Thank you notes and a question

MobKaz

@Knottie8f6a5db42e0a0a3d said, "My FI and I don't want to have it in the same place.  The ceremony is in a prettier place and will be a better experience/better pictures."

I am well aware of which bride you are, @Knottie8f6a5db42e0a0a3d.  You are the bride who says you are looking beyond yourself, but this ^ statement makes it clear you are putting your vision and personal needs above your guests. 

[Deleted User]

MobKaz said:

@Knottie8f6a5db42e0a0a3d said, "My FI and I don't want to have it in the same place.  The ceremony is in a prettier place and will be a better experience/better pictures."

I am well aware of which bride you are, @Knottie8f6a5db42e0a0a3d.  You are the bride who says you are looking beyond yourself, but this ^ statement makes it clear you are putting your vision and personal needs above your guests. 

It's my guests/family that also preferred the separate venue! Something I mentioned previously. It's like talking in circles with you people! lol

Jen4948

Knottie8f6a5db42e0a0a3d said:

Where on this entire thread did anyone say they were passing wedding costs onto their guests and who validated it?  Nowhere. You literally just made that up.

And most etiquette rules are universal. Traditions are regional. Don't confuse the two. 

The costs issue was related to my point on DW.  Also, etiquette rules are not universal! Are you kidding. Most of the etiquette on here relates to Western, white majority countries that (if your read the history of etiquette) come from France, (originally).  The etiquette rules discussed on this wesbite DO NOT APPLY WORLDWIDE.  Don't be so arrogant to believe that white people get to tell the world how to act.  

I know the TK is directed towards a western audience, so its fine that the etiquette is western-orientated, but you said 'most etiquette rules are universal.'  Maybe get a passport and visit another country.  Wedding traditions vary widely across different countries, as do social rules. English and america have different values, social norms, etiquette rules.  There is some crossover, but they are not carbon-copies.

It looks like you are pretending that white western (americans) norms amount to 'etiquette' but anything else is 'tradition.'  That's demeaning to the vast majority of the world's population.  

Something that is rude is to help yourself to the traditions of a group you are not a member of and use them to argue against your own group's cultural and etiquette norms.

Since the vast majority of the members of this forum ARE American or Western, we are going to tailor our answers to them.

It would be inappropriate to tell an American that tiered receptions are okay because in other parts of the world it is considered acceptable. That fact does not make it polite for an American to offer tiered hospitality to guests when they are American.

[Deleted User]

Jen4948 said:

Knottie8f6a5db42e0a0a3d said:

Where on this entire thread did anyone say they were passing wedding costs onto their guests and who validated it?  Nowhere. You literally just made that up.

And most etiquette rules are universal. Traditions are regional. Don't confuse the two. 

The costs issue was related to my point on DW.  Also, etiquette rules are not universal! Are you kidding. Most of the etiquette on here relates to Western, white majority countries that (if your read the history of etiquette) come from France, (originally).  The etiquette rules discussed on this wesbite DO NOT APPLY WORLDWIDE.  Don't be so arrogant to believe that white people get to tell the world how to act.  

I know the TK is directed towards a western audience, so its fine that the etiquette is western-orientated, but you said 'most etiquette rules are universal.'  Maybe get a passport and visit another country.  Wedding traditions vary widely across different countries, as do social rules. English and america have different values, social norms, etiquette rules.  There is some crossover, but they are not carbon-copies.

It looks like you are pretending that white western (americans) norms amount to 'etiquette' but anything else is 'tradition.'  That's demeaning to the vast majority of the world's population.  

Something that is rude is to help yourself to the traditions of a group you are not a member of and use them to argue against your own group's cultural and etiquette norms.

Since the vast majority of the members of this forum ARE American or Western, we are going to tailor our answers to them.

It would be inappropriate to tell an American that tiered receptions are okay because in other parts of the world it is considered acceptable. That fact does not make it polite for an American to offer tiered hospitality to guests when they are American.

It's like you can't read. I specifically said it's fine that the website is directed towards westerners.  My issue was with the statement 'most etiquette rules are universal.' That is a comment steeped in westernised arrogance.  It's fine if everyone on this site is white and american, just don't assume that everything you say is UNIVERSAL FOR THE WHOLE WORLD.  Of course, whatever people say on here will apply in a white american context, I assume. Nothing wrong if the whole site has a western/european ethos. I'm fine with that! Learn to read.

I'm not arguing against my own cultural group. I'm not american, my guests are not. I've never been to America. America has nothing to do with me. I'm a black person living in Britain so what the hell are you talking about?  

redwoodoriginal

@Knottie8f6a5db42e0a0a3d
Why are you even here if you hate our advice and only want to argue with us? Not only did you delete your account, but you created a new one and then comment on posts just to argue? 

You're like, obsessed with us. 

