We are adulterers so brother dropped out of wedding!

LAM524

My brother informed my fiance tonight that he is not going to be a groomsman in our wedding (May 24) because we are adulterers and he can not stand up there as a witness BUT he can be a guest. (don't guest witness?) His reason:  we are adulterers because we have both been married before and divorced. If we marry then we will not enter God's kingdom. If he stands up there with us, he won't either. He also said that he is not judging or condemning us. Really?
He is leaving it up to us as to whether or not we want him to attend as a guest. If not, he will "understand."

I cant truly begin to sort my feelings out with any good rationale. The only things I know for sure are that I want to throw up; I'm extremely shocked and hurt; and I truly cant handle one more drama filled thing! I also want to take the loss thus far, $15,000. and elope. Screw it all! It's just all too much!

mysticl

I'm so sorry your brother dumped that on you.  

My suggestion is give yourself a couple of days before you address it with him.  That will hopefully give you time to sort out how you feel.

With that being said I think that a guest stating they are opposed to your wedding (and it sounds like that's what he's saying) is ground to revoke an invite.  However, he's your brother so it isn't that simple.  

mysticl

BTW:  Love the Tinker Bell stuff

lyndausvi

Well that sucks.  Is he really religious?

I think I would say something like "sorry you feel that way" than still invite him to the wedding.   It would be more for my own good for not having to explain why I didn't invite him.  A missing brother would be talked about in my family, not worth the drama to me.  If he doesn't attend then I could throw it back on him.

kitty8403

I'm guessing his stated objection is to anyone remarrying post-divorce, not to an actual history of infidelity in the previous relationships of those involved, correct? If that's the case, while I know a number of conservative Christian groups would agree, I personally find that to be judgmental and questionable theology that ignores the human element. I don't see the moral difference between standing and sitting in support of your wedding.
What he said to you sounds deeply hurtful. Before disinviting him (or cutting off contact), I would try having a talk with him. He should at least know how unkindly his words came across.

CMGragain

Your brother is sadly misinformed.  Adultery means people who have a sexual liason outside of an existing marriage. (Cheating.)  It does not mean premarital sex.
It sounds like your brother is being influenced by other people.  This must be very hurtful to you.  I am so sorry.  Hopefully, he will eventually grow away from this very judgmental opinion.  Didn't Jesus say, "Judge not, lest ye be judged"?
I would let it go.  He may come to truly regret his hurtful actions.  If you keep the door open, you may reconcile at a later time.
This is NOT what being a Christian is about!  How very sad.

PS.  Is your brother Catholic?  If he is, perhaps a priest could talk to him.

daria24

Honestly with all the drama surrounding your wedding, I would have eloped a long time ago.

Your brother is being a judgemental dipshit (didn't Jesus say "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"?) but only you can decide what would be worse: seeing your brother there at your wedding, knowing how he feels. Or telling him to stay home and deal with any questions/comments/gossiping from family.

Simply Fated

LAM524 said:

My brother informed my fiance tonight that he is not going to be a groomsman in our wedding (May 24) because we are adulterers and he can not stand up there as a witness BUT he can be a guest. (don't guest witness?) His reason:  we are adulterers because we have both been married before and divorced. If we marry then we will not enter God's kingdom. If he stands up there with us, he won't either. He also said that he is not judging or condemning us. Really?
He is leaving it up to us as to whether or not we want him to attend as a guest. If not, he will "understand."

I cant truly begin to sort my feelings out with any good rationale. The only things I know for sure are that I want to throw up; I'm extremely shocked and hurt; and I truly cant handle one more drama filled thing! I also want to take the loss thus far, $15,000. and elope. Screw it all! It's just all too much!

I beg to differ with him. He sounds pretty Judgey to me.

Don't let THIS be your final straw. I would just tell him that it's up to him whether or not he wants to attend as a guest and leave it at that. Or let him know that the guests will be witnessing, too, so perhaps it's best if he stays away that day. Which ever. Either way, definitely give it a day or two or three for some cool down time. In the meantime, drink some wine or something with a lot of alcohol in it. Or eat a cookie or ten cookies.

Let him judge away and then someday he'll be judged and it won't be pretty.

manateehugger

So your brother remember that whole sin part, but not the Christ dying for our sins and forgiveness part (kind of the most important part)? I'm really sorry. I would want to encourage him to spend more time in the Bible and to discuss his thoughts with a pastor or priest, but I have a feeling that wouldn't do much. I would have eloped too with all your family drama. 

That said, we can't really tell you which will feel better for you - having your misinformed, negative brother there? Or not having to deal with him being there, but potentially dealing with the fallout. 

thesummersky

So your brother remember that whole sin part, but not the Christ dying for our sins and forgiveness part (kind of the most important part)? I'm really sorry. I would want to encourage him to spend more time in the Bible and to discuss his thoughts with a pastor or priest, but I have a feeling that wouldn't do much. I would have eloped too with all your family drama. 

