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We are adulterers so brother dropped out of wedding!

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Re: We are adulterers so brother dropped out of wedding!

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    photokittyphotokitty mod
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    Annndreaaaaa said:
    Just came across this somewhat relevant article: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-told-divorced-and-remarried-woman-there-is-nothing-wrong-with-her-taking-communion-italian-newspaper-says-9278320.html

    Maybe you should show him

    Thanks for sharing this, it literally brought tears to my eyes. =) I opted not to remarry in the church, despite being allowed to bc of my annulment bc  based on the grounds for annulment I knew in my heart I could not "enter into a sacramental marriage" by the church's standards. I have not been to mass since, even though my priest told me he would give me communion bc I "can's be out side the sacrament," when I pushed him bc I knew I was not allowed to receive communion based on Catholic church law he said "the laws are cruel and I know you, and you can't be outside the sacrament." I have not been to mass since my wedding bc I just can't knowingly break cannon law on this one.

    I hope Pope Francis makes a public statement on this matter and this article gives me hope that I might have the choice to return to the sacrament with knowing in my heart I am not welcome.
    :kiss: ~xoxo~ :kiss:

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    PrettyGirlLostPrettyGirlLost member
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    LAM524 said:
    thanks everyone, really! Sometimes being so close to the bull, Im not sure if Im just over reacting from the "kick!"  Its 2:45 am, can't sleep for obvious reason. Ive done lots of praying, thinking and crying. Then I start the cycle all again. I really cant figure why Im so hurt. Really there is no anger, not as of yet, (but I often experience delayed emotions). How could I be angry with someone who really does believe what he, himself has decided to live by? So I must respect it! I know this brother really doesnt mean to hurt me/us. But still, I am deeply saddened/hurt.
    I guess because his decision (no matter what it is based on) equates to what I can only conclude is not loving me "enough" the "right" way. The way I need it. *selfish maybe* :/

    Here is are my thoughts right now. (I figure if I get them out of my head and organized, maybe I can get some sleep. To me, the angle in which he would witness the ceremony, whether it be standing up with us or sitting as a guest in front of us, makes no difference. EVERYONE in attendance is a witness!! Also, the ceremony has a "declaration of support from friends and family" (did I mention that he said he won't "object" during the ceremony?) Reasonably concluding, because he is not supportive enough to be a groomsman, how could he receive the charge of "family support for the marriage/couple?" So sitting or standing, he'd be a witness and he wont receive/agree with the declaration of support therefore in honoring HIS convictions, its best that we advice him not attend ceremony.

    As far as reception, its a celebration! Simple: he can not celebrate something he doesnt agree with. In total, its best he does not attend at all. Besides, I dont want to look at his face just to be reminded of his judgement/condemnation.

    As far as life beyond our wedding, how could I ever invite him into my "marital" home?  These 2 scriptures are what he showed me and are the bases for his decison: Psalms 50:18 (" ...When you see a thief, you join with him; you throw in your lot with adulterers) and 1 Cor 6:9 (Don't you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality..." If he "throws in" with us being that we are adulterers, he is an adulterer, therefore he also is not going to heaven.

    He said he doesnt want to fragment our relations BUT (based on these scriptures) how could we even so much as invite him over for dinner? Never mind even the slightest association. He will be "throwing in" with us! Based on his own convictions, he CAN NOT! Right? So for him to say he doesnt want this to fragment us, he is selectively "walking" a Christian life!! To me, his decision has to be all or nothing so not to be a hypocrite. Yes? He cant take some scripture , judge us to a point that he also could go to hell if he is IN the wedding (guilt by association), pull out and not live the rest of his life by the other scripture pertaining to "adulterers!" He can not associate with us! If I "respect" his convictions and decision, then I am to disassociate. Technically, he is the one who should disassociate but I dont like helping people be hypocrites!

    And unless my reasoning is off the wall, and I am hoping you will advice, this is what I will put forth to him! And tell him that I will love him from a distance (a safe one) and pray for him. BTW...my fiance is processing this all the same way.

