Marriage Ultimatums

thisismynickname2

From Jezebel:

http://itheedread.jezebel.com/ladies-we-have-moved-past-marriage-ultimatums-okay-1739480100

Thoughts? The comments on the article got fairly heated. 

When I was in my mid-twenties, my boyfriend of nearly 3 years wanted to move in together. I was against living together before engagement/marriage for a variety of reasons, the primary reason being that I had seen many friends move in and out of homes with various partners. As if breaking up is hard enough, now one person's homeless, greaaat. So anyway, I gave him the marriage ultimatum: I expected to be engaged if we were to move in together. Then I relaxed to "engaged within a year of moving in together." Ultimately, we never moved in together and broke up shortly after trying to look for a place together. Now? We're both married to people who are far more right for us than we ever were for each other. 

But, I have friends who just aren't, or weren't, on the same timeline as their boyfriends and remain together. I see how frustrating it is for them. They want the security of marriage, they want to buy a home together and plan a family (not that you can't do that without marriage anyway), while the boyfriend was happy to just be a live-in boyfriend. One couple married after 10 years together and another friend is still waiting (7 or 8 years and counting). I have to be honest; I figured if you weren't on the same timeline in terms of wanting to establish a home and grow a family, that there are plenty of fish in the sea and maybe someone else was out there whose life goals are aligned with yours. I've heard a whole host of reasons for a lack of proposal in friends' relationships, but sometimes it just seems like the guy wants an easy out from the relationship just in case someone better comes along. Under the right circumstances, I think an ultimatum can work. It's like Aidan and Carrie in Sex & the City: "If you don't want to marry me right now, you won't ever want to marry me." 

Maggie0829

I think there is a difference between ultimatums and discussing your expectations/timelines with your partner.

I do not like ultimatums.  Talk about taking the romance out of things.  And do you (general you) really want to marry someone that you basically had to threaten?  I feel like ultimatums never end well.

I think more couples need to discuss their expectations/wants/needs/timelines early on.  I also think a lot depends on your age.  If you are young, your timelines tend to be a bit more open and what you want tends to change.  But as you get older, you tend to know exactly what you want and aren't okay with dealing with a person who may or may not want the same thing.

MissKittyDanger

My situation with my now H was different, but I still wouldn't have lived with him before being married. On both sides there are issues. He was use to spending his money whenever and I'm an only child suddenly having to share. There were many growing pains. I also know with my ex's I couldn't have lived with any of them, so it was never even an option with anyone else.

I know people who have done both sides of the coin, some work and some don't.

lnixon8

I think living together before your commited (whatever that means to the couple) is where things get sticky. It is far easier to break up with someone/take a break etc. when you live apart, and easier to stay together even if it isn't working because of how much actual work it is to break up once you've already lived together.

It's also hard when (typically) women try and not make waves because they want to be seen as "the cool girl". I really admire women that can be upfront even on first dates with saying they eventually want to get married, have kids, move to the suburbs, stay in the city etc.

thefanciestbeckler

This is such an interesting topic. I can see 2 sides to the coin here. I'm not a big fan of ultimatums, because who wants to marry someone that they basically forced into things? At the same time, I understand there comes a point were you have to piss or get off the pot so to speak.

DH and I were kind of in category #2. We were both approaching 30 and had thoroughly discussed timelines, expectations, etc. I knew he loved me and had every intention of marrying me, but to me it seemed like he was dragging his feet. It took a few months of having some honest discussions before we were able to get to the root of it. A combination of being an only child and his mother passing away suddenly when he was very young was genuinely making it difficult for him to take that next step.

So did I give him an ultimatum per se? No. It was more of "Ok, we have reached a point in the timeline that we discussed and agreed upon where it is time to take the next step. This seems to be hard for you, so let's figure out why together". That worked for us, and in the long run I am so glad we got to the bottom of it BEFORE we got engaged instead of having these issues crop up right before the wedding or even after!

ETA - we did not live together before we got married because of our religious beliefs, so that wasn't a factor in any of this.

cgss11

I don't really like ultimatums, but definitely see both sides of this.

In my early 20s, I lived with a guy. Though we would get married. We definitely got too comfortable though I think, and there was just not motivation to move to the next step. So I broke it off, because I did want more. But then, like mentioned, I was "homeless" and had to scramble to find a new place. Now looking back though, I see other red flags so the relationship probably wouldn't have lasted either way.

Fast forward..I made a new rule to myself that I wouldn't live with someone without being engaged. I stuck to this, and it worked out. Sure, it may have been easier to move in with him earlier, and probably more cost effective, but after going through the whole breakup and needing to move out thing, I was not willing to put myself in that position again. Then boyfriend knew that, but I didn't make a big deal about it or pressure him into proposing before he was ready.

