Am I doing the right thing?

AlexaF2014

TL;DR : MOB wants to invite groom's estranged-ish step-grandmother, against the wishes of the groom and his family.

Ok, details. FOG's parents divorce long ago in a galaxy far far away. Grandma got remarried to step-granddad, who later adopted FOG. FOG lived with grandma and step-granddad throughout his childhood. Grandpa got remarried to step-grandmom. Grandpa and step-grandmom live in the same town as MOB. MOB meets grandpa and step-grandmom after B&G start dating. MOB and step-grandmom get along well (same ethnic background, go to the same church). For whatever reason, MOG and FOG are not close with grandpa and step-grandmom. Grandpa gets sick and passes away (Groom and family visit hospice and attend funeral). Grandma get sick and passes away. Only remaining grandparents are step-granddad and step-grandma.

Bride asks both parents for guests lists. MOB, as she is paying for the reception, sees the complete guest list and notices step-granddad is on there but step-grandma is not. Questions the bride about it (repeatedly) and is told to drop it. Bride now finds out she is pressuring to groom to include step-grandma in the guest-list. Groom talks to POG, who both say they would be "uncomfortable" with step-grandma attending. MOB not told this yet, but imagine a shit-storm on the horizon.

(Switching to "I" now, because writing "bride" all the time sucks) I'm really pissed she's putting pressure on FI about this. I have nothing against step-grandma, but I'm in the camp of "Not my family, not my decision." My mom really thinks that it's "right" that step-grandma be invited, and she keeps saying that step-g doesn't have to be seated by FI's parents, but unless she sits with my mom, she's not going to know anyone there, and FI said his parents will avoid step-g all night. Mother also says step-g is one of "her friends" but as the guest list stands, my mother is already inviting more of her friends than me and FI combined (irks me, but not my hill to die on). We are also very tight on the guest list right now, and 1 person might not break it, but I want to refuse on a manner of principle.

My stand is that I should be behind my fiance on this one; according to him, there is "no bridge left to burn" in this relationship and while he seems a bit ambivalent about step-g's attendance, if it makes his parents uncomfortable, he supports them. Am I doing the right thing by supporting FI on this? Should step-gma be invited no matter what? If my mom's paying, does she get to overrule someone else's comfort? I feel like I'm doing the right thing, but you ladies always seem to know what's best, and I really appreciate your opinion.

lilacck28

To be clear: this woman would DEFINITELY be painful for your fiance and parents to have around? Because it does seem like a petty slight unless there is actual bad-blood. If it would cause them pain:

Your mom knows that this woman would cause upset to the groom and his parents? If this woman really would upset them, and your mother knows this then: 

I think you're doing the right thing. You are inviting many of your mom's friends because she is paying, but this person is not her friend first. She is a member of your Fiance's family with whom there is an estranged relationship. It should be up to him and his parents. I think you should usually support your fiance, and in this case I think you should too.You may want to talk to your fiance about what you will decide to do  if your mom threatens to pull funding over this, or has more of a hissy fit. 

If your mom does not fully understand that this woman would cause pain to your fiance and his parents, then perhaps you should have a longer conversation with her about it so she understands the situation and is not just operating under the assumption that is family is being rude/ unfair/ petty. 

pinkshorts27

AlexaF2014 said:

TL;DR : MOB wants to invite groom's estranged-ish step-grandmother, against the wishes of the groom and his family.

Ok, details. FOG's parents divorce long ago in a galaxy far far away. Grandma got remarried to step-granddad, who later adopted FOG. FOG lived with grandma and step-granddad throughout his childhood. Grandpa got remarried to step-grandmom. Grandpa and step-grandmom live in the same town as MOB. MOB meets grandpa and step-grandmom after B&G start dating. MOB and step-grandmom get along well (same ethnic background, go to the same church). For whatever reason, MOG and FOG are not close with grandpa and step-grandmom. Grandpa gets sick and passes away (Groom and family visit hospice and attend funeral). Grandma get sick and passes away. Only remaining grandparents are step-granddad and step-grandma.

Bride asks both parents for guests lists. MOB, as she is paying for the reception, sees the complete guest list and notices step-granddad is on there but step-grandma is not. Questions the bride about it (repeatedly) and is told to drop it. Bride now finds out she is pressuring to groom to include step-grandma in the guest-list. Groom talks to POG, who both say they would be "uncomfortable" with step-grandma attending. MOB not told this yet, but imagine a shit-storm on the horizon.