    Sorry if these scriptures offend anyone, it is not my intent, at all!  I have only posted them to explain where my thoughts are coming from and do not mean to cause any harm or debate.



    Attending or not attending your wedding, coming to dinner with you- those are all decisions your brother needs to make for himself, not you.

    It's not your job or duty to make sure he follows this strict and limited interpretation of the bible and Christianity, that's all on him.  I wouldn't exclude my brother from my wedding or cut off all ties with him just because he is a fundamentalist and is acting like an ass.  His beliefs and any hypocrisy that may arise from actions that differ from those beliefs are between his God and himself, not you and him.

    I'd let him decide what he wants to do, and I would just ignore his preaching.  I ignore a lot of religious views that I don't agree with or that I find offensive, though.

    However, if he has just really pissed you off and hurt and offended you to the point that you don't want him there on your wedding day, well that is a different matter.  Don't invite him then, but don't use his fundamentalism as the justification behind that decision.

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


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    LAM524LAM524 member
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    @hisgirlfriday13...thank you very much for recognizing and highlighting to me, the I am exhibiting a difference between respect and acceptance. Maybe my sadness has much to do with the fact that I know I have to accept his convictions out of respect. A difficult thing being that I can not and do not feel we are adulterers and its honestly disgusting and insulting. Can you imagine being viewed this way by a sibling?  I dont know if I could ever accept this and have a healthy relationship with him. (ut oh, think anger is setting in) What will totally SUCK is if he changes his mind after the wedding! That would probably hurt more because the damage was done!

    I am trying to prepare myself to talk to him. I am not a biblical scholar! By far! He...eats, sleeps, and breathes scripture. I know nobody who can recite scripture like he can. So I think he may throw things at me that leave me with my usual, very sincere belief. What about the "heart" and "love" and "grace" and "mercy"...all basic things that God has gifted us with up on the cross. Scripture...I respect, and take as truth but when there seems to be things left to question (scripture) seemingly contradictory and I am left to figure it out/ decide what it all means, I tend to side with what would amount to be grace and not punishment. Boy, I really think the "evil one" is fully attacking us here! Anyway, the sooner I put closer on this, the better. I have to protect my heart and life....and reclaim my joy. It's my life, my journey, my relationship with God. I will stand alone on judgement day. I have to believe and depend on God knowing me, my heart, my motives and my desires. When I check myself, and I do, if my motives are pure, then I am living the best way that I can.  Thank you for your support and advice, especially over these last weeks of horrible!

    Thanks to everyone just the same. It has been a very difficult time and I really do appreciate all of you for taking your time with me.

    @PrettyGirlLost, with all due respect, whether he attends our wedding or not, is our decision to make. To say the least, he has left it up to us. Coming to dinner, opening up our home, is also our decision, not his. I understand why your thoughts... based on my previous post. What I failed to mention, about myself, is when someone makes a decision about their walk in Christ, and I know about it, I have a part in it. I believe I have a responsibility to not "lead" them astray but encourage and support their efforts. It's simple for me, if someone decides to give up alcohol, I will not invite them out for a drink. My brother has decided that my marriage will be adulterers with only one outcome-for us- hell. For him-hell. He is choosing "heaven" and I won't invite him into "hell." This is my responsibility as his sister in Christ. Perhaps I have some growing to do in this area, but I feel I can't cause my "brother to stumble." I am not a a martyr though. There is an element of self preservation. I prefer to protect myself and not have someone, brother or not, actively in my life who sees me/us the way is now does. Could you? How would that work? 'Hey brother, Im a disgusting adulteress whore, who is going to burn in hell, but before I spend eternity on fire, wanna come over and play monopoly with me?"  haha! :) Oh boy, I just felt a tinge of anger pop up! :)

    Seriously, I would not use his or any ones decision to justify a decision I make in any aspect of my life, if I do not believe it myself.



