How to politely say...

banana468

MrsMack10612 said:

banana468 said:

MrsMack10612 said:

monkeysip said:

That's really true--I think parents are often the harshest critics of other parents.  I try to always remember that I have no idea what's going on with other families.  

And that's how we treat church with DD too.  If she starts crying, we try to calm her down for a few minutes, and sometimes that works fine.  If it doesn't work, either H or I will take her out.  But a lot of times she's just squirmy and "talking".  To me, that's just kids being kids.  At a really young age, that's normal.  When they get older, of course, you can start teaching them about proper behavior during church.  But I feel like some people act as if kids, even babies, should be silent during church, and if not, they should leave.

I think I'm the one that started the church debate and I just want to clarify, if I hear a little one just being a kid babbling, what's that mommy kind of thing, I have no problem with that.  I'm talking about crying/screaming children.  

FWIW, I really try hard in church to balance this.   When DS is cranky, I try to nurse him / soothe him with a pacifier or let him hold a blanket/book for a bit.   If things escalate, I don't let him drown out the priest but there's a decent chance that you'll hear a potentially negative sound from him.   We try to balance that with a 'we made this go away' with a 'this isn't stopping'.   

First, I'm sorry for your loss.  

I'm glad you are attempting to soothe him, but I can't tell from your response if he gets to the "this isn't stopping" point, do you remove him from the space?  

I get it - babies cry, kids act up, toddlers have meltdowns and generally none of it can be predicted.  My issue is with those parents that just let it disrupt the entire groups experience by not doing anything.  And this is for church, restaurants, movie theatres, whatever.  

Sorry I wasn't clear.   Yes, when we go from the point where nursing, paci, toy, snuggle, book, stand are all unsatisfactory we hand off child to the aisle parent.   Aisle parent gets a chance to soothe for a few moments and then the mutual nod is reached when one parent skedaddles while the other stays with the 4 yo.   The entire process is measured in seconds, but we've been successful at stopping the fussing without leaving.

I am not a fan of listening to a child cry or fuss nonstop in church either.   BUT, I don't think it should be expected that a child is going to be perfect either.   They aren't going to learn HOW to behave if they're not in church in the first place.   DS is too young to grasp the correct behavior but DD was able to start understanding at about 2.5 with what she should and should not do.   She wasn't always perfect but I don't like the notion that children should be seen and not heard...ever.    But parenting needs to take place.    

AddieCake

I'm a firm believer that PEOPLE should be seen and not heard. And I say that only in regards to disturbing others, of course. It's not just kids who disturb others in public. Plenty of adults talk inappropriately, are on cell phones, etc. It's just as annoying as crying or pestering children.

Additionally, it's not only kids who need mom or dad's attention. I have a friend I used to shop with (no longer since moving away), and her husband would call multiple times during our shopping trips (every single time we went) to ask when she'd be home, should he get his own lunch, etc. Dude. Every time we go, we go for all day. You know this. Leave us alone. 

Sorry, I got a little off topic, but still related. I don't want your spouse, mom, client, or anyone interrupting my time with you unnecessarily if we have made plans together. 

TheCheeseWench

STARMOON44 said:

I was actually quoting Cheesewench, not star moon.  Again, I agree there has to be a balance, and it's ok to want alone time with your friends, but I just didn't like the tone of Cheesewench's post

I just love your first sentence. How often do you get to use cheese wench in a sentence in life? Not often enough.

*****
Imagine how much fun it is watching stuffy Oklahoma TV anchors have to call you that on live TV. Especially when they are just reading the teleprompter and weren't already expecting it. I had one look to her producer and ask "You really want me to call her that?" Last year after participating on an advisory panel for some young professionals forum put on by the Lt. Governor, he came up to the table to thank all of the panelists. He got to me and said "and thanks to My Name, The Cheese....well, I'm not going to say that word." Oy. I may as well have just gone with Cheese Whore according to some of these people.

MrsMack10612

I don't expect children to be perfect.  I have enough experience with the children in my family at all ages that children and their moods are unpredictable.  To me this is all about the parents who don't consider those around them in that situation.  Too often I see what appears to parents (church or other location) who seem to tune out the fussing and crying and tantrums and do not seem to make even the slightest effort to calm the child.  I wish I was stretching the truth, but I have seen this.

As I said early, I'm not really a proponent of the seen and not heard theory, to me the way I interpret it has to do with how I was brought up with the concept of adult space.  Not all places & situations are child friendly. I can remember, we would go visit my paternal grandparents.  They had a tall chest of drawers in their living room.  The bottom drawer contained toys for the grandkids. When we got to the house, you said your hellos, maybe got a glass of milk and a cookie and then found something to play with out of the drawer.  You then played quietly while the grown ups talked.  If you didn't want to play, you sat quietly on the lap (or next to) one of the adults while they continued to talk. You didn't pester, you didn't nudge, you didn't whine. 

