrespectful to him but because I feel it is disrespectful to a religion that I don't practice. If I had a religion of my own I would especially not do it because I would feel it was disrespectful to his religion and to mine. Religion is a very personal thing and if you're FMIL is uncomfortable participating in a religious ritual that is not her own then I think you need to let it go. If you force her to do it or guilt her into it she is going to resent you for a long time. If you cut out the ritual completely because of her then you are going to make her feel guilty. Either of these scenarios is not a good way to start a new family with your FIL's.
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  • I read this post twice and I wasn't going to comment, but it is really bothering me. I am not a religious person. FI is Catholic. I go to church with him because he asks me too. He tries to get me to participate in Catholic rituals like repeating prayers and doing the sign of the cross. I refuse to do it not to be disrespectful to him but because I feel it is disrespectful to a religion that I don't practice. If I had a religion of my own I would especially not do it because I would feel it was disrespectful to his religion and to mine. Religion is a very personal thing and if you're FMIL is uncomfortable participating in a religious ritual that is not her own then I think you need to let it go. If you force her to do it or guilt her into it she is going to resent you for a long time. If you cut out the ritual completely because of her then you are going to make her feel guilty. Either of these scenarios is not a good way to start a new family with your FIL's.
    I understand why you feel that way. That is not how my FMIL feels, FI asked her. My problem was that she was the odd one out - literally everyone else in both the families and the wedding party were participating in rituals that were not part of their religion (or in some cases, lack of religion). And that everybody else was forced (by her) to participate in Hindu rituals whilst more than half of these people were not Hindu, but she would not do the same. 
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  • emmyg65emmyg65
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    I really disagree with giving her an ultimatum. These rituals aren't tit for tat. 

    If you want to do the Hindu rituals, for whatever reason, then do them. If you don't feel comfortable doing them, then don't.

    If your FMIL doesn't feel comfortable doing the Asatru ritual, then there's not really anything you can do to force the ritual. I understand that you view this as disrespectful to your mother, but you just can't force it. Also, just because she doesn't want to do the ritual, doesn't mean she doesn't approve of you becoming one family. She's just choosing to recognize that in her own way. If your mom can't accept that, that's on her.

    tl;dr: You can't force grown adults to do things, religious rituals or otherwise.
    MairePoppyJen4948PrettyGirlLostJen&Mike8
  • Are any of these religious rituals something that you and your partner want to do or are you just doing them to please your families?  I think you and your partner should decide which rituals mean something to the both of you and do those.  All other rituals should be thrown out.  This ceremony is about you and your partner committing your lives to each other.  You are not committing your lives to each others families or Mothers.
    pumpkinsandturkeyshuskypuppy14PrettyGirlLost
  • I read this post twice and I wasn't going to comment, but it is really bothering me. I am not a religious person. FI is Catholic. I go to church with him because he asks me too. He tries to get me to participate in Catholic rituals like repeating prayers and doing the sign of the cross. I refuse to do it not to be disrespectful to him but because I feel it is disrespectful to a religion that I don't practice. If I had a religion of my own I would especially not do it because I would feel it was disrespectful to his religion and to mine. Religion is a very personal thing and if you're FMIL is uncomfortable participating in a religious ritual that is not her own then I think you need to let it go. If you force her to do it or guilt her into it she is going to resent you for a long time. If you cut out the ritual completely because of her then you are going to make her feel guilty. Either of these scenarios is not a good way to start a new family with your FIL's.
    I understand why you feel that way. That is not how my FMIL feels, FI asked her. My problem was that she was the odd one out - literally everyone else in both the families and the wedding party were participating in rituals that were not part of their religion (or in some cases, lack of religion). And that everybody else was forced (by her) to participate in Hindu rituals whilst more than half of these people were not Hindu, but she would not do the same. 
    If your FI asked her that then what was the reason that she gave for not wanting to do the ritual?
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  • Jen4948Jen4948
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    edited March 19
    My mother is an Asatru Shaman, my siblings are Asatru, I am a Pantheist and FI and her family are all Hindu. My mother has asked FI and I if we can perform a Asatru ritual at some point in the day (it's a ritual that only involves the wedding couple and immediate family, so it won't be during the ceremony) which FI and I have zero problems with, seeing as it is the religion I was brought up with and it's really important to my mother. We told FIs family about it and on the whole they were absolutely fine with it, until FI's mother found out that she had to be in the ritual. And now she says she's not coming to the wedding if she has to perform the ritual (which both FI and I think is bullshit), but all the same, we want her to be at least okay with having to do the ritual. I'm doing Hindu rituals that I don't believe in, but its really important to FI, so I'm quite happy to do them. My mother is paying for some of the wedding, I can't just turn around and say 'no, you can't have a ritual that's really important to you that we've already said is fine'. And we are just kind of lost with what to do.
    Regardless of how much your mother is contributing financially, I think you and she need to let this one go and stop seeing it as "disrespectful" if your FMIL does not participate.  While I agree that threatening to boycott your wedding is bullshit, your FMIL is not going to be "happy" about "having to" perform this ritual, and trying to force her to is disrespectful to her.

