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Nevermind.

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Re: Nevermind.

  • themosthappy91themosthappy91 member
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    jerkyanne said:
    You're on the internet. People can only judge you based on what you said. And what you said was A. Bad advice for an etiquette forum and B made you sound childish and entitled. And to be frank. The number 1 thing I hated in college when I got my degree was the people who thought they were better than those not in their "prestigious program". It's obnoxious.
    Of course everyone is entitled to making judgments based on things said on public forums like these. What I don't get is making pointless personal attacks with absolutely no relationship to giving advice, help, or wisdom. Was my advice really more inappropriate for an etiquette forum than someone literally coming out of nowhere to hijack a thread and tell someone who was simply trying to help that they shouldn't even be getting married? I think the nastiness of Ms. McCaw's comment speaks for itself and that's the kind of thing I think really has no place here. Never mind the fact that my advice was basically no different from the majority of other posters'- how to make the best of a situation you shouldn't have gotten yourself into. I did already address this elsewhere so I won't go into it all the way again, but I reject the notion that saying my parents covered parts of my living expenses (with literally no other context) makes me sound childish or entitled, and quite frankly I think it's jerky for someone to jump immediately to that conclusion. I guess if you thought that I think that was a jerky thing for you to think (and I literally just noticed your name is jerkyanne so I guess I shouldn't be surprised, lol). But you are welcome to be a jerk in your own head- goodness knows we're all guilty of assuming the worst without all the facts at some point or another. What I have a problem with is feeling entitled to attack someone based on your assumptions when you know full well you know basically 1 percent of the full story. I guess what I'm truly promoting here is just a smidge of self-awareness- you must know logically that there are countless valid reasons why someone's parents might be helping them out financially, so many consider for one second that they might not be a terrible entitled brat before publicly calling them out and telling them they need to call off their wedding. Finally, sorry if I came across as obnoxious. I'm very proud of how hard we've worked to get into great programs, but I certainly don't think I'm better than anyone else- it's what you do with degree that counts, not the degree itself :).
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  • themosthappy91themosthappy91 member
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    I'm so sorry Knot community, the fact that I appear to be spamming this board with replies is probably making me look crazier than everything else (these responses have been over the course of hours, I promise, things are just slow on here tonight...).  I promise I wouldn't normally do this- I just wanted to reply to those who took the time to reply to me, plus FI is up with a stomach bug and I'm just trying to pass the time in between bringing him glasses of water... okay nighty night!
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  • gothic_fairy60gothic_fairy60 member
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    edited September 2014
    @themosthappy91:

    Your right. You don't know my situation. My husband and I married a few weeks ago. I am still an undergrad and my husband has a wonderful job. We simply lived with his parents while we paid off loans and saved for the wedding so that we could begin our marriage debt free. It was incredibly hard for me to live with them, as it was for him. Neither of us liked "living with mommy and daddy" as you put it. We did move out before the wedding though.

    All I meant when I commented to you was that if your are needing your parents financial support at this time, maybe you should wait to get married. That's what we did. We waited an extra year to be able to be fully independent and debt free. I was not trying to attack you, as I understand that your situation may be less than ideal. 

    I do agree that when you post information on the internet you have to be ok with people commenting on any aspect of your post. Next time don't post anything you may not want discussed, because your point may not be the only thing discussed. Or don't post.

    OP, I am sorry that your thread got jacked, but I fully agree with the responses that we on topic. Since the topic has already been discussed with your future in laws, you need to accept their answer. It may not have been as detailed as you would like, but I don't believe you should have asked in the first place. You now have to decide if you drop it and forget their money, or will you discuss it openly with them?

    Edit because typing is hard lol.
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  • jerkyannejerkyanne member
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    edited September 2014
    themosthappy91 said:


    jerkyanne said:

    You're on the internet. People can only judge you based on what you said. And what you said was A. Bad advice for an etiquette forum and B made you sound childish and entitled.

    And to be frank. The number 1 thing I hated in college when I got my degree was the people who thought they were better than those not in their "prestigious program". It's obnoxious.

