Ceremony order - breaking the glass

dcbride86

FI is Christian and I'm Jewish, and we are having a friend perform a (mostly) secular ceremony, but we are including some traditions from both sides.  FI is going to step on the glass, but I'm not sure exactly when it should happen - before the vows?  After the vows?  Before the kiss?  After the kiss?

Does anyone have any suggestions?  Thanks!

Maggie0829

I have typically seen the breaking of the glass at the end of the ceremony.  Groom breaks the glass and then the couple shares their first kiss as a married couple.  Since the breaking of the glass is accompanied by a loud cheer of Mazel tov, it would be weird to me to yell congratulations before the couple is officially married.

dcbride86

Thank you @maggie0829 !!  So it should be: (1) vows; (2) glass breaking; (3) pronounce us + kiss?  That's what I was thinking, but I wasn't sure

southernbelle0915

You will find that opinions on non-Jewish people partaking in this Jewish ritual are not favorable. It represents significant struggle of the Jewish people. It's not just a fun/cutesy thing. A lot of guests will probably find this offensive.

One tradition you could do that I cannot possibly imagine getting any side-eyes would be him having both his parents walk him down the aisle. 

Maggie0829

dcbride86 said:

Thank you @maggie0829 !!  So it should be: (1) vows; (2) glass breaking; (3) pronounce us + kiss?  That's what I was thinking, but I wasn't sure

Yup!  I think that is a great sequence for your ceremony.  Oh and don't forget exchanging of rings if you are doing that.  So...

1) vows

2) rings

3) glass breaking

4) pronouncement and kiss

Jen4948

If you're going to do the glass-breaking, then it happens towards the end of the ceremony-after the pronouncement and kiss, not before.  (At a Jewish wedding there is no public kiss, but that's another story.)

It is true that some Jews may not take well to a glass-breaking ceremony happening at a non-Jewish or interfaith wedding, because although there is a superstition that breaking the glass represents luck, it actually is done to commemorate the destruction of the Temples in Jerusalem and as a reminder that life includes sorrow as well as joy.  PPs are correct that it is not a "cute thing to do," nor is it a bonding ritual.

dcbride86

southernbelle0915 said:

You will find that opinions on non-Jewish people partaking in this Jewish ritual are not favorable. It represents significant struggle of the Jewish people. It's not just a fun/cutesy thing. A lot of guests will probably find this offensive.

One tradition you could do that I cannot possibly imagine getting any side-eyes would be him having both his parents walk him down the aisle. 

...But I am Jewish.  I know FI isn't, but this is pretty common at mixed faith ceremonies.  My dad (not Jewish) did it, the mixed faith wedding I went to had it, and the mixed-faith weddings my parents have been to have all had it.  I understand it's not a fun/cutesy thing.  I want to do it because of what it represents, not to be fun or cutesy.

He's not having either parent walk him down the aisle, actually.  However, I am having both.

dcbride86

Jen4948 said:

If you're going to do the glass-breaking, then it happens towards the end of the ceremony-after the pronouncement and kiss, not before.  (At a Jewish wedding there is no public kiss, but that's another story.)

It is true that some Jews may not take well to a glass-breaking ceremony happening at a non-Jewish or interfaith wedding, because although there is a superstition that breaking the glass represents luck, it actually is done to commemorate the destruction of the Temples in Jerusalem and as a reminder that life includes sorrow as well as joy.  PPs are correct that it is not a "cute thing to do," nor is it a bonding ritual.

Yeah, I know traditional Jewish ceremonies don't have a public kiss, which is why I wasn't sure how to order it.

Again, I really never considered it to be a "cute" thing to do.  I've actually heard of it as common in interfaith weddings, and the Jewish people at my wedding would actually be very surprised if we didn't do it, and might be offended by that.  My family and close family friends would actually take that as me not including or respecting the Jewish traditions.  We're getting married under a chuppa as well, because again, that's another tradition that I want included because of the tradition and what it means.

Jen4948

dcbride86 said:

Jen4948 said:

If you're going to do the glass-breaking, then it happens towards the end of the ceremony-after the pronouncement and kiss, not before.  (At a Jewish wedding there is no public kiss, but that's another story.)

