30 Minute Religious Ceremony

Knottie00267128

So my fiance and I met with my cousin, who is a military chaplain and will be performing our ceremony, this past weekend to discuss what we want in the actual ceremony. 

We both agreed beforehand that we wanted a simply, to the point ceremony that lasted no more than 30 minutes.

My cousin states that while the ceremonies he does are "worship services celebrating the entity of marriage" they are also "fairly short, no more than 45-60 minutes" Whoa...hold on...

My fiance and I are both somewhat religious and my family is very much so, so we are fine with having a faith-focused ceremony, but definitely had a different idea of what "fairly short" would mean.

Any tips on cutting the time down?

We're not doing a unity candle or sand ceremony and we only have 3 attendants each, so I don't think the processional/recessional is going to take that long. I'm willing to tell them to walk quickly, haha!

OliveOilsMom

Knottie00267128 said:

So my fiance and I met with my cousin, who is a military chaplain and will be performing our ceremony, this past weekend to discuss what we want in the actual ceremony. 

We both agreed beforehand that we wanted a simply, to the point ceremony that lasted no more than 30 minutes.

My cousin states that while the ceremonies he does are "worship services celebrating the entity of marriage" they are also "fairly short, no more than 45-60 minutes" Whoa...hold on...

My fiance and I are both somewhat religious and my family is very much so, so we are fine with having a faith-focused ceremony, but definitely had a different idea of what "fairly short" would mean.

Any tips on cutting the time down?

We're not doing a unity candle or sand ceremony and we only have 3 attendants each, so I don't think the processional/recessional is going to take that long. I'm willing to tell them to walk quickly, haha!

What denomination is this chaplain?  That could help explain why his typical ceremony is 45-60 minutes.  He also said "worship services", that usually means its a typical Sunday service type mass, so then add on the wedding ceremony and you are looking at 45-60 minutes.

Can you ask FI's cousin for an outline of the ceremony?  That could tell you what he has in mind.  You can then speak to him about what you want changed. 

But remember that he also may not want to alter his typical wedding service.  He is a pastor and he may only be allowed to perform a wedding service that is outlined by his religious affiliation.  For example, a Catholic priest can only perform wedding ceremonies in accordance with the Catholic faith, failure to do so can have big consequences for him. 

And if that is the case, then it becomes what do you want more?  Cousin to perform the ceremony or having the ceremony you want, without cousin officiating.  I would go with having the ceremony you want, especially if neither of you are religious.  You can always ask cousin to perform a blessing prior to the reception meal.

justsie

Have you asked him what those 45-60 minutes typically consist of for him? Knowing that will help us tell you what to cut down on. 

holyguacamole79

Knottie00267128 said:

So my fiance and I met with my cousin, who is a military chaplain and will be performing our ceremony, this past weekend to discuss what we want in the actual ceremony. 

We both agreed beforehand that we wanted a simply, to the point ceremony that lasted no more than 30 minutes.

My cousin states that while the ceremonies he does are "worship services celebrating the entity of marriage" they are also "fairly short, no more than 45-60 minutes" Whoa...hold on...

My fiance and I are both somewhat religious and my family is very much so, so we are fine with having a faith-focused ceremony, but definitely had a different idea of what "fairly short" would mean.

Any tips on cutting the time down?

We're not doing a unity candle or sand ceremony and we only have 3 attendants each, so I don't think the processional/recessional is going to take that long. I'm willing to tell them to walk quickly, haha!

First off, coming from a Catholic who is used to a full Mass at weddings, 45-60 minutes is "normal" for me.   

In all seriousness, ask him what all his cermony normally includes, then go from there.  Does he have multiple hymns?  A long sermon / teaching?  Readings?  Find out what constitutes this "fairly short" ceremony and go from there.  My brother's wedding was officiated by a Christian minister (was not Catholic) and they had 3 attendants on each side.  They included a brief reflection on marriage, a short scripture reading, vows, exchange of rings, and a sand ceremony.  It was 30 minutes tops.  What you're envisioning is totally feasible.

Is your cousin affiliated with a certatin denomination / church that may have requirements of what needs to be included in a wedding ceremony?  (I've only heard of this with Catholic priests, but you never know ....)

ETA:  @OliveOilsMom , great minds think alike!!

Knottie00267128

To clarify, my cousin is Presbyterian. I was raised Protestant (non-presbyterian), so I'm not sure what a typical Pres. service is like.

