Wedding Woes

Scary climate change reports means big changes for us

Thanks in advance for reading my novel, lol.  We're a bit overwhelmed at the thought of our major undertaking.

All-righty.  And now for the big news that I am still reeling over and will be for a long time.  My H and I had a lot of discussions this weekend and we decided that it is time we start to plan for pulling out of NOLA.  Not today, not tomorrow, not even next year.  But probably within the next 5 years.  And, for our real estate investing, our next purchases will already be somewhere else.

Long-term climate reports and global warming estimates look bleak.  Very bleak.  Especially for coastal and Gulf Coast cities.  We're worried that, over the next couple decades, people will start moving out of here and it will cause real estate prices to drop.  Possibly even plummet.  As it is, there were around 60,000 who never came back here after Katrina.  I only pray that we're out and have our properties here sold before the next big one hits.  That could be a death blow. 

Right now, we are trying to target where we would want to go.  The main qualification?  It needs to have a great Return on Investment (ROI) for real estate.  Bonus if it doesn't get too cold in the winter, but we'll go where the money is.  Once we decide that, we're going to save longer and shoot for buying a small apartment complex there, in the next year or two.  As opposed to our current strategy of buying local houses and duplexes.

Because of my job, I expect to stay in New Orleans for a few years after that to pay down more mortgage debt.  And start selling our real estate here.  Including our own house :(.  Heck, we might become renters for awhile during this transition period.

My own house, sigh.  I’m sad at the thought of selling it in the next few years and am hoping/expecting that time will lessen that.  I love it.  We put so much love and work into it.  I expected to potentially live there forever.  There were also a couple big upgrades I was really looking forward to doing.  But now, I may as well not bother.  They would really have been more for personal taste than increasing the value.  That makes me a bit sad also.

Some of our rough, very rough without much research yet, front runners for a new area are:

  • Kansas City -- the current favorite.
  • Memphis or Nashville -- though, overall, we're kind of leaning toward getting out of the South all together (my H's personal preference).
  • Ohio has some great towns for ROI and I have a lot of relatives who live there.  But.  Brrr.
  • Rochester, NY -- Also Brrr.  But, man they have some good real estate deals from what I saw over the weekend.
  • Detroit??? -- This is way more my H than me.  I think he's a bit nuts, but he believes Detroit is on an upswing for future economic growth and it is a good time to invest there.  Would love to hear @kimmiinthemitten's opinion on that.  From a real estate board I frequent, there are Detroit investors who make a killing.  But they are local and know the neighborhoods inside and out.  Very key for that area.  They also target lower end rentals, which involves much more "hands-on, boots on the ground" management.  Which wouldn't be us for another few years.  Last, but not least.  Brrr, lol.  

So much to consider and so many decisions to make.  I really just need to calm TF down, because nothing is happening any time soon.  It is just a lot of "AAHHH" right now.

Wedding Countdown Ticker
«134

Re: Scary climate change reports means big changes for us

  • UGH!  That sucks that you have to be thinking about all this, but you are right...it's not getting better and it's not going to get better because people (regular people, politicians, and companies) do not want to change or change quickly.  

    You should consider INDY!!!  Our income to housing ratio is INSANE here.  You could definitely get into the rental market with no problem and fix up houses relatively cheap.   Property taxes are dirt cheap too with a lot of tax breaks. Plus, our job market is on fire.  

    We are right in the 'snow band' area.  In the metro area, we only get really bad winters once every few years.  I don't think we got any snow last year at all (which isn't good since global warming and all that).  Being north of the city gives you a greater chance at snow than being south.  The north central and northern part of the state definitely get hammered with more snow than we do on average.  We are only 1.5 hours from Cincy and Louisville and 3 hours from Chicago.  And we are getting increased air service every year from almost all the airlines. 
  • If you love NOLA why not stay? Keep your primary residence, gradually transition your investments to either property you have professionally managed or the stock market or a REIT. There’s no need to move to where the money is unless you really like doing the work of being a local landlord. 
  • mrsconn23 said:
    UGH!  That sucks that you have to be thinking about all this, but you are right...it's not getting better and it's not going to get better because people (regular people, politicians, and companies) do not want to change or change quickly.  

    You should consider INDY!!!  Our income to housing ratio is INSANE here.  You could definitely get into the rental market with no problem and fix up houses relatively cheap.   Property taxes are dirt cheap too with a lot of tax breaks. Plus, our job market is on fire.  