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    themuffinman16themuffinman16 member
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    edited April 2014
    Sorry ifI have offended other PPs, I guess I just don't know the other reasons why someone could get an annulment.  But I still think all religions should recognize divorce. I know far too many people call it quits without trying, but in cases where one person is extremely unhappy, telling people to just accept it seems heartless.

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    photokittyphotokitty mod
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    edited April 2014
    themuffinman16 said:
    Sorry ifI have offended other PPs, I guess I just don't know the other reasons why someone could get an annulment.  But I still think all religions should recognize divorce. I know far too many people call it quits without trying, but in cases where one person is extremely unhappy, telling people to just accept it seems heartless.

    Add in abuse and cheating - neither of which are grounds for an annulment in the Catholic Church - and you start to see how truly heartless the process is... It sucks.
    :kiss: ~xoxo~ :kiss:

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    HisGirlFriday13HisGirlFriday13 member
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    themuffinman16 said:
    Sorry ifI have offended other PPs, I guess I just don't know the other reasons why someone could get an annulment.  But I still think all religions should recognize divorce. I know far too many people call it quits without trying, but in cases where one person is extremely unhappy, telling people to just accept it seems heartless.

    I know of no church, the Roman Catholic Church included, who tells people to just 'accept' unhappiness or abuse or anything else.
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    I'm gonna go with 'not my circus, not my monkeys.'
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    thesummerskythesummersky member
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    LAM524 said:
    As far as reception, its a celebration! Simple: he can not celebrate something he doesnt agree with. In total, its best he does not attend at all. Besides, I dont want to look at his face just to be reminded of his judgement/condemnation. Word!

    As far as life beyond our wedding, how could I ever invite him into my "marital" home?  These 2 scriptures are what he showed me and are the bases for his decison: Psalms 50:18 (" ...When you see a thief, you join with him; you throw in your lot with adulterers) and 1 Cor 6:9 (Don't you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality..." If he "throws in" with us being that we are adulterers, he is an adulterer, therefore he also is not going to heaven. Jesus visited, helped and taught everyone and anyone. In fact, he was looked at as weird at the time because he broke the norm and broke bread with these people. Pretty sure Jesus is in Heaven ;) 

    He said he doesnt want to fragment our relations BUT (based on these scriptures) how could we even so much as invite him over for dinner? Never mind even the slightest association. He will be "throwing in" with us! Based on his own convictions, he CAN NOT! Right? So for him to say he doesnt want this to fragment us, he is selectively "walking" a Christian life!! To me, his decision has to be all or nothing so not to be a hypocrite. Yes? He cant take some scripture , judge us to a point that he also could go to hell if he is IN the wedding (guilt by association), pull out and not live the rest of his life by the other scripture pertaining to "adulterers!" He can not associate with us! If I "respect" his convictions and decision, then I am to disassociate. Technically, he is the one who should disassociate but I dont like helping people be hypocrites! You have graciously extended the opportunity for him to share in what will be one of the best days of your life. If he chooses to decline (based on him not wanting to be a hypocrite in his own mind), then it's on him. Based on your interactions though, not having him there may be the most wise choice. He has some learning and growing to do, and it may not happen before your ceremony. Save yourself the heartache.

    And unless my reasoning is off the wall, and I am hoping you will advice, this is what I will put forth to him! And tell him that I will love him from a distance (a safe one) and pray for him. BTW...my fiance is processing this all the same way. That sounds like the best plan for now. I'm joining you in prayer, btw! 

    Sorry if these scriptures offend anyone, it is not my intent, at all!  I have only posted them to explain where my thoughts are coming from and do not mean to cause any harm or debate.




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    RebeccaB88RebeccaB88 member
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    HisGirlFriday13 said:
    I know of no church, the Roman Catholic Church included, who tells people to just 'accept' unhappiness or abuse or anything else.
    A friend's church did. She was counseled by their priest that it was her duty to stay in an abusive, unhappy marriage with a man who did not see what he was doing as abusive or chauvinist, because they had kids and God would reward her for her commitment.  She's now divorced and not part of that church anymore. It was an Eastern Orthodox church.
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    photokittyphotokitty mod
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    HisGirlFriday13 said:
    themuffinman16 said:
    Sorry ifI have offended other PPs, I guess I just don't know the other reasons why someone could get an annulment.  But I still think all religions should recognize divorce. I know far too many people call it quits without trying, but in cases where one person is extremely unhappy, telling people to just accept it seems heartless.