So I suppose this holds true to me, but the really issue is the "ultimatum". Those are threatening, and a red flag that the relationship is in trouble anyways, in my opinion. For me, the not moving in was more just a personal conviction.

OliveOilsMom

I, personally, didn't want H to move in until we were engaged.  But, at the same time, I never pressured him into an engagement. 

If we had worked with my timeline, we would have been engaged and married at least a year earlier than we were.  I also knew that H wasn't ready for an engagement, so I was happy to have him on his timeline. The same has been with children.  I would have liked to have started a year earlier than we did, but H wasn't ready.  Again, I was just happy to have him and was happy to wait for his timeline. 

I think a potential difference was that I knew H was going to be ready for engagement, marriage, and kids in x months/years.  So I knew his timeline.  When a couple can't even communicate their preferred timelines to each other, there is a problem.  I do realize there are also people out there that, even though they know their partners preferred timeline, they don't care and will still issue the ultimatum. 

julieanne912

I didn't meet my H until shortly before my 30th birthday.  We were long distance at first, so we had a lot of heart to heart discussions about what we wanted etc.  He said back then that he'd probably know by a year if he wanted to marry somebody.  I moved states and in with him when we were together for only about 4 months.  The first 6ish months after I moved in were not fun... a lot of adjustments were needed on both our parts since we were both used to living alone.  But, I feel like BECAUSE we were living together, we had to try harder to make it work.  I honestly feel like if we weren't living together, our relationship wouldn't have lasted since we wouldn't have had to go to bed in the same bed every night (which for me is hard to do if you're mad at somebody).  We eventually worked out our life together and things got better.

But, anyway, a year came and went, and no proposal.  I was ready.  Then year 2 came and went.  I started getting antsy, everyone kept asking when we were going to get married, etc etc.  It's super frustrating to be over 30 and unmarried, in my opinion.  We got in a big blow up fight about it because I had yet another person bugging me about when we were getting married, and I started to push him about it on our way home.  

But never once did I issue an ultimatum of "propose or I'll leave".  Because, in the end, I was happy being with him, and the thought of not being with him was heartbreaking.  I wasn't about to propose myself though, I'm just too traditional for that.  It turned out, after our blow up fight he went out and bought a ring.  He waited about 3 more months to propose though, because he wanted to do it in the house we were building/buying together and the closing kept getting delayed. We ended up moving in on our 3rd anniversary so it worked out well

drunkenwitch

I'll have to check that article out. BF and I have been together almost 5 years and recently moved in together. We've discussed marriage and it is something we both want, he's just not ready yet. I can respect that. I'm not chomping at tbe bit to get married, we could get married next month or 3 years from now and that would be fine by me. I did tell hum that I wouldn't be 50 and still be calling him my boyfriend, he agreed with me on that.

kvruns

I'd always been against the living together things w/o the commitment of engagement or marriage, mostly because as you said I had friends who had lived with someone for years and they wanted to get married and it never happened for one reason or another. My theory was if you have to live with me to decide if you want to marry me then I'm not sure our relationship is right. FFW to my H who had very strong feelings about how a couple needed to spend more time together and living together was the only real way to do it. It was a big issue with us and I finally gave in (for lack of a better word), sold my house, got rid of most of my stuff since there wasn't room for both, and said a quick hope and a prayer that it would work out. My house buyer ended up backing out so while it was back on the market he proposed and it all worked out that way I guess. I've told him many times he could have saved a lot of heartache and fighting (my parents were not ok with the moving in before marriage) if he had proposed 6 weeks earlier!

He said one time I gave him an ultimatum, which I disagree, it was the relationship expectations I set out and my boundaries. I said if I did move in with him and nothing had changed (no engagement or true clear path to definitely being married) in a year or so then I wasn't sure I would be able to continue in the relationship because I wanted marriage and family and couldn't stay in limbo forever.

luckya23

That particular article, to me, was a big waste of time, and a better format would have been commenting on the original article, rather than writing a whole page which is mostly quoting the original with a nice "click bait" title.

Anyway, I sort of agree with the first comment on this article, wondering how invested are you really if you will leave over a ring.  What I don't agree with is that the idea of being married is "only a ring and a party."  I guess I'm finally starting to actually feel different than I did when we were dating/engaged!

I'm not a fan of ultimatums.  My last boyfriend actually said that he would never get married unless his girlfriend produced a child for him, because he wouldn't want to miss the opportunity to have his own biological child.  The old uterus shut down real quick after this convo, let me tell you!! 

As far as living together, I lived with a previous fiancé for 3 years before we got engaged.  The previous shitstain boyfriend I mentioned, I lived in his rental house which he packed with 5 other girls (probably 9 or 10 over the 2 years), so I was trapped without the "benefit" of actually living with him.  He could come and go as he pleased and I couldn't. 

I bought my house to escape that situation (rentals are expensive here, plus almost impossible with 2 med/large dogs) and met DH 2 months later. 