I hear stories from PPs about their friends children who are permitted to run rampant in their non-kid friendly, non-kid proofed homes with parents who don't do anything or get pissy when you tell their child not to do something.

Perhaps my parents were strict in their expectations, but I would rather have that then the above.

teddygirl9

I remember being on multiple plane rides and having babies crying for most/all the flight, and BF (and me too, childless) would get so frustrated. I had remembered reading that they can't pop their ears, so it's painful, so they cry, blah blah. Then one plane ride BF was sick and his ears wouldn't pop. He was almost crying on the plane it was so painful! He now doesn't get mad when there are kids crying on planes because he knows how much it hurts haha.

lyndausvi

Like everything in life there needs to be a balance.  I feel like I'm pretty supportive to my friends who are parents.  However, I do not always feel it's reciprocated.   

 Sometimes you need your friend's undivided attention.  That is virtually impossible with an awake toddler in the room.  It's just life. Toddlers are "needy".  They just are.    I will admit when I need a serious adult conversation I would pick my child-free friend or the friend who will not bring the kid over the mom who brings their kids everywhere.   

I do not think that makes me a bad friend.    There are many times where hanging out with the kids are perfectly fine and suitable. But sometimes, yeah, I need to be able to have conservation with a friend that is not interrupted a billion times.

MyNameIsNot

teddygirl9 said:

I remember being on multiple plane rides and having babies crying for most/all the flight, and BF (and me too, childless) would get so frustrated. I had remembered reading that they can't pop their ears, so it's painful, so they cry, blah blah. Then one plane ride BF was sick and his ears wouldn't pop. He was almost crying on the plane it was so painful! He now doesn't get mad when there are kids crying on planes because he knows how much it hurts haha.

To me, this was really unfair of him. I'm glad he changed his tune. Even without knowing that babies can't pop their ears, he should have been able to recognize that there is literally no where the parent can go and not much they can do. In church/restaurant/store, you can remove the child from the situation if you can't console him/her. In a plane, you can't exactly step out onto the wing. 

teddygirl9

MyNameIsNot said:

teddygirl9 said:

I remember being on multiple plane rides and having babies crying for most/all the flight, and BF (and me too, childless) would get so frustrated. I had remembered reading that they can't pop their ears, so it's painful, so they cry, blah blah. Then one plane ride BF was sick and his ears wouldn't pop. He was almost crying on the plane it was so painful! He now doesn't get mad when there are kids crying on planes because he knows how much it hurts haha.

To me, this was really unfair of him. I'm glad he changed his tune. Even without knowing that babies can't pop their ears, he should have been able to recognize that there is literally no where the parent can go and not much they can do. In church/restaurant/store, you can remove the child from the situation if you can't console him/her. In a plane, you can't exactly step out onto the wing. 

That's what makes it more frustrating - that they CAN'T go anywhere. Even in other environments, if the parents wont leave, we can. So, it's the same on the plane lol. It might not be fair, but it's still annoying. Now its still annoying, he just feels sad for the kid, less frustrated.

Liatris2010

I have maintained some friendships with new parents and jettisoned others. It depends on how close we were before and to what degree being a parent has changed them.

The jettisoned friends did things including:
1. Thrusting their baby into my arms after I declined to hold him and then refused to take him back.
2. During dinner, loudly note that I didn't seem interested in the baby, and then hover over me holding him while snot dripped into his mouth and drool dripped down his chin, and I lost my appetite.
3. Do nothing while toddler sticks dirty hands in everyone's food, knocks things over, etc.
4. Endlessly drone on about how non-parents cannot appreciate, life, love, learning new things, or anything else because we can't understand until we have children.

I only want to be friends with people who respect my personal space, my home, and my choices. If becoming a parent has changed that about you, we can't be friends anymore. It isn't about your decision to have kids, it is about your decision to thrust your choices on me.

I have parent friends who always let us know beforehand if their kids would have to come too, do their best to ensure good behavior from their kids, and don't rant about how parenthood is the only path to a life worth living. I will keep those friends forever because they continue to behave like good friends.

redwoodoriginal

lyndausvi said:

Like everything in life there needs to be a balance.  I feel like I'm pretty supportive to my friends who are parents.  However, I do not always feel it's reciprocated.   

 Sometimes you need your friend's undivided attention.  That is virtually impossible with an awake toddler in the room.  It's just life. Toddlers are "needy".  They just are.    I will admit when I need a serious adult conversation I would pick my child-free friend or the friend who will not bring the kid over the mom who brings their kids everywhere.   

I do not think that makes me a bad friend.    There are many times where hanging out with the kids are perfectly fine and suitable. But sometimes, yeah, I need to be able to have conservation with a friend that is not interrupted a billion times.