    Of course everyone is entitled to making judgments based on things said on public forums like these. What I don't get is making pointless personal attacks with absolutely no relationship to giving advice, help, or wisdom. Was my advice really more inappropriate for an etiquette forum than someone literally coming out of nowhere to hijack a thread and tell someone who was simply trying to help that they shouldn't even be getting married? I think the nastiness of Ms. McCaw's comment speaks for itself and that's the kind of thing I think really has no place here. Never mind the fact that my advice was basically no different from the majority of other posters'- how to make the best of a situation you shouldn't have gotten yourself into.

    I did already address this elsewhere so I won't go into it all the way again, but I reject the notion that saying my parents covered parts of my living expenses (with literally no other context) makes me sound childish or entitled,     and quite frankly I think it's jerky for someone to jump immediately to that conclusion. I guess if you thought that I think that was a jerky thing for you to think (and I literally just noticed your name is jerkyanne so I guess I shouldn't be surprised, lol). But you are welcome to be a jerk in your own head- goodness knows we're all guilty of assuming the worst without all the facts at some point or another. What I have a problem with is feeling entitled to attack someone based on your assumptions when you know full well you know basically 1 percent of the full story. I guess what I'm truly promoting here is just a smidge of self-awareness- you must know logically that there are countless valid reasons why someone's parents might be helping them out financially, so many consider for one second that they might not be a terrible entitled brat before publicly calling them out and telling them they need to call off their wedding.

    Finally, sorry if I came across as obnoxious. I'm very proud of how hard we've worked to get into great programs, but I certainly don't think I'm better than anyone else- it's what you do with degree that counts, not the degree itself :).



    ETA. Stuck in the stupid friggen box. Argh


    You can reject the notion all you want, however, multiple people seem to be in consensus about it. And for me it wasn't that you live with your parents it is how you went about saying it.

    And very clever.
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  • lilacck28lilacck28 member
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    edited September 2014
    JCbride2015 said:
    @themosthappy91 I think you see that you overreacted with your tone so I won't harp on you for that.

    But I do want to comment on the entitlement issue.  At least based on how it comes off in your posts.  You say you didn't intend to come off as entitled.  Your parents offered to pay your living expenses, and the wedding is a gift, so you aren't "having" them pay for anything.

    Just consider the privilege you have though, with those statements.  You seem to be taking for granted that just like your parents, OP's Fi's parents have the means and desire to help.  

    Many of my very well-meaning and financially well-off friends made similar statements all through my school years and even today: "Just ask your parents to put money in your grocery account, you really need it so they have to give it to you."  "You paid for your OWN car?"  "So I went to Marshall's with my mom and picked out a bunch of stuff and then we got to the register and she chose three things out of my stack that she was paying for.  I was like... um.... I guess I'm not getting the rest of this then. [From a 25-year-old]."

    Not everybody's experience reflects your experience.  And when you give advice assuming that your situation is normal, and everybody has such generous parents, it comes off alienating to the (probably majority) of people who are self-supporting.  And yeah, it makes you sound immature because you are not considering that others are different from yourself.

    Now here's where I put in my own personal bias.  I have paid my own bills since I was 17 (and bought my own clothes since 14) and moved within weeks from my dorm room into my own apartment upon my college graduation, with almost no debt thanks to scholarships.  I supported myself through a prestigious 2-year public service education program, and then also supported myself through one of the country's very top law schools.  Now Fi and I are paying for our own wedding, using my salary from oh yeah-- one of the country's top law firms.  

    So when young people act like they deserve help from their parents only because they're in a prestigious program?  I guess I would "deserve" or be "worthy" of that help as much as the next person, but that's not my life situation.  Nor is it for a lot of people.  Just because somebody might be deserving of help, with school or a wedding or whatever, doesn't mean it's safe to assume their parents are able or willing to give it.  When you assume that just because something is deserved, it should be given, yeah that sounds entitled.

    ETA: but forgot to mention, I don't think finances are necessarily the overwhelming metric to measure a couple's readiness for marriage.  The comment that you aren't ready to be married just because you're receiving help from your parents was uncalled for IMO.  I do think it's a good point, though, that financial management is an important part of a marriage and you should understand you'll have to work on financial independence as a couple.
    I didn't read her responses this way at all. Her responses seemed, to me, at times over the top because she was highly offended.