    I know of no church, the Roman Catholic Church included, who tells people to just 'accept' unhappiness or abuse or anything else.
    That may be true, but they still might not grant the annulment and as a result the divorced person cannot remarry or they do they can no longer participate in all aspects of the Catholic Church.

    I did not agree with the notion of divorce, until I had to get one. I also assumed the annulment process was just, fair and logical - again until I had to get one. I now know what a flawed process it is and in my experience at least, is slanted once again in the man's favor.

    I can't understand why any church would make people jump through so many hoops and in some cases shun and/or disenfranchise people who want to participate and fully enter into the faith and the faith community. I attended mass weekly and was a regular lector at my church, until church law said I could not receive communion. What good has that done for me or my parish? All it did was leave me hurt and my parish with one less lector and one less active parishioner. 

    I'm not attacking you or your (our) faith @HisGirlFriday13 , but I feel the need to share my side. If for no other reason than how alone I felt going through the process...you literally feel like the world's biggest failure and ashamed bc you couldn't make it work, by no fault of you own (at least in my case) with the questions they asked me and the way I was treated by my diocese.
    :kiss: ~xoxo~ :kiss:

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    saacjwsaacjw member
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    photokitty said:
    HisGirlFriday13 said:
    themuffinman16 said:
    Sorry ifI have offended other PPs, I guess I just don't know the other reasons why someone could get an annulment.  But I still think all religions should recognize divorce. I know far too many people call it quits without trying, but in cases where one person is extremely unhappy, telling people to just accept it seems heartless.

    I know of no church, the Roman Catholic Church included, who tells people to just 'accept' unhappiness or abuse or anything else.
    That may be true, but they still might not grant the annulment and as a result the divorced person cannot remarry or they do they can no longer participate in all aspects of the Catholic Church.

    I did not agree with the notion of divorce, until I had to get one. I also assumed the annulment process was just, fair and logical - again until I had to get one. I now know what a flawed process it is and in my experience at least, is slanted once again in the man's favor.

    I can't understand why any church would make people jump through so many hoops and in some cases shun and/or disenfranchise people who want to participate and fully enter into the faith and the faith community. I attended mass weekly and was a regular lector at my church, until church law said I could not receive communion. What good has that done for me or my parish? All it did was leave me hurt and my parish with one less lector and one less active parishioner. 

    I'm not attacking you or your (our) faith @HisGirlFriday13 , but I feel the need to share my side. If for no other reason than how alone I felt going through the process...you literally feel like the world's biggest failure and ashamed bc you couldn't make it work, by no fault of you own (at least in my case) with the questions they asked me and the way I was treated by my diocese.
    My aunt's ex was abusive and when they separated, she tried to get an annulment and was told in no uncertain terms that she could not have an annulment because of the abuse. She's extremely devout, but had to leave the marriage for her and her children's safety and ended up getting divorced to ensure that he had limited rights regarding the kids, despite the fact that it really falls out of line with everything she believes. Fortunately, the priests in the churches she attends (she goes to a few different ones because of mass timings) allow her to take communion, but should she ever wish to remarry, she wouldn't because she technically can't. It really does put her in a bit of a jam and she has expressed feeling the same way you did. 
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    CrazyCatLady3CrazyCatLady3 member
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    photokitty said:
    HisGirlFriday13 said:
    themuffinman16 said:
    Sorry ifI have offended other PPs, I guess I just don't know the other reasons why someone could get an annulment.  But I still think all religions should recognize divorce. I know far too many people call it quits without trying, but in cases where one person is extremely unhappy, telling people to just accept it seems heartless.

