Etiquette

Adults-only wedding

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Re: Adults-only wedding

  • CMGragain said:
    STARMOON44 said, "The purpose of etiquette has never been making good manners accessible to everyone. It has always been a method of excluding "those people."

    Rich people made the rules, and now all of us have to follow them or we are being rude?"

    Who the hell told you this shit?  It is completely untrue, and it is also snobbish to think that "rich people" (a tacky term) want to exclude others. 

    I have known lovely people from all different classes.  The kindest, nicest lady I ever met was a Senator's wife who was visiting the country club where I was working as a maid.  We became friends, and she saw  me occasionally when I married and moved to Washington.  The rudest, most awful person I ever met was also wealthy, and wanted to be sure that everyone knew how superior he was, and how much money he had!  This is NOT good etiquette!  (No, I'm not talking about the DONALD.)

    The privileged girls from the private school I attended on scholarship never excluded me, or made the class difference known in any way.  The girls in the public school teased me for not having fashionable clothes and the "right" shoes.  Who was being snobbish and exclusive?

    I am surprised at you, STARMOON44.  I thought you knew better than this.  The most important rules of etiquette were taught by a working class carpenter's son from Galilee.
    Other religions, besides yours, also have ettique. I have also known atheists who are wonderful people. Shocking. What in the bloody blue blazes does Jesus have to do with this?

    Jesus wasn't about etiquette at all. Dude totally negged on a dry wedding and insisted that they serve wine instead and waltzed into the temple and just threw over other people's perfectly good tables. 
    It wasn't a dry wedding, they ran out of of wine -  embarrassing. He then turned water into wine. The guests commented on how they saved the best wine for last, not a common practice, bc you let people get drunk and then bring out the cheap stuff. So he was helping the host out etiquette wise. Not being a rude jerk bringing a giant flask to an actual dry wedding.

    I don't know why I felt compelled to right that misconception, but I did...I blame it on the wine I drank at the not-dry super bowl party.


    Ummm ya think? Has no one heard of sarcasm? Jesus was a deeply socially disruptive figure who ignored the fundamental etiquette rules of his society. Painting him as the father of modern etiquette is offensive. 
  • Jesus said to treat other people as you wish they would treat you.
    Jesus said to not throw stones.
    Jesus sat down and ate dinner with all kinds of people - sinners, all.  He treated them with respect.
    Jesus said to love your enemies, and treat everybody equally.
    Jesus wanted people to enjoy God's gifts.  Wine at weddings is fine with Him!

    Now, this is good etiquette.
    httpiimgurcomTCCjW0wjpg
  • photokittyphotokitty where I want to be
    Moderator Tenth Anniversary 5000 Comments 500 Love Its
    mod
    edited February 2016


    Jesus wasn't about etiquette at all. Dude totally negged on a dry wedding and insisted that they serve wine instead and waltzed into the temple and just threw over other people's perfectly good tables. 
    It wasn't a dry wedding, they ran out of of wine -  embarrassing. He then turned water into wine. The guests commented on how they saved the best wine for last, not a common practice, bc you let people get drunk and then bring out the cheap stuff. So he was helping the host out etiquette wise. Not being a rude jerk bringing a giant flask to an actual dry wedding.

    I don't know why I felt compelled to right that misconception, but I did...I blame it on the wine I drank at the not-dry super bowl party.


    Ummm ya think? Has no one heard of sarcasm? Jesus was a deeply socially disruptive figure who ignored the fundamental etiquette rules of his society. Painting him as the father of modern etiquette is offensive. 
    Of all things Jesus had been painted as lately, the father of modern etiquette isn't the one I'd get up in arms about.

    Also, please use the approved sarcasm font if you are going to be that subtle. Or take that suggested nap/ice cream.
    :kiss: ~xoxo~ :kiss:

  • drunkenwitchdrunkenwitch
    1000 Comments 500 Love Its Third Anniversary First Answer
    member
    edited February 2016
    CMGragain said:
    Jesus said to treat other people as you wish they would treat you.
    Jesus said to not throw stones.
    Jesus sat down and ate dinner with all kinds of people - sinners, all.  He treated them with respect.
    Jesus said to love your enemies, and treat everybody equally.
    Jesus wanted people to enjoy God's gifts.  Wine at weddings is fine with Him!

    Now, this is good etiquette.
    Wow, I just can't.  I'll go hang out with the other heathens since apparently only christians have manners. 