[Deleted User]

redwoodoriginal said:

@Knottie8f6a5db42e0a0a3d
Why are you even here if you hate our advice and only want to argue with us? Not only did you delete your account, but you created a new one and then comment on posts just to argue? 

You're like, obsessed with us. 

redwoodoriginal said:

@Knottie8f6a5db42e0a0a3d
Why are you even here if you hate our advice and only want to argue with us? Not only did you delete your account, but you created a new one and then comment on posts just to argue? 

You're like, obsessed with us. 

Not a new account, same one.  Never deleted it. Yeah, I'm obsessed. I was curious. I don't hate anyone. I don't hate people I don't know. Just disagree.

kimmiinthemitten

@Knottie8f6a5db42e0a0a3d For someone who is calling on a group of strangers to be more inclusive, you sure paint all white Americans with a broad brush, don't you.  Anyways, most rules of etiquette are universal.

For example, traditionally, Indian weddings are very large affairs with hundreds of guests.  However, etiquette still calls for all of those guests to be treated equally.  

Traditionally, guests at Chinese weddings bring a gift of cash in a red envelope.  However, it is still expected that every person is properly thanked for that gift.

You are hosting an event for two different cultures and refusing to recognize the cultural norms for 50% of your guests.  You won't change your ceremony plans because it will be an insult to your extended family, but are perfectly fine with snubbing your friends because pictures.  There are global exceptions to etiquette, but this ain't it.

[Deleted User]

kimmiinthemitten said:

@Knottie8f6a5db42e0a0a3d For someone who is calling on a group of strangers to be more inclusive, you sure paint all white Americans with a broad brush, don't you.  Anyways, most rules of etiquette are universal.

For example, traditionally, Indian weddings are very large affairs with hundreds of guests.  However, etiquette still calls for all of those guests to be treated equally.  

Traditionally, guests at Chinese weddings bring a gift of cash in a red envelope.  However, it is still expected that every person is properly thanked for that gift.

You are hosting an event for two different cultures and refusing to recognize the cultural norms for 50% of your guests.  You won't change your ceremony plans because it will be an insult to your extended family, but are perfectly fine with snubbing your friends because pictures.  There are global exceptions to etiquette, but this ain't it.

What counts as treating guests equally varies between cultures, what counts as proper hosting varies between cultures. You are not making a substantial point because you are talking in such massive generalisations. Yeah humans around the world like to treat people well, yeah, obviously.

How have I painted all white Americans with a broad brush? Just said that some norms (including americans) are not universal. So stop with the fake outrage over comments I am not making.  

I did make the point that most white people have tiered weddings, so not sure how I am snubbing them!  They do 'worse' than me because AS I SAID, they all do evening guests, (well all the ones I know do). Also if we have around 400 guests (as I am predicting), only about 90 max would be white and english, so its hardly 'snubbing 50%' FI has a small family. As I said if all the white people do tiered weddings, why would mine bother them. Especially considering I'm feeding them.

It also makes sense to defer to the culture of the majority of the guests anyway.  If I held an indian wedding with 85% indian guests, would it be weird if the cultural norms I used were indian.

Also my FI is white! If he thought his family/friends didn't like something, we wouldn't do it!


You all seem too forget I'm not marrying myself. My FI is part of the planning process and has agreed to everything! 

ellamber

Knottie8f6a5db42e0a0a3d said:

SP29 said:

Knottie8f6a5db42e0a0a3d said:

I'm so glad you came back to hijack yet another post about how awful we all are for disagreeing you. 

OP has family in City A, City B and lives in City C. She's hosting a wedding in one of those cities. That's not rude. Some people believe DW's are rude, but the general consensus is if you give all of the guests the correct information and make arrangements that keep their comfort in mind, you're not being rude. 

Your plans are rude because you are intentionally misleading half of your guest list in believing they are attending your wedding only to show up to a party already in action.  You're trying to compare apples and oranges because despite hating this place so much you're hellbent on proving your point. If you're really okay with your plans so far, why do you care so much about what we say?

OP- my wedding is 8 days before Christmas (ETA and we have invited family and friends from 13 other states).  People told me that people wouldn't come as a result, we were okay with that. We are now waiting on only 8 RSVP's and have 85% yeses with only 3 no's being Christmas related.  Hopefully, they'll get tired of beating that horse and drop it.  

My posts are more for lurkers than anyone else. I'm not intentionally misleading half the guests. I'll do separate invitations, to make it clear what is happening. I know most knotties won't agree, but I'm not posting for agreement. I'm posting because I want too and I live in a free country that allows me too.  

DWs are rude, if you are inviting a bunch of people! If its just you, partner, mum, dad - that's not so bad.  Expecting people to take time of work, potentially pay for holidays they weren't planning for, and face additional travel expenses is rude. Do you really think you special snowflake wedding should require people to do all that?  Attending a wedding isn't some honoured privilege and destination wedding put a lot of additional costs onto guests. 