    I know of no church, the Roman Catholic Church included, who tells people to just 'accept' unhappiness or abuse or anything else.
    That may be true, but they still might not grant the annulment and as a result the divorced person cannot remarry or they do they can no longer participate in all aspects of the Catholic Church.

    I did not agree with the notion of divorce, until I had to get one. I also assumed the annulment process was just, fair and logical - again until I had to get one. I now know what a flawed process it is and in my experience at least, is slanted once again in the man's favor.

    I can't understand why any church would make people jump through so many hoops and in some cases shun and/or disenfranchise people who want to participate and fully enter into the faith and the faith community. I attended mass weekly and was a regular lector at my church, until church law said I could not receive communion. What good has that done for me or my parish? All it did was leave me hurt and my parish with one less lector and one less active parishioner. 

    I'm not attacking you or your (our) faith @HisGirlFriday13 , but I feel the need to share my side. If for no other reason than how alone I felt going through the process...you literally feel like the world's biggest failure and ashamed bc you couldn't make it work, by no fault of you own (at least in my case) with the questions they asked me and the way I was treated by my diocese.
    @photokitty please explain.  Just curious.
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    photokittyphotokitty mod
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    CrazyCatLady3 said:
    photokitty said:
    HisGirlFriday13 said:
    themuffinman16 said:
    Sorry ifI have offended other PPs, I guess I just don't know the other reasons why someone could get an annulment.  But I still think all religions should recognize divorce. I know far too many people call it quits without trying, but in cases where one person is extremely unhappy, telling people to just accept it seems heartless.

    I know of no church, the Roman Catholic Church included, who tells people to just 'accept' unhappiness or abuse or anything else.
    That may be true, but they still might not grant the annulment and as a result the divorced person cannot remarry or they do they can no longer participate in all aspects of the Catholic Church.

    I did not agree with the notion of divorce, until I had to get one. I also assumed the annulment process was just, fair and logical - again until I had to get one. I now know what a flawed process it is and in my experience at least, is slanted once again in the man's favor.

    I can't understand why any church would make people jump through so many hoops and in some cases shun and/or disenfranchise people who want to participate and fully enter into the faith and the faith community. I attended mass weekly and was a regular lector at my church, until church law said I could not receive communion. What good has that done for me or my parish? All it did was leave me hurt and my parish with one less lector and one less active parishioner. 

    I'm not attacking you or your (our) faith @HisGirlFriday13 , but I feel the need to share my side. If for no other reason than how alone I felt going through the process...you literally feel like the world's biggest failure and ashamed bc you couldn't make it work, by no fault of you own (at least in my case) with the questions they asked me and the way I was treated by my diocese.
    @photokitty please explain.  Just curious.
    I can pm you with generalizations, but it's a little too personal to plaster on the interwebz =)
    :kiss: ~xoxo~ :kiss:

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    perdonamiperdonami member
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    edited April 2014
    Wow, and I thought my brother was bad... Really goes to show that when you think you got it bad you find out that someone else has it just as bad if not worse. 

    I am really sorry this is happening to you. IMO weddings are suppose to  be a happy occasion where guests are welcomed to come celebrate your love. When friends and family don't see your wedding as a happy celebration and aim to destroy it by doing hurtful things is just deplorable. 

    This is the one of the few occasions where I don't think taking the 'high road' will do any good. Your brother is trying to break up your relationship. WTH? To me it sounds like he is trying to ruin your wedding and sabotage your impending marriage. Who does that? If he really feels that way, than he should decline to attend and state his reasons to do so with YOU and not the fiance. Besides, if he is going to act out like this now, what will he do at your actual wedding?

    As for the religious aspect, it is probably best for me not to add my .02 as it will piss a lot of people off and is not necessary or helpful to you in this situation. But, I will say that it has always been my understanding that Christianity is about forgiveness, turning the other cheek, and loving your fellow man. That it is not right to judge as that ability is reserved only for God. Who gave your brother the divine right to pass judgement on you? When did he become the divine arbiter of truth? 