THIS ^^^^. QFT. and (i know this convo has deviated from the OP) but this is why I was so bothered by my friend suddenly adding in her child. FTR, we chatted a little, and she admitted she wasn't going to bring him until she realized either it was with him or she'd have to flake on me again b/c her H was not going to watch the kid. I just wish she had given me the option up front - because I would have opted to reschedule, because I want to talk to HER, not be distracted by a toddler who can't sit still.

Maggie0829

Liatris2010 said:

I have maintained some friendships with new parents and jettisoned others. It depends on how close we were before and to what degree being a parent has changed them.

The jettisoned friends did things including:
1. Thrusting their baby into my arms after I declined to hold him and then refused to take him back.
2. During dinner, loudly note that I didn't seem interested in the baby, and then hover over me holding him while snot dripped into his mouth and drool dripped down his chin, and I lost my appetite.
3. Do nothing while toddler sticks dirty hands in everyone's food, knocks things over, etc.
4. Endlessly drone on about how non-parents cannot appreciate, life, love, learning new things, or anything else because we can't understand until we have children.

I only want to be friends with people who respect my personal space, my home, and my choices. If becoming a parent has changed that about you, we can't be friends anymore. It isn't about your decision to have kids, it is about your decision to thrust your choices on me.

I have parent friends who always let us know beforehand if their kids would have to come too, do their best to ensure good behavior from their kids, and don't rant about how parenthood is the only path to a life worth living. I will keep those friends forever because they continue to behave like good friends.

The bolded so much.  I cannot stand parents who think that since because I am childless that I cannot be nearly as busy or stressed or overwhelmed by life as they are.

Liatris2010

Maggie0829 said:

Liatris2010 said:

I have maintained some friendships with new parents and jettisoned others. It depends on how close we were before and to what degree being a parent has changed them.

The jettisoned friends did things including:
1. Thrusting their baby into my arms after I declined to hold him and then refused to take him back.
2. During dinner, loudly note that I didn't seem interested in the baby, and then hover over me holding him while snot dripped into his mouth and drool dripped down his chin, and I lost my appetite.
3. Do nothing while toddler sticks dirty hands in everyone's food, knocks things over, etc.
4. Endlessly drone on about how non-parents cannot appreciate, life, love, learning new things, or anything else because we can't understand until we have children.

I only want to be friends with people who respect my personal space, my home, and my choices. If becoming a parent has changed that about you, we can't be friends anymore. It isn't about your decision to have kids, it is about your decision to thrust your choices on me.

I have parent friends who always let us know beforehand if their kids would have to come too, do their best to ensure good behavior from their kids, and don't rant about how parenthood is the only path to a life worth living. I will keep those friends forever because they continue to behave like good friends.

The bolded so much.  I cannot stand parents who think that since because I am childless that I cannot be nearly as busy or stressed or overwhelmed by life as they are.

Yes. It is not a competition. You can be busy, tired, or stressed and be sympathetic to other people who feel the same way, even if you think they have fewer things to be upset about.

But the thing that grinds my gears are the "having a baby is the best thing I ever did, and if you want to do a good thing, it has to be the same thing I did" people.



Getting a PhD was the best thing I ever did. I don't go around telling everyone else they need one too or else they won't know what accomplishment feels like. And if I did, no one would be my friend, and it would be my own damn fault.

loveislouder

MrsMack10612 said:

I don't expect children to be perfect.  I have enough experience with the children in my family at all ages that children and their moods are unpredictable.  To me this is all about the parents who don't consider those around them in that situation.  Too often I see what appears to parents (church or other location) who seem to tune out the fussing and crying and tantrums and do not seem to make even the slightest effort to calm the child.  I wish I was stretching the truth, but I have seen this.

As I said early, I'm not really a proponent of the seen and not heard theory, to me the way I interpret it has to do with how I was brought up with the concept of adult space.  Not all places & situations are child friendly. I can remember, we would go visit my paternal grandparents.  They had a tall chest of drawers in their living room.  The bottom drawer contained toys for the grandkids. When we got to the house, you said your hellos, maybe got a glass of milk and a cookie and then found something to play with out of the drawer.  You then played quietly while the grown ups talked.  If you didn't want to play, you sat quietly on the lap (or next to) one of the adults while they continued to talk. You didn't pester, you didn't nudge, you didn't whine. 

I hear stories from PPs about their friends children who are permitted to run rampant in their non-kid friendly, non-kid proofed homes with parents who don't do anything or get pissy when you tell their child not to do something.

Perhaps my parents were strict in their expectations, but I would rather have that then the above.

I'm not a parent, so take what I say wit ha grain of salt.  H and I have talked about our potential parenting skills when/if we actually have a child.  We've agreed that if our kid is screaming at the grocery store because they want a chocolate bar that we're not prepared to buy for them, we're going to let them scream about it. We've told you no, you're not getting it and a temper tantrum isn't going to get us to give in. If that means you scream for 10 minutes while I finish my shopping,  that's what has to happen.   