I don't believe in passing wedding costs onto guests, but obviously you do.

I don't care what you say in terms of changing my plans. I've decided and paid deposits, so our (my partner's and my plan) is decided.  I don't make life decisions based on anonymous people on the internet! I can still be interested in what other says.  

I also didn't hijack the post - merely pointing out hypocrisy in the unequal way etiquette rules are applied.  If you don't like me being here, tough.  Either report me for violating some rule or grudgingly accept my presence. Freedom of speech means others get to talk, (regardless of what certain less enlightened countries think about what is appropriate speech or protest).

1) If you ever read any DW posts, you would see that MANY Knotties disagree with DWs (a true destination wedding, where the B&G are picking a pretty location). Most would say if someone wants to have a cruise wedding, the B&G should pay for all of their guests' cruises.

And when talking about local weddings, Knotties WILL tell posters to consider location and guest comfort. Most Knotties will say they would prefer a wedding venue location that is 30 mins or less, and prefer a ceremony and reception at the same location. Knotties will say do not prioritize your pretty ceremony space over your guests comfort by making them drive in different directions, or drive for a length of time between ceremony and reception. Not sure why you're hell bent on claiming the opposite.

OP has guests in MANY different cities- there is NOT one convenient location. OP should discuss with their VIPs and decide what works best for B&G and their guests. If OP picked any city, SOMEONE would have to travel. Keeping the wedding in their current location makes it equal that everyone has to travel. Pray tell, what would you advise OP to do that makes everything easy and wholly etiquette approved?

There is always travel involved- even with your wedding in the city. Unless you are going to personally hire a car to pick up each and every one of your guests, there is a travel cost associated.

2) No, no one on here believes in passing on the costs of a wedding to guests. That something Knotties are very much against. Hence Honeyfunds and cash bars are so vehemently struck down. If the venue requires a parking cost, the hosts should be paying it.

Look, anyone is free to host any sort of event they like, when and where they like. The key is that from the start of the event to the end of the event all guests are well and equally hosted. Everyone thinks it's is great you are considering location. However, you are still violating etiquette by taking one event and splitting it into two- you are not treating all of your guests equally. But if you remember, you were given an option that allows you to follow etiquette AND keep the location for your guests- have your ceremony and reception at the same venue! You just don't want to accept that.

OP suggested having the wedding near HER closest location - no consideration of guests there. Of course there has to be travel. Some of my guests are coming from the northern parts of England. I'm in the South. I would suggest doing an event near the vast majority of guests, making the least amount spend additional time and money.  OP doesn't seem to be considering that at all and neither are any knotties.

My FI and I don't want to have it in the same place.  The ceremony is in a prettier place and will be a better experience/better pictures.  We've paid the deposits now and while the reception venue is nice on the inside, it's not that great on the outside. So our families thought a separate place would be nicer. You may find it against your standards of etiquette, but in our social group/country it's  not.  Like I said, most white british people do fully tiered receptions where they only feed a smalll amount, so I don't think what I'm doing will be an issue, especially considering I'm feeding hundreds of people.

Regardles of what some UK knotties say, fully tiered receptions are the norm.  A small amount at wedding and lunch, followed by a bunch in the evening. FI's friends and family (he is white), find it strange we aren't doing that.
Whether people like it or not, evening guests, and cash bars are normal in the UK.  I'm not doing either but I accept that some countries have different etiquette rules. In my culture, evening guests (that don't attend the lunch) are rude.

I think its more rude in the USA.  We don't do things like bridal showers either.

Etiquette isn't universal. It's regional

Knottie#'s:

I've read your threads (that you tried to delete), I"m in a bad fucking mood, and honestly, suck it.

My ENTIRE family, is coming from Montana, NJ, TN, NY, PA, FL, IL, OH, MD. My very good friends live locally (as well as Fi's, they are mutual friends.) FIs family would be coming from FL, NY, NJ and CT.

Where do you suggest I have this wedding? Perhaps I make a map and have a ceremony in each of those locations within a 20 mile radius so that no one has to travel too far and everyone can celebrate with us and get their very own personalized attention. But PPD and re-enactments are frowned upon/poor etiquette/downright stupid so that wont work. Or maybe i can have it in NY and travel there for my hair and make up and board my dogs (an additional cost of course) and yet, my family still has to travel so thats poor etiquette right?

I am going to host a wedding, within my budget, where EVERYONE is invited to the ceremony AND the reception AND has affordable accommodation nearby this location. Are they responsible for getting their asses to the state this is taking place? Yup. That's how weddings work. I was just invited to a friday wedding the friday AFTER a major american holiday in the middle of the damn day with a catholic gap that is 6 hours from me. I'm going to do my best to get there but if I cant make it, I'll send a gift and well wishes. THATS good etiquette. Making sure everyone is comfortable and fed and drinking and having fun, that's all I need to worry about. Should they choose not to come because they have to travel, then I will miss them. 