It is true that some Jews may not take well to a glass-breaking ceremony happening at a non-Jewish or interfaith wedding, because although there is a superstition that breaking the glass represents luck, it actually is done to commemorate the destruction of the Temples in Jerusalem and as a reminder that life includes sorrow as well as joy.  PPs are correct that it is not a "cute thing to do," nor is it a bonding ritual.

Yeah, I know traditional Jewish ceremonies don't have a public kiss, which is why I wasn't sure how to order it.

Again, I really never considered it to be a "cute" thing to do.  I've actually heard of it as common in interfaith weddings, and the Jewish people at my wedding would actually be very surprised if we didn't do it, and might be offended by that.  My family and close family friends would actually take that as me not including or respecting the Jewish traditions.  We're getting married under a chuppa as well, because again, that's another tradition that I want included because of the tradition and what it means.

I don't see any problems with a huppah-I think just about any wedding can take place under one, whether it's Jewish or not.  The glass-breaking is specifically Jewish, though.  Do your family and friends understand what it represents?

dcbride86

Jen4948 said:

dcbride86 said:

Jen4948 said:

If you're going to do the glass-breaking, then it happens towards the end of the ceremony-after the pronouncement and kiss, not before.  (At a Jewish wedding there is no public kiss, but that's another story.)

It is true that some Jews may not take well to a glass-breaking ceremony happening at a non-Jewish or interfaith wedding, because although there is a superstition that breaking the glass represents luck, it actually is done to commemorate the destruction of the Temples in Jerusalem and as a reminder that life includes sorrow as well as joy.  PPs are correct that it is not a "cute thing to do," nor is it a bonding ritual.

Yeah, I know traditional Jewish ceremonies don't have a public kiss, which is why I wasn't sure how to order it.

Again, I really never considered it to be a "cute" thing to do.  I've actually heard of it as common in interfaith weddings, and the Jewish people at my wedding would actually be very surprised if we didn't do it, and might be offended by that.  My family and close family friends would actually take that as me not including or respecting the Jewish traditions.  We're getting married under a chuppa as well, because again, that's another tradition that I want included because of the tradition and what it means.

I don't see any problems with a huppah-I think just about any wedding can take place under one, whether it's Jewish or not.  The glass-breaking is specifically Jewish, though.  Do your family and friends understand what it represents?

Yes, they do.  I was raised Jewish and went to a conservative synagogue where I was bat-mitzvah'd.  They understand.  And actually, my family and friends would be more offended if we didn't do the glass breaking ceremony because they would see it as me failing to take part in a meaningful Jewish tradition.  One of my mom's friends daughter's actually didn't do it, and many of the Jews present were surprised and kind of disappointed that she didn't want to take part in such a meaningful tradition

Viczaesar

Jen4948 said:

If you're going to do the glass-breaking, then it happens towards the end of the ceremony-after the pronouncement and kiss, not before.  (At a Jewish wedding there is no public kiss, but that's another story.)

It is true that some Jews may not take well to a glass-breaking ceremony happening at a non-Jewish or interfaith wedding, because although there is a superstition that breaking the glass represents luck, it actually is done to commemorate the destruction of the Temples in Jerusalem and as a reminder that life includes sorrow as well as joy.  PPs are correct that it is not a "cute thing to do," nor is it a bonding ritual.

That's actually an interpretation of the tradition that first arose in the 14th century.  The original story in the Talmud from which the tradition arose says nothing about the Temple.  Mar Bar Ravina (c. 4th c. CE) broke an expensive cup at his son's wedding feast when the rabbis were getting a little too boisterous and rowdy.  Rav Ashi (c. 4th-5th c.) did something similar with a glass cup. 

Jen4948

Viczaesar said:

Jen4948 said:

If you're going to do the glass-breaking, then it happens towards the end of the ceremony-after the pronouncement and kiss, not before.  (At a Jewish wedding there is no public kiss, but that's another story.)

It is true that some Jews may not take well to a glass-breaking ceremony happening at a non-Jewish or interfaith wedding, because although there is a superstition that breaking the glass represents luck, it actually is done to commemorate the destruction of the Temples in Jerusalem and as a reminder that life includes sorrow as well as joy.  PPs are correct that it is not a "cute thing to do," nor is it a bonding ritual.