I was in a grocery store and the store manager went up to a screaming kid and gave him the chocolate bar he wanted and the mom was pissed, and I would have been too.

luckya23

loveislouder said:

MrsMack10612 said:

I don't expect children to be perfect.  I have enough experience with the children in my family at all ages that children and their moods are unpredictable.  To me this is all about the parents who don't consider those around them in that situation.  Too often I see what appears to parents (church or other location) who seem to tune out the fussing and crying and tantrums and do not seem to make even the slightest effort to calm the child.  I wish I was stretching the truth, but I have seen this.

As I said early, I'm not really a proponent of the seen and not heard theory, to me the way I interpret it has to do with how I was brought up with the concept of adult space.  Not all places & situations are child friendly. I can remember, we would go visit my paternal grandparents.  They had a tall chest of drawers in their living room.  The bottom drawer contained toys for the grandkids. When we got to the house, you said your hellos, maybe got a glass of milk and a cookie and then found something to play with out of the drawer.  You then played quietly while the grown ups talked.  If you didn't want to play, you sat quietly on the lap (or next to) one of the adults while they continued to talk. You didn't pester, you didn't nudge, you didn't whine. 

I hear stories from PPs about their friends children who are permitted to run rampant in their non-kid friendly, non-kid proofed homes with parents who don't do anything or get pissy when you tell their child not to do something.

Perhaps my parents were strict in their expectations, but I would rather have that then the above.

I'm not a parent, so take what I say wit ha grain of salt.  H and I have talked about our potential parenting skills when/if we actually have a child.  We've agreed that if our kid is screaming at the grocery store because they want a chocolate bar that we're not prepared to buy for them, we're going to let them scream about it. We've told you no, you're not getting it and a temper tantrum isn't going to get us to give in. If that means you scream for 10 minutes while I finish my shopping,  that's what has to happen.   

I was in a grocery store and the store manager went up to a screaming kid and gave him the chocolate bar he wanted and the mom was pissed, and I would have been too.

Sounds pretty selfish to me.  I would think you would take the kid home and try again later - ideally without Junior.

This attitude is EXACTLY what we were talking about - parents being oblivious to how irritating they are to those around them.

Maggie0829

luckya23 said:

loveislouder said:

MrsMack10612 said:

I don't expect children to be perfect.  I have enough experience with the children in my family at all ages that children and their moods are unpredictable.  To me this is all about the parents who don't consider those around them in that situation.  Too often I see what appears to parents (church or other location) who seem to tune out the fussing and crying and tantrums and do not seem to make even the slightest effort to calm the child.  I wish I was stretching the truth, but I have seen this.

As I said early, I'm not really a proponent of the seen and not heard theory, to me the way I interpret it has to do with how I was brought up with the concept of adult space.  Not all places & situations are child friendly. I can remember, we would go visit my paternal grandparents.  They had a tall chest of drawers in their living room.  The bottom drawer contained toys for the grandkids. When we got to the house, you said your hellos, maybe got a glass of milk and a cookie and then found something to play with out of the drawer.  You then played quietly while the grown ups talked.  If you didn't want to play, you sat quietly on the lap (or next to) one of the adults while they continued to talk. You didn't pester, you didn't nudge, you didn't whine. 

I hear stories from PPs about their friends children who are permitted to run rampant in their non-kid friendly, non-kid proofed homes with parents who don't do anything or get pissy when you tell their child not to do something.

Perhaps my parents were strict in their expectations, but I would rather have that then the above.

I'm not a parent, so take what I say wit ha grain of salt.  H and I have talked about our potential parenting skills when/if we actually have a child.  We've agreed that if our kid is screaming at the grocery store because they want a chocolate bar that we're not prepared to buy for them, we're going to let them scream about it. We've told you no, you're not getting it and a temper tantrum isn't going to get us to give in. If that means you scream for 10 minutes while I finish my shopping,  that's what has to happen.   

I was in a grocery store and the store manager went up to a screaming kid and gave him the chocolate bar he wanted and the mom was pissed, and I would have been too.

Sounds pretty selfish to me.  I would think you would take the kid home and try again later - ideally without Junior.

This attitude is EXACTLY what we were talking about - parents being oblivious to how irritating they are to those around them.

I kind of agree with this.  I mean would you allow your kid to scream for 10-15 minutes in a restaurant because you wouldn't allow little Johnnie to have chocolate cake for lunch?

MrsMack10612

@luckya23 - when my nephew would throw a temper tantrum in a store, whether it was just he & I or I was with my sister, we would leave our carriage where it was (sorry store workers), my sister would take the carrier with my niece and my nephew would get put over my shoulder like a sack of potatoes and we promptly exit the store.