He gave us an outline, which includes a 10-15 sermon (best word for it, i guess), plus scripture readings, vows, hymns, a benediction (idk what this means), and a few other things.

STARMOON44

10-15 minutes is very long for a sermon at a wedding. Do you need multiple hymns? A benediction is the blessing at the end of the service and it's usually very short.

Jen4948

Maybe ask him to eliminate some of the hymns and scripture readings, especially if they include anything you're not comfortable with.

holyguacamole79

I agree with @STARMOON44 ... 10-15 minutes for a sermon is crazy long.  Ours was maybe 5 minutes.  Maybe.  I was at a Protestant wedding a few years ago and the sermon was easily 10 minutes long.  Nobody was listening (it didn't help that the wedding was outside in June in Texas with no shade).  I was at a Protestant church wedding for a friend a few years ago ... I don't recall the service being longer than 30 minutes (and the sermon was minimal).

I'd definitely sit down with the cousin and come to a middle-ground.

CMGragain

I have played organ for weddings at many denominations, and, except for Catholic weddings, the entire ceremony would take about 20 - 25 minutes.

thisismynickname2

Chiming in; we had a faith focused ceremony that lasted about 20 or 25 minutes. We had a couple readings, a few prayers and a blessing, and a maybe 5 minute sermon, plus fairly traditional Christian vows. No singing. Can be done! 

artbyallie

Maybe it's just me, but IMO sermons don't belong at weddings. We didn't have one. Baptist church, FWIW. We've only attended one wedding that had a sermon and it felt very out of place.

holyguacamole79

artbyallie said:

Maybe it's just me, but IMO sermons don't belong at weddings. We didn't have one. Baptist church, FWIW. We've only attended one wedding that had a sermon and it felt very out of place.

I see your point ... I guess the question could be what qualifies as a "sermon".  I imagine that as a Baptist, you're used to a different kind of sermon than what we had at our wedding (that statement is totally based on my experience on sermons given by Baptists).  Our priest reflected on marriage and on the scripture readings we chose.  It wasn't preachy (at least, I didn't think so) and wasn't meant to be a "teaching" of sorts.  I have been to some a few weddings where the officiant was more Evangelical and the sermon was VERY preachy and it made me uncomfortable, so I see where you're coming from.

lovesclimbing

We had a Protestant ceremony and it was 20 minutes or so long. We had a "sermon" in that the pastor spoke for about 5 minutes or less on what marriage is and what the Bible says about marriage, although I do not consider that to be a sermon. I think a full-on sermon is not necessary and overkill for a marriage ceremony. I'm also not a big fan of weddings that are turned into a sort of Sunday morning church service with the sermon and several songs.

CMGragain

At my daughter's Christian church wedding, the minister was so delighted by the presence of so many atheists and pagans, she went into an explanation of the symbolism of the ceremony, and included a handfasting done with a scarf with Christian symbols!  I think the minister decided it was her big chance to lure in some non-believers!

artbyallie

holyguacamole79 said:

artbyallie said:

Maybe it's just me, but IMO sermons don't belong at weddings. We didn't have one. Baptist church, FWIW. We've only attended one wedding that had a sermon and it felt very out of place.

I see your point ... I guess the question could be what qualifies as a "sermon".  I imagine that as a Baptist, you're used to a different kind of sermon than what we had at our wedding (that statement is totally based on my experience on sermons given by Baptists).  Our priest reflected on marriage and on the scripture readings we chose.  It wasn't preachy (at least, I didn't think so) and wasn't meant to be a "teaching" of sorts.  I have been to some a few weddings where the officiant was more Evangelical and the sermon was VERY preachy and it made me uncomfortable, so I see where you're coming from.

"Preachy" or not, my point is more that sermons are for people who deliberately choose to attend the church in question. People who are invited to a wedding may not be of the same faith or even interested in the same faith, so delivering any sort of message other than "these two people are married" is IMO inappropriate. I don't even remember what exactly was said at the one I mentioned previously since it was five years ago, but I recall being uncomfortable. That said, while we no longer attend the Baptist church, I have had Baptist pastors in the past who were never 'preachy.' I still would not have wanted them to give a sermon (even the beloved pastor who could give a fantastic and impactful one in a very short time) at my wedding.

ETA: To clarify, it is the captive audience part that makes it out of place. Sermons are for those who have come to hear them.

STARMOON44

I strongly disagree that sermons and singing and churchy stuff don't belong at weddings. A sermon is done at every wedding in my church. It's usually about 5 minutes and talks about marriage, and the couple, in the context of the readings they have selected. Hymns are sung. Communion may be offered although this is less frequent.

