Palladium/WG E-ring questions

AuroraRose41

Hi Ladies! My BF and I have been ring shopping lately (YAY!), and it seems the more we find out about different metal options, the more questions we have. I work mostly a desk job, but also do spend some time in a lab with large machinery, and a ring might get scratched in that environment pretty easily. I prefer very low maintenance jewelry, and through research started hearing about Palladium. However, it seems most jewelers in the area that we live in (San Diego region) don't work with that metal. So, I am reconsidering White Gold, but I do not want to have to have it dipped too often. I also saw that Palladium is used in White Gold as an alloy sometimes, but can't seem to figure out how to tell the difference between a Palladium White Gold ring and a White Gold ring made with another alloy. The BF and I are also not ruling out Platinum or any other metal options, but I would prefer a white/silver/gray color. I have seen many contradictory statements online, so I am hoping someone with experience can answer my questions. So, here goes:

1) Will Platinum or Palladium scratch easily? If they do scratch easily, does the metal chip and eventually thin out due to repolishing?

2) How can we tell if a White Gold ring is made with a Palladium alloy, apart from just taking the word of the jeweler?

3) What are all of your opinions? Platinum vs Palladium vs White Gold/Palladium alloy?

4) Does anyone have any recommendations for jewellers in Southern California, especially ones who work with Palladium? (I will also scour the local board for this info)

 

Also, please let me know if there is a better board for this post. Thanks!

Swazzle

I am not going to be much help as I don't know anything about palladium but my ring is white gold. I've worn it every single day (I literally never take it off) for 2 years and 8 months and it still looks as it did the day H proposed. Meaning, it hasn't needed to be dipped, yet. Just wanted to throw that out there from my personal experience!

AuroraRose41

@Swazzle it is still very useful information for me to have (and then proceed to tell BF). Thanks! Do you happen to know what alloy was used to make it white gold?  

artbyallie

I don't know about a palladium-gold alloy, but I do work for a jeweler, so hopefully I can offer some information.

For one, we do work in both platinum and palladium as well as low-nickel white gold, so I'm sure you can find a jeweler who can do it. My store can't cast platinum-group metals (including palladium) on-site but we can send the wax model we produce to a casting house and polish and set the piece once it comes back from them.

Rhodium-plating (the 'dipping' done to white gold) and how often it is needed is hugely dependent on individual body chemistry. Some women need rhodium every 6 months. Some women can go a year, or two, or five. My mom has had hers done once in 30 years of marriage. I'm going on my third anniversary and only have a bit of yellow showing through on the undersides of my rings.

Platinum is very dense, very scratch-resistant, and very strong. When it does scratch, the metal is displaced rather than removed so it does not lose metal (or at any rate much less than gold) when it is polished. It does darken over the years, but always polishes back up perfectly, and also happens to be hypoallergenic. It is roughly 4-5 times the cost of 14 karat gold, in terms of an identical piece made in both metals.

Palladium is related to platinum but not quite as tough. Even so, it is a great metal but my concern would be if you ever move away from whatever jeweler you find to make/work on it, that you would have a hard time finding a new one. We don't even keep palladium stock, to my knowledge, whereas our bench jeweler loves working with platinum and almost always has appropriate material to size/repair platinum jewelry. Palladium is only a little pricier than gold.

White gold is an alloy of gold, which is of course naturally yellow, and other metals, traditionally heavy on nickel to get the white color. But some people are allergic to nickel. Other alloys exist and will vary from one jeweler to the next depending on what they like to work with. As I said, we do low-nickel. White gold is almost always plated in another platinum-group metal, rhodium, to achieve a brighter white color. Most jewelers will re-apply this plating for a small fee per piece. Gold is a very soft metal and thus more prone to scratching/wearing/thinning depending on how much of it is in the alloy. 18k is 75% pure and therefore softest. 14k is the most common for bridal jewelry and is 58.5% pure, fairly good for everyday wear. 10k is the strongest and lowest percentage sellable as 'gold' in the U.S. at 41.7% pure.

artbyallie

Oh, also! My engagement ring came from this jeweler, who is based in San Diego and I believe they work in palladium and platinum as well as gold:

https://www.etsy.com/shop/mastergoldcraft?ref=l2-shopheader-name

Swazzle

AuroraRose41 said:

@Swazzle it is still very useful information for me to have (and then proceed to tell BF). Thanks! Do you happen to know what alloy was used to make it white gold?  