    We are right in the 'snow band' area.  In the metro area, we only get really bad winters once every few years.  I don't think we got any snow last year at all (which isn't good since global warming and all that).  Being north of the city gives you a greater chance at snow than being south.  The north central and northern part of the state definitely get hammered with more snow than we do on average.  We are only 1.5 hours from Cincy and Louisville and 3 hours from Chicago.  And we are getting increased air service every year from almost all the airlines. 


    Thank you for the suggestion!  Come to think of it, I have heard good things about the ROI in Indy from my REI folks on my other board.  I'll add that to our list of places to consider.  I didn't realize it was so close to other cool cities.

    I especially like the bolded.  My H and I wouldn't want to be dependent on getting a job, wherever we move to.  But it helps the bottom line if we can find decent paying employment, once we arrive.

    In fact, that was one of the other things my H mentioned about Detroit.  He is an IT guy, who can't find squat here.  It's bad for that industry in NOLA.  But apparently he looked at the want ads also and was surprised to see all the opportunities in his field.

    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • Rochester, NYer here. I don't know much about the market since H and I aren't in the market (yet) for a new house but I do know that it's hot. The husband of one of my coworkers is a real estate agent who also flips houses - there's no shortage both in Rochester and the surrounding suburbs. The biggest drawback though is how high our property taxes are. 

    I will say that the winters suck - there's no getting around that. The storms that we get coming off the Great Lakes can be intense and it's snowed as early as October and as late as May. However, it's a lovely area with lots to do year round. 
  • What about Texas?
    image
  • If you love NOLA why not stay? Keep your primary residence, gradually transition your investments to either property you have professionally managed or the stock market or a REIT. There’s no need to move to where the money is unless you really like doing the work of being a local landlord. 


    I made the suggestion that we wouldn't necessarily need to live where our investments are.  But my H prefers the idea of living in the same area where we have our real estate holdings.  It does make things easier.  Though, he might change his mind once we've owned an apartment complex using a property management team.

    The other big consideration is that our personal home is...by far...our most valuable real estate asset.  As much as I hate the idea, it is the main one I would want to sell before the bottom potentially drops out of the NOLA market.

    And once we sell our personal home, I'm not that concerned about staying in NOLA and might as well move somewhere else anyway.  It's a cool city with a lot to do, but there are a lot of negatives too.  We like it here, but we don't love it anymore.

    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • @cupcait927, thanks for the input about high property taxes in Rochester and how the weather is.  Hard expenses, like property taxes, area always something to consider for net cash flow!

    @NOLABridesmaid, my impression of TX is that it is a decent place for real estate ROI, but it's only okay.  I've also heard the property taxes are high and a real drain on net cash flow.  On my REI board, the investors in TX always joke and refer to it as Taxes.

    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • Rochester gets DAMN cold.  I know nothing about their real estate.  I just know the 8 months I stayed there it never really got to where I'd consider swimming.

    Central Ohio isn't bad.  We have a lot of jobs in oodles of fields.  It's pretty stable on the job front.  Real estate is all over here. 

  • Well, you're smart for not listing Illinois in there. LOL.  man do I want to leave my effed up state!

    Rochester will be cooooold.  I have a friend who lives there and sends her blizzard pics to me all the time. Nashville has always been a dream of mine, but I don't know about real estate there.  

  • Well, you're smart for not listing Illinois in there. LOL.  man do I want to leave my effed up state!

    Rochester will be cooooold.  I have a friend who lives there and sends her blizzard pics to me all the time. Nashville has always been a dream of mine, but I don't know about real estate there.  

    I saw a few apartment building listings for Chicago over the weekend and was surprised at how cheap they were and with an amazing ROI.  And then I remembered that Chicago has some seriously scary and sketch neighborhoods.  Oh, I'd bet that is where they are, lol.

    I think you all have talked me out of Rochester, lol.  It's one thing to move somewhere colder.  As in, some snow on the ground, here and there over the winter.  As opposed to snow on the ground, all winter long, and blizzards.  And not the "good" Dairy Queen kind, lol.

    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • edited November 2017
    Yes, taxes are high, but property prices are lower. I guess you would have to do the math.
    image
  • Well, you're smart for not listing Illinois in there. LOL.  man do I want to leave my effed up state!

    Rochester will be cooooold.  I have a friend who lives there and sends her blizzard pics to me all the time. Nashville has always been a dream of mine, but I don't know about real estate there.  