Continuing to shop with a screaming, tantruming child is not good for any of us - me, my sister, the kids, the staff in the store or the other patrons.

ETF words

Maggie0829

I would also like to add to what I wrote above, that if you are at home and tell little Johnnie no he can't have a candy bar and he screams then fine, let him scream.  But you also need to teach him how he should behave out in public and that screaming because he doesn't get what he wants is not appropriate when you are at the food store or restaurant or any other public place.  So being fine with allowing your child to scream out in public is irresponsible on your part as a hypothetical parent because you are not teaching him or her how to properly behave when told no.

lyndausvi

When a patron's kids screams for 10-15 minutes they rarely complain directly to the parent(s).  Nope, they complain to the staff or manager.   While I would NEVER offer food to a child without the parents permission, I'm certainly going to see what I can do to diffuse the situation.

A happy 3 year is a happy store/restaurant/boat/whatever.  

loveislouder

luckya23 said:

loveislouder said:

MrsMack10612 said:

I don't expect children to be perfect.  I have enough experience with the children in my family at all ages that children and their moods are unpredictable.  To me this is all about the parents who don't consider those around them in that situation.  Too often I see what appears to parents (church or other location) who seem to tune out the fussing and crying and tantrums and do not seem to make even the slightest effort to calm the child.  I wish I was stretching the truth, but I have seen this.

As I said early, I'm not really a proponent of the seen and not heard theory, to me the way I interpret it has to do with how I was brought up with the concept of adult space.  Not all places & situations are child friendly. I can remember, we would go visit my paternal grandparents.  They had a tall chest of drawers in their living room.  The bottom drawer contained toys for the grandkids. When we got to the house, you said your hellos, maybe got a glass of milk and a cookie and then found something to play with out of the drawer.  You then played quietly while the grown ups talked.  If you didn't want to play, you sat quietly on the lap (or next to) one of the adults while they continued to talk. You didn't pester, you didn't nudge, you didn't whine. 

I hear stories from PPs about their friends children who are permitted to run rampant in their non-kid friendly, non-kid proofed homes with parents who don't do anything or get pissy when you tell their child not to do something.

Perhaps my parents were strict in their expectations, but I would rather have that then the above.

I'm not a parent, so take what I say wit ha grain of salt.  H and I have talked about our potential parenting skills when/if we actually have a child.  We've agreed that if our kid is screaming at the grocery store because they want a chocolate bar that we're not prepared to buy for them, we're going to let them scream about it. We've told you no, you're not getting it and a temper tantrum isn't going to get us to give in. If that means you scream for 10 minutes while I finish my shopping,  that's what has to happen.   

I was in a grocery store and the store manager went up to a screaming kid and gave him the chocolate bar he wanted and the mom was pissed, and I would have been too.

Sounds pretty selfish to me.  I would think you would take the kid home and try again later - ideally without Junior.

This attitude is EXACTLY what we were talking about - parents being oblivious to how irritating they are to those around them.

Boxboxboxboxbox

I don't mean on a consist basis, every time. But if I've just worked a 12 hour day, I just picked Johnny up from day care, I'm trying to buy groceries to make Johnny dinner because there's no food in the house and he's screaming, it's unlikely I'm going to go home and wait it out.  I give any parents of screaming kids at the grocery store the benefit of the doubt because I don't know their situation. They could be wonderful parents and just in a bad situation that day.

Liatris2010

The grocery store and a restaurant are two totally different situations. While I don't appreciate a screaming toddler anywhere, in a grocery store it is not ruining my ability to shop and in a restaurant it is ruining my ability to enjoy dinner. Leave your kid sobbing in the candy aisle if you must, but take the kid out of the restaurant.

l9i

DH and I were at the store just within the week as we are waiting in the checkout a mom and her two kids get in line beside us.  The toddler begins screaming, I didn't catch why, but the mom's tactic was just to ignore him.  There was no effort to tell him to stop or anything, just act like the screaming child wasn't screaming.

After we walked out the doors DH and I began talking about it and what we'd do in the situation.  If I was that close to checking out I'd continue to check out but I think I would also be talking to the child, telling them that's inappropriate, etc.  I don't think I'd just ignore it, I'd hate to be "that person" in the grocery, restaurant, etc.

Maggie0829

I guess I think if a child is screaming and cannot be calmed down at any public place then the child should be removed and taken somewhere quiet, like the car, so that the parent can calm the child down without any distractions.

ETA:  This doesn't mean that you give up food shopping completely.  It means taking care and control of your child and maybe having to wait 10 or so minutes to do your shopping.

luckya23

I would be the person other patrons are calling the cops on bc it's at LEAST hand over mouth time in that situation.

l9i said:

DH and I were at the store just within the week as we are waiting in the checkout a mom and her two kids get in line beside us.  The toddler begins screaming, I didn't catch why, but the mom's tactic was just to ignore him.  There was no effort to tell him to stop or anything, just act like the screaming child wasn't screaming.