Sorry, I have no idea. 

Blue & White

I have a platinum ring that is almost 100 years old and it's still silver in color. Just so you know.

I also beat the crap out of my hands and only have minor scratches on platinum or white gold rings. I also don't beat myself up about the scratches FI has little scratches in his palladium ring in a week of wear sooo we are obviously not gentle. As long as there aren't gaping holes were good

Dignity100

My ring is considered '18k Palladium Gold'.  I am allergic to nickel which is used as a common alloy for white gold.  My ring is still plated like most WG.

I worked with the designer of my ring to find a suitable metal for me and it was actually really educational.  What he told me was that Palladium is pretty soft and many designers don't want to work with the metal because it can be a little tricky to work with and they cannot guarantee it as well.  That being said, I haven't heard of any people having too much of a problem with palladium. He then told me he could do the Palladium/Gold mix instead of nickel/gold mix.

As far as cost - Palladium will usually fall in between 10K WG and 14k WG.  My ring fell in between the price of Platinum and 18K WG (as Palladium is more expensive than nickel).

1)  Platinum, Palladium, and WG will all show scratches.  If I remember correct - Platinum and Palladium will need to be polished because it will lose it's luster as WG will need to be re-dipped every so often.

2)  I would imagine when you have it appraised by a different jeweler they will be able to tell you.  Nickel is the most commonly used.  When you have an allergy, most jewelers will try to upsell you to platinum.  I trusted my jeweler and did explain my allergy to them.  I've had my ring since Dec and have yet to break out in an itchy rash.

3)  I went with the White Gold/Palladium mix.  I felt it was the best of all worlds for me.  IF I did not have a nickel allergy, I would have went with 14k WG.

4)  Never even been to California, so no help there.  I'm not sure what your price range is, but you can always look up designers of rings - they will cost more because you're paying for a 'name' and see who will work with the different alloys and go from there. 

Please note - I'm doing this all from memory and I could be wrong.

KeptInStitches

Around here, most jewelry designers only work with gold for resizing. It made my white gold decision very easy - I'm concerned about being able to resize it. Sorry I can't be more helpful!

phira

Mine's 10k white gold. It's holding up very nicely after almost a year, although the filigree isn't as shiny. I'm planning on having it cleaned and possibly re-dipped right before the wedding. I'm very happy with my decision.

loves2shop4shoes

FWIW, my e-ring and wedding band are both 18k white gold.  I do not take them off, not even to sleep or shower.  And I've been wearing my e-ring since August 2010 and my wedding band since August 2012.  I have not yet had to get either ring dipped.

My cousin's ring is platinum, and although it keeps its color well, it does show scratches.

AuroraRose41

Thank you all so much for the input! I definitely have a lot to consider. Oh, and BF is very traditional, so he won't let me pick out the final thing, and won't let me know what he is going to spend on it. He was lost as to what I would want though, so we have been browsing so that I could give him a few options. But, I have been trying to pick out rings under $5k for everything, because any higher is money that I would rather put toward the wedding or our future house. It's also right about where he could just go buy it outright one day and not have to make payments, nor spend all of his savings on it.

FWIW, I like the look of approx. 1CT solitare with either pave or channel set small diamonds on the band. I am also practical and don't need a designer name or a specific metal, but I like the look of something like this:

AuroraRose41

@Dignity100, Do you mind if I ask who the designer is? I have not been having much luck finding that information online, and there are multiple designers that I like, but any designer with a ring similar to the one above will do. I don't have an allergy, but I did see online that the WG/Palladium mix still looks silvery/gray without needing the rhodium plating, so I was thinking that if the rhodium did wear off, it wouldn't look as yellow as with other alloys.

Here is the picture I found online that illustrates this. The first is 18K Yellow Gold, the second is 18K Rhodium Plated White Gold (doesn't specify the alloy), and the third is 18K White Gold with Palladium alloy, unplated.
 

Dignity100

@AuroraRose41 - My ring is a Mark Schneider:  http://www.markschneiderdesign.com/
He was doing a trunk show at a store near me, so I got to meet him and talk to him.  His staff is extremely helpful as well.  All e-rings on his website are WITHOUT the center stone.

If an alloy is not listed and you live in USA; you can pretty much assume that it's a nickel alloy.  Nickel is a cheap alloy and does a good job of making the gold not as pliable.

My ring looks like #2 in the picture you posted because it is plated.  I thought about asking them not to plate because I do like the 'warm' look of #3. 