DH didn't want to live together until we were engaged, and he actually kept his apartment until 7 months after we were engaged, and 6 months before the wedding.  I was shocked honestly that he brought up getting engaged on his own, because I always kind of assumed it was something that a woman kind of had to push on!  Turns out he had been waiting until our 1 year anniversary because that was an appropriate amount of time in his mind.  The feeling was so different compared to my previous fiancé, who I just kind of looked at one day and was like "hey, it's been 3.5 years, we should probably get married next summer" and he said "Okay." 

[Deleted User]

I had an ex b/f (live-in for 4 of the almost 5 years we were together) who would refer to me when it was convenient for him, as his fiance.  He never asked me and we had never discussed marriage.  It bothered me when he did that.  I wasn't his fiance; if he wanted me to be, he should have asked.  He would also say he was going to do a lot of things and never do them. Simple things, like, "gonna put gas in the car today" to big things like, "going to look for a new job today."  98/100 times, he didn't do what he said he was going to do.  It bothered me.

Before we were engaged, my now H and I would talk about marriage and we knew we wanted to marry each other as soon as possible, but he was job-less, in school, etc. and he wanted to be "worthy of me" (his words) when proposing.  So it took a while to get there. 

And at one point I did have to tell him that I really hoped he'd make good on what he said he was going to do (propose- he is more traditional and when I'd asked him once if he'd say yes if I proposed he said he would be really uncomfortable w/ me proposing to him) because I'd heard for years someone say they were going to do something and not do it.  Thankfully, he did- and it happened sooner than I thought it would overall.

If anyone would have been given an ultimatum it would have been me- from myself.  If you really want to be married or engaged by a certain time, and you've let your partner know that w/o delivering an ultimatum, then you've got to be the one who moves on when it doesn't happen.  You don't even have to tell the other person you'll be the one to break it off- they may just propose to put off figuring things out... 

I actually have a co-worker who did this recently.  She'd been w/ her b/f for 5 years, they've lived in two different states together, and she let him know at about year 3 that she wanted to get married and have kids.  She decided that, if he hadn't proposed by their anniversary in August (year 6) she was going to break it off.  He didn't and so she told him she didn't think they wanted the same things and so she was breaking it off. 

arrrghmatey

I had a friend who was with her boyfriend over 7 years. They had been living together for 5 of those years. She wanted to get married. He clearly didn't, having been married twice already. Plus there was a 20 year difference between them. She eventually gave him an ultimatum, saying "You have to propose to me by XX date or else we're done." Her boyfriend proposed on that exact date. They were engaged for a total of six months before permanently breaking it off. Anytime you (general you) make ultimatums, especially in a relationship, there is going to be resentment.

In terms of living together….My mom was always against the idea and constantly remind me of it. My first serious boyfriend I lived with off and on because my parents lived so close--I bounced back and forth when it was convenient to do so. I was 22/23/24 and he was 30/31/32. I'm SO glad I did this because it turned out he was an AWFUL person to live with for many reasons. There were other problems in the relationship that led to it finally ending (he also gave me an ultimatum that I would quit my job that I worked so hard for and be a stay at home mom/housewife, which I did not want).

My current FI and I moved in together after dating for a little over 2 years. Rent was sky-rocketing for both of us, the distance was making it hard for us to see each other as much as we wanted, and I was looking for a change of scenery. So we decided to move in together. We both were on the same page that we wanted to get married, and I made it clear to FI that I was not content with 'playing house' unless it was going to the next level. It worked out well for us.

thisismynickname2

FeeleyingGood said:

Before we were engaged, my now H and I would talk about marriage and we knew we wanted to marry each other as soon as possible, but he was job-less, in school, etc. and he wanted to be "worthy of me" (his words) when proposing.  So it took a while to get there. 

And at one point I did have to tell him that I really hoped he'd make good on what he said he was going to do (propose- he is more traditional and when I'd asked him once if he'd say yes if I proposed he said he would be really uncomfortable w/ me proposing to him) because I'd heard for years someone say they were going to do something and not do it.  Thankfully, he did- and it happened sooner than I thought it would overall.

If anyone would have been given an ultimatum it would have been me- from myself.  If you really want to be married or engaged by a certain time, and you've let your partner know that w/o delivering an ultimatum, then you've got to be the one who moves on when it doesn't happen.  You don't even have to tell the other person you'll be the one to break it off- they may just propose to put off figuring things out... 

First bolded- I did the same thing with DH. I was 29 and he brought up the idea of getting married. By then, I'd had the aforementioned 2 friends get told multiple promises over the years, plus knew of plenty others getting the "someday" promises, and I wouldn't stand for that. I basically told DH that I wanted to marry him too, but that if he wanted it, to follow through and not string me along like my friends were strung along. We were engaged within 4 months of the original "getting married would be great" conversation. That being said! If he'd never brought it up, I wouldn't have pressured him into an engagement. It was really more about promising something and then not following through. I'd much rather be in a long-term, committed relationship than committed yet always wondering when the next step would be taken. 