There's nothing inappropriate about having a wedding in your faith, even if that means some of your guests don't like it. They always have the option to skip the ceremony if they aren't comfortable being in a church, or even to quietly step out if they aren't comfortable with a particular portion.

holyguacamole79

artbyallie said:

holyguacamole79 said:

artbyallie said:

Maybe it's just me, but IMO sermons don't belong at weddings. We didn't have one. Baptist church, FWIW. We've only attended one wedding that had a sermon and it felt very out of place.

I see your point ... I guess the question could be what qualifies as a "sermon".  I imagine that as a Baptist, you're used to a different kind of sermon than what we had at our wedding (that statement is totally based on my experience on sermons given by Baptists).  Our priest reflected on marriage and on the scripture readings we chose.  It wasn't preachy (at least, I didn't think so) and wasn't meant to be a "teaching" of sorts.  I have been to some a few weddings where the officiant was more Evangelical and the sermon was VERY preachy and it made me uncomfortable, so I see where you're coming from.

"Preachy" or not, my point is more that sermons are for people who deliberately choose to attend the church in question. People who are invited to a wedding may not be of the same faith or even interested in the same faith, so delivering any sort of message other than "these two people are married" is IMO inappropriate. I don't even remember what exactly was said at the one I mentioned previously since it was five years ago, but I recall being uncomfortable. That said, while we no longer attend the Baptist church, I have had Baptist pastors in the past who were never 'preachy.' I still would not have wanted them to give a sermon (even the beloved pastor who could give a fantastic and impactful one in a very short time) at my wedding.

ETA: To clarify, it is the captive audience part that makes it out of place. Sermons are for those who have come to hear them.

I've been to several non-religious weddings and the officiant has delivered more than a "these two people are married" on all occasions.  The reflections weren't religious in nature, but they were still more than just the "do you?  Do you?  Good, you're married; Kiss her"  (name that movie!).  I guess it's just common to have the officiant say something (at least that's my experience).

Also, isn't the standard advice that if a couple wants a religious service, that decision is for them?  If someone told me to have our priest nix the homily out of fear that someone would be offended because it was religious, I would not have complied.  That's just who we are.  Had our priest gone into full-on preaching mode, I would've been disappointed (even on a regular Sunday, this priest would not have done that ... not his style.  Which is probably why I love him so much!)

levioosa

CMGragain said:

At my daughter's Christian church wedding, the minister was so delighted by the presence of so many atheists and pagans, she went into an explanation of the symbolism of the ceremony, and included a handfasting done with a scarf with Christian symbols!  I think the minister decided it was her big chance to lure in some non-believers!

I'm sorry, but a wedding is not a time for an alter call.  Even as a Christian, I hate when wedding sermons turn into being voraciously preached at.  I can only imagine how uncomfortable that made your daughter's atheist friends.  

CMGragain

levioosa said:

CMGragain said:

At my daughter's Christian church wedding, the minister was so delighted by the presence of so many atheists and pagans, she went into an explanation of the symbolism of the ceremony, and included a handfasting done with a scarf with Christian symbols!  I think the minister decided it was her big chance to lure in some non-believers!

I'm sorry, but a wedding is not a time for an alter call.  Even as a Christian, I hate when wedding sermons turn into being voraciously preached at.  I can only imagine how uncomfortable that made your daughter's atheist friends.  

Really, they enjoyed it.  Some of them told me that they didn't know about the symbolism of Christian marriage.  Don't, get me wrong, there was no pressure.  No hell, fire and brimstone, or anything like it.  One of our guests was Jewish, and he said that he had never been to a Christian church wedding before.  He was fascinated.  He did think it was a bit long, compared to the Jewish ceremonies he was used to attending.  Good thing it wasn't a Catholic Mass!

ClaraGrace

I was going to ask how you get a ceremony done in 30 minutes.  Oh yeah, no Mass.  

I've sat through more than a few non Catholic weddings.  But I can't remember any with a wedding homily over 5 minutes, and a large majority were very short.

CMGragain

Nope!  Methodist wedding.  We are very inclusive in our church.

Jen4948

STARMOON44 said:

I strongly disagree that sermons and singing and churchy stuff don't belong at weddings. A sermon is done at every wedding in my church. It's usually about 5 minutes and talks about marriage, and the couple, in the context of the readings they have selected. Hymns are sung. Communion may be offered although this is less frequent.