Youre inconsiderate, NUTS, and need to take a look at your budget and how you are caring for your guests. If you want to hijack threads, just open your own.

MobKaz

Knottie8f6a5db42e0a0a3d said:

kimmiinthemitten said:

@Knottie8f6a5db42e0a0a3d For someone who is calling on a group of strangers to be more inclusive, you sure paint all white Americans with a broad brush, don't you.  Anyways, most rules of etiquette are universal.

For example, traditionally, Indian weddings are very large affairs with hundreds of guests.  However, etiquette still calls for all of those guests to be treated equally.  

Traditionally, guests at Chinese weddings bring a gift of cash in a red envelope.  However, it is still expected that every person is properly thanked for that gift.

You are hosting an event for two different cultures and refusing to recognize the cultural norms for 50% of your guests.  You won't change your ceremony plans because it will be an insult to your extended family, but are perfectly fine with snubbing your friends because pictures.  There are global exceptions to etiquette, but this ain't it.

What counts as treating guests equally varies between cultures, what counts as proper hosting varies between cultures. You are not making a substantial point because you are talking in such massive generalisations. Yeah humans around the world like to treat people well, yeah, obviously.

How have I painted all white Americans with a broad brush? Just said that some norms (including americans) are not universal. So stop with the fake outrage over comments I am not making.  

I did make the point that most white people have tiered weddings, so not sure how I am snubbing them!  They do 'worse' than me because AS I SAID, they all do evening guests, (well all the ones I know do). Also if we have around 400 guests (as I am predicting), only about 90 max would be white and english, so its hardly 'snubbing 50%' FI has a small family. As I said if all the white people do tiered weddings, why would mine bother them. Especially considering I'm feeding them.

It also makes sense to defer to the culture of the majority of the guests anyway.  If I held an indian wedding with 85% indian guests, would it be weird if the cultural norms I used were indian.

Also my FI is white! If he thought his family/friends didn't like something, we wouldn't do it!


You all seem too forget I'm not marrying myself. My FI is part of the planning process and has agreed to everything! 

I am quite impressed that between you and your FI, you seem to know the inner thoughts of your entire guest list!

kimmiinthemitten

Basically, amberdaisy1005 said:

Keisha84

Knottie8f6a5db42e0a0a3d said:

Where on this entire thread did anyone say they were passing wedding costs onto their guests and who validated it?  Nowhere. You literally just made that up.

And most etiquette rules are universal. Traditions are regional. Don't confuse the two. 

The costs issue was related to my point on DW.  Also, etiquette rules are not universal! Are you kidding. Most of the etiquette on here relates to Western, white majority countries that (if your read the history of etiquette) come from France, (originally).  The etiquette rules discussed on this wesbite DO NOT APPLY WORLDWIDE.  Don't be so arrogant to believe that white people get to tell the world how to act.  

I know the TK is directed towards a western audience, so its fine that the etiquette is western-orientated, but you said 'most etiquette rules are universal.'  Maybe get a passport and visit another country.  Wedding traditions vary widely across different countries, as do social rules. English and america have different values, social norms, etiquette rules.  There is some crossover, but they are not carbon-copies.

It looks like you are pretending that white western (americans) norms amount to 'etiquette' but anything else is 'tradition.'  That's demeaning to the vast majority of the world's population.  

I'm of Carribbean descent myself and I can tell you there are things we do in our culture regarding weddings that are plain rude. Bringing uninvited guests to an event is rude. I don't care if it's the norm it is rude. Traditions and customs are very different from doing what I want under the guise of tradition and custom. The whole point of guests coming to your wedding is to see you get married. If the only reason they are showing up is for free food and drinks then you need to rethink your guest list. Maybe your family and friends are ok with it but stopping trying to say that people are not respecting your culture by saying it's rude. 

[Deleted User]

Keisha84 said:

Knottie8f6a5db42e0a0a3d said:

Where on this entire thread did anyone say they were passing wedding costs onto their guests and who validated it?  Nowhere. You literally just made that up.

And most etiquette rules are universal. Traditions are regional. Don't confuse the two. 

The costs issue was related to my point on DW.  Also, etiquette rules are not universal! Are you kidding. Most of the etiquette on here relates to Western, white majority countries that (if your read the history of etiquette) come from France, (originally).  The etiquette rules discussed on this wesbite DO NOT APPLY WORLDWIDE.  Don't be so arrogant to believe that white people get to tell the world how to act.  

I know the TK is directed towards a western audience, so its fine that the etiquette is western-orientated, but you said 'most etiquette rules are universal.'  Maybe get a passport and visit another country.  Wedding traditions vary widely across different countries, as do social rules. English and america have different values, social norms, etiquette rules.  There is some crossover, but they are not carbon-copies.

It looks like you are pretending that white western (americans) norms amount to 'etiquette' but anything else is 'tradition.'  That's demeaning to the vast majority of the world's population.  

