Your co-irkers suck.

mrsconn23

Dear Prudence,

My office has an alternating holiday schedule (everyone has to work at least one major one). For the past three years, I have worked Thanksgiving and Christmas, since my family lives overseas, and got New Year’s off. Now that I am engaged, I want to see my fiancée’s family for Thanksgiving or Christmas. I requested one off but received both. My supervisor explained that since I had never had Thanksgiving or Christmas off, the computer system gave me first priority. I was excited and willing to trade with someone, but the response of my co-workers has left a nasty taste in my mouth. Several complained about me “gaming” the system and called it “unfair.” One straight-up demanded that I give up Christmas to her because she has kids. I am almost at the point of staying in and spending the holiday watching movies with my fiancée and our dog out of spite. How do I respond?

—Holiday Hogs

ShesSoCold

mrsconn23 said:

Dear Prudence,

My office has an alternating holiday schedule (everyone has to work at least one major one). For the past three years, I have worked Thanksgiving and Christmas, since my family lives overseas, and got New Year’s off. Now that I am engaged, I want to see my fiancée’s family for Thanksgiving or Christmas. I requested one off but received both. My supervisor explained that since I had never had Thanksgiving or Christmas off, the computer system gave me first priority. I was excited and willing to trade with someone, but the response of my co-workers has left a nasty taste in my mouth. Several complained about me “gaming” the system and called it “unfair.” One straight-up demanded that I give up Christmas to her because she has kids. I am almost at the point of staying in and spending the holiday watching movies with my fiancée and our dog out of spite. How do I respond?

—Holiday Hogs

Exactly like this. Eff these people.

VarunaTT

You take that BS straight to your supervisor, with names.  Supervisors needs to knock that right down.

This is really the point that irritates me with parents/kids dynamics in the workforce.  They always get first priority.  Hey, guess what?  I have a mother/father and family as well and they're literally as important to me as your kids are to you.  And I don't have to give one little iota of concern to your kids.  Families should be treated equally, not ranked by how many kids there are.

banana468

VarunaTT said:

You take that BS straight to your supervisor, with names.  Supervisors needs to knock that right down.

This is really the point that irritates me with parents/kids dynamics in the workforce.  They always get first priority.  Hey, guess what?  I have a mother/father and family as well and they're literally as important to me as your kids are to you.  And I don't have to give one little iota of concern to your kids.  Families should be treated equally, not ranked by how many kids there are.

Word.

My mom's best friend is single and has never married and has no kids.   Years ago her boss said, "Well your'e working the holiday because you don't have family." She gasped and said, "Oh  no!   Did they die!?" And it took some silence and conversation to understand that lack of children is not the same as lack of family.

I'm a much bigger fan of just treating employees equally as well.   I rolled my eyes hardcore years ago when I was a 20 something and saw the employees who used the ample unpaid sick time conveniently on snow days while I made sure to get to work on time when 6" fell.  

I completely agree with your response @V@VarunaTT.   Document that in writing and then follow up with clarification.   "Per this documented process I have worked the following holidays between 2014 and 2015.   I now have these two holidays off based on hours worked in prior years.  " 

mrsconn23

VarunaTT said:

You take that BS straight to your supervisor, with names.  Supervisors needs to knock that right down.

This is really the point that irritates me with parents/kids dynamics in the workforce.  They always get first priority.  Hey, guess what?  I have a mother/father and family as well and they're literally as important to me as your kids are to you.  And I don't have to give one little iota of concern to your kids.  Families should be treated equally, not ranked by how many kids there are.

This letter made me think of your post from the other day.  

We only have one 'holiday' that our offices are open, the day after Thanksgiving.  They used to be closed, but changed to Christmas Eve a few years back. Some teams still don't have to work it, but my team does.  Technically, none of us should have to work it due to our tenure...but because my group is 'open' that day, it overrides the tenure rules.  My boss has asked  for us to be closed, but our manager won't do it.  So, our boss put us on an every other year schedule and then when it gets closer, you might be able to get it off if you're scheduled depending on work volume leading up to it.  

So LW's office could benefit from a better assignment system and a supervisor that manages to check his people before they go to their teammates with crazy, and assholish, demands.  

short+sassy

I would love to hear the coworker explanations of how the LW generously working on both holidays for THREE years was "gaming the system", lmao.