    As others have stated, pray for him and revoke him the honor of attending your wedding which I am sure will be absolutely wonderful. 
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    HisGirlFriday13HisGirlFriday13 member
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    RebeccaB88 said:

    HisGirlFriday13 said:
    I know of no church, the Roman Catholic Church included, who tells people to just 'accept' unhappiness or abuse or anything else.
    A friend's church did. She was counseled by their priest that it was her duty to stay in an abusive, unhappy marriage with a man who did not see what he was doing as abusive or chauvinist, because they had kids and God would reward her for her commitment.  She's now divorced and not part of that church anymore. It was an Eastern Orthodox church.
    Not to be nit-picky, but the friend's PRIEST said that, not the Church as a whole. I'm not discounting that it was shitty, but the fact that a person representing the church said that doesn't mean that the whole church believes that. It's still wrong -- very, very wrong -- of him to say that, and he should be held accountable for it, but him saying it doesn't make it dogmatic, you know?

    The DRE of my parish believes -- and says, often -- that yoga is spiritually wrong and bad for you and sinful and that good Catholics shouldn't do it. She's wrong, but her saying it's sin doesn't make it a sin, you know? 
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    I'm gonna go with 'not my circus, not my monkeys.'
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    ViczaesarViczaesar member
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    @CMGragain, it's a lot more complicated than that, and you certainly can't say "The Jewish people had only recently become monogamous since their contact with the Greek culture a few centuries before.  Until then, they had been polygamous."



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    mbross3mbross3 member
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    thetimewillcome said:
    Oops...sorry, I mean the New Testament. I fail. I'm seriously so embarrassed.

    Matthew 19:9 for reference: And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immortality, and marries another commits adultery. (Obviously different Bibles say it differently).

    ETA: I do not follow the above passage (I am divorced...nuff said). I was just throwing it out there as a possibility of where the brother may have got it from. In retrospect, it really does not matter where the brother got it from, but I didn't want to be a semi-DD.
    I could use me some sexual immortality! 
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    mbross3mbross3 member
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    edited April 2014
    HisGirlFriday13 said:
    themuffinman16 said:
    Sorry ifI have offended other PPs, I guess I just don't know the other reasons why someone could get an annulment.  But I still think all religions should recognize divorce. I know far too many people call it quits without trying, but in cases where one person is extremely unhappy, telling people to just accept it seems heartless.

    I know of no church, the Roman Catholic Church included, who tells people to just 'accept' unhappiness or abuse or anything else.
    I volunteer with a domestic abuse shelter (as a legal intern) and we hear this literally on a daily basis. It's very sad, but almost every single victim of domestic abuse that regularly goes to church, tells us that they are counseled to "work harder" at their relationship/being a good wife, etc. 

    ETA: spelling
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    CrazyCatLady3CrazyCatLady3 member
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    mbross3 said:
    HisGirlFriday13 said:
    themuffinman16 said:
    Sorry ifI have offended other PPs, I guess I just don't know the other reasons why someone could get an annulment.  But I still think all religions should recognize divorce. I know far too many people call it quits without trying, but in cases where one person is extremely unhappy, telling people to just accept it seems heartless.

    I know of no church, the Roman Catholic Church included, who tells people to just 'accept' unhappiness or abuse or anything else.
    I volunteer with a domestic abuse shelter (as a legal intern) and we hear this literally on a daily basis. It's very sad, but almost every single victim of domestic abuse that regularly goes to church, tells us that they are counseled to "work harder" at their relationship/being a good wife, etc. 

    ETA: spelling
    Has the shelter thought about doing any outreach to local religious groups to sit down with leaders and explain how abusers operate, their psychology, etc?
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    LAM524LAM524 member
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    Oh....WITHOUT fiance! ;)

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    HisGirlFriday13HisGirlFriday13 member
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    CrazyCatLady3 said:


    HisGirlFriday13 said:


    RebeccaB88 said:


    HisGirlFriday13 said:



    I know of no church, the Roman Catholic Church included, who tells people to just 'accept' unhappiness or abuse or anything else.

