Etiquette

Cruise Wedding

edited February 2016 in Etiquette
Dear Knotties, 

I have lingered on this board long enough to know that PPDs are a big no no, and I absolutely agree. But now newly engaged, I find myself in a bit of a pickle.  

You see, my fiancé and I want to be married on a cruise ship from our home in Alaska to Vancouver.  We have our hearts set on this.  Upon more research, we discovered that because the particular cruise we picked doesn't cross international waters, they can't perform a legal ceremony on board.  We don't like the idea of a harbour side or glacier wedding.  

Is it still considered a PPD if we got the license the day before ( or day of) the cruise departing and have the ceremony we want on the ship? 

We have no intentions of deceiving guests, we would tell them.  I just don't think we should compromise our vision of a cruise wedding just to fit a minor technicality.  

I suppose that as important as I recognize the license is, its real but not.... complete.  
It's like legally we are united but not spiritually yet. I realize the legality is what so many battles are fought over in the course of history.  I don't mean to trivialize it by any way.  

My FMIL has shared her option that she isn't the biggest fan of that idea and it won't be a "real" wedding but will support whatever we choose. And everyone else thinks is the logical solution and are very happy.
 

Update:  I want to sincerely thank everybody on this forum.  You have all honestly pointed out some things to me that I had over looked and undervalued.  We have talked about modifying our vision so that our guests can witness our true wedding in real time.  So definitely no PPD!  

2nd Update:  I came here to seek advice about how to go about the whole PPD situation.  You gave me great advice there, thank you.  I have a much more realistic "vision".  I really didn't ask about what you thought about the cruise wedding in itself because I know it's not everyones most affordable route and I didn't want to disclose our financial position.  The reason we can have a cruise wedding is because my family (who is like 95% of the wedding guests) is pretty dang well of. That's why we can do it this way. Its also incredibly lucky that no one is forced to spend all their vacation time with us. They do not need to save up and can easily afford a cruise wedding because they brought it up in the first place as an idea.  My best friend and one cousin (MOH and BM) who are the only ones that mentioned that they needed to save up, we are actually helping them compensate for a lot of their expense built into the wedding budget, that they don't even know about yet (Dress, tickets, staying with us before the cruise ect..)  It will be very affordable.  Absolutely not, will this be a financial burden to ANYBODY or put any of my guests in a financial hole.  As for his family, granted he doesn't have as much family as I do but they also love the cruise wedding idea and can also easily afford it because they go on vacations all the time. We aren't asking them to help financially with any of the wedding and my father and generously accepted the full bill. No body DOESNT want us to have a cruise wedding.  The only sticking point was If we were actually going to get married on the ship and we aren't anymore.  Currently in the process of talking to coordinators about a very legal port wedding.   

Never did I intend to come of as inconsiderate to my guests, I think I just mis communicated my full intent.  I hope this clears up some stale air on this thread... 
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Re: Cruise Wedding

  • Are there other cruises you could look into? I'd sacrifice the exact route you're looking at to ensure you were on a ship where the ceremony counted. 
    lc07
  • The reason we choose the cruise we did was because it was the shortest and cheapest.  My FMIL is the only person that doesn't agree and everybody else is fine with the cruise and ceremony.  Since it's Alaska, the next possible destination is much further and more costly.  That seems even more unfair to guest.  Other wise i would also agree that another destination is the appropriate choice.  
  • I would also like to add that most of my guest are family that are coming in from Singapore where obtaining a license is so much of a hassel (so i've been told) that it's almost impossible or quite unrealistic to have that and marry the same day.  They don't understand why I'm considering changing the cruise (everyone wanted to see glaciers) and making them pay more for that technicality.  
  • edited January 2016
    I really to appreciate all this feedback you have all helped me see this clearer. I can even agree that its not ideal but the alternative is to not have a cruise at all and do a regular nice hotel wedding, or extend the cruise and cost everyone thousands more.  I'm very overwhelmed by so many opinions from my family members I can't think straight.  
  • Can you hire an officiant to marry you? I get the captain or whoever can't do it but can a regular JOP or someone ordained preform the ceremony?