As if she even knew with her "diabolical" plan that the result of working all those holidays would give her priority in the system to get them both off in the same year.

It's just another example of people turning a favor into an expectation.  And then being ungrateful jerks, just because the favor is no longer being done.

mrsconn23

Also, all these comments to LW and ganging up on them because of the supposed system in place for making these assignments creates a hostile work environment.  Again, it's really bullshit that LW's supervisor doesn't have control of the team. 

charlotte989875

Stay in with the dog.

But also take every single comment to your supervisor, that’s part of the deal of managing a team.

I also would be spiteful enough to be tell nasty coworker that I was going to offer to switch but since she was so terrible you’re going to keep the day off and she should spend Jesus’s birthday thinking about how he would treat his coworkers. 

ernursej

This was a problem in my nursing place for a long time. We have to staff the ED 24/7 including holidays. People used to request one or the other and the system would try to accommodate but in the end, someone always got something they didn't want. Now what happens is that you only work Christmas or New Years and the schedule does it automatically. If you don't like what you got, you can trade with someone but it is much fairer.

OliveOilsMom

My mom was a nurse and at her first hospital job, she always tried to alternate with someone else for Christmas BUT it was so that other nurses could be home with their young kids on Christmas.  We were all older, so while she wasn't home Christmas Day, we always had Christmas Eve with her.  People on her unit would seek her out when the schedule was released! 

Then she moved to a different hospital.  That job worked a rotating schedule.  There were 6 holidays and each year you worked 3 and the next year you work the other 3.  You also could not switch with anyone else!  That was an adjustment and is now the reason we don't have our 7 Fishes Celebration on Christmas Eve anymore.  We usually do the Saturday before Christmas Eve now.

I think more companies could benefit from this type of rotation when it is required to have people working on holidays.  It is always fair and from year to year, you will know what holidays you will be working well in advance.

As for LW, she should keep the days she was given.  And I would report the co-workers. 

thisismynickname2

On a related note, not all holidays are recognized by employers anyway. We have Christmas and New Years and Thanksgiving closures, but many of my colleagues save their PTO to use on the major Jewish holidays as our employer doesn't automatically close for those. 

While I recognize what I'm about to say can be tough for large families, a holiDAY is really just a day. I don't know anyone who goes to both Christmas Eve and Christmas Day mass- they choose one or the other, for example (or midnight mass!). You can eat turkey with your family any day. Drink yourself silly on New Year's Day if you can't get off NYE. Getting butthurt over a holiday is pointless. A lot of people bitch about their families anyway, and having to work is a good way to avoid the drama and see who you want to see at another time. Even if it's just, "Oh, I'll be over in time for dessert but not the main meal'" or whatever. 

Bah humbug. 

short+sassy

thisismynickname2 said:

On a related note, not all holidays are recognized by employers anyway. We have Christmas and New Years and Thanksgiving closures, but many of my colleagues save their PTO to use on the major Jewish holidays as our employer doesn't automatically close for those. 

While I recognize what I'm about to say can be tough for large families, a holiDAY is really just a day. I don't know anyone who goes to both Christmas Eve and Christmas Day mass- they choose one or the other, for example (or midnight mass!). You can eat turkey with your family any day. Drink yourself silly on New Year's Day if you can't get off NYE. Getting butthurt over a holiday is pointless. A lot of people bitch about their families anyway, and having to work is a good way to avoid the drama and see who you want to see at another time. Even if it's just, "Oh, I'll be over in time for dessert but not the main meal'" or whatever. 

Bah humbug. 

That's my attitude also and, admittedly, I don't really get it.  But then, I also grew up in a household where my dad sometimes had to work on TG or Xmas.  Not usually, but sometimes.  On years when that happened, we'd celebrate the holiday on whatever day he had off that was the closest.  NBD.  The important thing is spending time with family.  It doesn't matter if you are eating turkey or opening presents on the "wrong" day, lol.

Though I do understand it can be trickier when everybody else a person is celebrating with has TG off and they don't.

I managed a gas station/convenience store a few years ago and we were open 24/7.  Christmas and TG was mandatory for everyone, so as not to play favorites.  But each employee only had to work a 4-hour shift.  No show=Fired.

