An acceptable reason to get married before the wedding?

PrettyGirlLost

mrs4everhart said:

Fran1985 said:

mrs4everhart said:

 

mrs4everhart said:

jacques27 said:

mrs4everhart said:

LondonLisa said:

I dress up, buy a gift, and take time off to go to a wedding to see friends arrive at a ceremony single and leave married (legally, spiritually, socially). I find it really insulting to people who had JOP weddings. Posters are making it out like you just sign papers. You DO say vows and make lifelong promises in JOP weddings. It doesn't have to be in a church to be meaningful. Of course I understand extenuating circumstances, but if you do not arrive "single" and leave "married" (ie if you cannot turn around halfway through the walk down the aisle and leave without any legal consequences) it isn't a wedding. Doesn't matter if it is the day before or a year before. At least have the decency to let me know so I can decide to go to the reinactment. In many of these cases, I just don't know why they couldn't get married and have a celebration later? Why have a fake white wedding?

 I would marry my Fi in a hessian sack this afternoon and be happy because I'm married to my Fi- I wouldn't want to have a redo because THAT was the moment we became married. Yes, we are planning a big church wedding but I know plans change, why the reinactment?. Why is everyone so entitled to a big white wedding?

Honestly, it is INCREDIBLY insulting to women who chose to get married outside of the church that anything else is just paperwork. The reasons vows are made legitimate is because they are backed by the legal system in which you live. The spiritual is optional based on your world view. 

ETA: Any couple who views making their union valid  for all the benefits of being married (legal, taxes, social recognition, all other married benefits) as just "paperwork" is not a couple I would want to be friends with. I have too many friends worldwide who are fighting for that "paperwork" with same-sex marriage (and frankly not to be killed for being gay and living with their partners) to waste my time with people who would be so flippant about a life changing document. A diploma/ citizenship certificate/ passport  are just "paperwork" that have a lot of loaded meaning behind it and give privileges/ benefits. I could take the citizenship oath to the US and vow to be American, but without the paperwork and documentation, it doesn't mean I am an American citizen. 

Being married is a binary state, one either IS or ISN'T. 

If the bolded is what you believe happens at all courthouse paper signings, you are not correct. When we signed our license, thus becoming legally married, it went just like this:

Enter courthouse. Went through metal detector. Found correct department. Took number. Waited in waiting area. Number eventually called. Approached desk. Let clerk know what we needed. She asked if we were taking the license and returning it within 30 days. We said no, we'd be signing it there. She did some stuff on her computer. We chatted about our lunch options. She returned with some paperwork for us to fill out involving contact info, parent's contact info, place and date of birth, etc. She reviewed the documents we were required to bring (ID, my divorce decree). She did more stuff on her computer. We finalized our lunch plans. She left to print something and returned with two copies of the license. She asked for $35. We paid her. She laid both copies of the licenses down and showed us where to sign. We did. She signed her spot. She kept one, we kept one. She bid us nice afternoon, we went to lunch. At no time were any type of vows exchanged. Nothing of the sort took place. At all. So while yes, there are "courthouse ceremonies" not ALL legally binding marriage paperwork comes with a dose of love and vows. Or anything even close. It was as romantic as getting our passports, or changing my name, and required many of the same documents and similar paperwork. 

So while yes, there are courthouse ceremonies that may bring in elements of let's call them traditional weddings (the vows, the rings, what have you) it's not legally required nor is that type of thing even offered in every jurisdiction. And I know I'm mighty thankful for that. We would have been very uncomfortable with those things taking place that day.  

I'm confused.  The city of Denver forced you to talk about your lunch plans instead of taking a minute while she stepped away from her desk or was busy with the data entry to express a few loving sentiments to each other and make a vow?

My point was that the city of Denver didn't have any fucks to give about what we did or didn't discuss. We just happened to be hungry so we discussed where we were heading for lunch. The fact is LondonLisa is incorrect when she states that ALL j.o.p. weddings / license signings require vows, or any type of promises be spoken. They do not. Other than swearing that the information we provided was correct to the best of our knowledge we could have remained silent. We made "loving sentiments and vows" at our subsequent wedding ceremony. That's why we had one. Self-solemnization doesn't require any form of verbal speech or ceremony, whether at the courthouse or not. I didn't write the laws of Colorado. But I sure do appreciate them! 

So she literally had you sign some papers and boom you're married? No words were exchanged other than"sign here"?  I don't believe that for a second.

----------------------SIB-------------------------------------- That's what self solemnization means: no officiant needed, no witnesses needed, no ceremony needed. The only words "exchanged" were between us and her (the clerk) when we affirmed the information we gave her was true to the best of our knowledge. Had we not wanted to sign it / file it then and there that was as far as we would have needed to go with the clerk. She would have signed her line then we could have left with the license. We would have had 30 days to sign it ourselves, bring it back and file it. You don't have to believe me. You can Google self-solemnized marriage license / Colorado marriage licensing if you're so inclined. I'm used to being an assumed "liar" on TK and I still sleep just fine, but I really can't imagine a good reason to make up the details of self-solemnized marriage licenses. Especially since all one has to do is Google it! So yes, we literally filled some stuff out, paid the fee, signed, then as you said, boom, we were legally married.

Actually it does need a ceremony or an observence- it can just be as small as you want it. Colorado is one of the only states that has a self-solemnizing marriage allowance but you still have to solemnize- there is a reason its not called the self signing marriage or even a self uniting marriage- by definition there is a ceremony or obsevence.  Your ceremony was about lunch but there is no definition of what has to make up the ceremony to count- there doesn't have to be words or vows but there is a serious aspect to it. By law it is not just signing like at the DMV even if it felt like it.

SIB, as usual........................................................................................................................

Yea, if you consider standing at a counter in a clerk's office signing  paperwork a ceremony, go nuts with that. I didn't. Neither did he. So if saying nothing at all is considered a ceremony, it's easily the loosest definition of "ceremony" I've yet to come across. If the state considers standing at a clerk's counter signing paperwork a ceremony, that makes me chuckle, this place really does have some lax rules and regulations. Probably why I love it so much.

thisismynickname said:

I was curious enough to look up Colorado laws and sure enough, a couple can self-solemnize. It's literally just signing the license in a certain way. I learn something new every day. 

I can't help but stir the pot, sorry, sorry!---- I don't see how you can be not "ready to consider ourselves married" but yet be "legally responsible for each other."  I just don't think you get to choose. Insurance? Married! In an accident and on a death bed in a hospital? Married!  Everything else? Not married!  I just don't get it. 

To the bolded: It wasn't up for debate. We made the choice to continue on with our engagement regardless of what the state classified us. So, yea, we chose. It was really a simple process, but it's not for everyone, and I can't say I'd advise to it everyone I meet. But regardless, yes, that's how it can be done here. So no repeat ceremonies for us. Just as we intended.  And yet you used the state's classification to reap health insurance benefits for your husband.  That's convenient, huh?

This is why you piss people off with your glib attitude towards marriage- you were married when it was to your own benefit- health insurance- but what occured at the JOP that made you legally married didn't include vows that were meaningful to you, so you talked yourselves into believing you weren't actually married.

Well I bet the HR department at your company would beg to differ with you, since they added your DH to your health insurance.

I just did this myself.  Guess what?  All HR wanted to see was the document that proved I was actually married. . . a document a lot of people are denied the right to.  HR didn't give a flying rat's ass whether or not we said vows that were meaningful to us at our wedding ceremony.