    I saw a few apartment building listings for Chicago over the weekend and was surprised at how cheap they were and with an amazing ROI.  And then I remembered that Chicago has some seriously scary and sketch neighborhoods.  Oh, I'd bet that is where they are, lol.

    I think you all have talked me out of Rochester, lol.  It's one thing to move somewhere colder.  As in, some snow on the ground, here and there over the winter.  As opposed to snow on the ground, all winter long, and blizzards.  And not the "good" Dairy Queen kind, lol.

    don't forget the scary and sketchy political people!

  • This is another piece that is causing a bit of "alternate reality" for me.  Overall, the best opportunities are in the Midwest.  I just never pictured myself living there and/or places where it snows.  Nothing against the Midwest, just never a reason before now to see myself there.  So I'm trying to start my "mind shift", lol.
    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • Well, you're smart for not listing Illinois in there. LOL.  man do I want to leave my effed up state!

    Rochester will be cooooold.  I have a friend who lives there and sends her blizzard pics to me all the time. Nashville has always been a dream of mine, but I don't know about real estate there.  

    I saw a few apartment building listings for Chicago over the weekend and was surprised at how cheap they were and with an amazing ROI.  And then I remembered that Chicago has some seriously scary and sketch neighborhoods.  Oh, I'd bet that is where they are, lol.

    I think you all have talked me out of Rochester, lol.  It's one thing to move somewhere colder.  As in, some snow on the ground, here and there over the winter.  As opposed to snow on the ground, all winter long, and blizzards.  And not the "good" Dairy Queen kind, lol.

    don't forget the scary and sketchy political people!

    That would just make me feel right at home, lol.

    An old New Orleans adage, "We like our politicians the way we like our rice...dirty."

    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • This is another piece that is causing a bit of "alternate reality" for me.  Overall, the best opportunities are in the Midwest.  I just never pictured myself living there and/or places where it snows.  Nothing against the Midwest, just never a reason before now to see myself there.  So I'm trying to start my "mind shift", lol.
    every year that I go to Massachusetts I always tell DH to get transferred near Boston. i could see myself living there.  But we both have really good jobs here and he's moving to a place that could make it "work for us" since his yard is 3 hours away from Chicago!

    So then I say "well, at least we can visit?" 

    But visiting isn't living.  The Midwest is "ok", but I could leave it. lol.

  • Rochester, NYer here. I don't know much about the market since H and I aren't in the market (yet) for a new house but I do know that it's hot. The husband of one of my coworkers is a real estate agent who also flips houses - there's no shortage both in Rochester and the surrounding suburbs. The biggest drawback though is how high our property taxes are. 

    I will say that the winters suck - there's no getting around that. The storms that we get coming off the Great Lakes can be intense and it's snowed as early as October and as late as May. However, it's a lovely area with lots to do year round. 
    Buffalo, NYer (again, yay!) and things are pretty similar here; and there's a ton of reinvestment in the city so lots of growth, lots of potential, and lots of great people. 

    If you're used to the south and the west then the winters probably will be a bit of a shock. But we have hot toddies, sledding, and hockey, which make the cold and the snow manageable. 
  • short+sassyshort+sassy member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    edited November 2017
    This is another piece that is causing a bit of "alternate reality" for me.  Overall, the best opportunities are in the Midwest.  I just never pictured myself living there and/or places where it snows.  Nothing against the Midwest, just never a reason before now to see myself there.  So I'm trying to start my "mind shift", lol.
    every year that I go to Massachusetts I always tell DH to get transferred near Boston. i could see myself living there.  But we both have really good jobs here and he's moving to a place that could make it "work for us" since his yard is 3 hours away from Chicago!

    So then I say "well, at least we can visit?" 

    But visiting isn't living.  The Midwest is "ok", but I could leave it. lol.


    I feel like we could be happy living almost anywhere.  We're pretty easy going, flexible people.  I hope that isn't just wishful thinking.  With that said, we both don't like the cold.  And I am a serious city girl.  I could probably get away with living outside a medium/major city, but would prefer to be within an hour of one.

    We've talked about wanting a vacation home in Tahoe someday.  So the discussion even turned to a f/t move to Tahoe.  ROI only mediocre, so there is that.  But I envisioned it.  At first I was picturing the beautiful scenery that would greet me every day.  Aaahhh, heaven.

    And then my thoughts turned to the town.  Which is actually pretty small.  The ONE main strip.  With its restaurants of overpriced, mediocre tourist food.  Every day.  Year round.  And claustrophobia starts to set in, lol.