    JediElizabethSTARMOON44Sherbie25
  • { Continues to purposefully avoid the Jesus-etiquette debate by supplying weird facts.}

    The notion of good hospitality dates far, far back. I know from my studies of ancient history that it was pretty much THE most valued virtue of the Ancient Greeks, and some of the best hosts of mythology were poor (Baucis and Philemon, for example). If you screwed up hospitality as either a host or guest, it was basically a given that the gods would disapprove and you were set up for failure. See yet another wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenia_(Greek)
    Thank you.

    kimmiinthemittenSTARMOON44charlotte989875
  • Personally, I'm thinking that etiquette started with the cave people.  If you didn't mind your manners, you didn't get to eat any bison meat.
    httpiimgurcomTCCjW0wjpg
  • CMGragain said:
    Personally, I'm thinking that etiquette started with the cave people.  If you didn't mind your manners, you didn't get to eat any bison meat.
    Too late to back pedal darlin


    STARMOON44
  • @drunkenwitch , check your PMs. 
    httpiimgurcomTCCjW0wjpg
  • ViczaesarViczaesar Central Coast, CA
    Eighth Anniversary 5000 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    member
    Well this got interesting.  As someone who teaches about Jesus (etc.) for a living I feel like I should have an opinion on this, but I have a headache so I'm just going to say cheers and go to bed instead.



  • CMGragain said:
    STARMOON44 said, "The purpose of etiquette has never been making good manners accessible to everyone. It has always been a method of excluding "those people."

    Rich people made the rules, and now all of us have to follow them or we are being rude?"

    Who the hell told you this shit?  It is completely untrue, and it is also snobbish to think that "rich people" (a tacky term) want to exclude others. 

    I have known lovely people from all different classes.  The kindest, nicest lady I ever met was a Senator's wife who was visiting the country club where I was working as a maid.  We became friends, and she saw  me occasionally when I married and moved to Washington.  The rudest, most awful person I ever met was also wealthy, and wanted to be sure that everyone knew how superior he was, and how much money he had!  This is NOT good etiquette!  (No, I'm not talking about the DONALD.)

    The privileged girls from the private school I attended on scholarship never excluded me, or made the class difference known in any way.  The girls in the public school teased me for not having fashionable clothes and the "right" shoes.  Who was being snobbish and exclusive?

    I am surprised at you, STARMOON44.  I thought you knew better than this.  The most important rules of etiquette were taught by a working class carpenter's son from Galilee.
    Other religions, besides yours, also have ettique. I have also known atheists who are wonderful people. Shocking. What in the bloody blue blazes does Jesus have to do with this?
    I'm a dyed in the wool heathen and I know my etiquette very well (thank you grandma). Trust me, religion does not have a monopoly on etiquette. 
    PrettyGirlLost
  • Other religions, besides yours, also have ettique. I have also known atheists who are wonderful people. Shocking. What in the bloody blue blazes does Jesus have to do with this?
    I'm a dyed in the wool heathen and I know my etiquette very well (thank you grandma). Trust me, religion does not have a monopoly on etiquette. 
     As I mentioned in a comment above, lots of religions and philosophies value the ethics of being a good host/guest. I totally agree with you, @TrixieJess, that not any one belief system (including atheism) has a monopoly over what constitutes manners. I think it's just part of being a good person. 

    That being said, since a lot of people look to religion to give them guidance on being a good person, I think it's natural for @CMGragain to see her faith reinforcing her practice of etiquette. After reviewing her comments this morning, it doesn't seem to me that she meant to imply that anybody wasn't Christian is an uncouth person or that the only path to etiquette is via the worship of Jesus. I can't speak for her personally, but that's how I read her comments, at any rate. 

    I can say that, as a Christian, some of the most courteous and principled people I know are atheists or simply non-religious. I don't think it takes any system of belief to dictate how to be a good person. I think that is hard-wired in most of us. Whether the instinct to behave well is through evolutionary social advantage or some inner moral, spiritual compass -- that is of course could be debated. But I'd prefer to just leave it at the fact that I think most humans, regardless of creed or culture, have an instinctual conscience about how to not be complete assholes to others.

    Unfortunately people also use religion as an excuse to be an asshole, so it's a bit of a double edged sword and really has no bearing on the argument.

    Etiquette is a system of standards and mores that allow people to function within polite society. I'm sure there were standards of etiquette before religions became popular. 
    Um, I never argued people don't use it for bad reasons. But I'm not arguing that religion does or doesn't excuse a person's "good" or "bad" behavior, just that it makes sense that people belonging to religions are going to take them into consideration of how they conduct themselves, for better or for worse. Also didn't argue that societal mores existed prior to the rise of religions. Not contradicting you or trying to debate that.
                        