That said, we can't really tell you which will feel better for you - having your misinformed, negative brother there? Or not having to deal with him being there, but potentially dealing with the fallout. 

**STUCK IN BOX**

It is sad how all too often, the gospel is forgotten but the laws that governed people before redemption aren't!

I would still invite him to the wedding, and accept that he has declined being in the wedding party. If he says no to being a guest, than he is declining and that's not on you. Are you a believer yourself? I'd pray for him.

Edited: Missed a word.

AddieCake

This is just now coming up? He didn't decline immediately based on theses convictions?

Jen4948

You might quote to your brother, "Judge not, lest ye be judged."

I'm sorry he has been so hurtful to you.

artbyallie

AddieCake said:

This is just now coming up? He didn't decline immediately based on theses convictions?

This. What's up with that?

I'd hand him a rock. "Gee, brother dear, it must be so wonderful for you to never sin. Guess you're supposed to stone me now, right?"

crunchymamaof2

AddieCake said:

This is just now coming up? He didn't decline immediately based on theses convictions?

Exactly! Frankly, I'd tell him to stay home.

HisGirlFriday13

AddieCake said:

This is just now coming up? He didn't decline immediately based on theses convictions?

This. A month out and it JUST NOW occurred to him? Isn't this the brother who lived with you while he and his wife were having problems?

You've posted about him before, IIRC, and it's never been terribly favourable.

It's like he's LOOKING for a reason for you to uninvite him or cut him out of your lives.

Invite him anyway. Put the ball in his court. Mirror the forgiveness Jesus taught that apparently your brother missed the memo on.

redwoodoriginal

AddieCake said:

This is just now coming up? He didn't decline immediately based on theses convictions?

Agreed! That was my first thought when reading this.... 

OP, I'm sorry he's acting this way. I hate it when people start acting "holier than thou"... one of my many issues with religious people (not all! just those types of religious ppl)

ETA: Realistically, I'd just be like okay, thanks for that.... and invite him anyway. Ideally, I'd probably be like, a) why is this coming up NOW, since you knew all this info before... and then b) rip him a new one with what adultery actually means & all those religious quotes from the bible and ask him to explain himself then. 

Maggie0829

My response, "Brother, I am sorry you feel that way.  You will be missed at the wedding."

I don't care if he is your brother or not but he does not deserve to be invited to your wedding.  He is judging you.  He is also grossly wrong about the definition of adultery.  Maybe you should buy him a dictionary and a bible and tell him to read up.

chibiyui

Maggie0829 said:

My response, "Brother, I am sorry you feel that way.  You will be missed at the wedding."

I don't care if he is your brother or not but he does not deserve to be invited to your wedding.  He is judging you.  He is also grossly wrong about the definition of adultery.  Maybe you should buy him a dictionary and a bible and tell him to read up.

I recommend highlighting the words "Adultery" "Judgmental" "Condemn" and "Estranged"

SammiNJonni

CMGragain said:

Your brother is sadly misinformed.  Adultery means people who have a sexual liason outside of an existing marriage. (Cheating.)  It does not mean premarital sex.
It sounds like your brother is being influenced by other people.  This must be very hurtful to you.  I am so sorry.  Hopefully, he will eventually grow away from this very judgmental opinion.  Didn't Jesus say, "Judge not, lest ye be judged"?
I would let it go.  He may come to truly regret his hurtful actions.  If you keep the door open, you may reconcile at a later time.
This is NOT what being a Christian is about!  How very sad.

PS.  Is your brother Catholic?  If he is, perhaps a priest could talk to him.

He is saying they are adulterers due to divorce not premarital sex. Churches do not recognize divorce so subsequent marraiges are cheating on the first spouse in their eyes.

OP are you catholic? Is an annulment of the first marriage possible?

ETA: the annulment is only a suggestion for OP if that is a route she wants to follow. I can see how it can be taken out of context that she should do this for her brother. That is not what I meant. FTR I was raised catholic am divorced and have not had an annulment because neither the first nor current wedding will be in a church. I don't practice my faith.

Maggie0829

SammiNJonni said:

CMGragain said:

Your brother is sadly misinformed.  Adultery means people who have a sexual liason outside of an existing marriage. (Cheating.)  It does not mean premarital sex.
It sounds like your brother is being influenced by other people.  This must be very hurtful to you.  I am so sorry.  Hopefully, he will eventually grow away from this very judgmental opinion.  Didn't Jesus say, "Judge not, lest ye be judged"?
I would let it go.  He may come to truly regret his hurtful actions.  If you keep the door open, you may reconcile at a later time.
This is NOT what being a Christian is about!  How very sad.

PS.  Is your brother Catholic?  If he is, perhaps a priest could talk to him.

