Wedding Woes

Child B was wrong, IMO.

Dear Prudence,
I am a retiree with four adult children. I am proud of all of them. All are successful in their respective fields (none of which are financially rewarding). All are married. Child A has no children, Child B has five, Child C has three, and Child D has two. I recently received a large inheritance (think seven figures) and told my children that I wanted to divide it between them now, rather than wait until I die. Child B asked if I would consider using some of the money to give gifts to my grandchildren, an idea I agreed to if Child B could come up with a formula that would be fair to all. It was suggested that the money be divided into five shares, with each of my four children receiving one full share and the fifth share divided equally among the ten grandchildren. Child A—who has no children—objected, arguing that Child B’s suggestion was an attempt to take more than his or her fair share and listing many previous occasions on which Child A had felt obligated to make financial concessions to a sibling.

In the end, I divided the money four ways. I would like to be able to give gifts to my grandchildren, but I also want to be fair to my four children. Was it out of place for Child B to suggest that a portion of the money be given to grandchildren? Is it unfair for a grandparent to give significant gifts to grandchildren if that means that some families will get more than others?

—A Proud Parent Who Wants to Be Fair

«1

Re: Child B was wrong, IMO.

  • Personal story:

    My dad has 2 sisters.  Their father had some stock for a very very long time.  That stock does fairly well, and is usually quite steady.  When he was getting older he told my dad that he wanted his stock split among the three children.  He told my dad this because my dad was executor of his will.  My dad helped him set that up.  My aunts, who both went a little nutty when my grandma died, fighting over jewelry and whatnot initially liked the idea. . . . then my middle aunt had an idea that the grandchildren should get some stock too.  I think she was doing it to get more than the younger aunt who had no children at the time.  My grandpa could see right through her nonsense.  My grandpa also always held a special place in his heart for my dad, his only son, who didn't go to college so that he could stay and help my grandpa on the family farm despite it not being very profitable.  (My dad is pretty much the greatest, most considerate person ever, but I digress).  So grandpa agreed and divided up additional stock amongst the grandkids. . . . me and my 2 sisters and my 1 cousin without telling my aunt how he divided it. After he passed, and she figured out that my dad's family technically got more money than her family she lost her mind. 

  • I think her first mistake was saying she wanted to divide the amount now, while she was still living.  I am understanding her that she is taking the full 7 figures and dividing that amongst her kids and not keeping any for herself.

    She should not have mentioned about passing the money along.  It let Child B butt their head into something that they should not have had a say in.  LW was right in the end.

    What LW should have done is just given a generous amount to each Child now.  Perhaps give a smaller amount to each grandchild to help with a college fund or something, IF she wished.  And kept another amount for herself, just in case.  Then once LW does pass, the remaining estate can be divided equally between the children and any children with kids can decide to give them more from their part.

  • CMGragainCMGragain member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    edited November 2017
    Um..those gift taxes will take a huge bite out of the cash gifts. There are better ways to give money to family members.  See a lawyer! 

    https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/frequently-asked-questions-on-gift-taxes

    httpiimgurcomTCCjW0wjpg
  • In theory, Child B is right - pass along to grandkids - but given that Child A doesn't have kids, how would that pan out for them?

    If LW passed out to their kids, they can do as they wish with the money. If Children B, C and D would rather put aside for their kids they can and say "LW we've decided to put it towards trust acct for our kids" that's their choice.

    Child A doesn't have kids and shouldn't be condemned {lack of better words} for not having kids. 
  • My grandma recently divided up her estate with an attorney.  The attorney said that it is common to leave money to just children, but it also equally common to leave money to children and grandchildren.  However, he thought she was crazy for wanting to leave money for great grandchildren as well.

    It never once occurred to me to be upset that my sister has kids and I don't so they are getting something that my non-kids aren't getting (or they are cutting into my share).

    LW's mistake was asking for input about how to split up the money.  It's not her kids' money and they should be a bit more classy in their expectations and the gift they are receiving.  Both of them.

  • It just gets dicey.   

    Frankly I think it's best to divide among the kids and not the grandchildren unless there are extenuating circumstances.