I'm of Carribbean descent myself and I can tell you there are things we do in our culture regarding weddings that are plain rude. Bringing uninvited guests to an event is rude. I don't care if it's the norm it is rude. Traditions and customs are very different from doing what I want under the guise of tradition and custom. The whole point of guests coming to your wedding is to see you get married. If the only reason they are showing up is for free food and drinks then you need to rethink your guest list. Maybe your family and friends are ok with it but stopping trying to say that people are not respecting your culture by saying it's rude. 

If you find so much wrong with caribbean weddings, it's not the weddings that are the problem, it's you. Since you seem to expect other countries to subscribe to a western idea of politeness. I don't look to europeans/western world to tell me what is acceptable and it says a lot about your mindset that you do. At one point 'separate but equal' was considered the height of politeness in certain countries. Look at how people like Colin Kapernick are being treated for simply kneeling - probably one of the most restrained things a person can do and some people call that 'rude!' Caribbean weddings are about celebrating the couple's union. You don't need to actually see the wedding to do that.

MobKaz

Knottie8f6a5db42e0a0a3d said:

Keisha84 said:

Knottie8f6a5db42e0a0a3d said:

Where on this entire thread did anyone say they were passing wedding costs onto their guests and who validated it?  Nowhere. You literally just made that up.

And most etiquette rules are universal. Traditions are regional. Don't confuse the two. 

The costs issue was related to my point on DW.  Also, etiquette rules are not universal! Are you kidding. Most of the etiquette on here relates to Western, white majority countries that (if your read the history of etiquette) come from France, (originally).  The etiquette rules discussed on this wesbite DO NOT APPLY WORLDWIDE.  Don't be so arrogant to believe that white people get to tell the world how to act.  

I know the TK is directed towards a western audience, so its fine that the etiquette is western-orientated, but you said 'most etiquette rules are universal.'  Maybe get a passport and visit another country.  Wedding traditions vary widely across different countries, as do social rules. English and america have different values, social norms, etiquette rules.  There is some crossover, but they are not carbon-copies.

It looks like you are pretending that white western (americans) norms amount to 'etiquette' but anything else is 'tradition.'  That's demeaning to the vast majority of the world's population.  

I'm of Carribbean descent myself and I can tell you there are things we do in our culture regarding weddings that are plain rude. Bringing uninvited guests to an event is rude. I don't care if it's the norm it is rude. Traditions and customs are very different from doing what I want under the guise of tradition and custom. The whole point of guests coming to your wedding is to see you get married. If the only reason they are showing up is for free food and drinks then you need to rethink your guest list. Maybe your family and friends are ok with it but stopping trying to say that people are not respecting your culture by saying it's rude. 

If you find so much wrong with caribbean weddings, it's not the weddings that are the problem, it's you. Since you seem to expect other countries to subscribe to a western idea of politeness. I don't look to europeans/western world to tell me what is acceptable and it says a lot about your mindset that you do. At one point 'separate but equal' was considered the height of politeness in certain countries. Look at how people like Colin Kapernick are being treated for simply kneeling - probably one of the most restrained things a person can do and some people call that 'rude!' Caribbean weddings are about celebrating the couple's union. You don't need to actually see the wedding to do that.

Regardless of how his act is perceived from either POV, his act is hardly simple.  But that is for another thread.  You have quite a talent for diminishing/justifying actions and their consequences. 

 "Caribbean weddings are about celebrating the couple's union. You don't need to actually see the wedding to do that."  A guest may be too polite to tell you that what you are doing is rude, but it is.  You don't actually have to hear their words to know that.

Heffalump

Knottie8f6a5db42e0a0a3d said:

Keisha84 said:

I'm of Carribbean descent myself and I can tell you there are things we do in our culture regarding weddings that are plain rude. Bringing uninvited guests to an event is rude. I don't care if it's the norm it is rude. Traditions and customs are very different from doing what I want under the guise of tradition and custom. The whole point of guests coming to your wedding is to see you get married. If the only reason they are showing up is for free food and drinks then you need to rethink your guest list. Maybe your family and friends are ok with it but stopping trying to say that people are not respecting your culture by saying it's rude. 

If you find so much wrong with caribbean weddings, it's not the weddings that are the problem, it's you. Since you seem to expect other countries to subscribe to a western idea of politeness. I don't look to europeans/western world to tell me what is acceptable and it says a lot about your mindset that you do. At one point 'separate but equal' was considered the height of politeness in certain countries. Look at how people like Colin Kapernick are being treated for simply kneeling - probably one of the most restrained things a person can do and some people call that 'rude!' Caribbean weddings are about celebrating the couple's union. You don't need to actually see the wedding to do that.