Second bolded- truth! If your timelines for life goals are truly out of whack, then you have to accept that and leave, rather than browbeat someone into accepting your timeline.   

ryanandjoe4

I was in a relationship for 5 years with a guy that said "I will marry you when, collage is over/new house/better $$.. I left with out ultimatum, and less than a year later he is married to girl that we broke up over (he is a dirty cheater so glad I dodged a bullet)

It was in the beginning of the relationship with my now H that I brought this up and said that I am not wasting my time on someone like that again, I never ever want to hear "I will marry you after this happens"

Then 2 (almost 3) years into the relationship, we had been living together for over a year, we were driving home one day, and I looked at him and said, "why have you not asked me to marry you yet, I am not willing to wait around for you to decide you don't want to? We have been together for almost 3 years, and if you're unsure still, I don't think you ever will be sure." He only said that he was sure and not to worry.. Man of few words drives me crazy sometimes, but about a month later he popped the question..

ShesSoCold

I only read a portion of the article. In my relationship, I wouldn't have called it an ultimatum but I suppose it could be.

H and I moved in together after being together for two years. I knew I wanted to marry him, he knew he wanted to be with me but was anti-marriage. I'd told him more than once that marriage was important to me and I wasn't going to sit around forever. We had combined finances and after five years together, he went out and got a large (to me) loan for a motorcycle without telling me. I was mad. We had debt, we had bills and we rarely even bought lunch without talking to each other. I told him that I would be stupid to stick around and help him pay off this stupid ass loan if there was no future. He had already planned on proposing (and had a stone but had to get the ring made) but I didn't know that. I never gave him an ultimatum, I never said, "propose or I'm out" it was more "you decided this, which caused me to decide that".

ETA: After a few years together, he wasn't anti-marriage anymore. He knew how important it was to me, he realized his reasoning was pretty out there (he said "marriage is the first step to divorce" and his parents are divorced) and he realized the benefits. 

ThxSugar

I have lived with every guy I have had a long term relationship with (3). But until FI, they lived with me. It was my place and they stayed there. There was never any expectation of marriage, we were just together all of the time anyways. The first time, my lease ended and I left to split a house with some girlfriends. Dude had plenty of notice of my plans to find his own place. We were 20, not meant to be. Second guy was going to school full time so I paid all the bills (on our shoebox size one bedroom) and he would kick in when he got his student loans each semester. He eventually moved out b/c I treated him like shit. I feel bad sometimes but that relationship was complicated.

With FI, things were just different. We contemplated go to the court house before we were even officially dating, he told me wanted to marry me before our first anniversary, he just wanted to get a good job first. By our 2nd anniversary, we had bonded in a way that I knew I wanted to be with him forever. That christmas he gifted me a promise ring. Year 3 was our hardest. He got a new job in a new state at the same time I started a gig that kept me traveling for 7 months. A month before my gig ended, he transferred to another state, across the country. I went with him. We had a lot of repair work to do from being long distance. But 6 months after our 4 year anniversary he proposed. We just passed out 5th, and a week after our 6th, we will be married.

I absolutely refused to give him an ultimatum, not that I needed to. I wanted him to propose of his own free will. Even though it killed me at times. His mom had given him his nana's ring to give to me, and I knew about it (he told me/ showed me the ring), and he still waited 6 months. But honestly, I knew I wanted to be with him. I wanted the security of being married but at no point would I have traded that for him. He knew my position though, no marriage, no babies. Idk if that had anything to do with him proposing or not.

nerdwife

Maggie0829 said:

I think there is a difference between ultimatums and discussing your expectations/timelines with your partner.

I do not like ultimatums.  Talk about taking the romance out of things.  And do you (general you) really want to marry someone that you basically had to threaten?  I feel like ultimatums never end well.

I think more couples need to discuss their expectations/wants/needs/timelines early on.  I also think a lot depends on your age.  If you are young, your timelines tend to be a bit more open and what you want tends to change.  But as you get older, you tend to know exactly what you want and aren't okay with dealing with a person who may or may not want the same thing.

This. I don't understand this ultimatum thing. I recently stumbled upon an advice column and found one in which a girl said she wanted her boyfriend to propose over the holidays, and, if he did not, she was going to leave him in January. She wanted advice for a way to move him along. The response: it's called being in a relationship. Talk to him about it.

That's basically what we've always done - talk and talk and talk. I used to say I would never live with someone until we were engaged because I wanted what I felt would be a deeper commitment before taking that step. Fast forward to reality, rent is super high and we are tired of going back and forth between apartments, so we moved in together. We had been dating for just over a year, but we've known each other since we were 14, so it wasn't like starting from scratch. 