    Ex: In FIL's family three of the siblings had kids, one passed young and two did not.   FIL had two, one had 12 and one had 9.   Do you divide equally among all grandchildren? What about those who didn't?  

    There are plenty of ways to look at it but I can see why you would divide among the children and not grandchildren. 
  • The closest generation to the deceased are the ones who inherit money in my family.  When my grandparents died, my parents and their siblings received money, not the grandkids.  
    Im one of four, and my brother isn’t having children.  Our parents’ will has everything going four ways evenly.  I really think it’s the fairest, most cut and dry way.  Of course, carrying out a will when someone is deceased is very different than a living person having lots of money.  But if I were LW I’d split it among the four children (assuming she doesn’t want to hold any of it for herself as emergency money or to go on a fabulous vacation).
  • Side note: my nana has told us that she is likely going to give my cousin and I inheritance when she passes because my dad passed away and she didn't find it fair to give to me and my aunt {her daughter}.

    Also, given the fact there is just me my mum has a clause in her will. If something happens to me, it automatically goes to my child {into a trust if the child is under 18}.

    If I don't have kids and something happens to me, one of her brothers {the one who doesn't need it} would get the money BUT he is to donate it to a charity of her choosing.

    That way no one fights over it.
  • It is our damn money, and we get to decide who gets it. :D
    httpiimgurcomTCCjW0wjpg
  • kaos16 said:

    and/also. . . . why do people always think they're entitled to something?  I was just having a conversation about this with my sister.  We know people who are already spending, in their minds, money and property they think they are getting from relatives when they die.  A family friend made a comment that he has a daughter who just assumes they'll leave her their house and a son who thinks he's getting property out of state.  Let's just all work with what we have, live within our means and not count on other people's money down the road.

    (Rant over)

    I agree!!!  FIL is obsessed with telling us how much he's leaving us and there were SO MANY conversations before GFIL died about how much everyone was getting (turns out, no one gets anything until GFIL's wife dies). 

    DH and I have discussed what his dad says is coming to us and we're both in the same headspace of the fact that we have no idea what is or is not coming down the pike and we don't really want to think about the money until it's in hand.  It's classless, IMO, to basically hope for someone's death so that you can get a windfall of cash or property. 
  • CMGragain said:
    It is our damn money, and we get to decide who gets it. :D
    This is what I think. I think the LW should have just split the money how she wanted and not taken opinions.

    That said, I don't think it's out of line or unfair to give some to grandchildren even if one child doesn't have children. Presumably, these children aren't being given a sum that their parents can spend as they please, therefore de facto giving more money to the parents. Or am I wrong to think that? The money would only help the grandkids. 

    Say, if my grandparents died and gave me money, that money would go toward a house or our business. It doesn't get used by my parents at all and wouldn't really affect them except that they'd get a bit less. 
  • I think it is best to just divide up by the kids and they can decide how it goes to the grandchildren, especially if they are minors anyway. Along those line's H's step mom wanted to give stock to each grandkid and they've been trying to decide the best way. They went back and forth on whether it would just be givin to the kids who could then give/divide amongst grandkids or give directly to grandkids. They decided to give directly to each grandkid which means we will get less since we are just having 1 and the others plan for more (1 is pregnant with the 2nd). But never would I complain or act like it is unfair. As it turns out the bio kids will get more than the step side of the family (us) which is fine.
  • It's always sad to see families getting in an uproar over an inheritance or monies/assets being divvied up by parents/grandparents as they age.  And there can be a lot of rational factors involved in what some could perceive as being in equitable, ie @kaos16's story.

    I completely agree with what the LW ended up doing.  Just split the money she is giving out between her four children.  That is one "level" of the family tree.  And yeah, Child B was a bit b.s. with that request.  If Child B or any of the other siblings with children want to give some of their portion to their kids then great!  Do it.  But no, it's not fair that some families would have gotten larger portions then others.  Just because they had some or the most kids.

