Horrified by Friend’s Admission (Prudie #1)

Heffalump

Dear Prudence,
I found myself extremely upset after reading a friend’s Facebook post recently, in which he admitted to taking a belt to his 2-year old daughter in the hopes that it’ll teach her to sleep through the night. I find this behavior completely abhorrent. At 2 years old, a child barely knows right from wrong, and if you admit to striking your daughter with an object once, who says you won’t do it again? I’ve since deleted this friend from my Facebook, and told my husband (who is also his friend) that I’m refusing to socialize with him.

I have two dilemmas now as a result: The first is that my mom is urging me to report him to his local authorities for child abuse. How do I even do this, and am I obligated to? My husband doesn’t want me to because he doesn’t think the authorities will do anything about it, and this guy thinks that what he did was completely acceptable (he and my husband talked and had to agree to disagree—he told my husband he used a cloth belt, and not a leather one, and that’s why it’s OK). My second dilemma is that this guy is the best friend of my husband’s best friend, and when gatherings are planned, this guy is always invited. I worry that if I’m forced into a social situation with this man, I’m going to tell him exactly what I think, and it won’t be pretty. I also don’t want to make it awkward for my husband and his other friend, and I don’t want to be a witch about things, but this is an absolute zero tolerance for me. How can I move forward in the same social circle if he’s still invited to everything, and clearly believes he’s right with what he did?

—Horrified by Friend’s Admission

banana468

Do you want to protect a defenseless 2 yo or a friendship?    Sucks to make things awkward but I know where I stand.   

kimmiinthemitten

Unless you're a court ordered reporter you don't have a legal obligation, but if you believe his behavior was abhorrent enough to end a friendship over, what's to stop you from reporting it for moral reasons?

And hitting a kid to make them sleep?!  That's absolutely disgusting!

Heffalump

It's upsetting that she's upset enough to unfriend him, but wants to know if she's "obligated" to report him.  Obviously she realizes that he's way over the line--I assume she wouldn't break up with a friend over something she perceived to be trivial.

If it's serious enough to dump a friend over, it's serious enough to report to someone who may actually do something about it.

cowgirl8238

I would be sending that screenshot to CPS/police before I even unfriended the person...but then again I also have a very low tolerance on people that abuse others. 

TrixieJess

kimmiinthemitten said:

Unless you're a court ordered reporter you don't have a legal obligation, but if you believe his behavior was abhorrent enough to end a friendship over, what's to stop you from reporting it for moral reasons?

And hitting a kid to make them sleep?!  That's absolutely disgusting!

Up here anyone can report for any reason and children's services has to investigate. It may not be a legal obligation but if I saw something like that, I would report it. 

charlotte989875

TrixieJess said:

kimmiinthemitten said:

Unless you're a court ordered reporter you don't have a legal obligation, but if you believe his behavior was abhorrent enough to end a friendship over, what's to stop you from reporting it for moral reasons?

And hitting a kid to make them sleep?!  That's absolutely disgusting!

Up here anyone can report for any reason and children's services has to investigate. It may not be a legal obligation but if I saw something like that, I would report it. 

Anyone can report in the states as well, but there are certain mandated reporters, meaning that if you hear of abuse you are required by law to report it. My mom is a nurse and she is a mandated reporter. I work as an advisor to a student organization and that makes me a mandated reporter, although being a faculty member at university would not. It's complicated. 

OliveOilsMom

I would have taken a screen shot and reported that behavior immediately, either to police or CPS. 

How does hitting a 2 year old with anything assist in getting them to go to sleep?  All it does is successfully have the child become afraid of the person doing the hitting.

LW should report it now.  Maybe when authorities show up on his door step he won't be allowed to just agree to disagree with his tactics.

short+sassy

@Heffalump, that's for taking over the Prudie duties while @mrsconn23 is on her awesome-sounding vacation!

Argh!!!  What is wrong with people?  There is NOTHING wrong, EVER, with reporting something to CPS.  Let THEM decide was an offense and what isn't.  In addition, from what I understand, even if they find fault, it's usually not some traumatic "taking kids from parents".  It's re-education.  It's perhaps a few counseling sessions.  It's keeping an eye on things for a time to make sure there is no re-offense.

TrixieJess

charlotte989875 said:

TrixieJess said:

kimmiinthemitten said:

Unless you're a court ordered reporter you don't have a legal obligation, but if you believe his behavior was abhorrent enough to end a friendship over, what's to stop you from reporting it for moral reasons?

And hitting a kid to make them sleep?!  That's absolutely disgusting!

Up here anyone can report for any reason and children's services has to investigate. It may not be a legal obligation but if I saw something like that, I would report it. 

Anyone can report in the states as well, but there are certain mandated reporters, meaning that if you hear of abuse you are required by law to report it. My mom is a nurse and she is a mandated reporter. I work as an advisor to a student organization and that makes me a mandated reporter, although being a faculty member at university would not. It's complicated. 