     I too would have been VERY offended to be told I shouldn't be getting married since my parents have helped to support me through college and graduate school. (for the record, they HAVE helped to support me through both of those endeavors. I recognize how privileged that makes me. And I am very grateful. Had I not been this privileged, I would have found a means to support myself. Whether or not someone has parents willing and able to support them is not a mark for or against their character or willingness to work hard.) 

    Anyway, she seems highly aware of being so privileged to have parents that wanted to help support her. Those well meaning friends you mentioned, at least in the context you provided, do not seem aware of their privilege. That makes a big difference. 

    You say she's assuming the OP's FI's parents feel the same way. I do agree with you there, but I think that was a function of giving the OP the benefit of the doubt that when her Fiance's parents said "yes, we'd like to help, how much do these things cost?" they actually meant it (rather than just saying it because they were brow beaten.) 

    Just want to reiterate, since this discussion took a nasty turn: Whether or not someone has parents willing and able to support them (either financially or by providing a place to live or providing emotional support) is not a mark for or against their character or indicative of their willingness to work hard. 

    ETA: I also went to top schools. Lots of people go to "top schools." And lots of very smart people go to second and third tier schools. I am also guilty of occasionally allowing the "top school" conceit to get to me. But, it's always better to remind yourself how ridiculous those distinctions can be, and often are. And, again, going to a top school, just like having parents or friends or family that support you, is not indicative of having a good or bad character. 

    PPS- OP, I did, however, read your post as being highly oblivious to your privilege, and quite rude. You do not ask people for money. You do not know their situation. If someone wants to offer money, they will. You were lucky your parents offered to pay, but in no way did you deserve that money. No one deserves money from someone else for a wedding, or for much of anything really. I hope, for your sake, that this has not damaged your relationship with your Fiance or your future in laws too terribly. Because I imagine that they now consider you more than a bit entitled. I hope you can make up for this lapse in judgement. 
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  • APDSS22APDSS22 member
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    To the OP and ignoring the derailment: We waited until my ILs offered to help. They told us they wanted to cover the rehearsal dinner and my FIL was nice enough to pick up the tux rental for all the boys (including the groomsmen).

    Since they have now offered (though you asked first) why not say "maybe you guys could pick up the rehearsal dinner?" Let them know how many people you think that would be and maybe a type of food you an your FI like or several. If that makes them look uncomfortable, maybe pick something smaller like the officiant fee (that should be a set amount)
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  • themosthappy91themosthappy91 member
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    Lol I don't know if OP is gone forever now so it might not matter but if you are ever coming back-

    As lilacck said I was assuming your FILs' offer to help is a happy and genuine one, but maybe I read that tone differently than others. There's a big difference between "Oh yeah, just let us know whatever you need!" (in a chipper tone) and "Oh... well I guess let us know if there's something you really need..." (in an uncomfortable tone). I mean yeah, both are offers to help but I was reading your FMIL's words more as the former when I advised you to just have a blunt conversation about what you'd like their help with. But now, due to issues being raised of this being an entitled reading of your dilemma (I like to think of it more as just taking people at their word, but whatever), I would like to amend my advice to include that if you sensed reluctance on their part and/or your FI thinks they don't truly want to/aren't able to contribute financially (he knows better than you if this is something they ever anticipated having to pay for, after all), just drop it with them.