    Edited to add:

    You notice how I make exceptions for Tahoe, in terms of snow, lol?  Because it is just that awesome.  At least scenery-wise.  I've also been fortunate to only have been there during gorgeous, picture-perfect winter days.  Where the skies are blue, the sun is shining, chilly but not cold, and the snow is sparkling on the ground.

    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • I wouldn't move to MO.  Our legislature is tearing the state apart and I can't even begin to tell you the hows/whys of it.  It's not in support of business or of it's citizens...it mainly seems to be in support of hard right Republicans.
  • VarunaTT said:
    I wouldn't move to MO.  Our legislature is tearing the state apart and I can't even begin to tell you the hows/whys of it.  It's not in support of business or of it's citizens...it mainly seems to be in support of hard right Republicans.


    Thanks for that!  A city's "vibe" is something that is hard to get a feel for, without living there.

    A funny aside.  I had mentioned to my H that a "plus" of Kansas City is, even though it will be colder than where we live, it's still not too far north and I thought it only snowed here and there.

    His response was literally, "Yeah, but its flatlands.  Where the winds coming sweeping down the plains!"  (Line from a song in Oklahoma, the musical)

    Me:  That's Oklahoma.

    Him:  Yeah.  Them too.

    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • Well, if it makes you feel better, KC is cold as hell.  There's lots of times there's  20 degree difference between KC and where I live on the more southern side of the state.  This last year they also had some issues w/flooding for the first time in a long time.

    KC is alright.  It's a big driving city (same size as NYC, with something like 1/10 the population) and has one of the highest numbers of 4 lane boulevards in the nation, but they still have the Grandview Triangle, though they keep doing construction trying to fix that bottleneck (it is a lot better than it was in the early 2000s, but it's still a bottleneck of sots).  I prefer StL's vibe and culture, but StL has it's own issues.  That city is a simmering pot of racial discrimination and inequity.  Also, our legislature is starting to make noises about overturning city decided protections and decisions such as LGTBQ+ protections and minimum wage increases (they actually did overturn StL on that).  It's a bunch of bullshit and they're going to start driving people and then businesses out on the high holy altar of abortion, guns, and religion.
  • VarunaTT said:
    Well, if it makes you feel better, KC is cold as hell.  There's lots of times there's  20 degree difference between KC and where I live on the more southern side of the state.  This last year they also had some issues w/flooding for the first time in a long time.

    KC is alright.  It's a big driving city (same size as NYC, with something like 1/10 the population) and has one of the highest numbers of 4 lane boulevards in the nation, but they still have the Grandview Triangle, though they keep doing construction trying to fix that bottleneck (it is a lot better than it was in the early 2000s, but it's still a bottleneck of sots).  I prefer StL's vibe and culture, but StL has it's own issues.  That city is a simmering pot of racial discrimination and inequity.  Also, our legislature is starting to make noises about overturning city decided protections and decisions such as LGTBQ+ protections and minimum wage increases (they actually did overturn StL on that).  It's a bunch of bullshit and they're going to start driving people and then businesses out on the high holy altar of abortion, guns, and religion.

    That's interesting, though unfortunate, to hear.  I realize you are talking about StL and not necessarily KC.  But I was hoping a silver lining from moving out of NOLA is going somewhere that doesn't have gross disparities in income, a high poverty level, and high crime.

    Crime is one of the reasons Memphis is on the lower end of my list.

    NOLA is very blue, but the rest of the state (including the surrounding suburbs) is very red.  We have a lot of your last sentence going on.  Though its better since Jindal is no longer our governor.  He was one of "those governors" that was immediately trying to find "loopholes" after the SCOTUS decision on same sex marriage.  And got smacked down by multiple Federal judges in the state.

    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • I would plug my very own Southern part of Jersey, but our taxes are crazy.  We have the most expensive car insurance.  The bonus is that we can generally drive an hour and a half and arrive in either the mountains or the ocean.  It's the one big thing we have going for us!

    The cost of living is lower in South Jersey than in North Jersey, but we get treated like crap by the government because the highest population is in North Jersey, so generally North Jerseans get elected governor.

    It can be cold, but we don't usually get fully snowed in winters.

    Have you looked into Delaware? 

  • I would plug my very own Southern part of Jersey, but our taxes are crazy.  We have the most expensive car insurance.  The bonus is that we can generally drive an hour and a half and arrive in either the mountains or the ocean.  It's the one big thing we have going for us!

