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It's the vegan version of the wifi cabin issue

Dear Prudence,

I’m a vegan. I try not to be preachy about it and only bring it up if someone asks. But I do have a firm rule about not having meat in my home. I live alone in a small place and don’t entertain often, so this is quite easy. Recently, my mother and her husband came to visit. He brought a rotisserie chicken. I said, “Finish your lunch, it’s fine, but just to let you know: This is a meat-free home.” He acted as though I was being unreasonable and went to eat his lunch in the park down the street, as if I had thrown him out. (I live in the Southern Hemisphere, so it is the middle of winter.) He is now refusing to ever visit again and doesn’t want me to come to their house because “there’s meat in it.” My mother admits that he is being unreasonable but thinks I should apologize to him “for the sake of peace.” Am I being unreasonable in setting this rule for my home? Should I apologize to him, even though it would be entirely for my mother’s sake?

—Chicken and Egg

Re: It's the vegan version of the wifi cabin issue

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    mrsconn23mrsconn23 member
    First Anniversary First Answer 5 Love Its First Comment
    edited July 2018
    banana468 said:


    Frankly what I have to wonder is did mom and step father know this in advance?  I would not show up with meat to a vegetarian/vegan's home any more than I'd show up with a bottle of wine if invited to a Mormon's for dinner.   So if all of this was known in advance and step father opted to show up with a chicken carcass it makes me think he's a HUGE asshole.   
    Yeah, that's where the question lies.  If LW made it clear to mom and/or stepdad showed up with the chicken regardless, then total asshole behavior. If only mom knew and allowed for this, then mom owes both LW and her H an apology. 

    If this rule was not made clear, then LW obviously needs to make guests aware to avoid these situations in the future.  The only reason I think it may not be known is that LW mentions in the letter that her home is small and people don't come over. 

    Stepdad was an ass for stomping off to the park to eat.  But also, I think being all, "I'll allow you to finish your lunch, but this is a meat-free home," if stepdad was truly unaware of LW's beliefs and rules for her home just comes off as condescending IMO.  A better approach would have been to let him eat without saying anything and then bringing it up after her guests had settled in.  
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    "Mom, you are admitting he is being unreasonable.  I will not apologize when even YOU think he is being unreasonable.  The only thing I am sorry about is not informing Gerald of my no meat rule prior to your arrival."


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    mrsconn23 said:
    banana468 said:


    Frankly what I have to wonder is did mom and step father know this in advance?  I would not show up with meat to a vegetarian/vegan's home any more than I'd show up with a bottle of wine if invited to a Mormon's for dinner.   So if all of this was known in advance and step father opted to show up with a chicken carcass it makes me think he's a HUGE asshole.   
    Yeah, that's where the question lies.  If LW made it clear to mom and/or stepdad showed up with the chicken regardless, then total asshole behavior. If only mom knew and allowed for this, then mom owes both LW and her H an apology. 

    If this rule was not made clear, then LW obviously needs to make guests aware to avoid these situations in the future.  The only reason I think it may not be known is that LW mentions in the letter that her home is small and people don't come over. 

    Stepdad was an ass for stomping off to the park to eat.  But also, I think being all, "I'll allow you to finish your lunch, but this is a meat-free home," if stepdad was truly unaware of LW's beliefs and rules for her home just comes off as condescending IMO.  A better approach would have been to let him eat without saying anything and then bringing it up after her guests had settled in.  
    My opinion on LW's comment at face value is that she's in the clear.  I think this sort of thing can be dicey but I think saying that it was fine to eat what he brought in seemed OK on the surface  - but of course we don't know tone.
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    mrsconn23 said:
    banana468 said:


    Frankly what I have to wonder is did mom and step father know this in advance?  I would not show up with meat to a vegetarian/vegan's home any more than I'd show up with a bottle of wine if invited to a Mormon's for dinner.   So if all of this was known in advance and step father opted to show up with a chicken carcass it makes me think he's a HUGE asshole.   
    Yeah, that's where the question lies.  If LW made it clear to mom and/or stepdad showed up with the chicken regardless, then total asshole behavior. If only mom knew and allowed for this, then mom owes both LW and her H an apology. 

    If this rule was not made clear, then LW obviously needs to make guests aware to avoid these situations in the future.  The only reason I think it may not be known is that LW mentions in the letter that her home is small and people don't come over. 

    Stepdad was an ass for stomping off to the park to eat.  But also, I think being all, "I'll allow you to finish your lunch, but this is a meat-free home," if stepdad was truly unaware of LW's beliefs and rules for her home just comes off as condescending IMO.  A better approach would have been to let him eat without saying anything and then bringing it up after her guests had settled in.  
    This.

    Assuming Stepdad had no idea she didn't allow meat in her house, period, not even for guests, I would have probably left to eat my lunch elsewhere too, given what she said.  I would have felt uncomfortable finishing my meal in her home, but I would have wanted to eat it.