(Switching to "I" now, because writing "bride" all the time sucks) I'm really pissed she's putting pressure on FI about this. I have nothing against step-grandma, but I'm in the camp of "Not my family, not my decision." My mom really thinks that it's "right" that step-grandma be invited, and she keeps saying that step-g doesn't have to be seated by FI's parents, but unless she sits with my mom, she's not going to know anyone there, and FI said his parents will avoid step-g all night. Mother also says step-g is one of "her friends" but as the guest list stands, my mother is already inviting more of her friends than me and FI combined (irks me, but not my hill to die on). We are also very tight on the guest list right now, and 1 person might not break it, but I want to refuse on a manner of principle.

My stand is that I should be behind my fiance on this one; according to him, there is "no bridge left to burn" in this relationship and while he seems a bit ambivalent about step-g's attendance, if it makes his parents uncomfortable, he supports them. Am I doing the right thing by supporting FI on this? Should step-gma be invited no matter what? If my mom's paying, does she get to overrule someone else's comfort? I feel like I'm doing the right thing, but you ladies always seem to know what's best, and I really appreciate your opinion.

OliveOilsMom

Is there any person in your mom's life that would make her understand the level of uncomfortableness that will happen to POG if step-grandma is in attendance. Like if there is a random ex-step uncle or someone who your mom doesn't care for, but you wanted to invite because he's FI's friend. I think this should be your hill to die on. Can you and FI return your mother's money and pay for the reception yourself? I think that should be your first step, if she will not listen rationally to any conversation you have. Then you can also trim the overall guest list, taking off your mom's other friends too.

AlexaF2014

OliveOilsMom said:

Is there any person in your mom's life that would make her understand the level of uncomfortableness that will happen to POG if step-grandma is in attendance. Like if there is a random ex-step uncle or someone who your mom doesn't care for, but you wanted to invite because he's FI's friend. I think this should be your hill to die on. Can you and FI return your mother's money and pay for the reception yourself? I think that should be your first step, if she will not listen rationally to any conversation you have. Then you can also trim the overall guest list, taking off your mom's other friends too.

I've tried getting her to empathize with an ex-relative she dislikes, but she says, and I quote, "It's not the same!" ffs.

We could return the money she put down and afford it ourselves, but only if we trimmed the guest list down to what we originally planned instead of how many she wanted. Unfortunately, STDs already went out and it would be rude to dis-invite people because of this. 

Step-gma didn't get an STD, and won't be getting an invite (unless someone comes up with etiquette that says she has to be invited). HOWEVER, if the worst case scenario happens and mom somehow invites her anyway? Holy hell, build me a memorial because I will die on this hill stunningly. I will cancel the reception and FI and I will get married in the courthouse. Without mom. Hoping it doesn't come to that.

bethsmiles

AlexaF2014 said:

OliveOilsMom said:

Is there any person in your mom's life that would make her understand the level of uncomfortableness that will happen to POG if step-grandma is in attendance. Like if there is a random ex-step uncle or someone who your mom doesn't care for, but you wanted to invite because he's FI's friend. I think this should be your hill to die on. Can you and FI return your mother's money and pay for the reception yourself? I think that should be your first step, if she will not listen rationally to any conversation you have. Then you can also trim the overall guest list, taking off your mom's other friends too.

I've tried getting her to empathize with an ex-relative she dislikes, but she says, and I quote, "It's not the same!" ffs.

We could return the money she put down and afford it ourselves, but only if we trimmed the guest list down to what we originally planned instead of how many she wanted. Unfortunately, STDs already went out and it would be rude to dis-invite people because of this. 

Step-gma didn't get an STD, and won't be getting an invite (unless someone comes up with etiquette that says she has to be invited). HOWEVER, if the worst case scenario happens and mom somehow invites her anyway? Holy hell, build me a memorial because I will die on this hill stunningly. I will cancel the reception and FI and I will get married in the courthouse. Without mom. Hoping it doesn't come to that.

Have you tried telling your mother this?

AlexaF2014

bethsmiles said:

AlexaF2014 said:

OliveOilsMom said:

Is there any person in your mom's life that would make her understand the level of uncomfortableness that will happen to POG if step-grandma is in attendance. Like if there is a random ex-step uncle or someone who your mom doesn't care for, but you wanted to invite because he's FI's friend. I think this should be your hill to die on. Can you and FI return your mother's money and pay for the reception yourself? I think that should be your first step, if she will not listen rationally to any conversation you have. Then you can also trim the overall guest list, taking off your mom's other friends too.

