Gay officiant

Knottie31038620

Ok, so my pastor ( who we asked to officiate) is Gay. and I thought that FI was ok with that. He even asked the if the pastor would like to officiate. He has now changed his mind about being ok with that. I don't know what to do!!!!!!! How do I handle this sudden change????

jacques27

Knottie31038620 said:

Ok, so my pastor ( who we asked to officiate) is Gay. and I thought that FI was ok with that. He even asked the if the pastor would like to officiate. He has now changed his mind about being ok with that. I don't know what to do!!!!!!! How do I handle this sudden change????

You don't have a "gay officiant" problem, you have an "about to marry a homophobe" problem.

So, spend some time in deep reflection and contemplation about whether that's an acceptable way to live your life and who you really want to legally bind your life to. And if that's something you can live with and want to continue to pursue, then you find a new officiant and live with the knowledge that you're complicit in prejudicial behavior. If that's not something you can live with, then you postpone or call off the wedding, try counseling if you think it will help, and engage in a series of long conversations about whether your values really match up and make you compatible long term.

climbingsingle

Knottie31038620 said:

Ok, so my pastor ( who we asked to officiate) is Gay. and I thought that FI was ok with that. He even asked the if the pastor would like to officiate. He has now changed his mind about being ok with that. I don't know what to do!!!!!!! How do I handle this sudden change????

What exactly has he said? I guess you'll have to decide if you're OK with being married to a homophobe.

kimmiinthemitten

Knottie31038620 said:

Ok, so my pastor ( who we asked to officiate) is Gay. and I thought that FI was ok with that. He even asked the if the pastor would like to officiate. He has now changed his mind about being ok with that. I don't know what to do!!!!!!! How do I handle this sudden change????

I'm guessing if you had to ask FI once if he's okay with a gay officiant, his homophobic views aren't a "sudden change" (or a dealbreaker to the OP since she agreed to marry him).

I wouldn't marry someone with those beliefs, but you obviously will so just find a new officiant.

mollybarker11

Have you explained to your FI that wedding officiants don't customarily partake in sex acts during the ceremony? That should clear things up.

CMGragain

Is he afraid that the pastor will make a pass at him? Or at you?

The minister who married us came out of the closet a few years afterwards. I think our marriage is still legal. We have been married 39 years.

Knottie31038620

Thank you so much for your kind and understanding words of wisdom. they were just what I needed when I was feeling vulnerable really thank you. Can you feel my sarcasm???? GOOD!
FI has been raised to believe that way, its not just him that feels that way but also a fair share of his family. I cannot control how they feel. it just is.I may not agree with it but I can respect other peoples feelings. I love it how people can say that I should look into postponing the wedding. Do you think I went into this engagement not discussing things like this? I understand how he feels and he understands that I feel differently. We agree to disagree. After all marriage is all about compromise is it not? He understands that he will not be able to change my beliefs and that I will not be able to change his. I was not looking for my fiance to be called a homophobe I was looking for honest advice in my time of need.

mollybarker11

Since you already knew your FI was a homophobe I'm guessing you feel so confused & vulnerable because he went from wanting something one minute and then stopped wanting it in a sudden change. I understand why that's upsetting to someone planning a future with him.

If you're looking for honest advice on how to tell your pastor you no longer want him officiating your ceremony I'm not really sure I have any. Sounds like a tough situation for you guys! Bet church will be awkward next week.

I do have advice for preventing more times of need though! I suggest contacting your other vendors (florists, caterers, musicians, etc.) to find out what kind of sex they're into just in case your FI changes his mind about them too. Maybe send a mass email and get it out of the way in one go. I'm sure you'll feel better about your plans once everything's straightened away.

southernbelle0915

Knottie31038620 said:

Thank you so much for your kind and understanding words of wisdom. they were just what I needed when I was feeling vulnerable really thank you. Can you feel my sarcasm???? GOOD!
FI has been raised to believe that way, its not just him that feels that way but also a fair share of his family. I cannot control how they feel. it just is.I may not agree with it but I can respect other peoples feelings. I love it how people can say that I should look into postponing the wedding. Do you think I went into this engagement not discussing things like this? I understand how he feels and he understands that I feel differently. We agree to disagree. After all marriage is all about compromise is it not? He understands that he will not be able to change my beliefs and that I will not be able to change his. I was not looking for my fiance to be called a homophobe I was looking for honest advice in my time of need.