On Christmas Day, all hours were double time.  Yee haw!  While everyone else was bummed and complaining, I worked a 16-hour shift to take advantage of all that extra money, lol.  And then my H and celebrated Christmas on my next day off.

charlotte989875

thisismynickname2 said:

On a related note, not all holidays are recognized by employers anyway. We have Christmas and New Years and Thanksgiving closures, but many of my colleagues save their PTO to use on the major Jewish holidays as our employer doesn't automatically close for those. 

While I recognize what I'm about to say can be tough for large families, a holiDAY is really just a day. I don't know anyone who goes to both Christmas Eve and Christmas Day mass- they choose one or the other, for example (or midnight mass!). You can eat turkey with your family any day. Drink yourself silly on New Year's Day if you can't get off NYE. Getting butthurt over a holiday is pointless. A lot of people bitch about their families anyway, and having to work is a good way to avoid the drama and see who you want to see at another time. Even if it's just, "Oh, I'll be over in time for dessert but not the main meal'" or whatever. 

Bah humbug. 

My Mom is a nurse. We always celebrated at least one major holiday on another day. We all lived and turned out just fine. 

ernursej

It took my Mom a long time to realize that a holiday is about being together and doesn't necessarily have to be on the calendar date that most people celebrate on. I heard her say a few years ago that now she prefers to do Christmas on another day because then she can take phone calls at leisure and not be running around and trying to deal with everything. My Mom is a smart lady!

ShesSoCold

ernursej said:

It took my Mom a long time to realize that a holiday is about being together and doesn't necessarily have to be on the calendar date that most people celebrate on. I heard her say a few years ago that now she prefers to do Christmas on another day because then she can take phone calls at leisure and not be running around and trying to deal with everything. My Mom is a smart lady!

STUCK

H's mom is like your mom used to be. She lives 6 hours away and we used to alternate going up and staying home for holidays. My problem, though,  was that my large extended family gets together on Thanksgiving and Christmas. And now, big holidays are the only times I see them. And Christmas at H's mom's is just me, H, MIL and stepFIL. We can do that on literally any day and it would be exactly the same. I can't wrangle (or host!) 45 people to get together on some other day. H did agree with me and we haven't gone up on a holiday in years. 

They did come down to us one year on Christmas, but H said he won't invite them back (they didn't want to go to my family Christmas, for basically no reason, so H had to miss it and I had to go alone with no real reason why my husband and in-laws were sitting at home 15 minutes away). 

Thankfully they're on vacation from early-November to almost Christmas now so we see them on their way out and on their way back home so we don't have to worry about holidays really. 

banana468

Totally agree that you can work a holiday for most times.   When kiddos are little it's hard to escape that Christmas magic in the morning and I am sympathetic to parents of young kiddos who may miss it.   That said, you come up with a way to create your own new tradition to keep the magic YOUR way.

The only times that I roll my eyes are when the overall message comes off that time is not made for our group because the other side is more important.   BIL has given MIL and FIL that message loud and clear regarding Christmas and I think he's realizing that this hasn't won his aging parents over. 

My family now has a post-Christmas get together in January for the aunts and uncles and cousins on my dad's side.   We're all getting older - it's just easier to do it later. 

Not everyone working for a business that runs on holidays can get the day off.   I hate to be a "you knew this when you took the job" but well.....you did.   So as long as the employer is being fair about the distribution of how the holidays are worked, you need to keep the complaints to yourself.

6fsn

When we were on call they would rotate the holidays and you got what you got. It was a 5 wk rotation so nobody ever got Christmas and thanksgiving.  Swing shift people just made it work. They sure has heck weren’t traded out of triple time plus shift differential:). First day of hunting season was a different story. 

short+sassy

6fsn said:

When we were on call they would rotate the holidays and you got what you got. It was a 5 wk rotation so nobody ever got Christmas and thanksgiving.  Swing shift people just made it work. They sure has heck weren’t traded out of triple time plus shift differential:). First day of hunting season was a different story. 

Oh goodness, yes!  I have a few coworkers who treat that like a holiday, lol.