There's nothing inappropriate about having a wedding in your faith, even if that means some of your guests don't like it. They always have the option to skip the ceremony if they aren't comfortable being in a church, or even to quietly step out if they aren't comfortable with a particular portion.

I think it depends. I would not be okay with any kind of Adam's rib-submissive wife or gays-nonbelievers-and-nontraditionalists-are going-to-hell sermons, because the persons attending my wedding are my guests and that makes me responsible not only for their physical comfort but also their mental comfort. Telling them to get up and walk out is IMO not just dropping the ball in the latter area but throwing it away altogether.

There are some subjects that IMO are not appropriate for sermons at weddings when persons of different backgrounds will be present, like the ones I listed above, and I think it's up to the couple to make sure they aren't used in sermons at their wedding.

STARMOON44

Jen4948 said:

STARMOON44 said:

I strongly disagree that sermons and singing and churchy stuff don't belong at weddings. A sermon is done at every wedding in my church. It's usually about 5 minutes and talks about marriage, and the couple, in the context of the readings they have selected. Hymns are sung. Communion may be offered although this is less frequent.

There's nothing inappropriate about having a wedding in your faith, even if that means some of your guests don't like it. They always have the option to skip the ceremony if they aren't comfortable being in a church, or even to quietly step out if they aren't comfortable with a particular portion.

I think it depends. I would not be okay with any kind of Adam's rib-submissive wife or gays-nonbelievers-and-nontraditionalists-are going-to-hell sermons, because the persons attending my wedding are my guests and that makes me responsible not only for their physical comfort but also their mental comfort. Telling them to get up and walk out is IMO not just dropping the ball in the latter area but throwing it away altogether.

There are some subjects that IMO are not appropriate for sermons at weddings when persons of different backgrounds will be present, like the ones I listed above, and I think it's up to the couple to make sure they aren't used in sermons at their wedding.

But that's a different issue. Sermons generally are fine. Being hateful generally is not.

Jen4948

STARMOON44 said:

Jen4948 said:

STARMOON44 said:

I strongly disagree that sermons and singing and churchy stuff don't belong at weddings. A sermon is done at every wedding in my church. It's usually about 5 minutes and talks about marriage, and the couple, in the context of the readings they have selected. Hymns are sung. Communion may be offered although this is less frequent.

There's nothing inappropriate about having a wedding in your faith, even if that means some of your guests don't like it. They always have the option to skip the ceremony if they aren't comfortable being in a church, or even to quietly step out if they aren't comfortable with a particular portion.

I think it depends. I would not be okay with any kind of Adam's rib-submissive wife or gays-nonbelievers-and-nontraditionalists-are going-to-hell sermons, because the persons attending my wedding are my guests and that makes me responsible not only for their physical comfort but also their mental comfort. Telling them to get up and walk out is IMO not just dropping the ball in the latter area but throwing it away altogether.

There are some subjects that IMO are not appropriate for sermons at weddings when persons of different backgrounds will be present, like the ones I listed above, and I think it's up to the couple to make sure they aren't used in sermons at their wedding.

But that's a different issue. Sermons generally are fine. Being hateful generally is not.

Exactly. That's why I said that whether or not a sermon or any other religious material is okay in a wedding depends on the content. Some is, some isn't.

Viczaesar

CMGragain said:

At my daughter's Christian church wedding, the minister was so delighted by the presence of so many atheists and pagans, she went into an explanation of the symbolism of the ceremony, and included a handfasting done with a scarf with Christian symbols!  I think the minister decided it was her big chance to lure in some non-believers!

I would have been so angry at that.

redoryx

CMGragain said:

At my daughter's Christian church wedding, the minister was so delighted by the presence of so many atheists and pagans, she went into an explanation of the symbolism of the ceremony, and included a handfasting done with a scarf with Christian symbols!  I think the minister decided it was her big chance to lure in some non-believers!

Did the minister actually indicate that or is that just your interpretation? I'm okay with a clergy person explaining to a congregation that is made up of different backgrounds and beliefs why certain things are happening and the meaning behind them -- my relatives are nearly all Catholic and the bulletin they hand out at weddings always includes information about the Eucharist and why non-Catholics are not allowed to take it -- but I'd be pissed if the minister saw a wedding as a sales opportunity to convert us heathens. 

CMGragain

CMGragain said:

At my daughter's Christian church wedding, the minister was so delighted by the presence of so many atheists and pagans, she went into an explanation of the symbolism of the ceremony, and included a handfasting done with a scarf with Christian symbols!  I think the minister decided it was her big chance to lure in some non-believers!