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  • Other religions, besides yours, also have ettique. I have also known atheists who are wonderful people. Shocking. What in the bloody blue blazes does Jesus have to do with this?
    I'm a dyed in the wool heathen and I know my etiquette very well (thank you grandma). Trust me, religion does not have a monopoly on etiquette. 
     As I mentioned in a comment above, lots of religions and philosophies value the ethics of being a good host/guest. I totally agree with you, @TrixieJess, that not any one belief system (including atheism) has a monopoly over what constitutes manners. I think it's just part of being a good person. 

    That being said, since a lot of people look to religion to give them guidance on being a good person, I think it's natural for @CMGragain to see her faith reinforcing her practice of etiquette. After reviewing her comments this morning, it doesn't seem to me that she meant to imply that anybody wasn't Christian is an uncouth person or that the only path to etiquette is via the worship of Jesus. I can't speak for her personally, but that's how I read her comments, at any rate. 

    I can say that, as a Christian, some of the most courteous and principled people I know are atheists or simply non-religious. I don't think it takes any system of belief to dictate how to be a good person. I think that is hard-wired in most of us. Whether the instinct to behave well is through evolutionary social advantage or some inner moral, spiritual compass -- that is of course could be debated. But I'd prefer to just leave it at the fact that I think most humans, regardless of creed or culture, have an instinctual conscience about how to not be complete assholes to others.

    Unfortunately people also use religion as an excuse to be an asshole, so it's a bit of a double edged sword and really has no bearing on the argument.

    Etiquette is a system of standards and mores that allow people to function within polite society. I'm sure there were standards of etiquette before religions became popular. 
    Um, I never argued people don't use it for bad reasons. But I'm not arguing that religion does or doesn't excuse a person's "good" or "bad" behavior, just that it makes sense that people belonging to religions are going to take them into consideration of how they conduct themselves, for better or for worse. Also didn't argue that societal mores existed prior to the rise of religions. Not contradicting you or trying to debate that.
    I'm not singling you out, I'm pointing out as a whole. Untie knickers, take a breath and a shot. Re-read and realise that I'm not being specific (except for right now).
  • Other religions, besides yours, also have ettique. I have also known atheists who are wonderful people. Shocking. What in the bloody blue blazes does Jesus have to do with this?
    I'm a dyed in the wool heathen and I know my etiquette very well (thank you grandma). Trust me, religion does not have a monopoly on etiquette. 
     As I mentioned in a comment above, lots of religions and philosophies value the ethics of being a good host/guest. I totally agree with you, @TrixieJess, that not any one belief system (including atheism) has a monopoly over what constitutes manners. I think it's just part of being a good person. 

    That being said, since a lot of people look to religion to give them guidance on being a good person, I think it's natural for @CMGragain to see her faith reinforcing her practice of etiquette. After reviewing her comments this morning, it doesn't seem to me that she meant to imply that anybody wasn't Christian is an uncouth person or that the only path to etiquette is via the worship of Jesus. I can't speak for her personally, but that's how I read her comments, at any rate. 

    I can say that, as a Christian, some of the most courteous and principled people I know are atheists or simply non-religious. I don't think it takes any system of belief to dictate how to be a good person. I think that is hard-wired in most of us. Whether the instinct to behave well is through evolutionary social advantage or some inner moral, spiritual compass -- that is of course could be debated. But I'd prefer to just leave it at the fact that I think most humans, regardless of creed or culture, have an instinctual conscience about how to not be complete assholes to others.

    Unfortunately people also use religion as an excuse to be an asshole, so it's a bit of a double edged sword and really has no bearing on the argument.

    Etiquette is a system of standards and mores that allow people to function within polite society. I'm sure there were standards of etiquette before religions became popular. 
    Um, I never argued people don't use it for bad reasons. But I'm not arguing that religion does or doesn't excuse a person's "good" or "bad" behavior, just that it makes sense that people belonging to religions are going to take them into consideration of how they conduct themselves, for better or for worse. Also didn't argue that societal mores existed prior to the rise of religions. Not contradicting you or trying to debate that.
    I'm not singling you out, I'm pointing out as a whole. Untie knickers, take a breath and a shot. Re-read and realise that I'm not being specific (except for right now).
    Cool.  Apologies if I came off defensive -- I actually wasn't too upset, just wanted to make sure I clarified the point of my previous post. Internet inflection problems both ways, I think. No need to unbutton my pants, but I will gladly take that shot --  won't turn that down! :) Cheers.

                        


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  • MairePoppyMairePoppy Connecticut
    Moderator Seventh Anniversary 5000 Comments 500 Love Its
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    CMGragain said:
    That wouldn't be kosher.
    Good one. Maybe a pickle fork, instead.
                
    Jen4948AddieCakeCMGragain
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