That's actually an interpretation of the tradition that first arose in the 14th century.  The original story in the Talmud from which the tradition arose says nothing about the Temple.  Mar Bar Ravina (c. 4th c. CE) broke an expensive cup at his son's wedding feast when the rabbis were getting a little too boisterous and rowdy.  Rav Ashi (c. 4th-5th c.) did something similar with a glass cup. 


Regardless, most Jews now understand the tradition as I outlined it in my post above and they will take offense at the glass-breaking done as a "cute" thing or for good luck or a bonding ritual.

dcbride86

Jen4948 said:

Jen4948 said:

If you're going to do the glass-breaking, then it happens towards the end of the ceremony-after the pronouncement and kiss, not before.  (At a Jewish wedding there is no public kiss, but that's another story.)

It is true that some Jews may not take well to a glass-breaking ceremony happening at a non-Jewish or interfaith wedding, because although there is a superstition that breaking the glass represents luck, it actually is done to commemorate the destruction of the Temples in Jerusalem and as a reminder that life includes sorrow as well as joy.  PPs are correct that it is not a "cute thing to do," nor is it a bonding ritual.

That's actually an interpretation of the tradition that first arose in the 14th century.  The original story in the Talmud from which the tradition arose says nothing about the Temple.  Mar Bar Ravina (c. 4th c. CE) broke an expensive cup at his son's wedding feast when the rabbis were getting a little too boisterous and rowdy.  Rav Ashi (c. 4th-5th c.) did something similar with a glass cup. 

Regardless, most Jews now understand the tradition as I outlined it in my post above and they will take offense at the glass-breaking done as a "cute" thing or for good luck or a bonding ritual.

Again, I'm not doing it to be "cute."  I have never considered it to be cutesy or been glib about the ritual.  FI and I have decided that if/when we have kids, we will raise them Jewish, but did not want to have a rabbi or Hebrew because we wanted to ceremony to be more inclusive of his family.

And actually, the interpretation I've heard most is that it's supposed to remind you of how fragile marriage is - so the idea is that your wedding should be as hard to break as it would be to put the glass back together.  But either way, yes I know about the ceremony, and I know how important it is - as do my family and friends (and FI).

Jen4948

dcbride86 said:

Jen4948 said:

Viczaesar said:

Jen4948 said:

If you're going to do the glass-breaking, then it happens towards the end of the ceremony-after the pronouncement and kiss, not before.  (At a Jewish wedding there is no public kiss, but that's another story.)

It is true that some Jews may not take well to a glass-breaking ceremony happening at a non-Jewish or interfaith wedding, because although there is a superstition that breaking the glass represents luck, it actually is done to commemorate the destruction of the Temples in Jerusalem and as a reminder that life includes sorrow as well as joy.  PPs are correct that it is not a "cute thing to do," nor is it a bonding ritual.

That's actually an interpretation of the tradition that first arose in the 14th century.  The original story in the Talmud from which the tradition arose says nothing about the Temple.  Mar Bar Ravina (c. 4th c. CE) broke an expensive cup at his son's wedding feast when the rabbis were getting a little too boisterous and rowdy.  Rav Ashi (c. 4th-5th c.) did something similar with a glass cup. 

Regardless, most Jews now understand the tradition as I outlined it in my post above and they will take offense at the glass-breaking done as a "cute" thing or for good luck or a bonding ritual.

Again, I'm not doing it to be "cute."  I have never considered it to be cutesy or been glib about the ritual.  FI and I have decided that if/when we have kids, we will raise them Jewish, but did not want to have a rabbi or Hebrew because we wanted to ceremony to be more inclusive of his family.

And actually, the interpretation I've heard most is that it's supposed to remind you of how fragile marriage is - so the idea is that your wedding should be as hard to break as it would be to put the glass back together.  But either way, yes I know about the ceremony, and I know how important it is - as do my family and friends (and FI).

Mazel tov to you both. As I noted, the glass-breaking ritual usually occurs at the end of the ceremony.

southernbelle0915

dcbride86 said:

southernbelle0915 said:

You will find that opinions on non-Jewish people partaking in this Jewish ritual are not favorable. It represents significant struggle of the Jewish people. It's not just a fun/cutesy thing. A lot of guests will probably find this offensive.

One tradition you could do that I cannot possibly imagine getting any side-eyes would be him having both his parents walk him down the aisle. 

