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Friend plans to burn cot she wants back

lovesclimbinglovesclimbing member
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in Wedding Woes
I hope I'm not jumping the gun by posting this, but I typically don't see the Slate Plus ones posted. I wanted to post this one because I think Prudie got it wrong. I'll post her response later. 

TW: child loss. 

Dear Prudence,
When my friend became pregnant she asked me if she could buy my kids’ old cot. I told her she could borrow it but made it clear I wanted it returned when she was finished. She knows the cot holds a lot of sentimental value for me, as my late grandfather made it. Unfortunately her baby boy passed away unexpectedly and she is planning to burn everything he used due to religious beliefs. Yesterday I went to her place and saw the cot pushed out into the garage along with everything else she is planning to burn. It wasn’t the time to say anything so I held my tongue but I really want my old cot back. I would be devastated if she burns this. Is it callous if I contact her and ask about the cot while she is mourning?

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Re: Friend plans to burn cot she wants back

  • ei34ei34 member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    If the friend will be burning everything while she's still mourning, then I guess she has to contact her while she's mourning.  If I were LW though, I'd let it go.  Child loss trumps an heirloom (in my opinion). 
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  • HeffalumpHeffalump member
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    lovesclimbing said:
    I hope I'm not jumping the gun by posting this, but I typically don't see the Slate Plus ones posted. I wanted to post this one because I think Prudie got it wrong. I'll post her response later. 

    TW: child loss. 

    Dear Prudence,
    When my friend became pregnant she asked me if she could buy my kids’ old cot. I told her she could borrow it but made it clear I wanted it returned when she was finished. She knows the cot holds a lot of sentimental value for me, as my late grandfather made it. Unfortunately her baby boy passed away unexpectedly and she is planning to burn everything he used due to religious beliefs. Yesterday I went to her place and saw the cot pushed out into the garage along with everything else she is planning to burn. It wasn’t the time to say anything so I held my tongue but I really want my old cot back. I would be devastated if she burns this. Is it callous if I contact her and ask about the cot while she is mourning?


    OMG...you're a Plussie!

    Anyway, yeesh, this is a tough one.  After going back and forth, I'm going to have to finally go with "let it go."  If it were not a religious conviction, I might be inclined to try to gently bring it up.  (How you would even go about that, I don't know.)  But honestly, I don't think that there is any way to say "My attachment to an object is more important that your religious beliefs about your dead child."  Just no. 

    This is why you don't lend things that you can't bear to part with.  As the Buddha so wisely pointed out, attachment to impermanent things leads to suffering.  The LW should be thankful that all she has lost is a crib.   
    �
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  • HeffalumpHeffalump member
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    mrsconn23 said:
    Ugh.  Losing a child is a special kind of hellish grief.  I cannot even begin to imagine how this woman feels. 

    However, this cot is not her friend's cot.  She loaned it to her with the expectation that it was going to come back.  It's sentimental to LW and a connection to her deceased grandfather (which who knows when the grandpa died?  The kiddo has things MIL gave him that he will cherish and keep forever and mean more to him now since she died last year). Obviously LW sees this as something that could be passed down through her family/to her future children.  I don't think that should be discounted here either. 

    If the friend has a husband/sibling/mom/etc that the LW feels comfortable reaching out to and discussing the cot...Maybe go that route?  

    I *don't* think it's petty that the LW wants the cot back.  However, I'm not sure it's a hill to die on.  

    I was initially leaning toward this answer.  I'm pretty unsentimental about things, but DH is the opposite.  If he had answered, I think he would have agreed with you.
    �
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  • 6fsn6fsn member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Letter writer should have never leant it. I have a cot my great grandfather made my grandfather all my aunts, uncles, cousins, and my kids generation have used it. I'd be devastated if someone along the line let it get burned. 

    That at ship has sailed though. I like the idea of reaching out through a peripheral person. If mom still wants to burn lw needs to let it go, but I'm guessing she'll never forgive. 
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  • bleve0821bleve0821 member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    I think LW should let it go.  I understand there is a lot of sentimentality attached to this cot, and as a sentimental person, I can understand the desire to hold on to that with a stranglehold... But at the end of the day, it's a thing.  It's an object, and LW's friend lost her child.  The letter doesn't indicate how close they are as friends, but if I thought burning that cot would bring my friend any kind of relief to her pain, I'd light the match for her, borrowed item or not.