He is saying they are adulterers due to divorce not premarital sex. Churches do not recognize divorce so subsequent marraiges are cheating on the first spouse in their eyes.

OP are you catholic? Is an annulment of the first marriage possible?

OP should not have to get an annulment because her brother is being an ass and passing judgement on her and her upcoming marriage.

SammiNJonni

Maggie0829 said:

SammiNJonni said:

CMGragain said:

Your brother is sadly misinformed.  Adultery means people who have a sexual liason outside of an existing marriage. (Cheating.)  It does not mean premarital sex.
It sounds like your brother is being influenced by other people.  This must be very hurtful to you.  I am so sorry.  Hopefully, he will eventually grow away from this very judgmental opinion.  Didn't Jesus say, "Judge not, lest ye be judged"?
I would let it go.  He may come to truly regret his hurtful actions.  If you keep the door open, you may reconcile at a later time.
This is NOT what being a Christian is about!  How very sad.

PS.  Is your brother Catholic?  If he is, perhaps a priest could talk to him.

He is saying they are adulterers due to divorce not premarital sex. Churches do not recognize divorce so subsequent marraiges are cheating on the first spouse in their eyes.

OP are you catholic? Is an annulment of the first marriage possible?

OP should not have to get an annulment because her brother is being an ass and passing judgement on her and her upcoming marriage.

You are absolutely right she should not do it for her brother. It was just a suggestion if she wanted to look into it.

MuppetOverlord

PDKH said:

So your brother remember that whole sin part, but not the Christ dying for our sins and forgiveness part (kind of the most important part)? I'm really sorry. I would want to encourage him to spend more time in the Bible and to discuss his thoughts with a pastor or priest, but I have a feeling that wouldn't do much. I would have eloped too with all your family drama. 

That said, we can't really tell you which will feel better for you - having your misinformed, negative brother there? Or not having to deal with him being there, but potentially dealing with the fallout. 

This - coupled with the question regarding why he waited until now to put you in this position.

I would write him a letter using some of what she said above and make his own decision about whether he can handle witnessing as a guest. That's not on you.

I also wouldn't be inviting him to anything else related to the and decide after the weddinghow I'm going to handle my relationship with him. No need to deal with it now. You can put space in between this. I probably would not speak to my brother again until he apologized because my marriage is a pretty massive part of my life that I want supported by my family and friends and if they can't handle that, I don't feel like they should be part of my life.

themuffinman16

To me, an annulment is just  piece of crap.  I don't see how anyone can say a marriage never happened unless one or both parties were not mentally sound to make that decision.It is just a way to get around divorce.  Divorce should exist.  Both parties don't always try. So if one person does not put any effort into a marriage, does that mean the other person is doomed to be stuck in a loveless marriage? I don't think that adheres to the teachings of Christ.

  My father is doing a Mexican standoff as well, and he is not coming to the wedding because he cannot walk me down the aisle.  Your brother is being really judgmental.  Sending you hugs and thoughts of delicious red wine to get you through this. Whatever you decide, it will be the right decision, because you won't enter into it, lightly. There will be plenty of people overjoyed to witness your marriage, even though it hurts what your brother has said, focus on everyone else.

fourtsixand2

This marriage is about you and your fiance, not your brother.  I understand wanting your friends and family to be supportive of your marriage, but if someone chooses to not participate because of their personal opinion, then so be it.  

It is not our place on this Earth to judge one another, but to live in the likeness of Christ and let Him be the final judge.  

This is a time of celebrating, not condemning.  I would address it with your brother once you've chewed on it a while and let him know that this is a time for support, but do not let it ruin your day or plans.  If he cannot be happy for you, he is only reflecting unhappiness in himself.  

banana468

themuffinman16 said:

To me, an annulment is just  piece of crap.  I don't see how anyone can say a marriage never happened unless one or both parties were not mentally sound to make that decision.It is just a way to get around divorce.  Divorce should exist.  Both parties don't always try. So if one person does not put any effort into a marriage, does that mean the other person is doomed to be stuck in a loveless marriage? I don't think that adheres to the teachings of Christ.

  My father is doing a Mexican standoff as well, and he is not coming to the wedding because he cannot walk me down the aisle.  Your brother is being really judgmental.  Sending you hugs and thoughts of delicious red wine to get you through this. Whatever you decide, it will be the right decision, because you won't enter into it, lightly. There will be plenty of people overjoyed to witness your marriage, even though it hurts what your brother has said, focus on everyone else.

I think YOU are now being really judgemental. The point of an annulment is when there are proven grounds that a marriage was not sacramental. It isn't just a way to get around divorce although the legal dissolution of marriage is often rather complicated, especially when there are community assets and children involved. I know that this isn't necessarily pertaining to the OP but it annoys me in its ignorance.

