.

bumpjanie

.

DrillSergeantCat

I've had 3 people say it to me also and I don't have a B-list. Two of them are invited and I told them so, the third I just kind of laughed off and then figured out that we had room for her anyway so I added her. If they're saying it to your face, tell them the truth...that you had to make some unfortunate cuts to your guest list to ensure that your closest friends and family were there but that you would have invited her if you could have. If it's online, text, otherwise not to your face directly, ignore it. 

ei34

Knottie03547205 said:

Our wedding venue can only accommodate so many people, and I come from a big family.  After many rounds of cuts and countless conversations my fiance and I came up with an A list and B list.  Some of my/my fiance's dearest friends from high-school/college are on the B list, and I didn't invite a single cousin on my dad's side, so trust me when I say this was a very hard list to make. 

In the past few months (Save the Dates have been sent) I have had 3 different people/couples say something to the effect of "We BETTER be invited to your wedding" or "Oh so you invited her and not me?"  Each time I am left completely dumb-founded and speechless.  These are not family members or close friends, and in some cases, people I hardly even know.  I figured the first confrontation was a fluke- but 3 times?

Has anyone had experience with this?  What do you say to someone in a situation like that?  It deeply offends me that someone would say something in the first place, I would NEVER.  At this point I'm concerned if one more person makes a comment like that I will lose my cool. 

Any advice?

It's wrong of you to have a B-list.  As long as you're not splitting up couples (ie invited someone but not their SO), you're entitled to a wedding whatever size you'd like.  That being said, gosh, the venue you're going with must really be a dream venue that it's the one you've chosen, when it involved so much cutting and dear friends not being invited.
And it's wrong of those people to demand invites.  Random coworkers and facebook friends from years ago (and I didn't discuss my engagement or wedding planning at work or on FB) did the same to me.  Bean dipping is the best advice I can give.

geebee908

Knottie03547205 said:

Our wedding venue can only accommodate so many people, and I come from a big family.  After many rounds of cuts and countless conversations my fiance and I came up with an A list and B list.  Some of my/my fiance's dearest friends from high-school/college are on the B list, and I didn't invite a single cousin on my dad's side, so trust me when I say this was a very hard list to make. 

In the past few months (Save the Dates have been sent) I have had 3 different people/couples say something to the effect of "We BETTER be invited to your wedding" or "Oh so you invited her and not me?"  Each time I am left completely dumb-founded and speechless.  These are not family members or close friends, and in some cases, people I hardly even know.  I figured the first confrontation was a fluke- but 3 times?

Has anyone had experience with this?  What do you say to someone in a situation like that?  It deeply offends me that someone would say something in the first place, I would NEVER.  At this point I'm concerned if one more person makes a comment like that I will lose my cool. 

Any advice?

Seems as though you might have been working backwards. Your budget and guest list should have been determined before you ever look at venues so that you book a venue that will accommodate one guest list. You should definitely not be B-listing anyone; that is extremely rude and you risk alienating the people on that list.

No one should expect an invitation to your wedding. You can keep it small if you like because you want the venue you want, but you shouldn't be tiering your guest list. Own your choice. Anyone who comments on being invited can be told you're keeping your wedding small and then change the subject.

MCmeow

I know it's too late now (or is it?) but first you need to come up with a budget THEN guest list THEN venue. Venue can't come before a draft guest list. Also it's rude to have a B-list, everyone should be treated equally, they'll find out and it's gonna suck. Also you should ignore people telling you you have to invite them, you shouldn't feel forced to invite people, just tell them "I wish I could but we're only inviting a few people due to our budget". You're gonna have to keep cutting or find a new venue =\

DrillSergeantCat

I'm curious your reasoning for having a b-list. I've seen someone say that they had to have a minimum number of guests, but I would think if you had to have 100 and only 95 showed, then you'd just pay for 100 so it's still not necessary. I could absolutely be wrong about that, though. But, what's your reason?

bumpjanie

Please save the opinions about "B" lists- it is ultimately a personal choice and not one that is right or wrong.  As a matter of fact, this very website not only recommends it, but gives you excellent advice on how to navigate an A/B list with the utmost etiquette- here, and here.  I feel like a lot of judgements are being thrown out based on some very limited information...there are always extenuating circumstances and sometimes you just have to go with the flow. To be clear, I'm not asking advice on how to plan my wedding- it is planned and I couldn't be happier.