...But I am Jewish.  I know FI isn't, but this is pretty common at mixed faith ceremonies.  My dad (not Jewish) did it, the mixed faith wedding I went to had it, and the mixed-faith weddings my parents have been to have all had it.  I understand it's not a fun/cutesy thing.  I want to do it because of what it represents, not to be fun or cutesy.

He's not having either parent walk him down the aisle, actually.  However, I am having both.

Just because you're Jewish doesn't mean your opinions on a non-Jewish person breaking the glass are representative of every single Jewish person's opinions. I live in an area with a high-concentration of Jewish people. There are lot of interfaith marriages. In my circles, if the groom isn't Jewish this is a big no-no. 

Saying you know what every single one of your guests may think about this is unrealistic. This is akin to when brides say they're going to do XYZ because "I know none of my guests will be offended". 

Further, even if it is common in your circle, I can't imagine Jews being "offended" because a non-Jewish person doesn't break the glass. "Surprised" (if it's common) maybe. But literally "offended", sounds dramatic.

If you're going to do it, you're going to do it. Just know that reading minds isn't a real thing and some people might side-eye it. 

dcbride86

southernbelle0915 said:

dcbride86 said:

southernbelle0915 said:

You will find that opinions on non-Jewish people partaking in this Jewish ritual are not favorable. It represents significant struggle of the Jewish people. It's not just a fun/cutesy thing. A lot of guests will probably find this offensive.

One tradition you could do that I cannot possibly imagine getting any side-eyes would be him having both his parents walk him down the aisle. 

...But I am Jewish.  I know FI isn't, but this is pretty common at mixed faith ceremonies.  My dad (not Jewish) did it, the mixed faith wedding I went to had it, and the mixed-faith weddings my parents have been to have all had it.  I understand it's not a fun/cutesy thing.  I want to do it because of what it represents, not to be fun or cutesy.

He's not having either parent walk him down the aisle, actually.  However, I am having both.

Just because you're Jewish doesn't mean your opinions on a non-Jewish person breaking the glass are representative of every single Jewish person's opinions. I live in an area with a high-concentration of Jewish people. There are lot of interfaith marriages. In my circles, if the groom isn't Jewish this is a big no-no. 

Saying you know what every single one of your guests may think about this is unrealistic. This is akin to when brides say they're going to do XYZ because "I know none of my guests will be offended". 

Further, even if it is common in your circle, I can't imagine Jews being "offended" because a non-Jewish person doesn't break the glass. "Surprised" (if it's common) maybe. But literally "offended", sounds dramatic.

If you're going to do it, you're going to do it. Just know that reading minds isn't a real thing and some people might side-eye it. 

I never said I knew how every single Jewish person felt.  I said I know how the Jews I'm inviting feel.  I'm not a mind reader, but we aren't having a very big wedding, and the vast majority of the Jews are either family or are a part of 1 of 4 family friend couples.  Of those 4 family friend couples, 3 have married children, most of whom married a non-Jew, and most of whom broke the glass.  The 1 without married children is actually a mixed-faith couple and the husband (who is Jewish) stepped on the glass.  It's certainly possible someone would side-eye it, but I would be rather surprised since I know my guests.

When I said people would be offended, I meant more my family.  My family would be offended - they have told me this, actually.  They have also talked to FI about it, and how happy they are that he is welcoming this important tradition.

I just get a bit annoyed when it seems like people think I'm not "Jewish enough" to partake in a Jewish tradition, or not "Jewish enough" to take it seriously.  I was told my several people I shouldn't have been allowed to have a bat mitzvah because  my dad is not Jewish (although I've been raised Jewish since I was a baby), and that I shouldn't have been allowed to go on a trip to Israel when I was 13.  I'm not saying that's what anyone here was saying, but because of past experiences, that is sometimes what it feels like to me.

Jen4948

We recognize that you are not doing glass-breaking to be "cute" or for any untraditional purpose.

Regarding the interfaith aspect of your wedding, this is my opinion, but if the ceremony is Jewish and at least one of the couple is, it won't offend me.