Thank goodness the OP is British, or I would be bracing for a Rosa Parks comparison right about now. 

charlotte989875

Knottie8f6a5db42e0a0a3d said:

Keisha84 said:

Knottie8f6a5db42e0a0a3d said:

Where on this entire thread did anyone say they were passing wedding costs onto their guests and who validated it?  Nowhere. You literally just made that up.

And most etiquette rules are universal. Traditions are regional. Don't confuse the two. 

The costs issue was related to my point on DW.  Also, etiquette rules are not universal! Are you kidding. Most of the etiquette on here relates to Western, white majority countries that (if your read the history of etiquette) come from France, (originally).  The etiquette rules discussed on this wesbite DO NOT APPLY WORLDWIDE.  Don't be so arrogant to believe that white people get to tell the world how to act.  

I know the TK is directed towards a western audience, so its fine that the etiquette is western-orientated, but you said 'most etiquette rules are universal.'  Maybe get a passport and visit another country.  Wedding traditions vary widely across different countries, as do social rules. English and america have different values, social norms, etiquette rules.  There is some crossover, but they are not carbon-copies.

It looks like you are pretending that white western (americans) norms amount to 'etiquette' but anything else is 'tradition.'  That's demeaning to the vast majority of the world's population.  

I'm of Carribbean descent myself and I can tell you there are things we do in our culture regarding weddings that are plain rude. Bringing uninvited guests to an event is rude. I don't care if it's the norm it is rude. Traditions and customs are very different from doing what I want under the guise of tradition and custom. The whole point of guests coming to your wedding is to see you get married. If the only reason they are showing up is for free food and drinks then you need to rethink your guest list. Maybe your family and friends are ok with it but stopping trying to say that people are not respecting your culture by saying it's rude. 

If you find so much wrong with caribbean weddings, it's not the weddings that are the problem, it's you. Since you seem to expect other countries to subscribe to a western idea of politeness. I don't look to europeans/western world to tell me what is acceptable and it says a lot about your mindset that you do. At one point 'separate but equal' was considered the height of politeness in certain countries. Look at how people like Colin Kapernick are being treated for simply kneeling - probably one of the most restrained things a person can do and some people call that 'rude!' Caribbean weddings are about celebrating the couple's union. You don't need to actually see the wedding to do that.

Okay, you're way out of line here. You can defend your wedding plans all you like, but you're seriously comparing the legal discrimination of an entire group of people based on their skin color to tiered weddings. You're being blatantly inflammatory and offensive. This was a heinous time in our country's history that was not about the "the height of politeness", it was about repression. And you're somehow comparing this to being rude to wedding guests?!

Keisha84

Knottie8f6a5db42e0a0a3d said:

Keisha84 said:

Knottie8f6a5db42e0a0a3d said:

Where on this entire thread did anyone say they were passing wedding costs onto their guests and who validated it?  Nowhere. You literally just made that up.

And most etiquette rules are universal. Traditions are regional. Don't confuse the two. 

The costs issue was related to my point on DW.  Also, etiquette rules are not universal! Are you kidding. Most of the etiquette on here relates to Western, white majority countries that (if your read the history of etiquette) come from France, (originally).  The etiquette rules discussed on this wesbite DO NOT APPLY WORLDWIDE.  Don't be so arrogant to believe that white people get to tell the world how to act.  

I know the TK is directed towards a western audience, so its fine that the etiquette is western-orientated, but you said 'most etiquette rules are universal.'  Maybe get a passport and visit another country.  Wedding traditions vary widely across different countries, as do social rules. English and america have different values, social norms, etiquette rules.  There is some crossover, but they are not carbon-copies.

It looks like you are pretending that white western (americans) norms amount to 'etiquette' but anything else is 'tradition.'  That's demeaning to the vast majority of the world's population.  

I'm of Carribbean descent myself and I can tell you there are things we do in our culture regarding weddings that are plain rude. Bringing uninvited guests to an event is rude. I don't care if it's the norm it is rude. Traditions and customs are very different from doing what I want under the guise of tradition and custom. The whole point of guests coming to your wedding is to see you get married. If the only reason they are showing up is for free food and drinks then you need to rethink your guest list. Maybe your family and friends are ok with it but stopping trying to say that people are not respecting your culture by saying it's rude. 

If you find so much wrong with caribbean weddings, it's not the weddings that are the problem, it's you. Since you seem to expect other countries to subscribe to a western idea of politeness. I don't look to europeans/western world to tell me what is acceptable and it says a lot about your mindset that you do. At one point 'separate but equal' was considered the height of politeness in certain countries. Look at how people like Colin Kapernick are being treated for simply kneeling - probably one of the most restrained things a person can do and some people call that 'rude!' Caribbean weddings are about celebrating the couple's union. You don't need to actually see the wedding to do that.