I've tried getting her to empathize with an ex-relative she dislikes, but she says, and I quote, "It's not the same!" ffs.

We could return the money she put down and afford it ourselves, but only if we trimmed the guest list down to what we originally planned instead of how many she wanted. Unfortunately, STDs already went out and it would be rude to dis-invite people because of this. 

Step-gma didn't get an STD, and won't be getting an invite (unless someone comes up with etiquette that says she has to be invited). HOWEVER, if the worst case scenario happens and mom somehow invites her anyway? Holy hell, build me a memorial because I will die on this hill stunningly. I will cancel the reception and FI and I will get married in the courthouse. Without mom. Hoping it doesn't come to that.

Have you tried telling your mother this?

No, I have not. She would think I'm overreacting, or being overly dramatic (it kinda is...), and the issue of pressuring FI about it only came up this weekend; prior, I thought subject was closed, but apparently not. I know she's only trying to do what she thinks is best, but I'm just afraid she going to go over our heads to do so, and not respect our wishes and the wishes of his family. Maybe she'll get the message, but I can't help but to jump to "what if?"

l9i

AlexaF2014 said:

OliveOilsMom said:

Is there any person in your mom's life that would make her understand the level of uncomfortableness that will happen to POG if step-grandma is in attendance. Like if there is a random ex-step uncle or someone who your mom doesn't care for, but you wanted to invite because he's FI's friend. I think this should be your hill to die on. Can you and FI return your mother's money and pay for the reception yourself? I think that should be your first step, if she will not listen rationally to any conversation you have. Then you can also trim the overall guest list, taking off your mom's other friends too.

I've tried getting her to empathize with an ex-relative she dislikes, but she says, and I quote, "It's not the same!" ffs.

We could return the money she put down and afford it ourselves, but only if we trimmed the guest list down to what we originally planned instead of how many she wanted. Unfortunately, STDs already went out and it would be rude to dis-invite people because of this. 

Step-gma didn't get an STD, and won't be getting an invite (unless someone comes up with etiquette that says she has to be invited). HOWEVER, if the worst case scenario happens and mom somehow invites her anyway? Holy hell, build me a memorial because I will die on this hill stunningly. I will cancel the reception and FI and I will get married in the courthouse. Without mom. Hoping it doesn't come to that.

I debating this right now for my own hill to die on with an unwelcomed guest.  I've tried saying this and they think I'm joking that I need the 'wedding' aspect - nope, just the marriage aspect!

KatWAG

AlexaF2014 said:

OliveOilsMom said:

Is there any person in your mom's life that would make her understand the level of uncomfortableness that will happen to POG if step-grandma is in attendance. Like if there is a random ex-step uncle or someone who your mom doesn't care for, but you wanted to invite because he's FI's friend. I think this should be your hill to die on. Can you and FI return your mother's money and pay for the reception yourself? I think that should be your first step, if she will not listen rationally to any conversation you have. Then you can also trim the overall guest list, taking off your mom's other friends too.

I've tried getting her to empathize with an ex-relative she dislikes, but she says, and I quote, "It's not the same!" ffs.

We could return the money she put down and afford it ourselves, but only if we trimmed the guest list down to what we originally planned instead of how many she wanted. Unfortunately, STDs already went out and it would be rude to dis-invite people because of this. 

Step-gma didn't get an STD, and won't be getting an invite (unless someone comes up with etiquette that says she has to be invited). HOWEVER, if the worst case scenario happens and mom somehow invites her anyway? Holy hell, build me a memorial because I will die on this hill stunningly. I will cancel the reception and FI and I will get married in the courthouse. Without mom. Hoping it doesn't come to that.

If you say this to her, are you and fi fully prepared to stand behind it?

theartistformerlyknownas

I think you're fully in the right here. The fact that this woman would cause the groom and his family emotional pain trumps the fact that she's friends with your mother. If one of your mom's friends randomly punched your FI in the face tomorrow, would she still be invited to the wedding just because your mom is paying? Of course not.

Say "Mom, we appreciate your opinion on this matter, but I am not willing to subject FI to emotional pain on what is supposed to be one of the happiest days of his life. This woman is not invited, it's not up for debate, and we're not discussing this any further under any circumstances." If she brings it up again or says she'll invite her anyway, tell her there won't be a wedding reception to invite her to, but be fully prepared to follow through.

I also suggest sending the invitations personally, if you weren't planning on doing so anyway, not letting Mom have any extra copies, and warning your DOC that you may have an uninvited guest who would need to be shown the door.