    Also, from what I've read, aren't you supposed to pay for the cruise for your guests if you are getting married at sea? I might be wrong...


    InLoveInQueensKnickerGoldMandyMost
  • climbingwifeclimbingwife NYC 'burbs
    10000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary 5 Answers
    member
    edited January 2016
    Yes, this is a PPD and I agree with your MIL. 

    And if you're asking your guests to attend this cruise to see your "wedding", you should be paying for them. 

    Listen, everyone has ideas/dreams/whatever about what they want their wedding to look like. Sometimes those plans don't work out. I wanted to get married on a beach. My H wanted to get married hanging off the side of a cliff (I'm not kidding). None of that worked for our guests, so we came up with a different plan that worked for everyone. That's called be a rational and sensible adult. 

    HeffalumpInLoveInQueensPinksatin91016
  • All of these people are traveling from Singapore, paying for a cruise, and are aware of the fact you will be legally married before the ship sets sail?
    PrettyGirlLostPinksatin91016KnickerGold
  • I work for a law firm that practices family law so I look at the PPD situation a little differently.  In most states, when you go to whichever government building you need to in order to obtain your marriage license once the clerk hands you the marriage license you are technically "legally" married at that point.  In the State of Missouri where I live an officiant has to certify the marriage and sign the license in order to get the marriage certificate.  But if I were to change my mind in between the short time I obtained the marriage license and the ceremony was to be held, I am still considered married in the eyes of the law and would have to go through annulment or divorce proceedings to change that.  The ceremony is solidify the marriage for religious and/or social purposes.  I am not sure how Alaska works but if its similar to Missouri this is all really a moot point because you will be legally married anyway the day you obtain your license!

    I have known several people who have had a PPD and I have never personally felt insulted as a guest.  They are grown adults and its none of my business why they chose to make that decision.  I am of the unpopular opinion here but I say if your guests are fine with the cost of the cruise to attend your wedding and the plans you have made, then do what you have to do and have the event the way you envision. 
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  • Maggie0829Maggie0829 Ravens & Bohs & Crabs & O's
    10000 Comments Sixth Anniversary 500 Love Its 25 Answers
    member
    AW3380 said:
    I work for a law firm that practices family law so I look at the PPD situation a little differently.  In most states, when you go to whichever government building you need to in order to obtain your marriage license once the clerk hands you the marriage license you are technically "legally" married at that point.  In the State of Missouri where I live an officiant has to certify the marriage and sign the license in order to get the marriage certificate.  But if I were to change my mind in between the short time I obtained the marriage license and the ceremony was to be held, I am still considered married in the eyes of the law and would have to go through annulment or divorce proceedings to change that.  The ceremony is solidify the marriage for religious and/or social purposes.  I am not sure how Alaska works but if its similar to Missouri this is all really a moot point because you will be legally married anyway the day you obtain your license!

    I have known several people who have had a PPD and I have never personally felt insulted as a guest.  They are grown adults and its none of my business why they chose to make that decision.  I am of the unpopular opinion here but I say if your guests are fine with the cost of the cruise to attend your wedding and the plans you have made, then do what you have to do and have the event the way you envision. 
    Er, is this really accurate? Doesn't a marriage license just give you permission to get married? You can't be married in most places unless you have, at minimum, the declaration of intent ("do you take so and so") witnessed by a legal officiant and then that officiant signs the certificate and files it with the courthouse. I'm not a lawyer and I can't find anything of significance on google, but do you have a source for the claim that the license itself makes you married and if you canceled your wedding you'd need a divorce?

    Actually I'm pretty positive that's not true. Your license is usually only good for a certain period, maybe 30 days or 60 days depending on the state. If you don't get married within that timeframe it expires and if you tried to file it, your marriage would not be legal. I don't know, maybe Missouri is super duper special or something, but I can't see that being accurate.