I do have a few scratches on my ring (I'm rough on my hands) and will have it polished (maybe re-plated) before I get married..  More than likely the plating will not wear off evenly.  Most people do not need to re-plate all that often and the cost is not that expensive.

artbyallie

AuroraRose41 said:

Thank you all so much for the input! I definitely have a lot to consider. Oh, and BF is very traditional, so he won't let me pick out the final thing, and won't let me know what he is going to spend on it. He was lost as to what I would want though, so we have been browsing so that I could give him a few options. But, I have been trying to pick out rings under $5k for everything, because any higher is money that I would rather put toward the wedding or our future house. It's also right about where he could just go buy it outright one day and not have to make payments, nor spend all of his savings on it.

FWIW, I like the look of approx. 1CT solitare with either pave or channel set small diamonds on the band. I am also practical and don't need a designer name or a specific metal, but I like the look of something like this:

You're not going to get a 1ct center stone for under $5k unless it's of questionable quality, just to put that out there. 3/4ct, possibly. Though neither of them would be likely to be under 5 grand in platinum. And really, if we're talking rounds, there's going to be a few tenths of a millimeter difference in the diameter between 1ct and 3/4.

I'm not trying to criticize, just letting you know that if he goes to a jeweler looking for a 1ct diamond, he's going to spend more than you're thinking you'd like him to. A diamond that size in the price range you are comfortable with can be found but is not going to look great, realistically speaking.

phira

Yeah, my stone, which is an ethically sourced sapphire (less expensive than a diamond) was $300 for about a third of a ct. The way we had it set makes it look much bigger than it is. I could imagine a diamond of similar quality being at least twice as much. Then again, I know shit about diamonds.

AuroraRose41

@artbyallie, I tried on rings that fit my description that had 1 CT center stones with decent cut (ideal and better), color (H or better), and clarity (VS1 and better) that were $3k, and that included the wedding band in addition to the e-ring.  We also looked at loose diamonds that fit what I wanted that were about $2k each. Is there another quality point to look for that I am missing?

Also, I did say approx. 1CT, and 3/4 would probably be fine. It doesn't need to be exactly 1 CT, but I like the size of a diamond in about that range.  

Swazzle

AuroraRose41 said:

Thank you all so much for the input! I definitely have a lot to consider. Oh, and BF is very traditional, so he won't let me pick out the final thing, and won't let me know what he is going to spend on it. He was lost as to what I would want though, so we have been browsing so that I could give him a few options. But, I have been trying to pick out rings under $5k for everything, because any higher is money that I would rather put toward the wedding or our future house. It's also right about where he could just go buy it outright one day and not have to make payments, nor spend all of his savings on it.

FWIW, I like the look of approx. 1CT solitare with either pave or channel set small diamonds on the band. I am also practical and don't need a designer name or a specific metal, but I like the look of something like this:

You're not going to get a 1ct center stone for under $5k unless it's of questionable quality, just to put that out there. 3/4ct, possibly. Though neither of them would be likely to be under 5 grand in platinum. And really, if we're talking rounds, there's going to be a few tenths of a millimeter difference in the diameter between 1ct and 3/4.

I'm not trying to criticize, just letting you know that if he goes to a jeweler looking for a 1ct diamond, he's going to spend more than you're thinking you'd like him to. A diamond that size in the price range you are comfortable with can be found but is not going to look great, realistically speaking.

Meh, my diamond is 1.01ct and great quality and my H did not spend $5k. 

Swazzle

TwoDimes said:

OMG where are you guys shopping?! Everything I've looked at in a brick and mortar store, a 1CT stone of good/great quality is between $8k and $10k. Unless the stones aren't certified (by GIA or AGS or something)?

I've seen loose stones online (ex. Blue Nile) for that size/quality in the price range of $3k-$5k, but never at a brick and mortar store.

My stone is certified. H got my e-ring from a diamond exchange place here in NJ.

artbyallie

TwoDimes said:

OMG where are you guys shopping?! Everything I've looked at in a brick and mortar store, a 1CT stone of good/great quality is between $8k and $10k. Unless the stones aren't certified (by GIA or AGS or something)?

I've seen loose stones online (ex. Blue Nile) for that size/quality in the price range of $3k-$5k, but never at a brick and mortar store.