[Deleted User]

I think all you can do is sit her down & explain that out of respect to Groom and his family that stepgrandma (going to refer to her as Alice to make things easier for typing) should not be invited even though Alice is a friend of hers. You respect the fact that she is paying for the reception & you are fine with her inviting her friends, but that this is the one guest that you have to veto to make sure your future in-laws are comfortable and an enjoy the day also. If she keeps insisting tell her then she leaves you with two options, to go and elope to avoid this potential nightmare or that you will graciously decline her gift of the money & pay for it herself which will reduce the guest list cutting some of her guests from the list.

AlexaF2014

All- Thank you. I've been lurking a lot and I thought this was the "right" thing, but wanted to be sure. If it comes to the point where I have to say "We're eloping," I would be very upset. I haven't discussed that with FI, because it hasn't come to that yet, however I think I will if, after I/we tell mom step-g still isn't invited, mom continues to press the issue. If he and I are on the same page, I am prepare to follow though. I'm ordering and mailing the invitations, so the only way she would be invited is by word-of-mouth, and I would assume she's aware enough to realize she wasn't properly invited and might not be welcome. I don't know why step-g and FI family aren't close. It could be something petty, it could be something huge. Whatever it is, I still stand by FI in this and trust his judgement about why she shouldn't be invited. Thank you again, please let me know if you have any other advice. ETA: TK ate my paragraphs. I hope they were delicious.

theartistformerlyknownas

AlexaF2014 said: All- Thank you. I've been lurking a lot and I thought this was the "right" thing, but wanted to be sure. If it comes to the point where I have to say "We're eloping," I would be very upset. I haven't discussed that with FI, because it hasn't come to that yet, however I think I will if, after I/we tell mom step-g still isn't invited, mom continues to press the issue. If he and I are on the same page, I am prepare to follow though. I'm ordering and mailing the invitations, so the only way she would be invited is by word-of-mouth, and I would assume she's aware enough to realize she wasn't properly invited and might not be welcome. I don't know why step-g and FI family aren't close. It could be something petty, it could be something huge. Whatever it is, I still stand by FI in this and trust his judgement about why she shouldn't be invited. Thank you again, please let me know if you have any other advice. ETA: TK ate my paragraphs. I hope they were delicious. Edited because TK is eating quote boxes, too
It really shouldn't have to come to eloping. I highly doubt your mom feels so strongly about this that she'd risk missing her daughter's wedding just to have this lady there. You just need to really mean it for it to SOUND like you mean it, KWIM? Hopefully just the mention that you would rather have no wedding at all than a wedding with this woman there will make it clear how important this is to you, and she'll back off.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!!

PrettyGirlLost

lolo883 said:

I think you're fully in the right here. The fact that this woman would cause the groom and his family emotional pain trumps the fact that she's friends with your mother. If one of your mom's friends randomly punched your FI in the face tomorrow, would she still be invited to the wedding just because your mom is paying? Of course not.

Say "Mom, we appreciate your opinion on this matter, but I am not willing to subject FI to emotional pain on what is supposed to be one of the happiest days of his life. This woman is not invited, it's not up for debate, and we're not discussing this any further under any circumstances." If she brings it up again or says she'll invite her anyway, tell her there won't be a wedding reception to invite her to, but be fully prepared to follow through.

I also suggest sending the invitations personally, if you weren't planning on doing so anyway, not letting Mom have any extra copies, and warning your DOC that you may have an uninvited guest who would need to be shown the door.

Not only this, but I'd tell her, "Mom, I know you think we are bluffing and being melodramatic, but I promise you were are dead serious. This woman is not invited, she will not be receiving an invitation, and if she "somehow" shows up on our wedding day I will personally have you both escorted out."

Why ruin the day for everyone and waste all of that money over two pain in the asses? Seriously, kick them the eff out and enjoy your day!

levieenrose

AlexaF2014, I really sympathize with you. We did not invite an immediate family member because the relationship to DH was an abusive one. It was a bit uncomfortable because another immediate family member who actually lived with said-abusive person was invited (no, they weren't a couple). Unbelievably, I did bring a picture and told the coordinator not to let so-and-so through--we shouldn't have the drama of kicking someone out, and I know that would have been a marr for DH on an otherwise very loving, beautiful day.