    In fact, it is disrespectful to insist that a nonbeliever (or anyone, really) participate in a ritual who does not want to, and it is disrespectful for a nonbeliever to the other religious faith to participate in a religious ritual that they do not believe in. 
    PrettyGirlLost
  • I see no reason why you can't just adapt the ceremony. Although, the only thing that I can find about hand tying only involves the bride and groom. So what I'm imagining (correct me if I'm wrong) is you both and your immediate families having your hands tied together. If all any participant has to do is have their hands tied, I don't see how you can't just have the ones who want to participate have their hands tied. I'm not trying to disrespect your mother's beliefs, I'm just confused about why can't you just modify it.
  • I read this post twice and I wasn't going to comment, but it is really bothering me. I am not a religious person. FI is Catholic. I go to church with him because he asks me too. He tries to get me to participate in Catholic rituals like repeating prayers and doing the sign of the cross. I refuse to do it not to be disrespectful to him but because I feel it is disrespectful to a religion that I don't practice. If I had a religion of my own I would especially not do it because I would feel it was disrespectful to his religion and to mine. Religion is a very personal thing and if you're FMIL is uncomfortable participating in a religious ritual that is not her own then I think you need to let it go. If you force her to do it or guilt her into it she is going to resent you for a long time. If you cut out the ritual completely because of her then you are going to make her feel guilty. Either of these scenarios is not a good way to start a new family with your FIL's.
    I understand why you feel that way. That is not how my FMIL feels, FI asked her. My problem was that she was the odd one out - literally everyone else in both the families and the wedding party were participating in rituals that were not part of their religion (or in some cases, lack of religion). And that everybody else was forced (by her) to participate in Hindu rituals whilst more than half of these people were not Hindu, but she would not do the same. 
    If your FI asked her that then what was the reason that she gave for not wanting to do the ritual?
    She just said she didn't want to. No reason. FI tried asking her again, and she just avoided the question.
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  • Jen4948 said:
    My mother is an Asatru Shaman, my siblings are Asatru, I am a Pantheist and FI and her family are all Hindu. My mother has asked FI and I if we can perform a Asatru ritual at some point in the day (it's a ritual that only involves the wedding couple and immediate family, so it won't be during the ceremony) which FI and I have zero problems with, seeing as it is the religion I was brought up with and it's really important to my mother. We told FIs family about it and on the whole they were absolutely fine with it, until FI's mother found out that she had to be in the ritual. And now she says she's not coming to the wedding if she has to perform the ritual (which both FI and I think is bullshit), but all the same, we want her to be at least okay with having to do the ritual. I'm doing Hindu rituals that I don't believe in, but its really important to FI, so I'm quite happy to do them. My mother is paying for some of the wedding, I can't just turn around and say 'no, you can't have a ritual that's really important to you that we've already said is fine'. And we are just kind of lost with what to do.
    Regardless of how much your mother is contributing financially, I think you and she need to let this one go and stop seeing it as "disrespectful" if your FMIL does not participate.  While I agree that threatening to boycott your wedding is bullshit, your FMIL is not going to be "happy" about "having to" perform this ritual, and trying to force her to is disrespectful to her.

    In fact, it is disrespectful to insist that a nonbeliever (or anyone, really) participate in a ritual who does not want to, and it is disrespectful for a nonbeliever to the other religious faith to participate in a religious ritual that they do not believe in. 
    Maybe that would be the case in a lot of situations. But do you know how difficult it would be to have a Hindu wedding (and it is mainly a Hindu wedding), where I couldn't perform any of the rituals? Do you know how many people everyday swear to gods they don't believe in when they get married?
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