This is what has me baffled. A well-cut VS 1ct does go for 8-10 grand. I would expect a $2-3k 1ct diamond to be I1 clarity at best. Color doesn't have a huge impact on price IME. Something is super fishy here if someone is claiming to sell you that size and quality for that price. I'm also wondering about the cert. GIA is like the diamond bible; EGL tends to grade, shall we say, on a curve. And if the ones you're looking at are not certified, then who is it that's grading them as VS1?

@AuroraRose41, I'm concerned that someone is trying to pull the wool over your eyes here, because I'm fairly certain my store could not buy that kind of stone wholesale for $3000 and we are known for quality.

Swazzle

Yup, my diamond is actually fake. H got it from a gumball machine and I just like to pretend. We got the certification on the black market. 

:::eyeroll:::

Dignity100

@AuroraRose41 - Are you looking at 5K JUST for the e-ring or for a set?

I will say, my diamond is not GIA rated (which at first I was a little uneasy about).  The rating my diamond received (not from GIA) was:  Color: G; Cut:  Ideal <Hearts & Arrows>; Clarity S1 <there are visible inclusions but the cut hides them quite well>; Carat: .93 -- I did get to see the Hearts and Arrows under the scope thing.

I was between this diamond and one that was:  Color G; Cut: Very Good; Clarity VVS2; Carat: .81 - I felt my diamond faced up better than the .81 even though it does have inclusions.

The prices on the James Allen site for loose diamonds are very comparable to what the cost of my diamond was.

The first store I was dealing with; they wanted to sell me a Color:  I, Cut:  Good, Clarity: VVS2, Carat .71 for much more than I paid for my diamond - it was however GIA rated.

That being said, you need to feel comfortable with what you're buying.  I have thought about having my diamond certified, but in all reality I like the diamond and I'm happy with it and I like the way it faces.  As far as inclusions - it has 2 crystals (together) that are slightly off center and it has a feather that I was able to have set under one of the prongs (so you cannot see it).  In all honesty most people probably wouldn't notice them unless they are really really examining my diamond or I point them out. 


As Far As Metals Go:
Palladium - Will cost in the same range as 14K WG (with a nickel alloy).

18K Palladium WG - Will cost somewhere between 18K WG and Platinum (but will be closer to the WG price)

I will state again - If I was NOT allergic to nickel, I would have went with 14K (or maybe even 10K). 

buddysmom80

artbyallie said:

TwoDimes said:

OMG where are you guys shopping?! Everything I've looked at in a brick and mortar store, a 1CT stone of good/great quality is between $8k and $10k. Unless the stones aren't certified (by GIA or AGS or something)?

I've seen loose stones online (ex. Blue Nile) for that size/quality in the price range of $3k-$5k, but never at a brick and mortar store.

This is what has me baffled. A well-cut VS 1ct does go for 8-10 grand. I would expect a $2-3k 1ct diamond to be I1 clarity at best. Color doesn't have a huge impact on price IME. Something is super fishy here if someone is claiming to sell you that size and quality for that price. I'm also wondering about the cert. GIA is like the diamond bible; EGL tends to grade, shall we say, on a curve. And if the ones you're looking at are not certified, then who is it that's grading them as VS1?

@AuroraRose41, I'm concerned that someone is trying to pull the wool over your eyes here, because I'm fairly certain my store could not buy that kind of stone wholesale for $3000 and we are known for quality.

@artbyallie actually, yes you can get a 1 carat stone for < $5000. It's knowing where to shop, what to look for, and how to negotiate. I'm just going to leave this right here for all the nay-sayers, it's a link to a 1 carat, ascher cut, GIA cert, G-color, VS2 diamond:

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/12061/

Dignity100

buddysmom80 said:

artbyallie said:

TwoDimes said:

OMG where are you guys shopping?! Everything I've looked at in a brick and mortar store, a 1CT stone of good/great quality is between $8k and $10k. Unless the stones aren't certified (by GIA or AGS or something)?

I've seen loose stones online (ex. Blue Nile) for that size/quality in the price range of $3k-$5k, but never at a brick and mortar store.

This is what has me baffled. A well-cut VS 1ct does go for 8-10 grand. I would expect a $2-3k 1ct diamond to be I1 clarity at best. Color doesn't have a huge impact on price IME. Something is super fishy here if someone is claiming to sell you that size and quality for that price. I'm also wondering about the cert. GIA is like the diamond bible; EGL tends to grade, shall we say, on a curve. And if the ones you're looking at are not certified, then who is it that's grading them as VS1?

