How to teach someone etiquette

bizzy592

Hi guys, happy Friday!

Short question (longer story to follow, because you know I can't be succinct). Is there a polite way to explain basic rules of etiquette and courtesy to someone who is tactless at times?

My sister has a history of poor etiquette when it comes to weddings. For example, she:

1. RSVP'd 'no' to a wedding she intended to go to, just so that she could surprise the couple by being there, as she was living on the opposite coast (she also said that her presence was their wedding gift).

2. Invited a date last minute to a wedding where she wasn't given a +1 (called the bride the day before the wedding to tell her about the guest, and called her names when she was told they couldn't accommodate him).

3. Got drunk, yelled at a few people, then hooked up with a groomsman in my car.

4. Invited ~20 people at a house party to attend a wedding reception the next day. Many of them showed up (hometown wedding, everyone knew the couple, but weren't invited).

5. Told me that she's going to be my MOH, because she's my sister, and (if she ever marries) I'll be hers.

So, first off, I'm not having a MOH, because she and I are not close, and I'd rather avoid her tantrums at my choosing someone else. But I want to manage her expectations, and what is and isn't acceptable.

Has anyone ever gifted an etiquette book? I imagine that if I did that straight out, she would be offended (understandably). Any ideas on how I might share that information, without pushing it on her? I know when it comes to the day of, I'll just have to relax and ignore anything that comes up. But my hope is that by cluing her in to some of the basic expectations, it'll go more smoothly.

[Deleted User]

The only rule of ettiquette is, Don't be an Asshole.

bizzy592

Hahaha yeah, she is a total asshole. I don't think it'll go over well if I say that, though.

[Deleted User]

So, now that I finished reading your post, what you do is answer her with that.  Sister: "Oh, you should totally have a 3 hour gap so we can all ride around in the party bus and get wasted before the reception."  You: "No, we're not going to do that because I'm not going to be an asshole."  Sister: "You should totally write Black Tie Optional on the invitation so people dress fancy."  You: "No, we're not going to do that because I'm not going to be an asshole." Sister: "What do you mean you're only offering beer and wine?  Have a cash bar, I'll totally pay for my own Gray Goose. You: "No, we're not going to do that because I'm not going to be an asshole." 

bizzy592

You're so wise, adk.

chibiyui

If she's your sister, I honestly suggest you get her an etiquette book (general, not just wedding etiquette) I'd also include a note to not be an asshole. But I can call my older sister out on bad behavior and vice versa.

SP29

Haha, adk is a smart cookie.

I think that's about all you can do- respond to any comments she makes with a why. 

S: Cash bar! You: This is a reception we are hosting, our guests shouldn't have to open their wallets. 

aliwis000

So seems like your sister is more clueless than malicious.

Good news, she can be helped!

As other posters have mentioned I think you should teach her by example. Since you are getting married she will probably suggest things that are wrong. You simply tell her you will under no circumstance do that and then explain why. It does not have to be in a condescending tone or mean. You just honestly tell her why it is a bad idea. Some people just have a hard time taking the next logical steps on an idea.

If she continues to push after that you just have a good talk with her about why her ideas are not going to work. Now some people might disagree with me but as the oldest of 4 kids I feel I get to take a lot more liberties with what I say to my siblings than I ever would to even my best friend when they tell me things.

For example if my sister outright lied on an RSVP, as you described and told me about it, I would have, without even thinking said something like "Sistername! What are you thinking? That is so rude. You shouldn't do that because (reason/explanation)."

I know adults make their own choices but to me siblings are a different animal. I am not saying I would pry into lives or talk down to them but if my sister openly told me this from her own mouth well that gives me the option to comment.

All you can do is wait for her to say something and then respond in the best grown up/non-confrontational/firm/respectful way you can.

redoryx

While I agree this is all really bad, her saying her presence is their gift isn't in poor taste. Guests are never required to give a gift at a wedding. I mean, if she actually said that to the couple it's kinda tacky but the thought process behind it is not. 

flantastic

redoryx said:

While I agree this is all really bad, her saying her presence is their gift isn't in poor taste. Guests are never required to give a gift at a wedding. I mean, if she actually said that to the couple it's kinda tacky but the thought process behind it is not. 

True, but I think this is more in the sense of "Any inconvenience caused by our lying on our RSVP card and their scramble to accommodate us should just be negated by the JOY they have in actually seeing us!"

bizzy592

flantastic said:

True, but I think this is more in the sense of "Any inconvenience caused by our lying on our RSVP card and their scramble to accommodate us should just be negated by the JOY they have in actually seeing us!"

Yes, this was my issue with it. Rather than acknowledging that her attendance could possibly be construed as anything but joyous, she expected them to be grateful.

So, I agree with the advice so far, and will do my best to respond to any proposed breach of etiquette with an explanation. This is what I've done in the past with her, when she's told me about her brilliant ideas in advance - with moderate success. But is there any way to be more proactive about it?

flantastic

bizzy592 said:

flantastic said:

True, but I think this is more in the sense of "Any inconvenience caused by our lying on our RSVP card and their scramble to accommodate us should just be negated by the JOY they have in actually seeing us!"

Yes, this was my issue with it. Rather than acknowledging that her attendance could possibly be construed as anything but joyous, she expected them to be grateful.

So, I agree with the advice so far, and will do my best to respond to any proposed breach of etiquette with an explanation. This is what I've done in the past with her, when she's told me about her brilliant ideas in advance - with moderate success. But is there any way to be more proactive about it?

I don't really think so. My friend kind of brought up to me, while I was with H, and while other people were arriving, as a means to illustrate that people have different tastes - that she and her FMIL were disagreeing on MOG attire. There wasn't a good way for me to say in that moment, "How did you get involved in that decision in the first place?"

However, I'm having lunch with her today. If it comes up again as a wedding "problem," I'll say that I figured MIL had been dressing herself for 55 years and the most important thing was that she was comfortable, so I didn't try to involve myself in her attire choices at all and everyone was happiest that way. I just try to take the opportunities as they arise.

[Deleted User]

I think you need to be honest with her as she does stuff and say hey, don't be made at Jane becuase she couldn't accomodate a last minute date. She already had her seating chart made up, favors accounted for and a head count into the venue. Also if she could have afforded to give you a plus one, it would have been on the invitation. It's not like adding an extra guest is only $20.00. It can range from $70+ per person depending on the venue.

I mean it really sounds like she doesn't understand that financial impact that extra guests make at a wedding. She needs to be explained that.

And as for your wedding, I'm thinking elopment or you're invited to a party at our home or resturant when everyone gets there "surprise, it's our wedding," You can fill in your parents in advance if they promise not to tell her.

bizzy592

Erikan73 said:

And as for your wedding, I'm thinking elopment or you're invited to a party at our home or resturant when everyone gets there "surprise, it's our wedding," You can fill in your parents in advance if they promise not to tell her.

I'm definitely not eloping, or having a surprise wedding as a preventative measure.

lovegood90

bizzy592 said:

Erikan73 said:

And as for your wedding, I'm thinking elopment or you're invited to a party at our home or resturant when everyone gets there "surprise, it's our wedding," You can fill in your parents in advance if they promise not to tell her.

I'm definitely not eloping, or having a surprise wedding as a preventative measure.

Yeah, that's extreme...