Etiquette

FI doesn't "get" wedding etiquette..Driving me crazy!

Hey fellow brides.

Just wanted to vent a little here.
I'm getting married in June and having a Catholic church wedding, very big, about 170 guests.
Lately as it gets closer, my FI and I are clashing on what seems like EVERY idea.
Since we've got engaged, I spent a lot of time looking at message boards, blogs, etc. to research wedding etiquette.
We're mostly planning stuff on our own and with his parents.
However, whenever I bring up a "correct" way of doing something, he goes "says who?". I get where he is coming from in a way. It's our wedding, and we can "do what we want" so to speak. However, I don't want to offend anyone with bad etiquette.

For instance, for our rehearsal dinner, I included a plus one to all the bridal party members. He says we don't have to (doesn't want to pay for the food). Then I told him his sister (Bridesmaid) would want to invite her longtime bf. He said ok. I said we can't extend a plus one to only her. He doesn't get it.

Another example, my friend just sent me her wedding invitation, and it included the little cards with wedding registry info on it. I was always told that you don't do this, and won't be doing it for mine. He again argues "says who?"

Also, he's making our invitations, and doesn't want to include an RSVP card, or even one that says to RSVP at our website/phone number. He thinks we should just assume everyone we invite is coming. Again, not true. I thought it was 80% usually. Since we have to give a guest count to our reception hall, we need to know our final total so we only get charged for that amount.

I should mention that every time I mention "etiquette" (man I love that word, huh?) he gets annoyed.

Do you all have any tips for how to approach the subject? His mom and I are getting along great, and they are helping us out financially a lot.
Maybe that is one of the issues? I plan on talking to him later tonight.  I just know we haven't argued this much over the entire 9 years we've been together.

Please tell me I'm not the only one going through this.
:-(




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Re: FI doesn't "get" wedding etiquette..Driving me crazy!

  • CMGragainCMGragain
    5000 Comments 500 Love Its Third Anniversary 25 Answers
    member
    edited February 2015
    Drop the word "etiquette".  Use "good manners and common sense" instead.

    PS.  Catholic wedding invitations are often a little different from other invitations.  Are you having a full mass?  I will be happy to check your wording.
    httpiimgurcomTCCjW0wjpg
    rcher912
  • You may not be able to win this one. Some people just don't care about etiquette. When my brother was told about etiquette issues at the wedding he and his FI were planning he said "if people love us enough they wont care. otherwise they should take their free food and drinks and shove it, or just not come and save us the $100 a head"...And that was how they did their wedding (which was mostly ok...but there were some ticked off guests when the cocktail hour lasted 3 hrs). 

    My advice--pick your battles, and don't ask if you've made up your mind. Tell him and give him room to object without inviting it (e.g. "Hey I designed these invites. Let me know if you have an issue, otherwise they're going to print tomorrow".) That approach works wonders with my FI, and my boss at work ;)
    adk19
  • Just to reiterate: 

    Your FI is kind of right on one point. You need to invite your sister's BF by name to the rehearsal dinner, but that doesn't mean that other wedding party guests who do not have a significant other need to be given a plus one. It is very nice to do, but if your budget does not allow it, it is not necessary. 
    AroundTheBlockshort+sassy
  • thisismynicknamethisismynickname City By The Lake
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary First Answer
    member
    No further advice than what PPs have already said, but yes, I was in your boat!

    My husband was all about the B list. "Everyone has already gotten married. Everyone does it, they know how guest lists and budgets work." I pointed out that being a second choice friend doesn't feel good, so either they were getting invited right off the bat or not at all. 
    He also backfilled the spot of a groomsman that quit. But his replacement attendant was his best female friend, and she seemed totally thrilled, so even though I thought it was going to be a disaster it wasn't after all. 
    He wanted to have surf and turf while everyone else had just turf, because he was the groom and could have whatever he wanted. I talked him off the ledge with, "what if other people want surf and turf??"