@AuroraRose41, I'm concerned that someone is trying to pull the wool over your eyes here, because I'm fairly certain my store could not buy that kind of stone wholesale for $3000 and we are known for quality.

@artbyallie actually, yes you can get a 1 carat stone for < $5000. It's knowing where to shop, what to look for, and how to negotiate. I'm just going to leave this right here for all the nay-sayers, it's a link to a 1 carat, ascher cut, GIA cert, G-color, VS2 diamond:

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/12061/

Round will be harder to find, but the OP said she was willing to take under 1 carat (I'm not sure if she specified a shape).  On that same note - here's a .90 carot; I-SI1; Excellent Cut; Round; GIA rated for <$4000 which then gives wiggle room to get the actual ring: 
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.90-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-272054

GoldenPenguin

Swazzle said:

Yup, my diamond is actually fake. H got it from a gumball machine and I just like to pretend. We got the certification on the black market. 

:::eyeroll:::

No WONDER your e-ring is so ugly, @swazzle!! You've been duping us for years!! 

AuroraRose41

We were looking at our local Ben Bridge store, and another very well known family jeweler in the area. All were GIA certified, included the center stone and the setting with approx. 0.2 CT of diamonds on the side. Does any of this maybe depend on location? Here is one that I also tried on (BF likes solitare, and I don't mind it either):

http://www.benbridge.com/shop/Diamond-Solitaire-Ring-14K-1-ct.-10997385.html

Swazzle

@TwoDimes - My response wasn't really directed at you. 

artbyallie

AuroraRose41 said:

We were looking at our local Ben Bridge store, and another very well known family jeweler in the area. All were GIA certified, included the center stone and the setting with approx. 0.2 CT of diamonds on the side. Does any of this maybe depend on location? Here is one that I also tried on (BF likes solitare, and I don't mind it either):

http://www.benbridge.com/shop/Diamond-Solitaire-Ring-14K-1-ct.-10997385.html

This link doesn't say anything about quality/grade. Is Ben Bridge a chain? I've not heard of them before. I mean, at the end of the day, if you like the diamond and you're going to be happy with it, that's really all that matters. A lot of people (myself included, really, even after nearly a year of looking at diamonds every day at work) can't really tell if a stone is, say, in the SI or the VS category. At this point I'm just wondering what the secret is that the places linked (though the Asscher is not really comparable because there is very low demand for that cut) can get and sell diamonds for that price.

AuroraRose41

@artbyallie Ben Bridge is a local SoCal chain, and even though this link does not say much, the salesperson assured us that the one I was trying on was GIA certified and of decent quality in terms of cut, color, and clarity.  And honestly, I really don't mind having one that is sub par quality as long as it still looks like a diamond, i.e. has no visible discoloration/inclusions/poor cut to the naked eye. You mentioned that most people can't tell the difference between the SI or VS categories of clarity; what is the lowest quality that you could go with cut and color and still not tell the difference with the naked eye?

I really do appreciate all of the information.

BreMR

I can't remember the grading system too much, but when my bf and I went ring shopping he said he wanted at least 1 carat, little to no inclusions, and little color... and there were quite a few under 5,000 with his expectations.  This was at ShaneCo, which is a chain..

artbyallie

@AuroraRose41, it really depends on the individual since some some people can discern color more than others and of course people have different visual acuity. However, I can give a basic rundown for most people.

G-H will look basically colorless when set in a piece of jewelry. Many people won't immediately notice a tint in a diamond of I-J color either. If you go with yellow gold, you can go as far as, say, L because the gold will blend with the yellow/brown tint of the diamond.

Clarity is an interesting one because it's graded based on a 10x magnified view of the diamond. So only I1 and lower (and possibly some SI2-3 if the inclusions are minor and easily hidden by prongs) will have characteristics visible without that magnification. I would choose at least SI1 if I were selecting a diamond (though I have a lab sapphire, for the record).

Cut is really the biggest impact on price, but also the most important in terms of the light qualities of the stone: brilliance, fire, and sparkle. You don't want a stone that's too deep or shallow for its diameter. I would say at minimum a Good cut. You don't have to go the Ideal and/or Hearts and Arrows (which is an ideal style of cut but not every well-cut diamond displays them) route, but they do take the best advantage of the natural properties of a diamond. And you are going for a round, which is what I would generally recommend anyway, since the round brilliant style is optimized for diamond. I love fancy shapes, but the fact remains that they just don't shine quite as much, particularly step cuts like the Asscher or emerald.