    He's being extreme in his response if he means he will never visit her again- don't stay in her home, but you can get a hotel and then go over to visit with her and then go to a restaurant for meals.

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


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    banana468 said:
    C&E's step father is an ass and mom is asking for an apology because she doesn't want to tell him so.   The larger issue here IMO is the continued notion of "You upset the man so you need to apologize to him and then life can go back to that good state before you dared to tell a man that he can't do what he wants wherever he wants." 

    I'd be clear with my mom that the person owed the apology is C&E and it's a shame that mom feels the other way around.  I'd also say that I have no grudge to hold and would happily visit mom in her house but no, I'm not going to apologize for clarifying house rules.  Sorry not sorry. 

    This is slightly different than the wifi IMO.   This isn't cutting people off from all food - just those that involve animals.  

    Frankly what I have to wonder is did mom and step father know this in advance?  I would not show up with meat to a vegetarian/vegan's home any more than I'd show up with a bottle of wine if invited to a Mormon's for dinner.   So if all of this was known in advance and step father opted to show up with a chicken carcass it makes me think he's a HUGE asshole.   The only equivalent would be to show up at the wifi home with some kind of signal boosting equipment in your car to ensure that you can keep streaming Kimmy Schmidt.
    I would not show up with a meal to eat just for me ever. So rude. 
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    mrsconn23mrsconn23 member
    First Anniversary First Answer 5 Love Its First Comment
    edited July 2018
    banana468 said:
    C&E's step father is an ass and mom is asking for an apology because she doesn't want to tell him so.   The larger issue here IMO is the continued notion of "You upset the man so you need to apologize to him and then life can go back to that good state before you dared to tell a man that he can't do what he wants wherever he wants." 

    I'd be clear with my mom that the person owed the apology is C&E and it's a shame that mom feels the other way around.  I'd also say that I have no grudge to hold and would happily visit mom in her house but no, I'm not going to apologize for clarifying house rules.  Sorry not sorry. 

    This is slightly different than the wifi IMO.   This isn't cutting people off from all food - just those that involve animals.  

    Frankly what I have to wonder is did mom and step father know this in advance?  I would not show up with meat to a vegetarian/vegan's home any more than I'd show up with a bottle of wine if invited to a Mormon's for dinner.   So if all of this was known in advance and step father opted to show up with a chicken carcass it makes me think he's a HUGE asshole.   The only equivalent would be to show up at the wifi home with some kind of signal boosting equipment in your car to ensure that you can keep streaming Kimmy Schmidt.
    I would not show up with a meal to eat just for me ever. So rude. 
    I've done it before, with family.  But only after asking if they wanted something as well and they declined me picking something up for them.  

    But also, a whole rotisserie chicken is a meal for my family (along with sides).  So maybe he showed up with the intent of offering it to LW?   But then, wouldn't mom be aware?  I mean, I don't go over everything with my mom, but she has a general idea of what is and is not acceptable to me (more talking about with my kids than anything else). 

    Again, I have a lot of questions about how this went down and who knew what about LW's diet and rules for their home.  My clues about communication from LW is that they don't want to be seen as 'preachy' and like I said above, alluded to not having guests often so 'it's not normally an issue'.
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    mrsconn23 said:
    banana468 said:
    C&E's step father is an ass and mom is asking for an apology because she doesn't want to tell him so.   The larger issue here IMO is the continued notion of "You upset the man so you need to apologize to him and then life can go back to that good state before you dared to tell a man that he can't do what he wants wherever he wants." 

    I'd be clear with my mom that the person owed the apology is C&E and it's a shame that mom feels the other way around.  I'd also say that I have no grudge to hold and would happily visit mom in her house but no, I'm not going to apologize for clarifying house rules.  Sorry not sorry. 

    This is slightly different than the wifi IMO.   This isn't cutting people off from all food - just those that involve animals.  

    Frankly what I have to wonder is did mom and step father know this in advance?  I would not show up with meat to a vegetarian/vegan's home any more than I'd show up with a bottle of wine if invited to a Mormon's for dinner.   So if all of this was known in advance and step father opted to show up with a chicken carcass it makes me think he's a HUGE asshole.   The only equivalent would be to show up at the wifi home with some kind of signal boosting equipment in your car to ensure that you can keep streaming Kimmy Schmidt.
    I would not show up with a meal to eat just for me ever. So rude. 
    I've done it before, with family.  But only after asking if they wanted something as well and they declined me picking something up for them.  

    But also, a whole rotisserie chicken is a meal for my family (along with sides).  So maybe he showed up with the intent of offering it to LW?   But then, wouldn't mom be aware?  I mean, I don't go over everything with my mom, but she has a general idea of what is and is not acceptable to me (more talking about with my kids than anything else). 