    If the destruction of an item that meant a lot to me had the power to help someone I cared about, I'd do my best to find a way to transmute the attachment I held in its physicality to its memory.


    "And when they use our atoms to make new lives, they won’t just be able to take one, they’ll have to take two, one of you and one of me..."
    --Philip Pullman

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  • mrsconn23mrsconn23 member
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    Prudie's response:

    While I’m sympathetic to your position—it’s a beloved family heirloom that you’d hate to lose—I simply cannot think of a single way you can ask for it back that would not add to your friend’s grief. Her son slept in that cot and now he has died; the burning of the belongings of the dead is a sacred ritual in many traditions, including among the Romani people, and an act that likely holds great meaning for her as she mourns her child. She is not keeping the cot out of forgetfulness or selfishness. It is a wrench for you to lose something your late grandfather made and which holds such value for you, but lending objects to others always carries an element of risk, and this is one unexpected result that has changed the circumstances. You must realize that this cot now holds a great deal of sentimental value to your friend as well. On balance I believe her claim is stronger, and I think as hard as it might be you should let it go, and find as many ways as possible to be helpful to her during what is surely the worst time of her life.
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  • MissKittyDangerMissKittyDanger member
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    DrillSergeantCat said:
    I wouldn't have lent it to begin with, but I also would wait a few days and then say, "I noticed the cot my grandfather made out in the garage with the items you were going to burn. I'd really appreciate it if you didn't burn it. I would like to pick it up Saturday and I'll have a priest bless it."

    The caveat to burning the deceased's belongings is that it is their belongings. In this case, this was not the deceased's cot. 
    I'm not familiar with religion, but could this work? I'm also not familiar with the burning of the items ...
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  • DrillSergeantCatDrillSergeantCat member
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    MissKittyDanger said:
    DrillSergeantCat said:
    I wouldn't have lent it to begin with, but I also would wait a few days and then say, "I noticed the cot my grandfather made out in the garage with the items you were going to burn. I'd really appreciate it if you didn't burn it. I would like to pick it up Saturday and I'll have a priest bless it."

    The caveat to burning the deceased's belongings is that it is their belongings. In this case, this was not the deceased's cot. 
    I'm not familiar with religion, but could this work? I'm also not familiar with the burning of the items ...
    I looked at a couple of different religion sites and one said to set the items aside for 6 months and then have it blessed. The other said to burn their belongings. 

    I am fortunate enough to not have experienced the loss of a child, but I think I would tell my friend to come get her crib. It would cause me anxiety to hold onto it knowing I won't be using it.
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  • kimmiinthemittenkimmiinthemitten member
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    lovesclimbing said: 
    This is where I came down. I thought Prudie was wrong with her response. This is not the bereaved woman's or her son's belonging to destroy. Is she going to go to daycare and ask to have the mat or crib he slept in to burn? The swing he used at the playground?

    This is a terrible situation, but I believe the mom should have offered it back. The LW shouldn't have to ask for it, because the mom should be giving it back to her unprompted. But if she doesn't, I think it's ok to try to get it back. 
    I'm here.  I can't imagine her loss and her grief.  But she asked to share in a sentimental object and needs to respect that sentiment and return it.

    The risk of not is losing a friend (or at minimum damaging the relationship with  someone) who she will need to help her cope with her grief long term.

    *I'm assuming they're very close because it takes a lot to ask to borrow a sentimental heirloom from an acquaintance.
    image
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  • levioosalevioosa member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    My mom has a chest my great-grandfather made. It is a beautiful work of art, and it has enormous sentimental value to her. One day it will be mine. While I'm not all that sentimental, I realize it has a lot of meaning and I would never want it destroyed. It's beautiful and they don't make chests like that anymore either.  I realize that a loss like the LW'a friend is devastating, but even if i was in that position I don't think I would be able to burn someone else's valued object. Maybe like a onesie or something, but not something handmade and sentimental to a friend. My heart goes out to those who have suffered a loss. 