After we walked out the doors DH and I began talking about it and what we'd do in the situation.  If I was that close to checking out I'd continue to check out but I think I would also be talking to the child, telling them that's inappropriate, etc.  I don't think I'd just ignore it, I'd hate to be "that person" in the grocery, restaurant, etc.

banana468

Sometimes it just isn't that easy - especially when you're the solo parent.   Buying groceries at the end of the day often means that those groceries are going to be used that night.   Do I parent my kid and tell her to knock it off?   You bet.   But that doesn't meant hat she always listens.   

The worst epic meltdown DD had was going into the shopping cart getting into the store.   She cooled her shit after that and I reamed her out.  But sometimes she whines in the check out for the candy bar.   And you know what?   It's a pain in the ass but I'm not abandoning my cart when I need the groceries for dinner that night.   Going out and then back in wont' change anything unless the stores stop putting impulse purchases right next to the check out.   They should call that area the "I triple dog dare you MOM" section.   Because good luck getting through that with a child who sees all the treats without wanting one of them.

I rarely deal with that because DH does the grocery shopping but I do think you need to cut parents some slack when it's a grocery store.   It just isn't' realistic to expect them to abandon their shopping cart all the time when the kid is yelling.   Will I do that in a restaurant or other space where possible?   Absolutely.   But it's not so simple to do that when we need the food or prescriptions.

And let's not completely forget that there are special needs kids out there.   Sometimes it's easier said than done and a child making a lot of noise may have more issues than a simple tantrum. 

Maggie0829

banana468 said:

Sometimes it just isn't that easy - especially when you're the solo parent.   Buying groceries at the end of the day often means that those groceries are going to be used that night.   Do I parent my kid and tell her to knock it off?   You bet.   But that doesn't meant hat she always listens.   

The worst epic meltdown DD had was going into the shopping cart getting into the store.   She cooled her shit after that and I reamed her out.  But sometimes she whines in the check out for the candy bar.   And you know what?   It's a pain in the ass but I'm not abandoning my cart when I need the groceries for dinner that night.   Going out and then back in wont' change anything unless the stores stop putting impulse purchases right next to the check out.   They should call that area the "I triple dog dare you MOM" section.   Because good luck getting through that with a child who sees all the treats without wanting one of them.

I rarely deal with that because DH does the grocery shopping but I do think you need to cut parents some slack when it's a grocery store.   It just isn't' realistic to expect them to abandon their shopping cart all the time when the kid is yelling.   Will I do that in a restaurant or other space where possible?   Absolutely.   But it's not so simple to do that when we need the food or prescriptions.

And let's not completely forget that there are special needs kids out there.   Sometimes it's easier said than done and a child making a lot of noise may have more issues than a simple tantrum. 

Yeah I realize that not everything is black and white and that there are times where leaving like when you are in the middle of checking out is not possible.  But I, as a patron, am allowed to be annoyed at a screaming child.  I never say anything of course because its not my place and I have a funny feeling that the parent is just as annoyed and even embarrassed that their kid is acting out.  But even though I may give parents slack because their kid is acting like a little brat that doesn't mean my annoyance goes away.

The sound of a screaming, whining child is not a pleasant sound.  Like nails on a chalkboard it annoys me.  Sorry not sorry.

TrixieJess

loveislouder said:

MrsMack10612 said:

I don't expect children to be perfect.  I have enough experience with the children in my family at all ages that children and their moods are unpredictable.  To me this is all about the parents who don't consider those around them in that situation.  Too often I see what appears to parents (church or other location) who seem to tune out the fussing and crying and tantrums and do not seem to make even the slightest effort to calm the child.  I wish I was stretching the truth, but I have seen this.

As I said early, I'm not really a proponent of the seen and not heard theory, to me the way I interpret it has to do with how I was brought up with the concept of adult space.  Not all places & situations are child friendly. I can remember, we would go visit my paternal grandparents.  They had a tall chest of drawers in their living room.  The bottom drawer contained toys for the grandkids. When we got to the house, you said your hellos, maybe got a glass of milk and a cookie and then found something to play with out of the drawer.  You then played quietly while the grown ups talked.  If you didn't want to play, you sat quietly on the lap (or next to) one of the adults while they continued to talk. You didn't pester, you didn't nudge, you didn't whine. 

I hear stories from PPs about their friends children who are permitted to run rampant in their non-kid friendly, non-kid proofed homes with parents who don't do anything or get pissy when you tell their child not to do something.

Perhaps my parents were strict in their expectations, but I would rather have that then the above.