If I had said I wouldn't move in with him until we were engaged, it probably would've pushed everything back more than a year. When we moved in together, FI was still in school, and our first year living together I paid most of the bills (I graduated a year before him). I didn't mind - I liked supporting him through his last year of school, and living together is far and away the best thing ever (we always say it's like living with your best friend who you also get to have sex with). It also gave us time to ease into it (though we didn't need it) - when we moved in together, we were both studying for career-altering type tests, then I was looking for a job while he finished school, so by the time we both started working full-time, we were very good at balancing what needs to be done and such.

Obviously, it all worked out. With his first paycheck, he bought an engagement ring, and here we are.

So basically, I think people need to talk to each other. About all the things. There would be no need for ultimatums if people could just sit down, look each other in the eyes (aka not having serious conversations via text), and say what they're feeling. If you can't talk to the person about your feelings, desires, wishes, etc., what can you talk to them about? 

JediElizabeth

I had a slightly different angle.

I think the whole ultimatum issue comes from a world where men do hold the traditional power. It's hard for a woman to ask a man to marry her in a heterosexual relationship. Men don't have to worry so much about when they can have babies. There's a whole power differential.

For me, I pushed my FI for about 6 months up until we finally got engaged, but that's because he flat out asked me not to ask him. (I was actually planning on asking.) He wanted to be the one to do it. He wanted to "do it right" in a super romantic way. I just wanted a marriage; I didn't care if I got the ring or the sweet proposal story (though I do love having both of those things). But he had an expectation to be able to provide those things, and so I had to wait for him to plan and schedule and all that.

I think there wouldn't be any talk about ultimatums if women felt like they were able to ask the question themselves, but many can't. They feel like they can't resolve the issue themselves, because they can't ask the question, so they're just left waiting on someone else to resolve it for them. When that happens for years and years, there's a feeling of impotence and not being in control of your life (including possible issues like when you will reproduce, when and with whom you can buy a home, etc.). It even happens to women for whom marriage isn't important, because who really wants to be in that kind of limbo?

MrsMack10612

A former best friend gave her BF at the time (now ex-H) the ultimatum of propose/marry me or I'm out.  Clearly that worked out well.

I'm also very surprised by how many of you seem to have been pushing about getting engaged 2 or 3 years into your relationships like it was an eternity, especially those that seem so young.

H & I have been together for almost 15 years, but only married for 3 of them.  We knew 6 mos into the relationship that we wanted to get married but there were timing issues involved.  At that 6 mos mark, he had just gotten laid off, I had a boatload of debt/credit issues he wanted resolved first.  He also decided to go back to school and get his MBA, so he wanted to wait until that was done before proposing.  We were together for 8 years before he proposed, 11 before we got married. 

Men tend to be less sure of marriage.  They see to many friends (or celebs) getting raked over the coals by BSC exes and want to make sure they are making the right choice.  I think ultimatums or even "if he doesn't propose after X number years" I'm outta here attitudes are wrong.  Every relationship goes at its own pace. If you are living every other aspect of your life as a married couple except he hasn't put a ring on it, why the need for ultimatums or lines drawn in the sand. 

[Deleted User]

MrsMack10612 said:

A former best friend gave her BF at the time (now ex-H) the ultimatum of propose/marry me or I'm out.  Clearly that worked out well.

I'm also very surprised by how many of you seem to have been pushing about getting engaged 2 or 3 years into your relationships like it was an eternity, especially those that seem so young.

H & I have been together for almost 15 years, but only married for 3 of them.  We knew 6 mos into the relationship that we wanted to get married but there were timing issues involved.  At that 6 mos mark, he had just gotten laid off, I had a boatload of debt/credit issues he wanted resolved first.  He also decided to go back to school and get his MBA, so he wanted to wait until that was done before proposing.  We were together for 8 years before he proposed, 11 before we got married. 

Men tend to be less sure of marriage.  They see to many friends (or celebs) getting raked over the coals by BSC exes and want to make sure they are making the right choice.  I think ultimatums or even "if he doesn't propose after X number years" I'm outta here attitudes are wrong.  Every relationship goes at its own pace. If you are living every other aspect of your life as a married couple except he hasn't put a ring on it, why the need for ultimatums or lines drawn in the sand. 

Your timeline worked for you and your husband; that's not going to work for others.  Every relationship goes at it's own pace- to use your words.  And what sets that pace?  The people or persons involved.  So those people, as individuals or a couple do get to decide if it is time to say "adios" after 1 day or 10 years.

And for those who want to get married and are with a partner who seemingly doesn't want to- almost the exact same question can be posed:  if you are living every other aspect of your life as a married couple except he hasn't put a ring on it, why doesn't he want to put a ring on it? 