    image
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  • TrixieJessTrixieJess member
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    SaintPaulGal said:
    This is totally off topic, but I think it's fascinating to learn new regionalisms.  I am assuming from context that the item in question is one of these:


    ...but in my world, a cot is something like this:



    On topic, I think she should ask but be prepared to let it go.  If I were in her shoes I would probably go to the friend and ask if there was any religiously-approved alternative to the burning.  Something like, "Friend, I understand if this is something that you must do to fulfill a religious obligation, but it would be really hard for me to lose this connection to my grandfather.  Is there any other way to [cleanse the object/usher the child into the afterlife/whatever this ritual is supposed to accomplish]?"
    Yep, a cot is a crib or a cradle. 
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  • DrillSergeantCatDrillSergeantCat member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its

    The Vikings of old Scandinavia sometimes buried their kings and queens in their ships, but the traditional Viking funeral was to set the dragon-headed longboat afire and send it out to sea to burn. On the Danish colony of Greenland, the Vikings who settled on its shores believed that there was danger of pollution from the evil spirits that lurked around the corpse until the smell of death had passed away. They burned the dead body almost before it became cold and tried to avoid inhaling any of the fumes from the fire. They also burned every object in the dead person's house.

    The Zulu tribe of Africa always burns the property of the dead to prevent evil spirits from remaining in the person's home. Many Native American tribes followed the same custom of burning the possessions of the deceased, and it is not uncommon to hear of contemporary men and women who, after the funeral of a relative, superstitiously burn the individual's clothes and other belongings.


    from http://www.unexplainedstuff.com/Superstitions-Strange-Customs-Taboos-and-Urban-Legends/Strange-Customs-and-Taboos-Burials-and-funerals.html

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  • SaintPaulGalSaintPaulGal member
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    short+sassy said:

    I assumed from the context of the letter that it was a crib.  But I'm with a lot of you, I've never heard a crib called a cot before today.

    I'm also with the LW politely and respectively asking for the crib back.  Maybe I'm hard hearted, but a devastating loss does not give someone the right to hurt another person or destroy their property.

    I think for me it is the religious aspect rather than the loss itself that prompts me to give much more leeway here.  I am not religious myself anymore, and I am completely unfamiliar with religious traditions that would require burning things, but if this really is a religious duty I think that trumps the ownership issue between friends.  You wouldn't want your friend to feel that her child was denied something in some version of an afterlife just so you could keep a few pieces of sentimental wood.  If it's less of a religious mandate and more of a grieving ritual then I would personally be more comfortable making stronger demands. 
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  • DrillSergeantCatDrillSergeantCat member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    SaintPaulGal said:
    I think for me it is the religious aspect rather than the loss itself that prompts me to give much more leeway here.  I am not religious myself anymore, and I am completely unfamiliar with religious traditions that would require burning things, but if this really is a religious duty I think that trumps the ownership issue between friends.  You wouldn't want your friend to feel that her child was denied something in some version of an afterlife just so you could keep a few pieces of sentimental wood.  If it's less of a religious mandate and more of a grieving ritual then I would personally be more comfortable making stronger demands. 
    I'm trying to figure out which religion requires burning belongings and Romany's keep popping up. Someone asked how far it goes and should they burn their house, too and it used to be that everything including their living wagon would be burned; today, though they just sell everything. 

    In African religions, they only burn the clothing of the deceased. 

    Some North American Indians also burn all belongings including their home. 

    That's all I can find, though. 
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  • Ro041Ro041 member
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    @DrillSergeantCat - Irish Travellers also have a tradition of burning the belongings (and wagon or car) of a deceased person.  I'm not sure if it's religious or cultural but you can still occasionally see an abandoned car full of stuff or a burnt car on the side of the road once owned by a deceased traveller.  

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  • thisismynickname2thisismynickname2 member
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    If I wanted to foster the afterlife or prevent evil spirits from being around there are plenty of non destructive ways of doing that (i.e. covering mirrors with cloth).
    But judge not, lest ye we judged. 

    Please excuse me for sounding completely morbid but if a child had died IN my crib I wouldn't want it back. If not, find the least offensive way to ask for it back. The crib was borrowed. 
    ________________________________


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