I'm ONLY asking about how one should react to a person that is very forward about being invited to the wedding?

DrillSergeantCat

Knottie03547205 said:

Please save the opinions about "B" lists- it is ultimately a personal choice and not one that is right or wrong.  As a matter of fact, this very website not only recommends it, but gives you excellent advice on how to navigate an A/B list with the utmost etiquette- here, and here.  I feel like a lot of judgements are being thrown out based on some very limited information...there are always extenuating circumstances and sometimes you just have to go with the flow. To be clear, I'm not asking advice on how to plan my wedding- it is planned and I couldn't be happier.

I'm ONLY asking about how one should react to a person that is very forward about being invited to the wedding?

The Knot is not an etiquette website. Think how you'd feel if you found out you weren't important enough to be an "a-lister." I'd feel like you just wanted a gift, if it were me. 

You can't tell people how to respond to you. Knotties will respond to any and every breach of etiquette they see in an attempt to save us from embarrassment. 

geebee908

Knottie03547205 said:

Please save the opinions about "B" lists- it is ultimately a personal choice and not one that is right or wrong.  As a matter of fact, this very website not only recommends it, but gives you excellent advice on how to navigate an A/B list with the utmost etiquette- here, and here.  I feel like a lot of judgements are being thrown out based on some very limited information...there are always extenuating circumstances and sometimes you just have to go with the flow. To be clear, I'm not asking advice on how to plan my wedding- it is planned and I couldn't be happier.

I'm ONLY asking about how one should react to a person that is very forward about being invited to the wedding?

SITB

The Knot stands to make money from the wedding industry; sure, they'll tell you how to B-list so you have as many people as possible spending their hard-earned money on clothing to wear and gifts to give you.

But etiquette is designed to save you from offending your loved ones. Put yourself in your friends' shoes who are on the B-list. You'll get to come to the wedding if enough of the people we deem more important decline first. Does TK also tell you how to do this so your B-list doesn't find out that they're B-list? That should tell you right there that it's the wrong thing to do.

Heffalump

Knottie03547205 said:

Please save the opinions about "B" lists- it is ultimately a personal choice and not one that is right or wrong.  As a matter of fact, this very website not only recommends it, but gives you excellent advice on how to navigate an A/B list with the utmost etiquette- here, and here.  I feel like a lot of judgements are being thrown out based on some very limited information...there are always extenuating circumstances and sometimes you just have to go with the flow. To be clear, I'm not asking advice on how to plan my wedding- it is planned and I couldn't be happier.

I'm ONLY asking about how one should react to a person that is very forward about being invited to the wedding?

Roses vs. hydrangeas are a personal choice.  Either way, a couple will have a lovely wedding.

B-listing is potentially hurtful, in that when people realize it, it makes those on the B list feel that they are less important to you, and makes those on the A list feel that you are inconsiderate of others' feelings.  Treating people well or hurting their feelings is pretty much the essence of "right or wrong," as you put it.

No one here cares, just trying to help you avoid potential problems and damaging relationships with people you presumably care about.

ETA:  I shouldn't really say "no one here cares," I just mean that no one here has a dog in this fight--we don't stand to benefit from you spending more or less on your wedding, no one here is trying to wrangle an invitation, etc.  People care, but objectively.

glasgowtolondon

Knottie03547205 said:

Please save the opinions about "B" lists- it is ultimately a personal choice and not one that is right or wrong.  As a matter of fact, this very website not only recommends it, but gives you excellent advice on how to navigate an A/B list with the utmost etiquette- here, and here.  I feel like a lot of judgements are being thrown out based on some very limited information...there are always extenuating circumstances and sometimes you just have to go with the flow. To be clear, I'm not asking advice on how to plan my wedding- it is planned and I couldn't be happier.

I'm ONLY asking about how one should react to a person that is very forward about being invited to the wedding?

Yeah, The Knot website is a business. It's more interested in getting you to spend money than to give you advice on etiquette. It is a personal choice, sure. It's a personal choice to rank your friends and family into 1st and 2nd class. That's not etiquette so lets not pretend it is, or pretend that you are the bride that has the unique story which justifies b-listing your loved ones. I highly doubt it.

As to the only question you are asking, you adult and say 'I'm sorry but we are keeping numbers smaller due to budget/venue". It's not that hard. You probably don't need to lose your cool about it or anything.