I think that's a fair question.  Because if all that's going to change is a ring, and a piece of paper and maybe access to other benefits, why not- what is preventing this person from "making it legal?"

MrsMack10612

@Feeleyinggood - I don't think I articulated well. 

I absolutely agree that every relationship moves at it's own pace, but that pace shouldn't be forced because one party is ready if the other isn't.  That isn't allowing it to move at it's own pace, that's moving the hands of the clock to where you want them.  What I was trying to state, is that in a traditional hetero relationship, the man does the asking.  If for whatever reason, he hasn't asked, he's not ready but that doesn't mean he's not necessarily ready to be married, just not ready to do the asking.  I don't believe that forcing the question or result is the way to go which is what ultimatums and lines in the sand do.  

 

julieanne912

MrsMack10612 said:

A former best friend gave her BF at the time (now ex-H) the ultimatum of propose/marry me or I'm out.  Clearly that worked out well.

I'm also very surprised by how many of you seem to have been pushing about getting engaged 2 or 3 years into your relationships like it was an eternity, especially those that seem so young.

H & I have been together for almost 15 years, but only married for 3 of them.  We knew 6 mos into the relationship that we wanted to get married but there were timing issues involved.  At that 6 mos mark, he had just gotten laid off, I had a boatload of debt/credit issues he wanted resolved first.  He also decided to go back to school and get his MBA, so he wanted to wait until that was done before proposing.  We were together for 8 years before he proposed, 11 before we got married. 

Men tend to be less sure of marriage.  They see to many friends (or celebs) getting raked over the coals by BSC exes and want to make sure they are making the right choice.  I think ultimatums or even "if he doesn't propose after X number years" I'm outta here attitudes are wrong.  Every relationship goes at its own pace. If you are living every other aspect of your life as a married couple except he hasn't put a ring on it, why the need for ultimatums or lines drawn in the sand. 

re: the bolded: In my case, I wasn't getting any younger.  I turned 30 the week I moved in with H.  Since we want to have a (small) family, and I did NOT want to have a kid without being married, waiting 5+ years to get married wasn't an option.  And, personally, I couldn't see being with someone for 5+ years and just letting the relationship go on and on with no next step coming. It's one thing if you're 20 but at my age, things need to move along.  Plus, I knew after just a few months that he was IT for me, so why lollygag around?

ryanandjoe4

MrsMack10612 said:

A former best friend gave her BF at the time (now ex-H) the ultimatum of propose/marry me or I'm out.  Clearly that worked out well. I am sure there were other factors leading to a divorce, and if he wasn't ready or didn't want to marry her that is completely on him for choosing the wrong answer..

I'm also very surprised by how many of you seem to have been pushing about getting engaged 2 or 3 years into your relationships like it was an eternity, especially those that seem so young. Everyone has a different "timeline/expectations" but if you have been with someone for over a year to two years it is reasonable to say you have a pretty good idea if you want to marry that person. you even said that after 6 months you and your SO wanted to marry each other, you are no different.. how are you coming to the assumption that PP are young, what does age have to do with this?

H & I have been together for almost 15 years, but only married for 3 of them.  We knew 6 mos into the relationship that we wanted to get married but there were timing issues involved.  At that 6 mos mark, he had just gotten laid off, I had a boatload of debt/credit issues he wanted resolved first.  He also decided to go back to school and get his MBA, so he wanted to wait until that was done before proposing.  We were together for 8 years before he proposed, 11 before we got married. You had a different timeline. For example H and I are in our 30's both done with school, with good jobs, and financially stable, so no time issues.. it is about knowing you want that next step, and being sure that the SO you're with wants that same future, you knew, and apparently had some type of discussion since you knew he wanted to wait until he was straight financially, and done with school.

Men tend to be less sure of marriage.  They see to many friends (or celebs) getting raked over the coals by BSC exes and want to make sure they are making the right choice.  I think ultimatums or even "if he doesn't propose after X number years" I'm outta here attitudes are wrong.  Every relationship goes at its own pace. If you are living every other aspect of your life as a married couple except he hasn't put a ring on it, why the need for ultimatums or lines drawn in the sand. FeeleyingGood  summed up the condesending statements well.. 

MrsMack10612

ryanandjoe4 said:

MrsMack10612 said:

A former best friend gave her BF at the time (now ex-H) the ultimatum of propose/marry me or I'm out.  Clearly that worked out well. I am sure there were other factors leading to a divorce, and if he wasn't ready or didn't want to marry her that is completely on him for choosing the wrong answer..

I'm also very surprised by how many of you seem to have been pushing about getting engaged 2 or 3 years into your relationships like it was an eternity, especially those that seem so young. Everyone has a different "timeline/expectations" but if you have been with someone for over a year to two years it is reasonable to say you have a pretty good idea if you want to marry that person. you even said that after 6 months you and your SO wanted to marry each other, you are no different.. how are you coming to the assumption that PP are young, what does age have to do with this?