    Like I said originally (which was somehow overlooked by those accusing me of being a monster who demands that all parents pay for their children's weddings)- better to let your parents pay for the whole thing if that are truly happy to do it, than to have both sets of parents contributing but one set is unhappy and uncomfortable!
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  • zitiqueenzitiqueen member
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    themosthappy91 said:
    Well, I realize I'm probably in the minority here, but I don't think it's inappropriate to float a conversation with both sets of parents involved at the outset of planning a wedding about what kind of event they're envisioning and, if they have strong feelings about certain aspects of the wedding, what they are able to contribute to make their vision a reality. The reality is that weddings are as much for the families as they are for the people getting married and I'd just as soon be upfront about what my parents and in-laws are expecting and if they are able to back up their expectations with financial support rather than have me and FI stressing trying to plan something that we have no idea the expectations or budget for, and then be taken aback when late in the game someone comes in and says "I really feel it should be this way, I'll pay to cover it" and we have to completely change course. Especially when it comes to "traditional events" like weddings, we've been very surprised by home much the people in our lives tend to operate off the assumption that what they are "used to" will match up with what we are planning, no questions asked... so if you know that's the kind of crowd you're dealing with, I do support forcing the conversation a bit more than most people on this board would be comfortable with. SO with that preface, I do think that, while I am sympathetic to your feelings of frustration, you need to correct how you're approaching this issue. Your in-laws clearly aren't very invested in paying for (and hence, having a say in) anything in particular, so if you could really use their help on something you need to just figure out what it is you want and then ask them directly if they can cover the cost (since they've graciously offered to let you know how much they can contribute on an as-needed basis). They thing about wanting money from other people is, you can't act mortified at the idea of having to discuss money with them, so either get comfortable with the idea of having blunt conversations with your FILs about wedding finances or get comfortable with not expecting their help. As for your family and his family contributing uneven amounts... I'm sorry but that's life and people can choose how to spend their money however they want. I really do feel your pain- sometimes it annoys the HECK out of me that my parents are covering so much more of our wedding (not to mention general living) expenses, but they're under no obligation to you, so you might as well just try not to let it bother you because it really shouldn't. Your FI is right to some degree at least that if your parents are happy to handle all the expense, you should let them handle it all rather than make his parents uncomfortable... and if your parents really aren't cool with paying for it all, you two can cover the remainder. At the end of the day, I guess I'm just not really sure what response you were looking for from them. You say you were speechless when your FMIL said "You'll let us know how much you need, right?", but you also later said to your FI that you'd give him a dollar amount to ask for and consider it handled... so I don't really get where those two things are different. What was the ideal response you wanted from them? Edit: If anyone can tell me how to fix this post to allow paragraphs I would greatly appreciate it! I understand how this massive block of text is not very reader-friendly but I can't for the life of me figure out how to get this website to let me format the way I want to.
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  • zitiqueenzitiqueen member
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    themosthappy91 said:
    Well, I realize I'm probably in the minority here, but I don't think it's inappropriate to float a conversation with both sets of parents involved at the outset of planning a wedding about what kind of event they're envisioning and, if they have strong feelings about certain aspects of the wedding, what they are able to contribute to make their vision a reality. The reality is that weddings are as much for the families as they are for the people getting married and I'd just as soon be upfront about what my parents and in-laws are expecting and if they are able to back up their expectations with financial support rather than have me and FI stressing trying to plan something that we have no idea the expectations or budget for, and then be taken aback when late in the game someone comes in and says "I really feel it should be this way, I'll pay to cover it" and we have to completely change course. Especially when it comes to "traditional events" like weddings, we've been very surprised by home much the people in our lives tend to operate off the assumption that what they are "used to" will match up with what we are planning, no questions asked... so if you know that's the kind of crowd you're dealing with, I do support forcing the conversation a bit more than most people on this board would be comfortable with. SO with that preface, I do think that, while I am sympathetic to your feelings of frustration, you need to correct how you're approaching this issue. Your in-laws clearly aren't very invested in paying for (and hence, having a say in) anything in particular, so if you could really use their help on something you need to just figure out what it is you want and then ask them directly if they can cover the cost (since they've graciously offered to let you know how much they can contribute on an as-needed basis). They thing about wanting money from other people is, you can't act mortified at the idea of having to discuss money with them, so either get comfortable with the idea of having blunt conversations with your FILs about wedding finances or get comfortable with not expecting their help. As for your family and his family contributing uneven amounts... I'm sorry but that's life and people can choose how to spend their money however they want. I really do feel your pain- sometimes it annoys the HECK out of me that my parents are covering so much more of our wedding (not to mention general living) expenses, but they're under no obligation to you, so you might as well just try not to let it bother you because it really shouldn't. Your FI is right to some degree at least that if your parents are happy to handle all the expense, you should let them handle it all rather than make his parents uncomfortable... and if your parents really aren't cool with paying for it all, you two can cover the remainder. At the end of the day, I guess I'm just not really sure what response you were looking for from them. You say you were speechless when your FMIL said "You'll let us know how much you need, right?", but you also later said to your FI that you'd give him a dollar amount to ask for and consider it handled... so I don't really get where those two things are different. What was the ideal response you wanted from them? Edit: If anyone can tell me how to fix this post to allow paragraphs I would greatly appreciate it! I understand how this massive block of text is not very reader-friendly but I can't for the life of me figure out how to get this website to let me format the way I want to.
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  • PrettyGirlLostPrettyGirlLost member
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    themosthappy91 said:
    Gothic fairy, at least I'VE never had to go so far as moving back home- I worked my butt off in undergrad and qualified for a ton of scholarships and work study for grad school in order to be able to cover my rent and not have to resort to being a freaking adult couple living at home with mommy and daddy. Yes our parents helped us out with gas and groceries, but I would be mortified to be living back at home with them. So yeah, maybe take a good hard look at your own life before you judge. If anyone can't tell, I am livid right now that people would actually go out of their way to judge my life and condescend to tell me that I shouldn't be getting married without ANY idea of what they are talking about on a thread that literally has nothing to do with me other than I was trying to give this poor girl some advice. You are vile people.
    Speaking of judgmental, condescending, and rude.