Replace the word gay with black, handicapped, female...then you'll (hopefully) see why this is ridiculous. Tell him to deal with it.

Do you plan to gave children with him? What if your child is gay?

lnixon8

Knottie31038620 said:

Thank you so much for your kind and understanding words of wisdom. they were just what I needed when I was feeling vulnerable really thank you. Can you feel my sarcasm???? GOOD!
FI has been raised to believe that way, its not just him that feels that way but also a fair share of his family. I cannot control how they feel. it just is.I may not agree with it but I can respect other peoples feelings. I love it how people can say that I should look into postponing the wedding. Do you think I went into this engagement not discussing things like this? I understand how he feels and he understands that I feel differently. We agree to disagree. After all marriage is all about compromise is it not? He understands that he will not be able to change my beliefs and that I will not be able to change his. I was not looking for my fiance to be called a homophobe I was looking for honest advice in my time of need.

Box?
Obviously he was raised to be this way. It would be really odd if he became a homophobe on his own. Even if your child is not gay, do you want this cycle to continue and raise a person that is as prejudiced as your FI and future in laws?

kimmiinthemitten

Knottie31038620 said:

Thank you so much for your kind and understanding words of wisdom. they were just what I needed when I was feeling vulnerable really thank you. Can you feel my sarcasm???? GOOD!
FI has been raised to believe that way, its not just him that feels that way but also a fair share of his family. I cannot control how they feel. it just is.I may not agree with it but I can respect other peoples feelings. I love it how people can say that I should look into postponing the wedding. Do you think I went into this engagement not discussing things like this? I understand how he feels and he understands that I feel differently. We agree to disagree. After all marriage is all about compromise is it not? He understands that he will not be able to change my beliefs and that I will not be able to change his. I was not looking for my fiance to be called a homophobe I was looking for honest advice in my time of need.

You're welcome. My post was far bitchier than what I edited it down to.

My dad was very homophobic when I grew up, I never understood it. He even broke off his friendship with my sisters Godfather when he came out of the closet. However, as times changed, my dad realized how wrong it was to discriminate against someone for any reason, but especially over who they love and after a big show down after church, left his most recent congregation because the Pastor kept preaching against homosexuality. I've never been prouder of him. You're not raised to hate, it's a choice.

Like I said in my original post, this isn't a sudden change, you've known all along about your FI's belief system and it's okay with you. It's a deal breaker to me, so I can't give you advice. Nor will I coddle you and pet your hair while we pretend it's okay to be the type of person who systematically wants to deny other people happiness, legal and even social or religious benefits, in your case.

FYI - you don't like the word homophobe, because deep down you know we're right, but by definition, you're marrying a Homophobe(a person who hates or is afraid of homosexuals or treats them badly.)

climbingsingle

Knottie31038620 said:

Thank you so much for your kind and understanding words of wisdom. they were just what I needed when I was feeling vulnerable really thank you. Can you feel my sarcasm???? GOOD!
FI has been raised to believe that way, its not just him that feels that way but also a fair share of his family. I cannot control how they feel. it just is.I may not agree with it but I can respect other peoples feelings. I love it how people can say that I should look into postponing the wedding. Do you think I went into this engagement not discussing things like this? I understand how he feels and he understands that I feel differently. We agree to disagree. After all marriage is all about compromise is it not? He understands that he will not be able to change my beliefs and that I will not be able to change his. I was not looking for my fiance to be called a homophobe I was looking for honest advice in my time of need.

And you received honest advice. If you knew about his feelings regarding gay people, you really can't be that surprised that he's objecting to a gay pastor. What do you expect us to do for you?

I personally would never even consider dating a homophobe. But hey, that's just me. If you're OK with it, why are you here asking for advice??