    A friend's church did. She was counseled by their priest that it was her duty to stay in an abusive, unhappy marriage with a man who did not see what he was doing as abusive or chauvinist, because they had kids and God would reward her for her commitment.  She's now divorced and not part of that church anymore. It was an Eastern Orthodox church.

    Not to be nit-picky, but the friend's PRIEST said that, not the Church as a whole. I'm not discounting that it was shitty, but the fact that a person representing the church said that doesn't mean that the whole church believes that. It's still wrong -- very, very wrong -- of him to say that, and he should be held accountable for it, but him saying it doesn't make it dogmatic, you know?

    The DRE of my parish believes -- and says, often -- that yoga is spiritually wrong and bad for you and sinful and that good Catholics shouldn't do it. She's wrong, but her saying it's sin doesn't make it a sin, you know? 



    Should one of the higher-ups tell her to stop saying that?  Things like that drive educated people from the church.

    The priest tells her she's not allowed to say it in religious ed classes or in any context in which she has authority. So that kind of helps.

    She's dating a guy and I just him to propose and move her down to his parish three states away...
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    I'm gonna go with 'not my circus, not my monkeys.'
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    RebeccaB88RebeccaB88 member
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    HisGirlFriday13 said:
    RebeccaB88 said:

    HisGirlFriday13 said:
    I know of no church, the Roman Catholic Church included, who tells people to just 'accept' unhappiness or abuse or anything else.
    A friend's church did. She was counseled by their priest that it was her duty to stay in an abusive, unhappy marriage with a man who did not see what he was doing as abusive or chauvinist, because they had kids and God would reward her for her commitment.  She's now divorced and not part of that church anymore. It was an Eastern Orthodox church.
    Not to be nit-picky, but the friend's PRIEST said that, not the Church as a whole. I'm not discounting that it was shitty, but the fact that a person representing the church said that doesn't mean that the whole church believes that. It's still wrong -- very, very wrong -- of him to say that, and he should be held accountable for it, but him saying it doesn't make it dogmatic, you know?

    The DRE of my parish believes -- and says, often -- that yoga is spiritually wrong and bad for you and sinful and that good Catholics shouldn't do it. She's wrong, but her saying it's sin doesn't make it a sin, you know? 
    Well, she's since left the church because of how the other adults were treating her after the divorce - not speaking to her, left out of parish events, kids not included in kids activities, no more phone calls or emails or friendly conversations, no contact from closer friends. Her ex-husband is still an active member, and the kids are welcomed when they're with him, but not her. The priest may have said it, but apparently, the other church members agree.
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    perdonamiperdonami member
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    RebeccaB88 said:
    Well, she's since left the church because of how the other adults were treating her after the divorce - not speaking to her, left out of parish events, kids not included in kids activities, no more phone calls or emails or friendly conversations, no contact from closer friends. Her ex-husband is still an active member, and the kids are welcomed when they're with him, but not her. The priest may have said it, but apparently, the other church members agree.
    That's just awful. 
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    LAM524LAM524 member
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    Terrible! :(


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    tortoisebridetortoisebride member
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    Maybe I missed something, but where were his objections when you were dating? You'd think this would have come up sooner.

    I agree with the suggestions that there's some projection going on here. Your brother is probably sad about his own future, and as he watches you and your fiance start a new life together, he sees what he's never going to have if he sticks to his convictions. So he has two choices for dealing with that- live and let live, or cling ever harder to his convictions. Obviously the first would be preferable, but I think the second is more natural. Try to view his behavior as that of a sufferer grasping at what is solid in his life, rather than as a judgmental jerk who doesn't care if he hurts the people he loves or who love him. The latter may be totally accurate, but it's more painful for you, I think. I'd guess it's not even really about you; it's about him.
    This is me reading threads on TK
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    theexactleetheexactlee member
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    Seriously, I can only offer hugs.
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