    Just keep reiterating, "How do you think that makes people feel?" and maybe you'll get through to him! Good luck! 
    ________________________________


  • Jen4948Jen4948 Houston
    10000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary 5 Answers
    member
    Rather than use the word "etiquette," tell him what the consequences would be of not following it in specific points: You don't include registry cards in invitations because it makes you look greedy and entitled. You invite couples together or you hurt feelings and risk the ending of friendships and it makes you look bad. Don't give him the chance to ask "Says who?"

  • Please tell me I'm not the only one going through this.
    :-(




    You are definitely not the only one :( My DF does a lot of the same things. He is still convinced that a partial open bar is entirely acceptable (but was willing to give in to make me happy/make me shut up). He also has no problems with PPDs/multiple "receptions" for the same couple. He definitely has the attitude that "everyone else does it so it must be ok."

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  • AuroraRose41AuroraRose41 New York
    500 Love Its 1000 Comments Second Anniversary Name Dropper
    member
    PP's covered a lot of it, but I have one thing to add. My FI was very similar to yours too at first, rolling his eyes at me when something would annoy me related to other's weddings and poor etiquette. And then we went to 3 this past year that all had etiquette mistakes, and he started complaining about them. Only then did he realize why it was important. Now he is also very interested in hosting everybody properly :).

    What about asking your FI if he ever felt uncomfortable at someone else's wedding and why he felt that way? Or bring up a wedding that you two attended together where you guys were uncomfortable with something to open up the discussion. And ask him how he would feel if he were the guest in that situation if he has never experienced it before. 

    short+sassy
  • marie2785marie2785
    100 Love Its 100 Comments First Anniversary Name Dropper
    member
    edited February 2015
    marie2785 said:
    You may not be able to win this one. Some people just don't care about etiquette. When my brother was told about etiquette issues at the wedding he and his FI were planning he said "if people love us enough they wont care. otherwise they should take their free food and drinks and shove it, or just not come and save us the $100 a head"...And that was how they did their wedding (which was mostly ok...but there were some ticked off guests when the cocktail hour lasted 3 hrs). 

    My advice--pick your battles, and don't ask if you've made up your mind. Tell him and give him room to object without inviting it (e.g. "Hey I designed these invites. Let me know if you have an issue, otherwise they're going to print tomorrow".) That approach works wonders with my FI, and my boss at work ;)
    If your FI says this (which many people who don't want to follow etiquette do say), ask him why he'd be willing to take advantage of their love like that. Someone loving you anyway is not a good excuse to treat them poorly. Why look to find the bare minimum that your friends and family will put up with? Why not go above and beyond? If you love them, you should want to make sure they have a great time.

    I think you misread my post. I said my brother and his fiancee. "He and His fiancee" were the words I used. My fiancé has never said that. If my fiancé said this I'd call him a selfish *insert terrible word* but thats because I'd have way less self control than I should sometimes ;).
  • flantasticflantastic The Midwest
    1000 Comments 500 Love Its Third Anniversary First Answer
    member
    marie2785 said:
    marie2785 said:
    You may not be able to win this one. Some people just don't care about etiquette. When my brother was told about etiquette issues at the wedding he and his FI were planning he said "if people love us enough they wont care. otherwise they should take their free food and drinks and shove it, or just not come and save us the $100 a head"...And that was how they did their wedding (which was mostly ok...but there were some ticked off guests when the cocktail hour lasted 3 hrs). 

    My advice--pick your battles, and don't ask if you've made up your mind. Tell him and give him room to object without inviting it (e.g. "Hey I designed these invites. Let me know if you have an issue, otherwise they're going to print tomorrow".) That approach works wonders with my FI, and my boss at work ;)
    If your FI says this (which many people who don't want to follow etiquette do say), ask him why he'd be willing to take advantage of their love like that. Someone loving you anyway is not a good excuse to treat them poorly. Why look to find the bare minimum that your friends and family will put up with? Why not go above and beyond? If you love them, you should want to make sure they have a great time.