PamBeesly524

I agree with @climbingwife, what advice are you asking for if you're fine with the situation? You want advice on what to do with the pastor? Honestly? I would just tell him why you don't want him to officiate, because you'd be doing him a favor. If I were him I wouldn't want anything to do with someone who hates me for something that has zero affect on them whatsoever.

GlamQueenBride

I'm glad you got the response you did because if you truly are not a homophobe yourself, then you're just as bad or worse by condoning it by marrying into this bigoted family. Are you going to raise a bunch of bigoted children too? You should seriously take a second look at yourself if you're even considering moving forward with this wedding despite this HUGE red flag that's popped up in your way.

Gay rights is real. It's happening, despite all the bellyaching from bigots. And in a decade or two, your children will look back on this and be ashamed of their father for being on the wrong side of history.

[Deleted User]

You received thoughtful and kind responses. Sorry that "problem with gay people" equates being a homophobe. Get used to that label, though, since you're marrying one. I mean, if "marriage is about compromise" and "everyone is entitled to their own opinion" be proud of that label! Get matching shirts that say "homophobe," take a picture and make it your profile picture. Nothing to be ashamed of! Also, problem solved with your gay pastor.


Compassion? Are you showing any compassion to community members who are LGBTQIA+ by defending your FI's homophobic beliefs? Many people face ongoing discrimination, abuse and bullying, and you come on here and say "fuck all the pain that homophobia has put you through, my FI is allowed to believe whatever he wants, I can't change how he thinks!" Where's your compassion?


You're in this mess because you are complicit in your FI's homophobic beliefs. You knew this the entire time, but hey, marriage is a compromise, so let's hide behind that platitude for awhile. Since you're not going to leave this asshole, the only right thing for you to do is respectfully approach your pastor, explain to him how much you fucked up, and let him remove you two toxic people from his life.


Was that compassionate enough for you?

holyguacamole79

I would talk to your FI and ask him to pinpoint the problem and what led him to change his mind. Is he afraid that this minister will somehow use your wedding as an opportunity to push an "agenda"? Is he concerned of how his family will react? I think once you try to get him to identify the issue, you can more rationally discuss why it truly is a "non issue".

ETA: If his change of heart was driven by something said by his parents or another family member, I suggest working on setting boundaries with his family. There is a very possible liklihood that at some point in your marriage you will do something they won't agree with (it may be as simple as deciding to celebrate Thanksgiving with your family instead of his). He'll need to work on how to draw a line and calmly explain that the two of you have made a decision as a couple and that you expect them to respect that decision.

drunkenwitch

"That's how he was raised" is no excuse. I was raised in a very homophobic family and I knew from day one their beliefs were absolute bullshit and told them so, over and over and over. Furthermore, I don't believe in showing to compassion to bigots or those who support and make excuses for them, my compassion is saved for the people bigots hurt with their words and actions.

You are choosing to marry someone with intolerant beliefs towards an entire group of people, what "honest advice" are you looking for?

jacques27

One person likes to live in the city, another likes to live in the country. You compromise by living in the suburbs where you're a nice equidistant drive from both.

One person wants to watch The Walking Dead and the other person wants to watch The Good Wife, so you watch one and DVR the other one to watch immediately after.

Those are compromises you make with another human being. The compromising you, OP, are making is compromising your own beliefs, presuming you are not also homophobic. Saying "I'm cool that you think gay people are inferior" isn't making a compromise, it's condoning homophobia. It speaks the very core of how your future husband regards people and speaks to the very core of how YOU regard people. Prejudiced isn't among the core traits of what I look for in a future spouse and it's certainly not behavior I choose to associate myself with, but you seem cool beans with it, so I'm not sure what you were looking for here - advice on how to make your fiancé not be a prejudiced homophobe? How to lie to your pastor about why you're choosing a new officiant?

You can use all the fluffy language you want ("not comfortable" and "just the way he was raised"), but it doesn't change what it actually is, it just makes it easier to live in denial about it.