@LAM524, I'll echo the others saying he is full of shit but still extend the invitation. I'd even day to him that you feel it's the Christian thing to do. I'm sorry he's acting like such a turd.

ElcaB

What the what? 

Your brother sounds like an asshole. If he doesn't agree with decisions you've made, that's his business, but this is a dick move. 

HisGirlFriday13

banana468 said:

To me, an annulment is just  piece of crap.  I don't see how anyone can say a marriage never happened unless one or both parties were not mentally sound to make that decision.It is just a way to get around divorce.  Divorce should exist.  Both parties don't always try. So if one person does not put any effort into a marriage, does that mean the other person is doomed to be stuck in a loveless marriage? I don't think that adheres to the teachings of Christ.

  My father is doing a Mexican standoff as well, and he is not coming to the wedding because he cannot walk me down the aisle.  Your brother is being really judgmental.  Sending you hugs and thoughts of delicious red wine to get you through this. Whatever you decide, it will be the right decision, because you won't enter into it, lightly. There will be plenty of people overjoyed to witness your marriage, even though it hurts what your brother has said, focus on everyone else.

I think YOU are now being really judgemental. The point of an annulment is when there are proven grounds that a marriage was not sacramental. It isn't just a way to get around divorce although the legal dissolution of marriage is often rather complicated, especially when there are community assets and children involved. I know that this isn't necessarily pertaining to the OP but it annoys me in its ignorance. @LAM524, I'll echo the others saying he is full of shit but still extend the invitation. I'd even day to him that you feel it's the Christian thing to do. I'm sorry he's acting like such a turd.

So much this. Annulments don't exist to 'get around' divorce. That's not the purpose of them. The Catholic Church doesn't just grant annulments willy-nilly, or deny them when they should be given.

It also has NOTHING to do with the legal dissolution of marriage. If you want to get divorced, go right ahead. 

Also, annulments don't say a marriage never happened. they say there was a reason the marriage was invalid. The RCC views marriage as a contract, and an annulment acknowledges and fixes a defect in the contract by voiding the contract -- and that defect can include the lack of intent of one party to enter into a lifelong commitment. 

Your example of not being mentally sound is one reason an annulment can be granted, but there are others. 

But just because you don't understand them or you don't agree with them doesn't make them 'crap.'

daria24

SammiNJonni said:

CMGragain said:

Your brother is sadly misinformed.  Adultery means people who have a sexual liason outside of an existing marriage. (Cheating.)  It does not mean premarital sex.
It sounds like your brother is being influenced by other people.  This must be very hurtful to you.  I am so sorry.  Hopefully, he will eventually grow away from this very judgmental opinion.  Didn't Jesus say, "Judge not, lest ye be judged"?
I would let it go.  He may come to truly regret his hurtful actions.  If you keep the door open, you may reconcile at a later time.
This is NOT what being a Christian is about!  How very sad.

PS.  Is your brother Catholic?  If he is, perhaps a priest could talk to him.

He is saying they are adulterers due to divorce not premarital sex. Churches do not recognize divorce so subsequent marraiges are cheating on the first spouse in their eyes.

OP are you catholic? Is an annulment of the first marriage possible?

ETA: the annulment is only a suggestion for OP if that is a route she wants to follow. I can see how it can be taken out of context that she should do this for her brother. That is not what I meant. FTR I was raised catholic am divorced and have not had an annulment because neither the first nor current wedding will be in a church. I don't practice my faith.

OP is not Catholic, from what I remember. She is marrying a man who is a minister of another Christian faith. While Catholics require an annulment for a former marriage, many other Christian sects recognize divorce. 

climbingsingle

Honestly, I'd tell him to fuck right off. As PPs said, why is this coming up NOW? I'm angry for you. And I'd tell him not to come to the wedding. 

PrettyGirlLost

daria24 said:

Honestly with all the drama surrounding your wedding, I would have eloped a long time ago. Your brother is being a judgemental dipshit (didn't Jesus say "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"?) but only you can decide what would be worse: seeing your brother there at your wedding, knowing how he feels. Or telling him to stay home and deal with any questions/comments/gossiping from family.

^This.  Your brother is being a hypocritical, self righteous ass.  And I'm sorry

Let him step down, and invite him to the wedding, but don't put up with any of his pretentious preaching.

Bubblegum5586

I am also curious to why this is happening one month before the wedding? Did something happen that is causing him to act this way?

When I was in high school I had a BF that I dated for about a year. I would go to the after school CCD teen group with him and he attended my (Jewish) confirmation. We were always very open with our beliefs which did run parallel. Then that summer he went away to his Christian camp he went to every year and came back and broke up with me, saying that because I didn't believe in Jesus I was going to hell and he just couldn't bare the thought of that and could no longer be with me. It was the influences of that camp that made him act that way (years later we are still friends and he is now an atheist….)