H & I have been together for almost 15 years, but only married for 3 of them.  We knew 6 mos into the relationship that we wanted to get married but there were timing issues involved.  At that 6 mos mark, he had just gotten laid off, I had a boatload of debt/credit issues he wanted resolved first.  He also decided to go back to school and get his MBA, so he wanted to wait until that was done before proposing.  We were together for 8 years before he proposed, 11 before we got married. You had a different timeline. For example H and I are in our 30's both done with school, with good jobs, and financially stable, so no time issues.. it is about knowing you want that next step, and being sure that the SO you're with wants that same future, you knew, and apparently had some type of discussion since you knew he wanted to wait until he was straight financially, and done with school.

Men tend to be less sure of marriage.  They see to many friends (or celebs) getting raked over the coals by BSC exes and want to make sure they are making the right choice.  I think ultimatums or even "if he doesn't propose after X number years" I'm outta here attitudes are wrong.  Every relationship goes at its own pace. If you are living every other aspect of your life as a married couple except he hasn't put a ring on it, why the need for ultimatums or lines drawn in the sand. This is kinda sexist, my H is and was sure of marriage, more so than me. He came from a family that even though his father passed away early, his mom stayed single, still wears her ring, and only now that the kids are all married, she is retired, and bored, she is "not dating" someone. My father died young as well but my mother went on to get married and divorced 4 times.. So, I was the "apprehensive" one towards marriage, and know many woman that are as well. Also I have a BSC X that is a man, and unfortunately have a child with him so not getting him out of my life anytime soon, so men can be BSC as well. and as for the rest of this paragraph FeeleyingGood  summed up the condesending statements well.. 

I wasn't trying to be condescending, I was asking questions that I didn't understand.  I fit came across that way it was not my intention.

As for the age issue mentioned above, I guess I don't see 30 as all that old.  Myself and several of my friends were all 35+ when they got married and 1 just had her first child 6 months ago, another is expecting her 3rd in the spring and a 3rd is expecting her first this month.

I'm just trying to understand why there is a need to pressure either party in a relationship into anything.  Let's remember the OP was about ultimatums.  Do it or else has no place in a healthy relationship.

CMGragain

If you want a traditional marriage, then you need to choose a partner who is also interested in traditional marriage.  Don't just assume that he/she is.
I had four serious relationships before I married DH:
1.  Mr. Maybe we'll get married someday, but I'm not ready.  (I wasted four years on him, and he broke my heart.)
2.  Mr. I want to marry you someday.  (I learned.  I only wasted 8 months.)
3.  Mr.  I can't commit to anything because I'm finding myself.  (He tried to talk me out of marrying DH the night before our rehearsal.  God, he was hot!)
4.  Mr. Marry Me NOW!!!  (This is DH.)

My son has learned not to waste time dating poly-amorous ladies.  He wants a traditional marriage.

lovesclimbing

I really have no experience with this. H and I did not live together, and we got engaged after less than a year.

This article seems to come from a perspective of its always women giving the ultimatum and wanting to get married. My H actually had a faster get married timeline than I did! We got engaged sooner than I would have expected.

I do have different views on things than many people. For one, I chose to only date guys that I could see myself marrying in the future, not that we had to get married but we aligned in most our beliefs and future desires. H was fairly similar. Neither of us ever dated anyone else. I chose not to pursue one guy (who seemed interested when I was a freshman living at home), and turn down another guy because I knew there wasn't a future there - it would just be fun for a little while. So H and I discussed important things like kids and stuff pretty early on. If he didn't want to get married for 10 years or didn't see himself getting married, that relationship would have ended very quickly.

thisismynickname2

I'm with Julieanne here. In my 20's I could afford to date for years and be happy with that scenario, but as I got into my late 20's, I knew I wanted to be married and eventually maybe have a family. So, I needed to find a compatible person that was also on my same timeline. 

DH always said that a year of dating was his mark. If he was with a girl a year and didn't see a life with her, he'd break it off. Likewise, he told me within a year of us dating that he could see us being married, and I agreed. 

Now, my sister comes to mind. Her and her husband are child-free. They met in their early 20s and her timeline was to be married by 30. They even bought a house before getting engaged, but her man waited awhile to propose because he wanted to be more stable in his job (the stereotypical male provider mindset). Even though they don't plan to have children, my sister wanted the stability of legal benefits. Luckily their timelines aligned. I don't know if she ever gave him an ultimatum per se (something he once said hinted that she might have), but to repeat myself, married by 30 was important to her and they did do that. 5+ years later and still going strong. 

[Deleted User]

MrsMack10612 said:

@Feeleyinggood - I don't think I articulated well. 