ETA: I'm also super confused at the righteous indignation vs. utter and complete embarrassment over condoning homophobia. I mean, I think the average, reasonable person who is not homophobic would assume the panic in the original post was due to "OMG, I had no idea my fiancé was prejudiced against gay people!" instead of "OMG, my homophobic fiancé is continuing to be homophobic which should be of no surprise to me and I'm totally cool with that but it puts me in a pickle finding a pastor who likes to put his penis in vaginas on such short notice!"

mileybangerz

But does he have a gay wallet?

CMGragain

My mother was a racist. I am not.
My MIL was a snob. Her son (my husband) is not.

Being an adult mean accepting the responsibility for your own beliefs.

MesmrEwe

holyguacamole79 said:

I would talk to your FI and ask him to pinpoint the problem and what led him to change his mind. Is he afraid that this minister will somehow use your wedding as an opportunity to push an "agenda"? Is he concerned of how his family will react? I think once you try to get him to identify the issue, you can more rationally discuss why it truly is a "non issue".

ETA: If his change of heart was driven by something said by his parents or another family member, I suggest working on setting boundaries with his family. There is a very possible liklihood that at some point in your marriage you will do something they won't agree with (it may be as simple as deciding to celebrate Thanksgiving with your family instead of his). He'll need to work on how to draw a line and calmly explain that the two of you have made a decision as a couple and that you expect them to respect that decision.

Boxes!!! ARGH!

So much This^^^^^^

"Ask until" you get to the heart of the real objection for why he flip-flopped on having her officiate over your ceremony. It very well could be what someone else said to him and he's trying to avoid conflict/confrontation and really may not be a "with him" issue. It could be a family member thinking preachers should only be men. It could just be something ENTIRELY unrelated to her status, he may just not like her preaching style after having attended services with her a few more weeks. Get him to verbalize what the objection is (who knows, maybe he's trying to protect her from his family!), and don't make any assumptions until you do so, and only then figure out what's next from there.

AddieCake

I agree you need to find out exactly why he changed his mind. What church will you be attending after the wedding? Still this one with the gay pastor? Does your fiancé go to church?

TheCheeseWench

Knottie31038620 said:

Thank you so much for your kind and understanding words of wisdom. they were just what I needed when I was feeling vulnerable really thank you. Can you feel my sarcasm???? GOOD!
FI has been raised to believe that way, its not just him that feels that way but also a fair share of his family. I cannot control how they feel. it just is.I may not agree with it but I can respect other peoples feelings. I love it how people can say that I should look into postponing the wedding. Do you think I went into this engagement not discussing things like this? I understand how he feels and he understands that I feel differently. We agree to disagree. After all marriage is all about compromise is it not? He understands that he will not be able to change my beliefs and that I will not be able to change his. I was not looking for my fiance to be called a homophobe I was looking for honest advice in my time of need.

You got honest advice. It is a bad idea to marry a homophobe, which unfortunately what your fiance and his family are. If you have known this about them and have discussed it, I'm not sure what you are looking for here. The honest advice is that you NEED to think again before marrying into a family with such beliefs, unless you too are homophobic.

Like the PP said, would you marry someone who was prejudiced against black people? Would you justify it because his great great grandfather owned slaves and so his family has just all "grown up that way"? No. This is no different.

Q: How do I handle this sudden change?
A: Think long and hard about whether you are REALLY okay becoming Mrs. (and perhaps someday Mother) Bigot.

Maggie0829

I am not sure why him changing his mind about your officiant seems sudden or is surprising. You knew his and his families feelings on those who are gay so really this change of heart is something that you should have expected.

JediElizabeth

Here's some *compassionate* advice for you: Ask your pastor, your religious leader and someone you (hopefully) see as a moral compass about this problem. Ask another leader of your church. See what they have to say.

I assure you, hearing these words from strangers on the internet is much better than having to face your religious community with this same question, and likely the same opinions. Which is probably why you came here instead of there in the first place.

100yroldblinddog

JediElizabeth said:

Here's some *compassionate* advice for you: Ask your pastor, your religious leader and someone you (hopefully) see as a moral compass about this problem. Ask another leader of your church. See what they have to say.

I assure you, hearing these words from strangers on the internet is much better than having to face your religious community with this same question, and likely the same opinions. Which is probably why you came here instead of there in the first place.