JMHO!

Jen4948

OP, one other thing to consider: Your 30 minute ceremony needs to include any legally required wording by your jurisdiction. Make sure your officiant is aware of that and does so.

OliveOilsMom

holyguacamole79 said:

artbyallie said:

holyguacamole79 said:

artbyallie said:

Maybe it's just me, but IMO sermons don't belong at weddings. We didn't have one. Baptist church, FWIW. We've only attended one wedding that had a sermon and it felt very out of place.

I see your point ... I guess the question could be what qualifies as a "sermon".  I imagine that as a Baptist, you're used to a different kind of sermon than what we had at our wedding (that statement is totally based on my experience on sermons given by Baptists).  Our priest reflected on marriage and on the scripture readings we chose.  It wasn't preachy (at least, I didn't think so) and wasn't meant to be a "teaching" of sorts.  I have been to some a few weddings where the officiant was more Evangelical and the sermon was VERY preachy and it made me uncomfortable, so I see where you're coming from.

"Preachy" or not, my point is more that sermons are for people who deliberately choose to attend the church in question. People who are invited to a wedding may not be of the same faith or even interested in the same faith, so delivering any sort of message other than "these two people are married" is IMO inappropriate. I don't even remember what exactly was said at the one I mentioned previously since it was five years ago, but I recall being uncomfortable. That said, while we no longer attend the Baptist church, I have had Baptist pastors in the past who were never 'preachy.' I still would not have wanted them to give a sermon (even the beloved pastor who could give a fantastic and impactful one in a very short time) at my wedding.

ETA: To clarify, it is the captive audience part that makes it out of place. Sermons are for those who have come to hear them.

I've been to several non-religious weddings and the officiant has delivered more than a "these two people are married" on all occasions.  The reflections weren't religious in nature, but they were still more than just the "do you?  Do you?  Good, you're married; Kiss her"  (name that movie!).  I guess it's just common to have the officiant say something (at least that's my experience).

Also, isn't the standard advice that if a couple wants a religious service, that decision is for them?  If someone told me to have our priest nix the homily out of fear that someone would be offended because it was religious, I would not have complied.  That's just who we are.  Had our priest gone into full-on preaching mode, I would've been disappointed (even on a regular Sunday, this priest would not have done that ... not his style.  Which is probably why I love him so much!)

It was the short, short version.  Spaceballs!

Knottie00267128

Lots of great input here! Thank you all!

I guess I'm struggling with how to tell him, as a relative that I'm not super close with, how I really want him to cut out 15 minutes of his routine, not mention homosexuality, or submissiveness, or give a altar call, etc. without offending him/having him refuse to do the ceremony and causing trouble within the family.

Before anyone asks, "Why did you ask him to perform the ceremony in the first place?" I did so upon the suggestion of my father (the main reason we are having a more religious ceremony) and because we didn't really have anyone else to do it. I didn't realize the cousin was so conservative before I asked him, or I probably would've hired an actor who was licensed to perform weddings to pretend to my pastor and who would say exactly what I wanted them to. 

I wish I could start my wedding planning journey over and do so many things differently.

holyguacamole79

Knottie00267128 said:

Lots of great input here! Thank you all!

I guess I'm struggling with how to tell him, as a relative that I'm not super close with, how I really want him to cut out 15 minutes of his routine, not mention homosexuality, or submissiveness, or give a altar call, etc. without offending him/having him refuse to do the ceremony and causing trouble within the family.

Before anyone asks, "Why did you ask him to perform the ceremony in the first place?" I did so upon the suggestion of my father (the main reason we are having a more religious ceremony) and because we didn't really have anyone else to do it. I didn't realize the cousin was so conservative before I asked him, or I probably would've hired an actor who was licensed to perform weddings to pretend to my pastor and who would say exactly what I wanted them to. 

I wish I could start my wedding planning journey over and do so many things differently.

First off, are you positive that his sermon would include those topics?  The 10 minute sermon I heard (from what I remember) was about the basic history of Christianity (from Adam & Eve to St Paul & the disciples) and how it relates to marriage.  There was no mentiton of any the topics you mentioned above.  

If you go into the discussion saying "we don't want x, y, z" and those topics weren't even on his "radar", he could become defensive and make things more difficult.  I'd start off by saying, "Hey Tim - it seems like 10-15 minutes for a sermon is quite long.  Is there any way to shorten the message to 5 minutes?"  See where it goes from there.