But because it's a specifically Jewish religious ritual, it would offend me to see it at a non-Jewish ceremony where neither of the couple is Jewish and/or it is done to be "cute" or for good luck or as a "bonding ritual" or some way to "include" children in the ceremony. I know you didn't ask about those things but there have been other posters who have and who insisted that they were going to include a glass-breaking ceremony in their weddings for those purposes even though other posters told them that they would be deeply offending practicing Jews by doing so. So this is for lurkers who are thinking about doing a glass-breaking for non-ritual personal purposes: Don't.

Maggie0829

Jen4948 said:

We recognize that you are not doing glass-breaking to be "cute" or for any untraditional purpose. Regarding the interfaith aspect of your wedding, this is my opinion, but if the ceremony is Jewish and at least one of the couple is, it won't offend me. But because it's a specifically Jewish religious ritual, it would offend me to see it at a non-Jewish ceremony where neither of the couple is Jewish and/or it is done to be "cute" or for good luck or as a "bonding ritual" or some way to "include" children in the ceremony. I know you didn't ask about those things but there have been other posters who have and who insisted that they were going to include a glass-breaking ceremony in their weddings for those purposes even though other posters told them that they would be deeply offending practicing Jews by doing so. So this is for lurkers who are thinking about doing a glass-breaking for non-ritual personal purposes: Don't.

Ugh I remember that.  Disgusting.

OP since you are doing it because it is part of your religion and you understand the meaning behind it and believe in the meaning behind it then I don't see a problem with it.  Trying to create a ceremony that includes both faiths of those involved is definitely like walking a tight rope.  You don't want to offend anyone but yet you also want to include certain aspects that you have a strong belief in.  So as you plan just keep asking yourself "am I doing this because it is part of my beliefs or am I doing this because of pictures and cuteness?"

BlueBirdMB

dcbride86 said:

southernbelle0915 said:

You will find that opinions on non-Jewish people partaking in this Jewish ritual are not favorable. It represents significant struggle of the Jewish people. It's not just a fun/cutesy thing. A lot of guests will probably find this offensive.

One tradition you could do that I cannot possibly imagine getting any side-eyes would be him having both his parents walk him down the aisle. 

...But I am Jewish.  I know FI isn't, but this is pretty common at mixed faith ceremonies.  My dad (not Jewish) did it, the mixed faith wedding I went to had it, and the mixed-faith weddings my parents have been to have all had it.  I understand it's not a fun/cutesy thing.  I want to do it because of what it represents, not to be fun or cutesy.

He's not having either parent walk him down the aisle, actually.  However, I am having both.

This.  I've been to many multi faith ceremonies and seen this.  Nobody was offended.  My family is pretty damn vocal, so I would have heard from someone if they had been offended at some wedding.  

chloe97

BlueBirdMB said:

dcbride86 said:

southernbelle0915 said:

You will find that opinions on non-Jewish people partaking in this Jewish ritual are not favorable. It represents significant struggle of the Jewish people. It's not just a fun/cutesy thing. A lot of guests will probably find this offensive.

One tradition you could do that I cannot possibly imagine getting any side-eyes would be him having both his parents walk him down the aisle. 

...But I am Jewish.  I know FI isn't, but this is pretty common at mixed faith ceremonies.  My dad (not Jewish) did it, the mixed faith wedding I went to had it, and the mixed-faith weddings my parents have been to have all had it.  I understand it's not a fun/cutesy thing.  I want to do it because of what it represents, not to be fun or cutesy.

He's not having either parent walk him down the aisle, actually.  However, I am having both.

This.  I've been to many multi faith ceremonies and seen this.  Nobody was offended.  My family is pretty damn vocal, so I would have heard from someone if they had been offended at some wedding.  

AGREED! OP- don't let other people's opinion's potentially sway you from having the ceremony that you and your FI want. I also have been to 3-4 similar interfaith weddings which involved the breaking of the glass by a non-Jew. Could their be people who are offended that a non-Jewish person is breaking a glass? Sure. These people could be the same people who are offended that you are marrying a non-Jew or that you aren't being married by a Rabbi- the list goes on. Who cares? In the end if your family is okay with the way that you are honoring your heritage, than that is all that matters. Because guess what in the end, your heritage belongs to you and your family. 

BlueBirdMB

And I'd like to add that not only did my Hindu husband break the glass, I participated with bridal Hindu traditions.  These things were important to the two of us and honestly, I don't care if someone was offended.  I don't think they were though.  Of all aspects of our wedding, I get the most compliments about the ceremony.