Not a bad idea @JediElizabeth; some counseling here would probably avert other future issues too. OP should take FI with her since she shouldn't be saddled with his bullshit alone.

If he still doesn't come to his senses, FI should also be the one to tell the pastor that HE is deciding against the pastor for HIS own small-minded reasons. 

redoryx

Knottie31038620 said:

Thank you so much for your kind and understanding words of wisdom. they were just what I needed when I was feeling vulnerable really thank you. Can you feel my sarcasm???? GOOD! FI has been raised to believe that way, its not just him that feels that way but also a fair share of his family. I cannot control how they feel. it just is.I may not agree with it but I can respect other peoples feelings. I love it how people can say that I should look into postponing the wedding. Do you think I went into this engagement not discussing things like this? I understand how he feels and he understands that I feel differently. We agree to disagree. After all marriage is all about compromise is it not? He understands that he will not be able to change my beliefs and that I will not be able to change his. I was not looking for my fiance to be called a homophobe I was looking for honest advice in my time of need.

You're confusing "respect" with "acknowledging." You can acknowledge that your FI was raised in an environment that supported homophobia. You can acknowledge that your FI continues to share a homophobic belief system. 

But, no, you don't have to respect those feelings. Not when those feelings come at the expense of other people. I have family who are very much on the other side of the political fence than I am and we agree to disagree about these things. We have polite discussions, but we are both aware that neither of us is going to change the mind of the other. They are family, I love them, but, no, I don't respect their choice -- and it is a choice -- to look down on certain members of this shared community of humankind. 
When my former pastor came out (I'm openly atheist now) I was the one person, the one person, in my entire family to support him. You asked this man to officiate your wedding, which means you must regard him as a relatively important person in your life -- so ask yourself what choice and statement you are making if you unask him to officiate. 

If my FI had a problem with a gay officiant, you bet your ass I'd be having a #ByeFelicia conversation -- and it wouldn't be the officiant I'd be saying bye to.  

Heffalump

CMGragain said:

My mother was a racist. I am not. My MIL was a snob. Her son (my husband) is not. Being an adult mean accepting the responsibility for your own beliefs.

Amen to that.  The first time I met MIL, in the course of our conversation she said (exact quote) "I stopped watching All My Children when they turned Erica's daughter queer" and when on to talk about how disgusting it was.  I was thrown, but DH just made a face and said "Mom, enough, stop" and changed the subject.

So no, the fact that someone's parents are bigoted doesn't automatically mean that they are, too.  Your FI is old enough now that he is choosing his attitudes and behaviors, and that is 100% on him. I think you both need to own that.

GlamQueenBride

I have to say I love that we're at a point in history where being a bigot is ostracized. Finally. The OP may want to think about that before she has kids with this man. It sucks to grow up not respecting your father.

InLoveInQueens

GlamQueenBride said:

I have to say I love that we're at a point in history where being a bigot is ostracized. Finally. The OP may want to think about that before she has kids with this man. It sucks to grow up not respecting your father.

Or if they have a gay child, what then?

MegEn1

OP -- second all the questions here about what exactly you're looking for advice on. Do you want advice on how to break the news to your pastor, or advice on how to handle your FI in this instance?

Either way, I would recommend pre-marital counselling. This isn't, as someone posted above, about trying to compromise about what you want for dinner. These are two different ideological views on life. Does that mean you should call off your wedding and kick him to the curb? I don't think so. But it does mean that you both need to have a very clear understanding about what is to be expected from this very sticky area of your relationship.

Not quite a perfect example, but here: My mother was a racist. I didn't know until after she died when my father told me. Why? Because my mother had her beliefs, but she also believed that she shouldn't push her ideas on others or treat people badly -- particularly in front of her daughter. I brought black friends home after school to play, and she'd feed us snacks and make us do our homework and kick us outside until it was dark and the parents came the same as she would with any other friends of any other ethnicity. Were her beliefs wrong? Yes. But in my mind being tolerant is to accept that other people in the world have bad or wrong ideologies or outlooks and being able to move on as long as they don't mistreat other people based on that.