There is nothing wrong with Carribbean weddings. I love and embrace my culture. What is wrong is you passing your twisted sense of entitlement off as tradition or culture. It's your wedding and you will do as you please but trust me your guest will think you are rude and inconsiderate. Tickets from the islands to England are not cheap and if I paid all that money and found out I wasn't even invited to the ceremony I would be livid. Your union is not about food and drinks. It is about you standing before God and devoting yourself to your partner. Our Carribbean people are deeply religious and take this very seriously. But I guess that's a custom and tradition you are going to ignore for the sake of your vision.  

If you have so much dislike and contempt for 'western' views why are you marrying a man that has these views? You have spent a lot of time pointing out the differences in the two cultures but have not discussed a way on how you will unite these differences. I'm marrying a man from another Carribbean island and they do things very different from mine. We are compromising and taking things from both culture and making them our own. 

Your wedding does not compare to what Colin is doing. You have to be completely self absorbed to think your stand on The Knot can be linked to his activism. 

[Deleted User]

Keisha84 said:

Knottie8f6a5db42e0a0a3d said:

Keisha84 said:

Knottie8f6a5db42e0a0a3d said:

Where on this entire thread did anyone say they were passing wedding costs onto their guests and who validated it?  Nowhere. You literally just made that up.

And most etiquette rules are universal. Traditions are regional. Don't confuse the two. 

The costs issue was related to my point on DW.  Also, etiquette rules are not universal! Are you kidding. Most of the etiquette on here relates to Western, white majority countries that (if your read the history of etiquette) come from France, (originally).  The etiquette rules discussed on this wesbite DO NOT APPLY WORLDWIDE.  Don't be so arrogant to believe that white people get to tell the world how to act.  

I know the TK is directed towards a western audience, so its fine that the etiquette is western-orientated, but you said 'most etiquette rules are universal.'  Maybe get a passport and visit another country.  Wedding traditions vary widely across different countries, as do social rules. English and america have different values, social norms, etiquette rules.  There is some crossover, but they are not carbon-copies.

It looks like you are pretending that white western (americans) norms amount to 'etiquette' but anything else is 'tradition.'  That's demeaning to the vast majority of the world's population.  

I'm of Carribbean descent myself and I can tell you there are things we do in our culture regarding weddings that are plain rude. Bringing uninvited guests to an event is rude. I don't care if it's the norm it is rude. Traditions and customs are very different from doing what I want under the guise of tradition and custom. The whole point of guests coming to your wedding is to see you get married. If the only reason they are showing up is for free food and drinks then you need to rethink your guest list. Maybe your family and friends are ok with it but stopping trying to say that people are not respecting your culture by saying it's rude. 

If you find so much wrong with caribbean weddings, it's not the weddings that are the problem, it's you. Since you seem to expect other countries to subscribe to a western idea of politeness. I don't look to europeans/western world to tell me what is acceptable and it says a lot about your mindset that you do. At one point 'separate but equal' was considered the height of politeness in certain countries. Look at how people like Colin Kapernick are being treated for simply kneeling - probably one of the most restrained things a person can do and some people call that 'rude!' Caribbean weddings are about celebrating the couple's union. You don't need to actually see the wedding to do that.

There is nothing wrong with Carribbean weddings. I love and embrace my culture. What is wrong is you passing your twisted sense of entitlement off as tradition or culture. It's your wedding and you will do as you please but trust me your guest will think you are rude and inconsiderate. Tickets from the islands to England are not cheap and if I paid all that money and found out I wasn't even invited to the ceremony I would be livid. Your union is not about food and drinks. It is about you standing before God and devoting yourself to your partner. Our Carribbean people are deeply religious and take this very seriously. But I guess that's a custom and tradition you are going to ignore for the sake of your vision.  

If you have so much dislike and contempt for 'western' views why are you marrying a man that has these views? You have spent a lot of time pointing out the differences in the two cultures but have not discussed a way on how you will unite these differences. I'm marrying a man from another Carribbean island and they do things very different from mine. We are compromising and taking things from both culture and making them our own. 

Your wedding does not compare to what Colin is doing. You have to be completely self absorbed to think your stand on The Knot can be linked to his activism. 

Just signing off for the last time. Because there is just too much stupidness on this website. HOW DARE YOU TEL ME WHAT MY WEDDING ABOUT? What's all this before God nonsense. When they hell did I say was religious? Not every single Caribbean person is super religious and many are waking up to the fact that religion, especially Christianity is a riduculous mishmash of pagan beliefs, and other nonsense designed to enslave the mind, women, maintain patriarchy and take money from poor people. Keep your unthinking rubbish to yourself and actually read the history of religion. IF YOU WANT TO PUT YOUR FAITH IN SOMETHING YOU CAN'T SEE. I DON'T CARE. I'm actually having a civil ceremony. I NEVER SAID I WAS LIKE COLIN KAPERNICK OR THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT FOR ALL YOU IDIOTS THAT CANT' READ. JUST MAKING THE POINT THAT WAS IS POLITE CHANGES OVER TIME. I'm aware that the US history concerning civil rights is one long hypocritical embarassment. Making the point, THAT WHAT IS POLITE CAN CHANGE. YOU OVER THE TOP HARPIES DON'T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND HOW THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE WORKS. I NEVER SAID I HAVE DIFFERENCES WITH MY PARTNER, otherwise why would we be getting married, you idiot! I don't need to discuss the full in and outs of my wedding online. You have no idea how I'm incorporating different culture. If you don't like what I'm doing you. Well haters gonna hate. Goodbye to you, this board and all this nonsense. In the real world people get on with their lives without the help of the knot. HATERS GONNA HATE.