    I think you misread my post. I said my brother and his fiancee. "He and His fiancee" were the words I used. My fiancé has never said that. If my fiancé said this I'd call him a selfish *insert terrible word* but thats because I'd have way less self control than I should sometimes ;).
    Nope, I knew you were talking about your brother. I was addressing the OP, which was not clear. Sorry if I insulted you!

    Anniversary

  • behsco90behsco90 Oregon
    100 Love Its Third Anniversary 100 Comments Name Dropper
    member

    Please tell me I'm not the only one going through this.
    :-(




    You are definitely not the only one :( My DF does a lot of the same things. He is still convinced that a partial open bar is entirely acceptable (but was willing to give in to make me happy/make me shut up). He also has no problems with PPDs/multiple "receptions" for the same couple. He definitely has the attitude that "everyone else does it so it must be ok."
    Ugh this is so my FI.  He believes that we can host beer and wine and sig drinks, and let people pay for other alcoholic drinks if they want to.  He thinks it's okay because if we don't let people drink alcohol if they choose, then they will be upset and they would be fine paying for their drinks.

    He even talked to one of our co-workers about it, and our co-worker agreed with him and said he would be fine paying for his drinks.

    I feel like banging my head against a wall when I try to explain stuff to him.

    He also found no problem with the fact that my cousin sent one invite to my parents' house and included my FI and I on the invitation....
    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • My fiancé and his mother have similarly tried to disregard etiquette on a few points. With my fiancé I've had success simply telling him that even if he doesn't care that being polite is very important to me. This wedding is about both of us and it is very important to me that we make our guests comfortable and properly hosted. Regarding inviting partners, consider asking how he would feel if your positions were reversed and you were invited but he was left out. Sometimes people don't automatically consider other people's feelings so if you can shift his thinking maybe he will understand. Good luck. Stay strong and be firm about treating your guests properly. And know you're not alone.
  • You are definitely not alone! Every time I tell FI that we can't do x because it's not proper etiquette, he responds, "says who? Emily Post?!" -____-

    He was pretty irritated when our longtime friends addressed our invitation to "Mr. John Doe and Guest" instead of including my name (we hang out with them probably ever other week, so they definitely know my name). My best defense has been reminding him of how things like that made him feel.

    Good luck and stay firm!
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    weddingcactus
  • KahlylaKahlyla Moncton, NB
    Ninth Anniversary 500 Love Its 100 Comments Name Dropper
    member
    Now, if this were me I would have a good answer for this, because my husband watched me pore over an enormous, weighty Miss Manners tome for MONTHS, all the while reading him hilarious, clever, and on-point passages. If he asked me such a thing, I would legit answer, "says Miss Manners, that's who!" ("na na na boo boo" optional) and he would have to concede that she wins, because well, if you read her work, you'll see that she wins at everything. You know, life and such. Manners especially.

    Which may not be all that helpful, but what I mean is, can you explain to him that you've been reading and researching these things and have come to realize that the rules of polite society matter very much to you and are ones that you would really like to demonstrate in your life together? He can argue with the invisible internet etiquette police all he likes but if you tell him that you believe strongly in these things and they mean a lot to you (and will mean a lot to many of your guests) and you want to put your very best foot forward as you start your marriage, he should appreciate and respect that.

    And yeah, the RSVP stuff is logistics - you need that information!
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    adk19thisismynickname
  • edited February 2015
    @ flantastic

    I wish I could hug you right now. Haha.
    I agree with everything you just said. Appreciate the advice!!


  • Thanks everyone for taking the time to comment with advice. I love this site! Haha.

    Anyway, I did sit down and talk to him. Turns out, he is having a very stressful time at work with all these new systems and practices changing. Every time he talks to his boss, they don't understand his ideas. So now it's all making sense. I'm hounding him about "standards, practices" etc, and so is his job. I'm glad he finally told me a little bit about what was going on.

    After we talked, I think he understands that it's not something I came up with.
    These practices are still valid, and we don't want to offend anyone. I even kept using the word "manners" instead of etiquette like another poster suggested.