    My opinion on PPD... I don't see the point. I mentioned this recently, but if I were to get legally married, it wouldn't be possible for me to treat it just as "paperwork." It would be emotional and it would matter. Redoing it later would be so bizarre as to be ridiculous. Even if I was just in sweatpants (can you wear sweatpants to the courthouse?) I would consider that to be the day FH and I became husband and wife. So, to me PPD is putting the vision of white dress and big party (or in this case "wedding at sea") over the emotional and legal transformation of becoming married, and I think that's pretty lame. 
    I was really scratching my head and thinking "um, that can't be right." (I am talking about AW3380's post)  I was not considered married by my state until my license was signed and submitted to the court.  Only then was I considered married.  If H or I decided to call off the wedding then our license would have just expired.  We certainly would not have had to go through an annulment or divorce proceeding just because we applied for a marriage license.

    adk19PrettyGirlLostSP29charcoalandblush
  • @spockforprez I thought the same as you until we recently handled a divorce case where upon research we learned the couple was legally married despite not going through with their ceremony and filing their marriage license.  They were hoping to negotiate a settlement between them out of court but they had to go through legal divorce proceedings.  Now, in other states things may vary, but when the attorneys did the research they found most states considered couples legally married when the license was obtained.  In MO you are supposed to have an officiant certify and sign the license in order to obtain the marriage certificate but in this case even that did not matter. 
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  • AW3380 said:
    I work for a law firm that practices family law so I look at the PPD situation a little differently.  In most states, when you go to whichever government building you need to in order to obtain your marriage license once the clerk hands you the marriage license you are technically "legally" married at that point.  In the State of Missouri where I live an officiant has to certify the marriage and sign the license in order to get the marriage certificate.  But if I were to change my mind in between the short time I obtained the marriage license and the ceremony was to be held, I am still considered married in the eyes of the law and would have to go through annulment or divorce proceedings to change that.  The ceremony is solidify the marriage for religious and/or social purposes.  I am not sure how Alaska works but if its similar to Missouri this is all really a moot point because you will be legally married anyway the day you obtain your license!

    I have known several people who have had a PPD and I have never personally felt insulted as a guest.  They are grown adults and its none of my business why they chose to make that decision.  I am of the unpopular opinion here but I say if your guests are fine with the cost of the cruise to attend your wedding and the plans you have made, then do what you have to do and have the event the way you envision. 
    Er, is this really accurate? Doesn't a marriage license just give you permission to get married? You can't be married in most places unless you have, at minimum, the declaration of intent ("do you take so and so") witnessed by a legal officiant and then that officiant signs the certificate and files it with the courthouse. I'm not a lawyer and I can't find anything of significance on google, but do you have a source for the claim that the license itself makes you married and if you canceled your wedding you'd need a divorce?

    Actually I'm pretty positive that's not true. Your license is usually only good for a certain period, maybe 30 days or 60 days depending on the state. If you don't get married within that timeframe it expires and if you tried to file it, your marriage would not be legal. I don't know, maybe Missouri is super duper special or something, but I can't see that being accurate.

    My opinion on PPD... I don't see the point. I mentioned this recently, but if I were to get legally married, it wouldn't be possible for me to treat it just as "paperwork." It would be emotional and it would matter. Redoing it later would be so bizarre as to be ridiculous. Even if I was just in sweatpants (can you wear sweatpants to the courthouse?) I would consider that to be the day FH and I became husband and wife. So, to me PPD is putting the vision of white dress and big party (or in this case "wedding at sea") over the emotional and legal transformation of becoming married, and I think that's pretty lame. 
    I was really scratching my head and thinking "um, that can't be right." (I am talking about AW3380's post)  I was not considered married by my state until my license was signed and submitted to the court.  Only then was I considered married.  If H or I decided to call off the wedding then our license would have just expired.  We certainly would not have had to go through an annulment or divorce proceeding just because we applied for a marriage license.
    You can't file for a name change with the SSA unless you submit a certified copy of the marriage license; it wouldn't be considered valid with them until it was filed with the officiant's signature.
    InLoveInQueensSP29
  • AW3380 said:
    I work for a law firm that practices family law so I look at the PPD situation a little differently.  In most states, when you go to whichever government building you need to in order to obtain your marriage license once the clerk hands you the marriage license you are technically "legally" married at that point.  In the State of Missouri where I live an officiant has to certify the marriage and sign the license in order to get the marriage certificate.  But if I were to change my mind in between the short time I obtained the marriage license and the ceremony was to be held, I am still considered married in the eyes of the law and would have to go through annulment or divorce proceedings to change that.  The ceremony is solidify the marriage for religious and/or social purposes.  I am not sure how Alaska works but if its similar to Missouri this is all really a moot point because you will be legally married anyway the day you obtain your license!