    I'm not proud of it, but I have a bit of an issue with this with my own mom.  My sister has two children and is a SAHM, who also only lives about one hour from our mom.  I have no kids and work f/t, p/t, and have 6 rental units.  And live 1500+ miles away.  Yes, I have more money than my sister's family.  Because I work my BUTT off for it.  I know my mom spends TONS of money every year on my sister's family.  Probably in the thousands/year between treating them to dinners, events, grandkid gifts for both special events and impulse purchases.  I certainly don't care or expect for things to be even-steven, but the inequity is so far off that I can't help but be hurt by it in my heart of hearts.  And, quite frankly, it started way back when my sister and I were teenagers.

    She's talked about her will and final wishes a couple times with me.  She's told me that, with a few exceptions for her husband (my stepfather), her estate and assets are being split evenly between myself and my sister.  However, I suspect when the time comes, there are going to be some unfair pieces in it.  I dread, at a time of deep grief, that it is going to be the last and final hurt dished out to me, by a mother who has always given so much more to the daughter that supposedly "needs more help".  Pfft, I could go on for another 20 paragraphs on that subject.  I will spare you all my further melancholy on the subject.  Sorry to bring the room down!

    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • kaos16 said:

    and/also. . . . why do people always think they're entitled to something?  I was just having a conversation about this with my sister.  We know people who are already spending, in their minds, money and property they think they are getting from relatives when they die.  A family friend made a comment that he has a daughter who just assumes they'll leave her their house and a son who thinks he's getting property out of state.  Let's just all work with what we have, live within our means and not count on other people's money down the road.

    (Rant over)

    This is exactly what I was thinking. I mean, I'm pretty sure my parents will leave us all something, but aside from one specific art piece that's been *specifically stated* they'll leave to me, I don't expect a damn thing. Let them spend all their money on themselves, if they want. It's not mine just because they birthed me. 
    image
  • It's always sad to see families getting in an uproar over an inheritance or monies/assets being divvied up by parents/grandparents as they age.  And there can be a lot of rational factors involved in what some could perceive as being in equitable, ie @kaos16's story.

    I completely agree with what the LW ended up doing.  Just split the money she is giving out between her four children.  That is one "level" of the family tree.  And yeah, Child B was a bit b.s. with that request.  If Child B or any of the other siblings with children want to give some of their portion to their kids then great!  Do it.  But no, it's not fair that some families would have gotten larger portions then others.  Just because they had some or the most kids.

    I'm not proud of it, but I have a bit of an issue with this with my own mom.  My sister has two children and is a SAHM, who also only lives about one hour from our mom.  I have no kids and work f/t, p/t, and have 6 rental units.  And live 1500+ miles away.  Yes, I have more money than my sister's family.  Because I work my BUTT off for it.  I know my mom spends TONS of money every year on my sister's family.  Probably in the thousands/year between treating them to dinners, events, grandkid gifts for both special events and impulse purchases.  I certainly don't care or expect for things to be even-steven, but the inequity is so far off that I can't help but be hurt by it in my heart of hearts.  And, quite frankly, it started way back when my sister and I were teenagers.

    She's talked about her will and final wishes a couple times with me.  She's told me that, with a few exceptions for her husband (my stepfather), her estate and assets are being split evenly between myself and my sister.  However, I suspect when the time comes, there are going to be some unfair pieces in it.  I dread, at a time of deep grief, that it is going to be the last and final hurt dished out to me, by a mother who has always given so much more to the daughter that supposedly "needs more help".  Pfft, I could go on for another 20 paragraphs on that subject.  I will spare you all my further melancholy on the subject.  Sorry to bring the room down!

    I'm sorry @short+sassy .   It's not fair when you watch the inequity.

    My mom is really aware of this and tries hard to make sure that my brother doesn't feel like he's getting less.   I'm married with kids and work.   Bro works and doesn't have kids (and probably won't unless he and his partner opt to adopt).   It wouldn't be fair to think that I get more because I procreated.  

  • edited November 2017
    Inheritances. Such a source of drama and division, even in the most reasonable families. I'm with @kaos16, idk why people think they're entitled to ANYTHING (even a vase they like). Like, unless someone said "you shall get XYZ when I die", there's no reason to think anything is coming your way. And even if someone does say that, promises are not a valid currency.