    We are doing RSVP cards now, but we are just going to say "RSVP to either our email or phone numbers by such and such date". That way we save a stamp for the reply card, and I think it's a cool modern thing to do.
    Also, when he saw my friend's invitation and realized she misspelled his name, and even the GROOM's name on the invitation itself, he was beside himself. I think he is going to make sure ours look very professional now. Ha.
     :D
    As far as the plus ones for the rehearsal dinner, we are just going to do plus ones for the people with a long time boyfriend/girlfriend that we personally know. Just like for the wedding invitation.

    I'm still holding my ground about the wedding registry info. He still thinks people won't know, but they will since I already had a bridal shower that had the info on it. I'm still having another one from his side of the family, so they will all know as well. Plus there is word of mouth, and our wedding website.

    One more thing, we had our wedding cake consultation the other day, and we made a decision on the design and all four flavors without arguing once. Score! :)

    Thanks again for all the advice. Good luck to all you girls!

    abcdevonn
  • levioosalevioosa Southern California
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its Third Anniversary 5 Answers
    member
    Thanks everyone for taking the time to comment with advice. I love this site! Haha.

    Anyway, I did sit down and talk to him. Turns out, he is having a very stressful time at work with all these new systems and practices changing. Every time he talks to his boss, they don't understand his ideas. So now it's all making sense. I'm hounding him about "standards, practices" etc, and so is his job. I'm glad he finally told me a little bit about what was going on.

    After we talked, I think he understands that it's not something I came up with.
    These practices are still valid, and we don't want to offend anyone. I even kept using the word "manners" instead of etiquette like another poster suggested.

    We are doing RSVP cards now, but we are just going to say "RSVP to either our email or phone numbers by such and such date". That way we save a stamp for the reply card, and I think it's a cool modern thing to do.
    Also, when he saw my friend's invitation and realized she misspelled his name, and even the GROOM's name on the invitation itself, he was beside himself. I think he is going to make sure ours look very professional now. Ha.
     :D
    As far as the plus ones for the rehearsal dinner, we are just going to do plus ones for the people with a long time boyfriend/girlfriend that we personally know. Just like for the wedding invitation.

    I'm still holding my ground about the wedding registry info. He still thinks people won't know, but they will since I already had a bridal shower that had the info on it. I'm still having another one from his side of the family, so they will all know as well. Plus there is word of mouth, and our wedding website.

    One more thing, we had our wedding cake consultation the other day, and we made a decision on the design and all four flavors without arguing once. Score! :)

    Thanks again for all the advice. Good luck to all you girls!

    I'm glad this went well, but you really shouldn't do the bolded. There are many people on this site who got engaged within a few months, and were therefore very serious pretty quickly.

    It's basically saying to those people that you're judging your relationship for them, and that if you don't know their significant other, you don't really care whether they get to spend time celebrating your love and commitment with the person they love. You need to invite all the boyfriends and girlfriends of however long, by name.

    "Plus ones" are only a courtesy that you give to your single guests. These longterm boyfriends and girlfriends are definitely not plus ones.

    Ditto this. 


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    adk19
  • esstee33esstee33 Pittsburgh
    Ninth Anniversary 1000 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    member
    edited July 2015
    Thanks everyone for taking the time to comment with advice. I love this site! Haha.

    Anyway, I did sit down and talk to him. Turns out, he is having a very stressful time at work with all these new systems and practices changing. Every time he talks to his boss, they don't understand his ideas. So now it's all making sense. I'm hounding him about "standards, practices" etc, and so is his job. I'm glad he finally told me a little bit about what was going on.

    After we talked, I think he understands that it's not something I came up with.
    These practices are still valid, and we don't want to offend anyone. I even kept using the word "manners" instead of etiquette like another poster suggested.