    I have known several people who have had a PPD and I have never personally felt insulted as a guest.  They are grown adults and its none of my business why they chose to make that decision.  I am of the unpopular opinion here but I say if your guests are fine with the cost of the cruise to attend your wedding and the plans you have made, then do what you have to do and have the event the way you envision. 
    Er, is this really accurate? Doesn't a marriage license just give you permission to get married? You can't be married in most places unless you have, at minimum, the declaration of intent ("do you take so and so") witnessed by a legal officiant and then that officiant signs the certificate and files it with the courthouse. I'm not a lawyer and I can't find anything of significance on google, but do you have a source for the claim that the license itself makes you married and if you canceled your wedding you'd need a divorce?

    Actually I'm pretty positive that's not true. Your license is usually only good for a certain period, maybe 30 days or 60 days depending on the state. If you don't get married within that timeframe it expires and if you tried to file it, your marriage would not be legal. I don't know, maybe Missouri is super duper special or something, but I can't see that being accurate.

    My opinion on PPD... I don't see the point. I mentioned this recently, but if I were to get legally married, it wouldn't be possible for me to treat it just as "paperwork." It would be emotional and it would matter. Redoing it later would be so bizarre as to be ridiculous. Even if I was just in sweatpants (can you wear sweatpants to the courthouse?) I would consider that to be the day FH and I became husband and wife. So, to me PPD is putting the vision of white dress and big party (or in this case "wedding at sea") over the emotional and legal transformation of becoming married, and I think that's pretty lame. 
    I was really scratching my head and thinking "um, that can't be right." (I am talking about AW3380's post)  I was not considered married by my state until my license was signed and submitted to the court.  Only then was I considered married.  If H or I decided to call off the wedding then our license would have just expired.  We certainly would not have had to go through an annulment or divorce proceeding just because we applied for a marriage license.
    That's how it was for us, and while I'm not any sort of legal expert, I thought that was the case everywhere.

    If not, then isn't pretty much every wedding a PPD?  Especially those with a waiting period between getting the license and having the ceremony?
  • @londonlisa no where in my post did I say I was a lawyer.  As a paralegal I know better than to say that.  I am just speaking from experience in handling a case where a couple obtained a license but never had a ceremony or filed the license.  Upon research by the attorneys at the firm they found the couple were considered legally married by the state and had to go through divorce proceedings to change that.  
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  • lyndausvilyndausvi Western Slope, Colorado
    Moderator Tenth Anniversary 10000 Comments 500 Love Its
    mod
    Would I attend a cruise ship wedding?      Doubtful.   Not really a fan cruises, although I am interested in going to Alaska.    7 days is a LOT of vacation time, not sure I would "waste" it on a wedding.   Since for most people Alaska is a hike to even get to, it's more like 8-9 days of vacation.     Again, doubtful.

    However, if I decided that the location and the people getting married is worth all that vacation time AND I knew it's was a fake wedding I do not think it's a big deal.       I would just go with the flow.  The key words here is that I'm fully aware of what is going on.  

     Sometimes getting together with family and friends is more important than seeing a couple get legally married.  As long as I knew the situation and it was actually a day or 2 before I would be good.         






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
  • My point is when you are considered "legally" married is a very gray area and can vary by state. 
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