    Personally, if we inherit any money from my folks or H's folks, I'm not telling babybelle and futurebelle. And I'm not telling them about our own wealth either. What for? So they can start getting excited about my death? So they can start fantasizing about money that doesn't belong to them? They can be pleasantly surprised when I die and that's that. ETA: Plus what better way to get really good senior care than to keep your kids on their toes about who's getting what? LOL :D

    Anyway, I think LW did the right thing dividing it 4 ways. Of course the people with more kids are going to try and find a way to benefit more. But you know what? They can take their 25% and give their kids as much or as little as they want. That ball is in their court.
    *********************************************************************************

    image
  • Divide amongst the kids and they can do with it from there. The whole adding a grandkid element is odd and does seem money grabby. 

    My parents are currently cruising in Europe for their 50th anniversary.  The subject line of the itinerary email was "We'll be off spending your inheritance"  and damn straight they should!!  That money was money that THEY worked for.  It was not handed down from anyone else.  They paid for my schooling and help with all sorts of things to this day. 

    There will be much drama when my fil and sMil pass. TLDR: lots of money, lots of kids. 

    sMIL had 3 biological kids.  One of her children died a few years ago.  She had 2 kids.  FIL has 2 kids.  sMIL and FIL have worked their asses off and made some really big business deals over the years.  I'm not sure the entire net worth, but it's a lot. A lot.

    Over the years every kid has borrowed money from them.  They have bought houses and business and cars for other kids.  We borrowed money when we were moving until the old house sold. The old house sold a month after we moved so we immediately paid it back.  FIL has tracked all of this and their will states what all should be deducted from the final amounts.  I know people will be pissed and their will be drama.

    DH and sMIL's son used to be co-executors until step brother showed his douche ass and FIL changed it to only DH. 

    Right now the will has a split amongst the 5 kids with the portion of the one child being split between her surviving kids.  That split minus the borrowed money.  It seems fair,  but I KNOW there will be drama.  The ousted co-executor will be PISSED (he doesn't know he was ousted). They are all going to be pissed about the deduction for unpaid loans.  I can guarantee DH's brother is also going to throw a fit and brother's wife will throw a bigger fit. 

    I'm not 100% certain, but I also think FIL has set up a college fund for our kids.  This will also cause drama.  FIL and sMIL did pay for the grown grandkids college.  Except the ones that didn't go.  The two that haven't gone are BIL's kids so he and his wife will be butthurt about that. 

  • 6fsn said:

    FIL has tracked all of this and their will states what all should be deducted from the final amounts.  I know people will be pissed and their will be drama.

    Good for your FIL!! A loan is not a gift. It's a loan. The purpose of which is to pay it back. The recipients should feel fortunate he's not deducting interest too. I would!

    Your brothers-/sisters-in-law sound suuuper entitled. Like, work for your own and consider yourself blessed if you get enough money to go to Taco Bell, because you sure ain't earned it.

    If babybelle and futurebelle act like that or even let on that they think they're owed something after all we are going to do for them (cars, college, housing, opportunities, etc.), I will donate it all to charity. No question.
    *********************************************************************************

    image
  • Want to hear a messed up inheritance/money story? My Dad changed the beneficiary on all his life insurance and investment accounts that my Mom is not on (they have some separate accounts/investments) to me and my sister, removing my mom as benificary. He just told us this and we don’t know what to do because he didn’t tell Mom and asked us not to tell her. 
  • @6fsn, unfortunately, I have heard a lot of scenarios like that.  Someone's portion in the will is smaller because they were given X money that others didn't receive.  Which sounds perfectly reasonable and understandable to me.  But then it seems like the "borrowers" always get upset about it.  Heck, a free "loan" with no interest...that never needs to be paid back out of a person's own money...sounds like a sweet deal to begin with.  Yet then people complain about it.

    On a different subject, but same idea.  I had a former coworker who was really upset that she didn't get more money back after she sold her house.  She was complaining about it and sharing the numbers with me.  And then she said something like, "If it wasn't for that Home Equity Line of Credit balance ($50K), it wouldn't have been so bad."  I know exactly what a HELOC is.  Wait, what?  I gently pointed out to her that the HELOC $50K balance WAS part of her profit.  She just already spent it while she owned the house.  Her response, "Well, yeah, I guess.  But I still had to pay it."  Ummm....yes.  Indeed.  That is how it works, lol.