I'm sorry that your mother currently isn't able to see beyond her own relationship with this individual and support your and FI's preference. Your wedding is a celebration of an amazing commitment that you are making to a special person in your life, and there shouldn't be room on your guest list for people who are not supportive of that. And it's also not the place or time for forced reconciliations. Your gut is in the right place--from now on, FI is your #1 teammate.

While it's fantastic that your family is willing to help out financially, it does seem unwise to accept it if your family is going to leverage those kinds of conditionals over you both. I agree that it is rude to dis-invite people, but maybe it's worth having a discussion about that with FI. I mean that's exactly what would happen anyway if you cancelled the reception or ask your mother/step-granmother-in-law to be escorted out of the reception (and wow, that would probably change your relationship with your mother forever). Is FI (and parents) so against this potential guest that you'd be willing to make substantial changes together? If you try what Lolo and Erikan suggest and find that your mom can't be emotionally pursuaded by the details of a painful relationship, having a serious discussion about changing the gameplan would probably do it. 

Let us know how it goes!

ETA: Re-reading that, I didn't mean to ask FI's parents for money, but to find out the degree to which they are willing to avoid her.

AlexaF2014

I talked with FI last night about what our game plan is. He didn't go into too much details about why there's such a rift, just that decades of passive aggressiveness and petty slights by step-gma soured the relationship not only between step-gma and parents, but grandpa and parents too, which is really sad. He mad it clear that his priority is his parents and preventing drama and discomfort, which I kind of agree with, especially on our wedding day. There doesn't seem to be anything physical or violent going on, so at least there's that.

We both agreed that while mom will probably still push she issue, it's really unlikely she'll go so far as to hold the reception payment over our head, or go behind our back and invite step-gma anyway. However, we did discuss and agree to a plan of action should any of that happen. We also agreed to talk to her together once we have the "finalized" guest list back (needed the names of some of the SO of people she wanted to invite) and say "The guest list is officially closed, there will be no more additions, end of discussion." She tries to include step-gma? "Guest list is closed." But why won't you invite her? "End of discussion."

The lesson I learned is always to communicate with your SO. He things a bit differently than I do, and is not nearly as pessimistic about my mother and her attitude. When it comes down to it, I hope that my mother's relationship with me is more important than her relationship with step-gma; FI thinks so too, but my mom's just trying really hard to have it both ways.

[Deleted User]

Another option nobody mentioned is changing the wedding date.  You already sent STDates to the guests of the current wedding, but if your mom continues to be a pain, you just cancel the current wedding.  You don't have to go straight to eloping.  You can reschedule with a new (smaller) guest list (particularly since you'll be removing all of mom's friends along with mom's money) and start all over.

Now that I've typed this, I'm not sure of the etiquette of this.  I think it's ok if you significantly decrease the guest list, but I could be wrong.

PrettyGirlLost

adk19 said:

Another option nobody mentioned is changing the wedding date.  You already sent STDates to the guests of the current wedding, but if your mom continues to be a pain, you just cancel the current wedding.  You don't have to go straight to eloping.  You can reschedule with a new (smaller) guest list (particularly since you'll be removing all of mom's friends along with mom's money) and start all over.

Now that I've typed this, I'm not sure of the etiquette of this.  I think it's ok if you significantly decrease the guest list, but I could be wrong.

Depending on how close OP is to her actual wedding date and how quickly vendors and venues book in her area, this is probably not an option.

When you cancel on contracted venues and vendors you will incur a financial penalty, and the closer your wedding date is at the time you cancel, the greater the penalty.  Not only that, but most places might already be booked with other weddings and events for the remainder of this year and perhaps into next year.

[Deleted User]

PrettyGirlLost said:

adk19 said:

Another option nobody mentioned is changing the wedding date.  You already sent STDates to the guests of the current wedding, but if your mom continues to be a pain, you just cancel the current wedding.  You don't have to go straight to eloping.  You can reschedule with a new (smaller) guest list (particularly since you'll be removing all of mom's friends along with mom's money) and start all over.

Now that I've typed this, I'm not sure of the etiquette of this.  I think it's ok if you significantly decrease the guest list, but I could be wrong.

Depending on how close OP is to her actual wedding date and how quickly vendors and venues book in her area, this is probably not an option.

When you cancel on contracted venues and vendors you will incur a financial penalty, and the closer your wedding date is at the time you cancel, the greater the penalty.  Not only that, but most places might already be booked with other weddings and events for the remainder of this year and perhaps into next year.

But if she's considering eloping anyway... this might be considered a middle ground between the giant wedding with all of mom's friends, and eloping just the two of them.