    We are doing RSVP cards now, but we are just going to say "RSVP to either our email or phone numbers by such and such date". That way we save a stamp for the reply card, and I think it's a cool modern thing to do.
    Also, when he saw my friend's invitation and realized she misspelled his name, and even the GROOM's name on the invitation itself, he was beside himself. I think he is going to make sure ours look very professional now. Ha.
     :D
    As far as the plus ones for the rehearsal dinner, we are just going to do plus ones for the people with a long time boyfriend/girlfriend that we personally know. Just like for the wedding invitation.

    I'm still holding my ground about the wedding registry info. He still thinks people won't know, but they will since I already had a bridal shower that had the info on it. I'm still having another one from his side of the family, so they will all know as well. Plus there is word of mouth, and our wedding website.

    One more thing, we had our wedding cake consultation the other day, and we made a decision on the design and all four flavors without arguing once. Score! :)

    Thanks again for all the advice. Good luck to all you girls!
    No no no no no no no. Nooooooo. Everyone who has a partner, whether you've met them or not, must be invited with that partner. 

    Please see my previous response to you regarding the difference between partners of invited guests and "plus ones." They're not the same thing. 
    image
    SP29adk19
  • I think a lot of people who are young and from families that do not do much entertaining, do not see the point of all the agreed on rules.

    That it came for your FI at the same time as work was changing routine practices, must have seemed like a conspiracy to make him crazy. Poor FI.
  • CMGragain said:
    Drop the word "etiquette".  Use "good manners and common sense" instead.

    PS.  Catholic wedding invitations are often a little different from other invitations.  Are you having a full mass?  I will be happy to check your wording.
    Yeah we are having a full mass. I've looked at templates online so far, but we don't have them started yet. Once I do I'll probably post it here. Thank you!


    rcher912
  • Thanks everyone for taking the time to comment with advice. I love this site! Haha.

    Anyway, I did sit down and talk to him. Turns out, he is having a very stressful time at work with all these new systems and practices changing. Every time he talks to his boss, they don't understand his ideas. So now it's all making sense. I'm hounding him about "standards, practices" etc, and so is his job. I'm glad he finally told me a little bit about what was going on.

    After we talked, I think he understands that it's not something I came up with.
    These practices are still valid, and we don't want to offend anyone. I even kept using the word "manners" instead of etiquette like another poster suggested.

    We are doing RSVP cards now, but we are just going to say "RSVP to either our email or phone numbers by such and such date". That way we save a stamp for the reply card, and I think it's a cool modern thing to do.
    Also, when he saw my friend's invitation and realized she misspelled his name, and even the GROOM's name on the invitation itself, he was beside himself. I think he is going to make sure ours look very professional now. Ha.
     :D
    As far as the plus ones for the rehearsal dinner, we are just going to do plus ones for the people with a long time boyfriend/girlfriend that we personally know. Just like for the wedding invitation.

    I'm still holding my ground about the wedding registry info. He still thinks people won't know, but they will since I already had a bridal shower that had the info on it. I'm still having another one from his side of the family, so they will all know as well. Plus there is word of mouth, and our wedding website.

    One more thing, we had our wedding cake consultation the other day, and we made a decision on the design and all four flavors without arguing once. Score! :)

    Thanks again for all the advice. Good luck to all you girls!
    FFS, for someone who came on here bitching about someone else not getting etiquette you are planning on making one of the biggest etiquette mistakes. Please don't do this. INVITE ALL SIGNIFICANT OTHERS! Is this really that hard? It doesn't matter if you know them, it doesn't matter how long they've been together - all that matters is if they consider themselves to be in a relationship, if they do then include their SO.
    I guess I should have been more clear.
    Everyone that I know is dating someone is invited. I guess I shouldn't say PLUS ONE, just guest.
    My brothers who are in the wedding and two groomsmen do NOT have a SO, or anyone that they will bring as a date. So I'm just inviting them.

    I just meant originally FI wanted JUST the bridal party.

    So, really it's still going to be that, but the SO are now just included as guests.

    Thanks for your input, but there was really no need to be so rude.