I absolutely agree that every relationship moves at it's own pace, but that pace shouldn't be forced because one party is ready if the other isn't.  That isn't allowing it to move at it's own pace, that's moving the hands of the clock to where you want them.  What I was trying to state, is that in a traditional hetero relationship, the man does the asking.  If for whatever reason, he hasn't asked, he's not ready but that doesn't mean he's not necessarily ready to be married, just not ready to do the asking.  I don't believe that forcing the question or result is the way to go which is what ultimatums and lines in the sand do. 

BOX BOX BOX

I agree that people should be on the same page about when to move to the next stage in a relationship.  My point is, each person also gets to decide how long they are willing to wait for that next stage to happen before they call it off and move on in life.

Personally, I was not going to wait for 10 years to see if my (now) H was going to pop the question if that's how long it was going to take him to make that decision. 

Just like it would have been his decision to remain in a dating-only status until he felt ready to ask (since he specifically said he wanted to ask), it can also be my decision to decide I'm not willing to wait around for him to figure out if he's ready.  My options would be to ask him instead (still an option even though he was very uncomfortable with the idea) or break it off. 

Being with someone who you know wants to get married, when you're not ready, for more than a few years, I think, is disrespectful.  It's a waste of that person's time.  I'm not saying if you tell someone you want to be married they have to decide to jump on board the same day, but taking up years of their life... not cool in my book. 

ESPECIALLY if they also do nothing in those years to help themselves make that decision.  For example, the people who are scared to get married because their parents are divorced- maybe get some counseling for that, etc.  Don't just keep saying, "well my parents are divorced so I'm scared to get married."  Hey, if you go to counseling and it still doesn't help you resolve the issue, you've got firmer ground to stand on when it comes time to break things off- at least you attempted to work things out to see if it was s/t you could get over. 

I don't know if this makes sense (food coma... feeling sleepy...) but I hope it does.

MrsMack10612

FeeleyingGood said:

MrsMack10612 said:

@Feeleyinggood - I don't think I articulated well. 

I absolutely agree that every relationship moves at it's own pace, but that pace shouldn't be forced because one party is ready if the other isn't.  That isn't allowing it to move at it's own pace, that's moving the hands of the clock to where you want them.  What I was trying to state, is that in a traditional hetero relationship, the man does the asking.  If for whatever reason, he hasn't asked, he's not ready but that doesn't mean he's not necessarily ready to be married, just not ready to do the asking.  I don't believe that forcing the question or result is the way to go which is what ultimatums and lines in the sand do. 

BOX BOX BOX

I agree that people should be on the same page about when to move to the next stage in a relationship.  My point is, each person also gets to decide how long they are willing to wait for that next stage to happen before they call it off and move on in life.

Personally, I was not going to wait for 10 years to see if my (now) H was going to pop the question if that's how long it was going to take him to make that decision. 

Just like it would have been his decision to remain in a dating-only status until he felt ready to ask (since he specifically said he wanted to ask), it can also be my decision to decide I'm not willing to wait around for him to figure out if he's ready.  My options would be to ask him instead (still an option even though he was very uncomfortable with the idea) or break it off. 

Being with someone who you know wants to get married, when you're not ready, for more than a few years, I think, is disrespectful.  It's a waste of that person's time.  I'm not saying if you tell someone you want to be married they have to decide to jump on board the same day, but taking up years of their life... not cool in my book. 

ESPECIALLY if they also do nothing in those years to help themselves make that decision.  For example, the people who are scared to get married because their parents are divorced- maybe get some counseling for that, etc.  Don't just keep saying, "well my parents are divorced so I'm scared to get married."  Hey, if you go to counseling and it still doesn't help you resolve the issue, you've got firmer ground to stand on when it comes time to break things off- at least you attempted to work things out to see if it was s/t you could get over. 

I don't know if this makes sense (food coma... feeling sleepy...) but I hope it does.

You said what I was thinking better.   My whole point is that the couple should be talking about timelines and futures and be on the same page.  Those goals and timelines should be discussed and made known upfront.  If that all happens, ultimatums are not needed, you've already determined where your relationship is or isn't going by regular discussions as time progresses and life happens while you're making plans.  My H & I were very much in tune with our timeline.  I was in no great rush to get married and knew (from discussions) that when he was ready, he'd ask.  

I still firmly believe that "do it or else" (for anything not just proposals/marriage) should have no place in a healthy relationship.

holyguacamole79

thisismynickname said:

DH always said that a year of dating was his mark. If he was with a girl a year and didn't see a life with her, he'd break it off. Likewise, he told me within a year of us dating that he could see us being married, and I agreed. 

This was my DH.  We started talking (met online) in Feb 2012.  We met IRL a few weeks later (at that time he lived in Austin & I lived in Houston).  Shortly after we started dating, he said that within a year we'd either be engaged or broken up.  (He was 35 and I was 32 at the time).  We were married in Feb 2013.