    The cost of living is lower in South Jersey than in North Jersey, but we get treated like crap by the government because the highest population is in North Jersey, so generally North Jerseans get elected governor.

    It can be cold, but we don't usually get fully snowed in winters.

    Have you looked into Delaware? 

    Where I grew up in CA was like that!  Well, the beach was even better.  A 10-minute walk, lol.  But the mountains were only 2 hours away also.  Being relatively close to great stuff is always nice!

    I don't even know what cheap car insurance is, lol.  It was super high in CA and it is super high in NOLA.  Here, we have a higher than average number of uninsured motorists that drives the cost way up.

    I haven't looked into Jersey or Delaware.  I'd kind of suspect North Jersey, at least within commuting distance to NYC, would be way too much for properties as compared to rents*.  But I'll check out South Jersey and Delaware, since you think they might be good targets.

    *Contrary to popular belief, usually the worst places to buy properties for cash flow are the ones with the highest rents.  Because the cost of the property is exponentially even higher.  ***cough...NYC, LA, San Fran, and Seattle...cough***

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    I threw together my tentative list, primarily from general "chitter chatter" I've heard over the last couple years of "best places to invest" from the REI forum I frequent.

    That, and there is a website called LoopNet that focuses on just commercial properties.  My H and I were playing around on it over the weekend.  Did a nationwide search for multi-family properties under $1M.  Sorted it with highest cap rate (similar to an ROI).  And boom!  A glance at some of the hottest ROI markets in the country.  Which isn't necessarily everything, but it's a good place to start.  I kept seeing properties in Rochester, which is how that city got on my list.

    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • edited November 2017
    That's both scary and exciting!

    Obvs I will plug metro-Detroit before Ohio, because, I mean it's Ohio;).

    I can't speak for the ROI for properties in this area, but when the big recession hit there are quite a few cool areas that resisted the blow.  Plus, downtown is coming back in a major way and most of the cool places to live are easily within 20-30 minutes of Detroit.  What I can tell you is our real estate market is hot.  Good homes are sold within days, not weeks.  And people are friendly and helpful.  I often say the South may be more polite, but the Midwest is friendly.  It won't be hard to find people who can help steer you to cool areas.

    The pros:  Detroit has legit cool people and a sense of pride you truly don't get in other cities.  Detroit rooted just as hard for the Astro's as Houston did because of Verlander, you don't find that type of love elsewhere.  Plus, we're a legit foodie destination.  Dan Gilbert (Quicken Loans and Cleveland Cavaliers owner) has bought most of the abandoned properties downtown and is currently renovating them.  We're out of parking spaces downtown!

    The cons:  We're still in a serious growth spurt and our future isn't entirely sure.  The trickle down hasn't impacted Detroit neighborhoods, and in may ways we're still a region divided, especially by politics and race.  We do get cold weather, but not Northern amounts of snow.  We're a one trick pony city; we rise and fall with the automotive industry and literally nothing else.  

    I'd keep a big eye on where Amazon moves.  There's speculation it could be a city like Detroit that's experiencing a resurgence.  There's speculation it will be someplace more established as a destination town.






    image
  • ernursej said:
    Canada ....


    But super Brrr...  We were at -17C this past weekend.  :D 

  • Just gonna throw my hometown in the ring.... because nobody ever thinks of it but it has a lot of pluses, and if things haven’t changed too much, I think real estate is one of them. Omaha.
  • That's both scary and exciting!

    Obvs I will plug metro-Detroit before Ohio, because, I mean it's Ohio;).





    Agreed. Detroit is way cooler than Ohio. 
  • I’m NOT going to make a bid for NYC and it’s suburbs.  H and I are staying since our lives (extended family/careers) are here, but I wouldn’t recommend it if you don’t have ties.  The pro is we’re less than an hour from the ocean one way and less than an hour from Broadway plays the other, with lots to do in between.  The con is it’s expensive, and the taxes are high.  I imagine it’d be a tough place to own multiple properties.  It’s also getting very difficult to compete against foreign buyers, many of whom pay all cash.  My sister and BIL (combined income around $350,000) have been trying to buy a home in a certain town for almost a year and keep getting edged out by buyers with $1-2 million in cash.  It’s very tricky.

    Youre so smart to think long term as far as climate change.  We’ve talked a bit about moving inland.  I know you said no cold winters, but my parents’ second home is in NH- it’s a lovely state, along with VT.  I’m sorry to hear about pouring all of that love and work into your house only to be leaving it!
Sign In or Register to comment.
Choose Another Board
Search Boards