  • flantasticflantastic The Midwest
    1000 Comments 500 Love Its Third Anniversary First Answer
    member
    Thanks everyone for taking the time to comment with advice. I love this site! Haha.

    Anyway, I did sit down and talk to him. Turns out, he is having a very stressful time at work with all these new systems and practices changing. Every time he talks to his boss, they don't understand his ideas. So now it's all making sense. I'm hounding him about "standards, practices" etc, and so is his job. I'm glad he finally told me a little bit about what was going on.

    After we talked, I think he understands that it's not something I came up with.
    These practices are still valid, and we don't want to offend anyone. I even kept using the word "manners" instead of etiquette like another poster suggested.

    We are doing RSVP cards now, but we are just going to say "RSVP to either our email or phone numbers by such and such date". That way we save a stamp for the reply card, and I think it's a cool modern thing to do.
    Also, when he saw my friend's invitation and realized she misspelled his name, and even the GROOM's name on the invitation itself, he was beside himself. I think he is going to make sure ours look very professional now. Ha.
     :D
    As far as the plus ones for the rehearsal dinner, we are just going to do plus ones for the people with a long time boyfriend/girlfriend that we personally know. Just like for the wedding invitation.

    I'm still holding my ground about the wedding registry info. He still thinks people won't know, but they will since I already had a bridal shower that had the info on it. I'm still having another one from his side of the family, so they will all know as well. Plus there is word of mouth, and our wedding website.

    One more thing, we had our wedding cake consultation the other day, and we made a decision on the design and all four flavors without arguing once. Score! :)

    Thanks again for all the advice. Good luck to all you girls!
    FFS, for someone who came on here bitching about someone else not getting etiquette you are planning on making one of the biggest etiquette mistakes. Please don't do this. INVITE ALL SIGNIFICANT OTHERS! Is this really that hard? It doesn't matter if you know them, it doesn't matter how long they've been together - all that matters is if they consider themselves to be in a relationship, if they do then include their SO.
    I guess I should have been more clear.
    Everyone that I know is dating someone is invited. I guess I shouldn't say PLUS ONE, just guest.
    My brothers who are in the wedding and two groomsmen do NOT have a SO, or anyone that they will bring as a date. So I'm just inviting them.

    I just meant originally FI wanted JUST the bridal party.

    So, really it's still going to be that, but the SO are now just included as guests.

    Thanks for your input, but there was really no need to be so rude.

    Awesome. Yes, it's the terminology which is confusing, plus you made a thing out of "long-term" and "we know them" so it seemed that by qualifying those SOs, you must be excluding some significant others. Beth wasn't really rude - we have a tendency to roll our eyes at anyone who wants to do things "properly" unless their own selfishness gets in the way, which is what that plan sounded like.

    I assume that you're inviting anyone who is dating anyone, for any length of time, to the wedding itself as well. Because that needs to happen. If you're not sure if they're dating someone, call and find out. That's what we had to do for a couple of FI's cousins, and it turned out they were dating someone.

    Anniversary

    thespeshulestsnowflakeadk19
  • LtPowersLtPowers Upstate New York
    Knottie Warrior 100 Love Its 100 Comments Name Dropper
    member

    I assume that you're inviting anyone who is dating anyone, for any length of time, to the wedding itself as well. Because that needs to happen.


    Any length of time? Even a week? That seems impractical. That's why the rule isn't "dating"; it's "social unit".


    Powers  &8^]

    AroundTheBlock
  • flantasticflantastic The Midwest
    1000 Comments 500 Love Its Third Anniversary First Answer
    member
    LtPowers said:

    I assume that you're inviting anyone who is dating anyone, for any length of time, to the wedding itself as well. Because that needs to happen.


    Any length of time? Even a week? That seems impractical. That's why the rule isn't "dating"; it's "social unit".


    Powers  &8^]

    And that's why we've been over this - if they consider themselves a social unit, even after a week, which can be ascertained by asking, then yes.

    Anniversary

    justsieslothiegaladk19
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