    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • Want to hear a messed up inheritance/money story? My Dad changed the beneficiary on all his life insurance and investment accounts that my Mom is not on (they have some separate accounts/investments) to me and my sister, removing my mom as benificary. He just told us this and we don’t know what to do because he didn’t tell Mom and asked us not to tell her. 
    Whoaaaaa.... that is really odd and puts you in a very uncomfortable position. I wonder if he's concerned about something with your mom. Like maybe she has some kind of addiction (gambling, whatever) that they've kept from y'all and he isn't confident in her. Ugh, I'm sorry. That's so awkward.
    *********************************************************************************

    image
  • Want to hear a messed up inheritance/money story? My Dad changed the beneficiary on all his life insurance and investment accounts that my Mom is not on (they have some separate accounts/investments) to me and my sister, removing my mom as benificary. He just told us this and we don’t know what to do because he didn’t tell Mom and asked us not to tell her. 
    Whoaaaaa.... that is really odd and puts you in a very uncomfortable position. I wonder if he's concerned about something with your mom. Like maybe she has some kind of addiction (gambling, whatever) that they've kept from y'all and he isn't confident in her. Ugh, I'm sorry. That's so awkward.
    They just hate each other. TBH I don't even know what they're married to each other besides out of obligation and religious guilt. 

    H thinks the whole thing is insane and we should just tell my Mom, and tell my Dad that we're telling Mom. Which isn't the worst idea in the world.
  • Charlotte - That is messed up.  I think you need to speak with your dad further about this.  Tell him it isn't right for him to keep this secret and that you implore him to tell your mom.
  • @charlotte989875 I wonder if it is even legal to have changed it, or maybe it depends on the type of account. The only reason I even question it is a client just asked me about this yesterday related to company-provided life insurance and the beneficiary document says if the person is married and the spouse is not listed as primary (or is later changed to no longer being primary)  the spouse must consent it to with a notarized signature, otherwise the beneficiary change will not be enforced when the policy pays out. 
  • @short+sassy my H feels the same way as you. He is an only child but his dad remarried after his moms death and moved across the country where she/her kids were. They've been married 17 or 18 years now. H still harbors resentment about it and the fact that since they are local with her kids/grandkids they spend lots of $$ on them from things like random dinners, gifts, furniture, loans, etc that we don't get. They've even brought it up with a birthday or Christmas gift being like "well we do more for the other kids so heres XYZ extra". Even though we don't need the $$ I know it bugs him and I think he's concerned about what happens if his dad dies first (he's older than her). I remind him that a) we don't need the $$, b) I doubt his step mom would stop him from getting an inheritance from his dad, and c) his step mom gets way more in retirement $$ than his dad so they are basically living/traveling off of "her" money but they just consider it their money not "his/hers" so he shouldn't be concerned. 
  • I actually do not see a problem with Child B's suggestion, provided the money would be put into a trust for the kids directly.   Which I think is key.  Putting into the hands of the parents to distribute later I would have a problem with because who knows if the kids will actually get the money.      

    Actually that is what DH's grandma did.  She willed one of her annuities to her grandkids.   All 7 of them got an equal amount (about $2K each).   All other assets were split between MIL and her only sibling.   Not sure how much her assets were, but MIL and her sister still received a considerable amount of money compared to grandkids.
      

    Also there are many ways the OP could have given money to her grandkids if she wanted.   It didn't need to be the 1/5 split.  She could have set aside a  small amount for the grandkids, but then distributed the baulk of the amount to her kids.

    We do not have kids and wouldn't be upset if the grandkids got a direct inheritance from their grandparents.   I think the key word here is DIRECT. I might be miffed if my parents gave my sister more simply because she has the most amount of kids.  

    However, if my parents gave her 3 kids money directly I wouldn't think in terms that "her side" got more money.  All but one of the 7 grandkids are legal adults with the youngest being 16.   The money would be their's, not an extension of my siblings'.






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
Sign In or Register to comment.
Choose Another Board
Search Boards