Now I understand. When I worked with children as a Parks Supervisor, we were in the same position. We were mandated to report any suspected abuse that we heard or witnessed, we also had a ton of paperwork regarding it. 

ShesSoCold

I agree with PPs. LW's gotta say something. Maybe nothing will come of it, but al least she tried to do something for this child. I gotta wonder what else this parent is doing that he's NOT posting publicly about. I can't believe she's the only one upset by these Facebook posts.

Geese, this is looking like another deep day for SSC on WW. Years ago, I was friends with a girl who was a horrible mother. I never saw any signs of physical abuse other than neglect. I never said anything to anyone. She killed her infant son. I believe it was intentional, but if not, it was due to neglect. I doubt I could have saved his life, but I will always think about how I should have said something and maybe the outcome could have been better for all three of her kids.

I have few regrets in my life. Not saying something about this is one of them. Not writing an impact statement for the sentencing for the murderers of my cousins (another post) is another. 

lc07

The answer is report. I don't know about other states but in CA your information is kept confidential and the suspected abuser is not told who the report came from. I made a report once when abuse happened in my presence and was nervous that the person would know or guess it was me. When the person told me that CPS came to their home they told me they suspected someone at one of the sporting events their kid was involved in must have seen something and called it in. When kids are abused in front of you, I'm guessing most likely, it happens in front of others. In LW's case it could be anybody who saw the FB post. 

kimmiinthemitten

(hugs) @ShesSoCold

NOLABridesmaid

People forget that it's reporting suspected child abuse. It's not their job to determine if it's happening or not. I always have to remind our teachers of that.

charlotte989875

NOLABridesmaid said:

People forget that it's reporting suspected child abuse. It's not their job to determine if it's happening or not. I always have to remind our teachers of that.

Exactly. When I did my mandatory reporter training they stressed that if there was a rumor or suggestion about abuse that I was obligated to report that, not investigate it. 

monkeysip

Just reading that letter made my stomach ill.  I'm so far from being a perfect parent, but child abuse is so upsetting to me.  I've been in that moment where you're going insane from lack of sleep and the child keeps crying.... and never once did I think about belting her to sleep.  I just can't with these people.

I really really really hope SOMEONE reported it.

OurWildKingdom

Yeah, I'm not even a parent and I'd take a screenshot of that post and get on the phone to DCFS. 

Anyone else side-eyeing LW's husband? "Agree to disagree," my ass.

GBCK

my hope is that the kid got swatted for getting out of bed, not for not sleeping.
Which..is still in asshole 'Michael Pearl' territory for a 2 year old, IMO, but is at least not a swat for inability to control involuntary bodily functions.
(just for things that are pretty much beyond impulse control beyond a 2 year old, so, still asshole.)

DrillSergeantCat

ShesSoCold said:

I agree with PPs. LW's gotta say something. Maybe nothing will come of it, but al least she tried to do something for this child. I gotta wonder what else this parent is doing that he's NOT posting publicly about. I can't believe she's the only one upset by these Facebook posts.

Geese, this is looking like another deep day for SSC on WW. Years ago, I was friends with a girl who was a horrible mother. I never saw any signs of physical abuse other than neglect. I never said anything to anyone. She killed her infant son. I believe it was intentional, but if not, it was due to neglect. I doubt I could have saved his life, but I will always think about how I should have said something and maybe the outcome could have been better for all three of her kids.

I have few regrets in my life. Not saying something about this is one of them. Not writing an impact statement for the sentencing for the murderers of my cousins (another post) is another. 

Several years ago, I worked for the developer of the neighborhood I lived in which had a small lake with very steep sides. The developer was being sued by a family in the neighborhood. It was towards the end of December, but not too cold. I looked out my front window and I see their 2 year old walking down the street wearing nothing but a diaper; he was chasing geese. I go put my shoes on and look outside and he's chased the geese to the water. In the time it took me to get outside, I can't find him. I checked the water and he wasn't there thankfully. I went to his house and ring the bell. After a few minutes, the baby walks right on out the front door again. I hear mom screaming at the other kids (she had 9) and finally she screams asking where the baby is. One of the kids yells back that he went outside and she screams back, "Well go get him!" This entire time, she knows I'm standing on the porch, but won't come talk to me (I assume her attorney told her not to). I felt like I had no other choice but to call that in. I mean...if that boy had slid into the water, there was no way he was getting out. That night, the husband came down to my house and screamed at me what a bad person I was and how he could lose his job (he is military); I screamed right back that if they watched their baby better I wouldn't have had to call. He felt I was in the wrong because since they were from Alaska, the temperature that day was warm to them and therefore the baby wasn't in any danger. I'd do it again in a heartbeat though.

kimmiinthemitten

I read this to FI who is a mandated reporter - he said anytime a child is struck by a foreign object it has to be reported, no gray area.  

His own addition was especially a 2 year old because that's just cruel and sick.