DrillSergeantCat

geebee908 said:The Knot stands to make money from the wedding industry; sure, they'll tell you how to B-list so you have as many people as possible spending their hard-earned money on clothing to wear and gifts to give you.

But etiquette is designed to save you from offending your loved ones. Put yourself in your friends' shoes who are on the B-list. You'll get to come to the wedding if enough of the people we deem more important decline first. Does TK also tell you how to do this so your B-list doesn't find out that they're B-list? That should tell you right there that it's the wrong thing to do.

I read one of the articles she posted and it does, in fact, tell how to do it so as to hide the fact. It suggests sending you A-list invites 3 months before the wedding so that you can still get your b-list invites out 6-8 weeks before.

AddieCake

You don't think it's a matter of right and wrong to have a B-list? How would you feel if you were invited to something ONLY because someone's first choice guest(s) declined? 

Tell the equally rude pushy folks that due to space and budget you are, unfortunately, not able to invite everyone you'd like. Then change the subject. Repeat as necessary.

DrillSergeantCat

http://forums.theknot.com/discussion/1071357/found-out-that-we-are-on-the-b-list#latest

Here's a recent example of someone who found out they were b-listed. Go look at it and see how great it made her feel.

bumpjanie

DrillSargeantCat- We chose to have a somewhat small wedding, and we were comfortable with that (although making those list choices are always hard!).  The tricky part is, we live far away from both of our hometowns (which are also nowhere near one another)- which means it is a destination wedding for 95% of the attendants.  It is also in a city, so it may be a bit pricey for people.  We are assuming a lot of people will say no because of these factors- but you can never be sure about these things.  The range of NO's could be anywhere from 15% to 60%+, which leaves a lot of variability.  Ultimately we sent out Save the Dates with our wedding website (where all of the guests will RSVP), hoping people will see the link and possibly respond early.  We have already received a lot of responses, and the invitations haven't even gone out yet.  Once it is time for invitations, we will update the guest-list accordingly and balance it with our B list.  With everyone living across the country from one another, it really puts us in a interesting place as far as predicting numbers and ultimately I'd hate to have a half empty venue- so this is our solution!

kylexo

The people demanding to be invited to your wedding are rude. Having a B List is rude. Maybe people are acting rudely to you because you are planning your wedding rudely. Fact, not opinion.

eta: words

DrillSergeantCat

Knottie03547205 said:

DrillSargeantCat- We chose to have a somewhat small wedding, and we were comfortable with that (although making those list choices are always hard!).  The tricky part is, we live far away from both of our hometowns (which are also nowhere near one another)- which means it is a destination wedding for 95% of the attendants.  It is also in a city, so it may be a bit pricey for people.  We are assuming a lot of people will say no because of these factors- but you can never be sure about these things.  The range of NO's could be anywhere from 15% to 60%+, which leaves a lot of variability.  Ultimately we sent out Save the Dates with our wedding website (where all of the guests will RSVP), hoping people will see the link and possibly respond early.  We have already received a lot of responses, and the invitations haven't even gone out yet.  Once it is time for invitations, we will update the guest-list accordingly and balance it with our B list.  With everyone living across the country from one another, it really puts us in a interesting place as far as predicting numbers and ultimately I'd hate to have a half empty venue- so this is our solution!

Did you send STDs to your "b-list"?

JediElizabeth

Knottie03547205 said:

DrillSargeantCat- We chose to have a somewhat small wedding, and we were comfortable with that (although making those list choices are always hard!).  The tricky part is, we live far away from both of our hometowns (which are also nowhere near one another)- which means it is a destination wedding for 95% of the attendants.  It is also in a city, so it may be a bit pricey for people.  We are assuming a lot of people will say no because of these factors- but you can never be sure about these things.  The range of NO's could be anywhere from 15% to 60%+, which leaves a lot of variability.  Ultimately we sent out Save the Dates with our wedding website (where all of the guests will RSVP), hoping people will see the link and possibly respond early.  We have already received a lot of responses, and the invitations haven't even gone out yet.  Once it is time for invitations, we will update the guest-list accordingly and balance it with our B list.  With everyone living across the country from one another, it really puts us in a interesting place as far as predicting numbers and ultimately I'd hate to have a half empty venue- so this is our solution!