I'm not a parent, so take what I say wit ha grain of salt.  H and I have talked about our potential parenting skills when/if we actually have a child.  We've agreed that if our kid is screaming at the grocery store because they want a chocolate bar that we're not prepared to buy for them, we're going to let them scream about it. We've told you no, you're not getting it and a temper tantrum isn't going to get us to give in. If that means you scream for 10 minutes while I finish my shopping,  that's what has to happen.   

I was in a grocery store and the store manager went up to a screaming kid and gave him the chocolate bar he wanted and the mom was pissed, and I would have been too.

If my kid does this, we haul ass out of the store and mom or dad go back and do the shopping on their own. 

1. It teaches your kid that there is an immediate consequence to the action

2. It prevents you from annoying every single person around you

3. It gives you a cooling off moment

I would never let my kid stay screaming in a store or public place. I have taken him out and let him scream in his stroller down the street on the way home, but there is not much you can do about that. 

banana468

Maggie0829 said:

banana468 said:

Sometimes it just isn't that easy - especially when you're the solo parent.   Buying groceries at the end of the day often means that those groceries are going to be used that night.   Do I parent my kid and tell her to knock it off?   You bet.   But that doesn't meant hat she always listens.   

The worst epic meltdown DD had was going into the shopping cart getting into the store.   She cooled her shit after that and I reamed her out.  But sometimes she whines in the check out for the candy bar.   And you know what?   It's a pain in the ass but I'm not abandoning my cart when I need the groceries for dinner that night.   Going out and then back in wont' change anything unless the stores stop putting impulse purchases right next to the check out.   They should call that area the "I triple dog dare you MOM" section.   Because good luck getting through that with a child who sees all the treats without wanting one of them.

I rarely deal with that because DH does the grocery shopping but I do think you need to cut parents some slack when it's a grocery store.   It just isn't' realistic to expect them to abandon their shopping cart all the time when the kid is yelling.   Will I do that in a restaurant or other space where possible?   Absolutely.   But it's not so simple to do that when we need the food or prescriptions.

And let's not completely forget that there are special needs kids out there.   Sometimes it's easier said than done and a child making a lot of noise may have more issues than a simple tantrum. 

Yeah I realize that not everything is black and white and that there are times where leaving like when you are in the middle of checking out is not possible.  But I, as a patron, am allowed to be annoyed at a screaming child.  I never say anything of course because its not my place and I have a funny feeling that the parent is just as annoyed and even embarrassed that their kid is acting out.  But even though I may give parents slack because their kid is acting like a little brat that doesn't mean my annoyance goes away.

The sound of a screaming, whining child is not a pleasant sound.  Like nails on a chalkboard it annoys me.  Sorry not sorry.

Hey, I hate it too.   It's not a desirable sound at all.   And I do try to limit it as much as possible.   

loveislouder

TrixieJess said:

loveislouder said:

MrsMack10612 said:

I don't expect children to be perfect.  I have enough experience with the children in my family at all ages that children and their moods are unpredictable.  To me this is all about the parents who don't consider those around them in that situation.  Too often I see what appears to parents (church or other location) who seem to tune out the fussing and crying and tantrums and do not seem to make even the slightest effort to calm the child.  I wish I was stretching the truth, but I have seen this.

As I said early, I'm not really a proponent of the seen and not heard theory, to me the way I interpret it has to do with how I was brought up with the concept of adult space.  Not all places & situations are child friendly. I can remember, we would go visit my paternal grandparents.  They had a tall chest of drawers in their living room.  The bottom drawer contained toys for the grandkids. When we got to the house, you said your hellos, maybe got a glass of milk and a cookie and then found something to play with out of the drawer.  You then played quietly while the grown ups talked.  If you didn't want to play, you sat quietly on the lap (or next to) one of the adults while they continued to talk. You didn't pester, you didn't nudge, you didn't whine. 

I hear stories from PPs about their friends children who are permitted to run rampant in their non-kid friendly, non-kid proofed homes with parents who don't do anything or get pissy when you tell their child not to do something.

Perhaps my parents were strict in their expectations, but I would rather have that then the above.

I'm not a parent, so take what I say wit ha grain of salt.  H and I have talked about our potential parenting skills when/if we actually have a child.  We've agreed that if our kid is screaming at the grocery store because they want a chocolate bar that we're not prepared to buy for them, we're going to let them scream about it. We've told you no, you're not getting it and a temper tantrum isn't going to get us to give in. If that means you scream for 10 minutes while I finish my shopping,  that's what has to happen.   

I was in a grocery store and the store manager went up to a screaming kid and gave him the chocolate bar he wanted and the mom was pissed, and I would have been too.

If my kid does this, we haul ass out of the store and mom or dad go back and do the shopping on their own. 

1. It teaches your kid that there is an immediate consequence to the action

2. It prevents you from annoying every single person around you

3. It gives you a cooling off moment

I would never let my kid stay screaming in a store or public place. I have taken him out and let him scream in his stroller down the street on the way home, but there is not much you can do about that. 