DrillSergeantCat

Guys! Yesterday this lady in one of my FB groups said that her 3 year old daughter came home from her visitation with her father saying that her uncle was there and that she "had an owie in her underwear." She wanted to know what to do and someone commented to "make sure you have proof...because too many people out their (sic) claim false abuse out of bitterness or hatred. Discuss it with your ex first and foremost."

How about fucking NO?!?! That was the shittiest advice ever! Fortunately, brighter heads prevailed and convinced her to go to the ER. Fortunately again, she went and they found no physical evidence of penetration or trauma (made me sick writing that), but that she did the right thing bringing her in because there's a paper trail now. 

cowgirl8238

DrillSergeantCat said:

Guys! Yesterday this lady in one of my FB groups said that her 3 year old daughter came home from her visitation with her father saying that her uncle was there and that she "had an owie in her underwear." She wanted to know what to do and someone commented to "make sure you have proof...because too many people out their (sic) claim false abuse out of bitterness or hatred. Discuss it with your ex first and foremost."

How about fucking NO?!?! That was the shittiest advice ever! Fortunately, brighter heads prevailed and convinced her to go to the ER. Fortunately again, she went and they found no physical evidence of penetration or trauma (made me sick writing that), but that she did the right thing bringing her in because there's a paper trail now. 

I am glad that they didn't find anything, but I would still be leery.  I can't believe that there are people who would do such a thing to an innocent child!! I really hope that said "paper trail" is never needed (as in there is no abuse). 

short+sassy

DrillSergeantCat said:

ShesSoCold said:

I agree with PPs. LW's gotta say something. Maybe nothing will come of it, but al least she tried to do something for this child. I gotta wonder what else this parent is doing that he's NOT posting publicly about. I can't believe she's the only one upset by these Facebook posts.

Geese, this is looking like another deep day for SSC on WW. Years ago, I was friends with a girl who was a horrible mother. I never saw any signs of physical abuse other than neglect. I never said anything to anyone. She killed her infant son. I believe it was intentional, but if not, it was due to neglect. I doubt I could have saved his life, but I will always think about how I should have said something and maybe the outcome could have been better for all three of her kids.

I have few regrets in my life. Not saying something about this is one of them. Not writing an impact statement for the sentencing for the murderers of my cousins (another post) is another. 

Several years ago, I worked for the developer of the neighborhood I lived in which had a small lake with very steep sides. The developer was being sued by a family in the neighborhood. It was towards the end of December, but not too cold. I looked out my front window and I see their 2 year old walking down the street wearing nothing but a diaper; he was chasing geese. I go put my shoes on and look outside and he's chased the geese to the water. In the time it took me to get outside, I can't find him. I checked the water and he wasn't there thankfully. I went to his house and ring the bell. After a few minutes, the baby walks right on out the front door again. I hear mom screaming at the other kids (she had 9) and finally she screams asking where the baby is. One of the kids yells back that he went outside and she screams back, "Well go get him!" This entire time, she knows I'm standing on the porch, but won't come talk to me (I assume her attorney told her not to). I felt like I had no other choice but to call that in. I mean...if that boy had slid into the water, there was no way he was getting out. That night, the husband came down to my house and screamed at me what a bad person I was and how he could lose his job (he is military); I screamed right back that if they watched their baby better I wouldn't have had to call. He felt I was in the wrong because since they were from Alaska, the temperature that day was warm to them and therefore the baby wasn't in any danger. I'd do it again in a heartbeat though.

There was an incident that happened locally just a couple months ago.  A 5-year-old girl drowned in a neighbor's pool.  The house with the pool was for sale, but no one was living there.  It was gated, but kids in the neighborhood would break the lock, every single time it was fixed.

The little girl was playing in her backyard, but it was unfenced.  She'd been caught a few times going over to the pool next door and had been scolded.  Yet, she was still playing unsupervised in her backyard and the mother didn't check on her for 45 minutes.

Of course, now the family is acting like "those evil neighbors with the broken gate, it's ALL their fault".  I slightly agree, it's a smidge their fault.  If that I had been my house, I wouldn't have kept water in it, if my lock kept getting broken.  But I put the VAST majority of the blame on the parents.  They could have prevented this 10 ways from Sunday.  And didn't.

DrillSergeantCat

@short+sassy if it's an inground pool, taking the water out can cause the sides to collapse and if it's close enough to the house damage the foundation of the house. This is the reason that certain homeowner's insurance policies have restrictions on pools. Sad situation and the homeowner's policy likely paid out on that one, but like you said...mom should have kept a better eye and they should have fenced their yard at minimum.

short+sassy

DrillSergeantCat said:

@short+sassy if it's an inground pool, taking the water out can cause the sides to collapse and if it's close enough to the house damage the foundation of the house. This is the reason that certain homeowner's insurance policies have restrictions on pools. Sad situation and the homeowner's policy likely paid out on that one, but like you said...mom should have kept a better eye and they should have fenced their yard at minimum.

Ugh, that's a good point I hadn't thought of.  Especially where I live, we have swampy ground and if water isn't kept in a pool it can pop out of the ground.

Just sad all around.