Are you sending all the ACTUAL invites together, and just sending STDs to the most important?If so, you're ok - as long as you send your invites to everyone on the guest list, even if they already said no. 

But be aware that they may also change their minds, and be prepared to host everyone who gets an invite together. 

bleve0821

So, here's a hypothetical. What happens if 10-15 people from your A list decline?  How are you going to justify which 10-15 people off the larger B list to then invite?

And what happens if Aunt Mae, an A-lister who initially declined, calls you after the stupid early RSVP date has passed and says, "Great news! Uncle Moe and I were able to get off work, after all! See you at the wedding!"

But, oh, shit!  You already invited Cousin Earl and his wife Joy-Lynn in their place... And they said Yes! 

What are you going to do?  You can't let both couples come, but you invited both and they both said they're coming.  Are you going to uninvite one of them, someone else, or cry because you put yourself in a bit of a pickle and now you're over your max headcount?

Have you actually thought about what you're doing?

My dream venue held 75 people. Our guest list was much larger than that. We picked a different venue.  Adult decision made, no fuss, no muss, and certainly no mess like you're setting yourself up for.

ETF words and grammar

geebee908

What if circumstances change for those who RSVP no before the invites go out? If you sent a STD, then you still have to send an invitation and they may change their response to yes. If you don't send them an invitation, then you're rude once more.

You're playing with fire here in that this could blow up when you have more people attending than your venue can hold because you sent B-listers an invitation based on your A-listers declines. People can and do change their RSVPs.

kylexo

geebee908 said:

What if circumstances change for those who RSVP no before the invites go out? If you sent a STD, then you still have to send an invitation and they may change their response to yes. If you don't send them an invitation, then you're rude once more.

You're playing with fire here in that this could blow up when you have more people attending than your venue can hold because you sent B-listers an invitation based on your A-listers declines. People can and do change their RSVPs.

THIS. My RSVP date is next Thursday and just yesterday I had 6 people change the RSVPs they had initially put in. Some yesses became nos and nos became yesses, but this happens ALL THE TIME.

JaxInBlue

OP, I feel you on the big family.  I'm sure a lot of other posters here do, too.  I get the frantic feeling that comes with putting together your initial list and realizing that you will get to 100 people with just the family you want to invite, let alone the family that other people want you to invite because reasons or the friends you'd like to invite because you're actually closer to them.

So I understand why a B list feels like a good idea - you're 95% Aunt Muriel isn't going to come but you need to invite her anyway.  Waiting for her no and then sending a new invite doesn't really feel like B listing since she was never going to come anyway.  Nevertheless,  you need to sit down with FI and any other hosts and do another cut of your guest list.  You're current plan is setting you up for complications and heartache.

People understand small guest lists, budget and space limitations.  They will be okay not being invited.  However, it can be damaging to have someone find out you rank them second-tier. 

If there are people that you, FI or others feels need special notification of your wedding, wedding announcements serve just that purpose.  You can order and prepare them before your wedding and get them in the mail the next day.

Just don't be our cousin.  She had A/B lists.  As soon as she got a no she was going to send out a new invite.  People found out.  People on the A list began to feel they were only being asked because they had to be.  People stopped sending response cards until the week they were due, even though they weren't going.  It was petty all around, and messy, and could have been avoided if cousin had made the tough choices and owned them. 

climbingsingle

B lists will always, always be rude and tacky. Sorry! Read down on this board about the couple that found themselves on the B list and how offended they were. 

bumpjanie

All the people who have RSVP'd NO have been pretty solid NOs (people are already going to other weddings, having babies, just bought a house and can't afford the trip, will be in school and can't make it, etc.)  I'll send an invitation to everyone regardless of what they have RSVP'ed. I understand people can change their mind, but these are all people I know would say no, for the exact reasons they said no.  I get it, people can change their minds and I anticipate some will which is why I'm giving a little wiggle room.  We are not talking adding a couple when a couple says no, I am talking about 20+ not being able to make the trip SO FAR, and I wouldn't be surprised if that number more than doubles. So I'm adding people- seems logical.   Anyone I'm adding from the B list will get an invitation with everyone else. It's not a decision I ever made to "rank" my loved ones or hurt peoples feelings.  I knew we would have a high drop-off rate but also didn't want to over-invite, having a B list was the way I chose to handle it and I have no regrets.  If I only had one list and stuck to it I would currently have a partially full venue and be paying for every empty seat.  Call it rude, call it whatever you want, but it is also rude to ask someone to pay for a bunch of empty seats because you were afraid to add people to your invite list.  

glasgowtolondon

Who is asking you to pay for empty seats? 