    Again, I have a lot of questions about how this went down and who knew what about LW's diet and rules for their home.  My clues about communication from LW is that they don't want to be seen as 'preachy' and like I said above, alluded to not having guests often so 'it's not an issue'.
    All of what you said @mrsconn23.

    I would only consider showing up with my own food if it was something like, "We're starving and grabbed lunch on our road trip," and even then you're right - it would be a 'Hey do you mind if I eat this?" 

    In my head I've painted stepfather to be this brute jerk of a dude who has zero social skills and yet somehow he made it to his age never being wrong.


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    mrsconn23 said:
    banana468 said:
    C&E's step father is an ass and mom is asking for an apology because she doesn't want to tell him so.   The larger issue here IMO is the continued notion of "You upset the man so you need to apologize to him and then life can go back to that good state before you dared to tell a man that he can't do what he wants wherever he wants." 

    I'd be clear with my mom that the person owed the apology is C&E and it's a shame that mom feels the other way around.  I'd also say that I have no grudge to hold and would happily visit mom in her house but no, I'm not going to apologize for clarifying house rules.  Sorry not sorry. 

    This is slightly different than the wifi IMO.   This isn't cutting people off from all food - just those that involve animals.  

    Frankly what I have to wonder is did mom and step father know this in advance?  I would not show up with meat to a vegetarian/vegan's home any more than I'd show up with a bottle of wine if invited to a Mormon's for dinner.   So if all of this was known in advance and step father opted to show up with a chicken carcass it makes me think he's a HUGE asshole.   The only equivalent would be to show up at the wifi home with some kind of signal boosting equipment in your car to ensure that you can keep streaming Kimmy Schmidt.
    I would not show up with a meal to eat just for me ever. So rude. 
    I've done it before, with family.  But only after asking if they wanted something as well and they declined me picking something up for them.  

    But also, a whole rotisserie chicken is a meal for my family (along with sides).  So maybe he showed up with the intent of offering it to LW?   But then, wouldn't mom be aware?  I mean, I don't go over everything with my mom, but she has a general idea of what is and is not acceptable to me (more talking about with my kids than anything else). 

    Again, I have a lot of questions about how this went down and who knew what about LW's diet and rules for their home.  My clues about communication from LW is that they don't want to be seen as 'preachy' and like I said above, alluded to not having guests often so 'it's not normally an issue'.
    The following opinion is based on inference based on LW's description of her mother's behavior:

    I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that she knew her daughter is Vegan, but probably not that she doesn't allow any meat in her home at all, not even for guests who are not vegan.  I don't think her daughter informed her guests of this before they made plans to visit.

    I'm also going to assume that Mom chose not to tell her husband that daughter was vegan bc she knows he tends to overreact, and also bc she probably didn't realize her daughter would have issues with them eating what they wanted to eat in her home even if they brought it. 

    OR they both knew daughter was a Vegan but had no idea she wouldn't let them eat meat in her home, even if they brought it.

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


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    ei34ei34 member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    The stepfather sounds immature.  Huffing out to eat a rotisserie chicken on a park bench in winter seems super dramatic, and banning LW from their house because “there’s meat in it” is ridiculous.  I like @OliveOilsMom wording to the mother.
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    The following opinion is based on inference based on LW's description of her mother's behavior:

    I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that she knew her daughter is Vegan, but probably not that she doesn't allow any meat in her home at all, not even for guests who are not vegan.  I don't think her daughter informed her guests of this before they made plans to visit.

    I'm also going to assume that Mom chose not to tell her husband that daughter was vegan bc she knows he tends to overreact, and also bc she probably didn't realize her daughter would have issues with them eating what they wanted to eat in her home even if they brought it. 

    OR they both knew daughter was a Vegan but had no idea she wouldn't let them eat meat in her home, even if they brought it.

    Thanks for this!  So much of that letter didn't make sense because I was making assumptions that meant there was a lot of really weird behavior going on.

    This set of assumptions at least make most of the actions seem more logical.

    • Still not cool they brought chicken, knowing the LW wouldn't eat it.  At least the mother would have known her daughter is vegan and could have at least danced the issue with "she's really more a veggie person and won't eat that, let's get this (insert vegan dish) instead."
    • Assuming the mother/SD had never been told, I also think the LW should have bitten her tongue and let them enjoy their lunch in her home.  Then mention it well ahead of their next visit.
    • Again assuming they hadn't been told ahead of time, I think the LW should have a talk with her SD and offer a mild apology.  Like, "I'm sorry you didn't feel comfortable having your lunch in my home!  That was not my intent and I'm partially to blame for not mentioning ahead of time that I prefer to have no meat products in my home.  You and mom are more than welcome to come back.  Of course I understand that you all have meat products in your home!  I have no qualms with that and I hope that isn't the impression you have."
    With all that said, her SD seems WAY over the top with his reaction.  He may not change his mind, but at least she would have the piece of mind that she apologized for her mis-step and tried to smooth things over.  And if he still wants to be a total jerk, it's all on him.
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