Keisha84

I guess I hit a nerve. Good luck to you and I hope your wedding is everything you want 

charlotte989875

Heffalump

kimmiinthemitten

cowgirl8238

But wait...I need to know if she feels bad for my DH before she leaves...then I won't get Bingo

sparklepants41

justsie

Thank goodness, can this thread now get back on the right track since it was rudely derailed? 

Keisha84

@amberdaisy1005 Im sorry your thread got sidetracked. I would love to hear advice on this subject. I'm dealing with unwanted comments by giving very short direct answers. But that hasn't stopped the comments 

ellamber

Keisha84 said:

@amberdaisy1005 Im sorry your thread got sidetracked. I would love to hear advice on this subject. I'm dealing with unwanted comments by giving very short direct answers. But that hasn't stopped the comments 

That's ok, I thought this thread was over honestly. We luckily haven't had too much more, but I'm sure it'll start up again when we actually book a venue and a date. I'm going to go with the smile, nod, change the subject approach. That's about all I can muster sometimes.

kimmiinthemitten

amberdaisy1005 said:

Keisha84 said:

@amberdaisy1005 Im sorry your thread got sidetracked. I would love to hear advice on this subject. I'm dealing with unwanted comments by giving very short direct answers. But that hasn't stopped the comments 

That's ok, I thought this thread was over honestly. We luckily haven't had too much more, but I'm sure it'll start up again when we actually book a venue and a date. I'm going to go with the smile, nod, change the subject approach. That's about all I can muster sometimes.

We call that the bean dip.  

"Thanks for mentioning that.  Have you tried the bean dip?"

SP29

Keisha84 said:

@amberdaisy1005 Im sorry your thread got sidetracked. I would love to hear advice on this subject. I'm dealing with unwanted comments by giving very short direct answers. But that hasn't stopped the comments 

Rinse and repeat. You are not required to justify your actions, so you are free to share as much or as little information as you like. I would keep to the "little" side- when you start trying to justify, people come up with "solutions" to the perceived "problem" (even though it's not a problem to you- they just aren't invited!).

Jen4948

[Deleted User] said:

Jen4948 said:

Knottie8f6a5db42e0a0a3d said:

Where on this entire thread did anyone say they were passing wedding costs onto their guests and who validated it?  Nowhere. You literally just made that up.

And most etiquette rules are universal. Traditions are regional. Don't confuse the two. 

The costs issue was related to my point on DW.  Also, etiquette rules are not universal! Are you kidding. Most of the etiquette on here relates to Western, white majority countries that (if your read the history of etiquette) come from France, (originally).  The etiquette rules discussed on this wesbite DO NOT APPLY WORLDWIDE.  Don't be so arrogant to believe that white people get to tell the world how to act.  

I know the TK is directed towards a western audience, so its fine that the etiquette is western-orientated, but you said 'most etiquette rules are universal.'  Maybe get a passport and visit another country.  Wedding traditions vary widely across different countries, as do social rules. English and america have different values, social norms, etiquette rules.  There is some crossover, but they are not carbon-copies.

It looks like you are pretending that white western (americans) norms amount to 'etiquette' but anything else is 'tradition.'  That's demeaning to the vast majority of the world's population.  

Something that is rude is to help yourself to the traditions of a group you are not a member of and use them to argue against your own group's cultural and etiquette norms.

Since the vast majority of the members of this forum ARE American or Western, we are going to tailor our answers to them.

It would be inappropriate to tell an American that tiered receptions are okay because in other parts of the world it is considered acceptable. That fact does not make it polite for an American to offer tiered hospitality to guests when they are American.

It's like you can't read. I specifically said it's fine that the website is directed towards westerners.  My issue was with the statement 'most etiquette rules are universal.' That is a comment steeped in westernised arrogance.  It's fine if everyone on this site is white and american, just don't assume that everything you say is UNIVERSAL FOR THE WHOLE WORLD.  Of course, whatever people say on here will apply in a white american context, I assume. Nothing wrong if the whole site has a western/european ethos. I'm fine with that! Learn to read.

I'm not arguing against my own cultural group. I'm not american, my guests are not. I've never been to America. America has nothing to do with me. I'm a black person living in Britain so what the hell are you talking about?  

Ta-ta!