    Do you see yourself as more of a pot or a kettle?

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


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  • themosthappy91themosthappy91 member
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    PrettyGirlLost said:
    themosthappy91 said:
    Gothic fairy, at least I'VE never had to go so far as moving back home- I worked my butt off in undergrad and qualified for a ton of scholarships and work study for grad school in order to be able to cover my rent and not have to resort to being a freaking adult couple living at home with mommy and daddy. Yes our parents helped us out with gas and groceries, but I would be mortified to be living back at home with them. So yeah, maybe take a good hard look at your own life before you judge. If anyone can't tell, I am livid right now that people would actually go out of their way to judge my life and condescend to tell me that I shouldn't be getting married without ANY idea of what they are talking about on a thread that literally has nothing to do with me other than I was trying to give this poor girl some advice. You are vile people.
    Speaking of judgmental, condescending, and rude.

    Do you see yourself as more of a pot or a kettle?
    Heyyyyy come on I apologized and owned up to being too harsh there!  I was (I believe justifiably) pissed that someone would make such a nasty and unwarranted comment towards me (and to be fair, it was Ms. McCaw and not Gothic fairy who made those comments, she just said she agreed), but I made the mistake of lashing out and doing to her what she was doing to me- judging without knowing her situation.  And I even admitted that without anyone even calling me out on it!  I'm sure Gothic fairy did what was best for her in her situation just like I did, and it was wrong of me to suggest she should be ashamed of that no matter how offensive she was being to begin with.  I WOULD be mortified to move back home but that's because I'm not in a situation where I need to, so that would basically just be a lazy and selfish move on my part.  But I was wrong to assume that was true for her as well.   
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  • NdelibleNdelible member
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    <~~ ran out of popcorn a LONG time ago....
    Happiness is an inside job
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  • KatieinBklnKatieinBkln member
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    Ndelible said:
    <~~ ran out of popcorn a LONG time ago....
    I know! It's a sad day without popcorn. I also feel like my popcorn was ripped from my fingers when the FFIL +1 thread was deleted. I AM BEREFT OF POPCORN!
    image
    This baby knows exactly how I feel
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  • CMGragainCMGragain member
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    OP. I married a man from a very wealthy and prominent family many years ago.  I never expected them to give us money for our wedding, and they did not.  We had a very simple church ceremony with cake and punch in the Fellowship Hall.
    Please explain to me WHY you think your FI's relatives should give you money for your wedding?  I have never heard of such a thing.
    httpiimgurcomTCCjW0wjpg
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  • jerkyannejerkyanne member
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    OP, changing the name of your post to Nevermind will just draw more attention to it.
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  • Cookie PusherCookie Pusher member
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    ~*~*~*~*~

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  • Liatris2010Liatris2010 mod
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    Did someone call me?
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  • JellyBean52513JellyBean52513 member
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    I think the general ideas are that 1. grown adults making grown adult decisions like planning a wedding should be able and prepared to finance those decisions; 2. if you are being supported financially by your parents for living expenses, it is a bit unfair to ask or expect them to finance any extraneous expenses such as an event like a wedding (that, going back to #1, was your adult decision to make with your adult FI) and it may even place undue burden on them; and 3. It is impolite to ask people for money. 