ILoveBeachMusic

DrillSergeantCat said:

geebee908 said:The Knot stands to make money from the wedding industry; sure, they'll tell you how to B-list so you have as many people as possible spending their hard-earned money on clothing to wear and gifts to give you.

But etiquette is designed to save you from offending your loved ones. Put yourself in your friends' shoes who are on the B-list. You'll get to come to the wedding if enough of the people we deem more important decline first. Does TK also tell you how to do this so your B-list doesn't find out that they're B-list? That should tell you right there that it's the wrong thing to do.

I read one of the articles she posted and it does, in fact, tell how to do it so as to hide the fact. It suggests sending you A-list invites 3 months before the wedding so that you can still get your b-list invites out 6-8 weeks before.

Ahhh, I thought that was why a recent invite was sent out 3.5 months early!

DrillSergeantCat

Knottie03547205 said:

All the people who have RSVP'd NO have been pretty solid NOs (people are already going to other weddings, having babies, just bought a house and can't afford the trip, will be in school and can't make it, etc.)  I'll send an invitation to everyone regardless of what they have RSVP'ed. I understand people can change their mind, but these are all people I know would say no, for the exact reasons they said no.  I get it, people can change their minds and I anticipate some will which is why I'm giving a little wiggle room.  We are not talking adding a couple when a couple says no, I am talking about 20+ not being able to make the trip SO FAR, and I wouldn't be surprised if that number more than doubles. So I'm adding people- seems logical.   Anyone I'm adding from the B list will get an invitation with everyone else. It's not a decision I ever made to "rank" my loved ones or hurt peoples feelings.  I knew we would have a high drop-off rate but also didn't want to over-invite, having a B list was the way I chose to handle it and I have no regrets.  If I only had one list and stuck to it I would currently have a partially full venue and be paying for every empty seat.  Call it rude, call it whatever you want, but it is also rude to ask someone to pay for a bunch of empty seats because you were afraid to add people to your invite list.  

Honestly, that sounds like an issue with a poorly chosen venue. My reception venue only required that we spend at least $800 in food to rent the entire place. 

bumpjanie

Out of curiosity for those who think B lists are extremely rude- what would you do if you were in my spot?  We are getting married where we live, because we love it here and luckily it is as central as it can be between the two families.  Bottom line- it was gonna be far trip for people no matter what (one side or the other), so we chose the middle.  So here's the predicament, people are more likely to say NO to a wedding that is far away- I get it, more travel time & more expensive.  We knew our NOs would likely be higher than average- yet it seemed irresponsible to over-invite.  We chose a venue that was a comfortable size for us.  Now let's just 40% of people say NO (which is what its looking like)- you suggest we just leave the venue partially empty?  Again, no matter what it would be a far distance for people so the NO factor would be relevant regardless of location.  And please don't say a bigger venue, because we are happy with the size.

geebee908

What kind of venue charges you for every seat in the place? Most have minimums, but ours allowed us to do upgrades on the food and bar to meet the minimum.

DrillSergeantCat

@knottie03547205 you're acting like an empty seat is a mortal sin. It's not. 

monkeysip

Knottie03547205 said:

Out of curiosity for those who think B lists are extremely rude- what would you do if you were in my spot?  We are getting married where we live, because we love it here and luckily it is as central as it can be between the two families.  Bottom line- it was gonna be far trip for people no matter what (one side or the other), so we chose the middle.  So here's the predicament, people are more likely to say NO to a wedding that is far away- I get it, more travel time & more expensive.  We knew our NOs would likely be higher than average- yet it seemed irresponsible to over-invite.  We chose a venue that was a comfortable size for us.  Now let's just 40% of people say NO (which is what its looking like)- you suggest we just leave the venue partially empty?  Again, no matter what it would be a far distance for people so the NO factor would be relevant regardless of location.  And please don't say a bigger venue, because we are happy with the size.

We had 35% of our guests decline.  And it all worked out okay.  We had money left over, and lots of space in our venue so people weren't crowded.  I don't get why this is such a big problem...