Right, but as Banana said, sometimes it's just not possible to leave and come back.

ETA: Absolutely, if it were both H and I in the store and the situation allowed for us to remove non-existent Johnny from the situation, we absolutely would. We're not dense. We understand a screaming child in any situation is less than ideal. 

Maggie0829

banana468 said:

Maggie0829 said:

banana468 said:

Sometimes it just isn't that easy - especially when you're the solo parent.   Buying groceries at the end of the day often means that those groceries are going to be used that night.   Do I parent my kid and tell her to knock it off?   You bet.   But that doesn't meant hat she always listens.   

The worst epic meltdown DD had was going into the shopping cart getting into the store.   She cooled her shit after that and I reamed her out.  But sometimes she whines in the check out for the candy bar.   And you know what?   It's a pain in the ass but I'm not abandoning my cart when I need the groceries for dinner that night.   Going out and then back in wont' change anything unless the stores stop putting impulse purchases right next to the check out.   They should call that area the "I triple dog dare you MOM" section.   Because good luck getting through that with a child who sees all the treats without wanting one of them.

I rarely deal with that because DH does the grocery shopping but I do think you need to cut parents some slack when it's a grocery store.   It just isn't' realistic to expect them to abandon their shopping cart all the time when the kid is yelling.   Will I do that in a restaurant or other space where possible?   Absolutely.   But it's not so simple to do that when we need the food or prescriptions.

And let's not completely forget that there are special needs kids out there.   Sometimes it's easier said than done and a child making a lot of noise may have more issues than a simple tantrum. 

Yeah I realize that not everything is black and white and that there are times where leaving like when you are in the middle of checking out is not possible.  But I, as a patron, am allowed to be annoyed at a screaming child.  I never say anything of course because its not my place and I have a funny feeling that the parent is just as annoyed and even embarrassed that their kid is acting out.  But even though I may give parents slack because their kid is acting like a little brat that doesn't mean my annoyance goes away.

The sound of a screaming, whining child is not a pleasant sound.  Like nails on a chalkboard it annoys me.  Sorry not sorry.

Hey, I hate it too.   It's not a desirable sound at all.   And I do try to limit it as much as possible.   

I bet.  I know my sister just wants to pull her hair out when her 5 year old throws a tantrum in the middle of Target.  Most times it is more the sound that drives people crazy then the parents not parenting.  People know that kids will act like brats and scream and whine and cry at the most in opportune time.  But I think in this thread most are talking about when the parent has the chance to remove the child or work to calm the child but they don't either because they think ignoring it is a good idea or they just don't care.

I mean I just saw a video of a little kid basically running around like a tornado in a Chuck E Cheese.  He was walking on the skee ball machines, grabbing others skee balls, spitting on other people, etc, etc.  The parents were no where to be found while their child went nutso.  And of course in today's world if someone else took the child by the hand to find his parents that person probably would have been arrested or sued.

MrsMack10612

banana468 said:

Sometimes it just isn't that easy - especially when you're the solo parent.   Buying groceries at the end of the day often means that those groceries are going to be used that night.   Do I parent my kid and tell her to knock it off?   You bet.   But that doesn't meant hat she always listens.   

The worst epic meltdown DD had was going into the shopping cart getting into the store.   She cooled her shit after that and I reamed her out.  But sometimes she whines in the check out for the candy bar.   And you know what?   It's a pain in the ass but I'm not abandoning my cart when I need the groceries for dinner that night.   Going out and then back in wont' change anything unless the stores stop putting impulse purchases right next to the check out.   They should call that area the "I triple dog dare you MOM" section.   Because good luck getting through that with a child who sees all the treats without wanting one of them.

I rarely deal with that because DH does the grocery shopping but I do think you need to cut parents some slack when it's a grocery store.   It just isn't' realistic to expect them to abandon their shopping cart all the time when the kid is yelling.   Will I do that in a restaurant or other space where possible?   Absolutely.   But it's not so simple to do that when we need the food or prescriptions.

And let's not completely forget that there are special needs kids out there.   Sometimes it's easier said than done and a child making a lot of noise may have more issues than a simple tantrum. 

I thought I said in an earlier post that I am trying not be as judgemental I was (it's a struggle sometimes) of those screaming kids knowing full well that they could be a child with special needs that can be even less predictable than a non-special needs child.  But like Maggie said, it's still just as annoying to listen to.  

I still wonder if the stress level that puts on you (and spouse if you are together) and your child(ren) in dealing with shopping, tantrums and all that goes with it, is worth the homecooked meal or are you maybe better offer just going home and ordering a pizza?  (FTR, all general in the "you" department).  I realize that's not always the ideal solution either, but I'm just thinking in terms in of stress reduction.  Sometimes you just need a Plan B.