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  • hellosweetie1015hellosweetie1015 member
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    @themosthappy91

    I just wanted to thank you for owning up to your mistake re: the remark about moving in with parents/(F)ILs. I just came into this thread cus it said Nevermind (OP, I promise I'll get to you with some legitimate, if poor, advice even though you may not even be here any more) and that particular post made me absolutely livid, as the reactions to your own seemed to do to you. 

    FI and I are currently living with my parents. I moved in with them in March, and until the end of July, we were two hours apart. I spent those months driving to him every weekend I could, because my work schedule is a stable 9-5 job with weekends and his was (is) far from it. If he had renewed his lease or moved in with his parents, that would have been our situation until likely right before the wedding in a year (and 38 days!). As my parents already have a house here, it made no sense to rent when we could put back that money to save for a wedding Is it ideal? No. Absolutely not. 

    However, it is better than the alternative. My family recently went through a traumatic experience in which we lost our home of 14 years. I feel very strongly that I was brought home when I was for a reason, and that I need to be here with my mother, but while FI was living away, I felt very much like I was homeless even after we moved into our new house and started to rebuild our lives. Before I moved back, I spent all my time working two jobs and barely making ends meet. Living here, I am able to work one job, split bills with my mother, keep my cell phone on consistently, and still have enough to try and put back a little for our wedding (which, incidentally, both sets of parents have offered to help with, although I know how quickly that could change). And with FI here instead of two hours away, I don't feel quite as much like I'm homeless. So while it sucks to have to move back in (at 26) with my parents, it is far better than the alternative.

    So thank you for apologizing. I'm glad I read through to find it, because I was about set to tear your head off when I read the initial comment.

    OKAY MOVING ON.

    OP, if you're still here, my advice is that yes, for future reference, asking for money is in poor taste. However, that ship has sailed, and thus you have to sail right along with it.

    Your FI's family may not be in as strong a position as your own. Perhaps, if FMIL says something again, have a canned response ready: "we are pricing this specific part of our plan, would you be interested in seeing the quotes we've received?" or something along those lines. It's possible that they legitimately don't know what's up with the wedding world nowadays - was the last wedding they planned their own? Maybe have a few different aspects of the plan ready on different price levels. Talk to your FI, give him a bunch of options from y'all's planning, and ask which ones he would think his parents would be able to pay, and then use his info as a springboard for your ideas. They could pick up stuff for DIY projects, or they could pick up a specific part of the florist bill (ceremony flowers, maybe?) or maybe a part of any rentals. Gauge the waters with FI and go from there.

    I know not having a set idea is a struggle, but you just have to work with what you've got. 

    Sorry your thread got threadjacked. It happens. We don't focus well, haha. (Or... I don't. Probably shouldn't generalize....)
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  • ViczaesarViczaesar member
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    KatieinBkln said:
    Ndelible said:
    <~~ ran out of popcorn a LONG time ago....
    I know! It's a sad day without popcorn. I also feel like my popcorn was ripped from my fingers when the FFIL +1 thread was deleted. I AM BEREFT OF POPCORN!
    According to Sheldon, stale pastry is hollow succor to a man who is bereft of ostrich.  If you think it might be more useful to one who is bereft of popcorn I would be happy to share my cherry poptart with you.



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  • NdelibleNdelible member
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    Viczaesar said:
    KatieinBkln said:
    Ndelible said:
    <~~ ran out of popcorn a LONG time ago....
    I know! It's a sad day without popcorn. I also feel like my popcorn was ripped from my fingers when the FFIL +1 thread was deleted. I AM BEREFT OF POPCORN!
    According to Sheldon, stale pastry is hollow succor to a man who is bereft of ostrich.  If you think it might be more useful to one who is bereft of popcorn I would be happy to share my cherry poptart with you.

    Um, have you got apple?
    Happiness is an inside job
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  • pinklilly122pinklilly122 member
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    I'm a little late to this party. Reading this though just irritated me so much. It must be nice to be able to assume other people will pay for your wedding. And really how incredibly rude to ask. OP your way off base with that. Did your parents offer so you just assumed his would pay too, or did you ask your parents. I missed that part, or maybe forgot after reading all the comments. We never even considered anyone other than us would pay a dime. Did we kinda hope his loaded parents would offer some, sure, they haven't, and we would never think of asking. I don't even grasp how you'd feel so entitled as to actually ask for money for YOUR wedding. I usually fail every piece of etiquette on here but even I know this one.
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