VarunaTT

This was one thing that irked me badly about former MIL.  It HAD to be THE day, with ALL OF the family.  She made her other son drive up from KC on TG after a tree had fallen on their house (he's an adult and shouldn't have given into the guilt trip and I told him so)!  His wife stayed home to take care of all of the crap, which was a lot, being on a holiday.  I still don't know how they didn't divorce over that.  It was always, "I just want to have all of my family."  She never liked me, b/c I didn't fall for the goddamn guilt trip.  I made us alternate TG and my family always did Xmas Eve, so Xmas was never a big deal.  "Well, we used to go to multiple Thanksgivings!"  So what, Carol, I don't want to spend all my goddamn vacation running around to make everyone but me happy.

banana468

VarunaTT said:

This was one thing that irked me badly about former MIL.  It HAD to be THE day, with ALL OF the family.  She made her other son drive up from KC on TG after a tree had fallen on their house (he's an adult and shouldn't have given into the guilt trip and I told him so)!  His wife stayed home to take care of all of the crap, which was a lot, being on a holiday.  I still don't know how they didn't divorce over that.  It was always, "I just want to have all of my family."  She never liked me, b/c I didn't fall for the goddamn guilt trip.  I made us alternate TG and my family always did Xmas Eve, so Xmas was never a big deal.  "Well, we used to go to multiple Thanksgivings!"  So what, Carol, I don't want to spend all my goddamn vacation running around to make everyone but me happy.

My aunt commented that one of the fights she had with her MIL was over holidays saying, "Well he has ALWAYS spent the holidays with US."  And she was rather quick to say, "And *I* have always spent the holidays with *MY* family." 

Ultimately the solution that worked for a few years was that they'd just host all holidays.  That only worked for Christmas until my parents started doing it and luckily it was only a 20 minute drive for people to get to her house.

Needless to say her first marriage ended in divorce and this was among the issues because telling mom no wasn't something that worked out well. 

VarunaTT

banana468 said:

VarunaTT said:

This was one thing that irked me badly about former MIL.  It HAD to be THE day, with ALL OF the family.  She made her other son drive up from KC on TG after a tree had fallen on their house (he's an adult and shouldn't have given into the guilt trip and I told him so)!  His wife stayed home to take care of all of the crap, which was a lot, being on a holiday.  I still don't know how they didn't divorce over that.  It was always, "I just want to have all of my family."  She never liked me, b/c I didn't fall for the goddamn guilt trip.  I made us alternate TG and my family always did Xmas Eve, so Xmas was never a big deal.  "Well, we used to go to multiple Thanksgivings!"  So what, Carol, I don't want to spend all my goddamn vacation running around to make everyone but me happy.

My aunt commented that one of the fights she had with her MIL was over holidays saying, "Well he has ALWAYS spent the holidays with US."  And she was rather quick to say, "And *I* have always spent the holidays with *MY* family." 

Ultimately the solution that worked for a few years was that they'd just host all holidays.  That only worked for Christmas until my parents started doing it and luckily it was only a 20 minute drive for people to get to her house.

Needless to say her first marriage ended in divorce and this was among the issues because telling mom no wasn't something that worked out well. 

And you've also created a new family that is important too.  This is where the kids things also comes into play, b/c (not from everyone), but very often if you are a couple w/out kids, I don't think people really treat or think of you as a family like they do couple + kids.

ETA:  This sounds like the same thing.  Most oftentimes, it was reflected in the childless couple being expected to do the traveling.  I get it; I also was like..someone can come to us one time!

6fsn

One year for Christmas with my ils we were trying to find a date that everyone like get together. 6 adults (1 hospital nurse, 1 with a call schedule, 2 out of state) and 8 grandkids could all make one day. It happened to be the day mil was getting a pedicure and she wasn’t moving it. That was the year I stopped trying to accommodate them. 

ei34

charlotte989875 said:

thisismynickname2 said:

On a related note, not all holidays are recognized by employers anyway. We have Christmas and New Years and Thanksgiving closures, but many of my colleagues save their PTO to use on the major Jewish holidays as our employer doesn't automatically close for those. 

While I recognize what I'm about to say can be tough for large families, a holiDAY is really just a day. I don't know anyone who goes to both Christmas Eve and Christmas Day mass- they choose one or the other, for example (or midnight mass!). You can eat turkey with your family any day. Drink yourself silly on New Year's Day if you can't get off NYE. Getting butthurt over a holiday is pointless. A lot of people bitch about their families anyway, and having to work is a good way to avoid the drama and see who you want to see at another time. Even if it's just, "Oh, I'll be over in time for dessert but not the main meal'" or whatever. 

Bah humbug. 

My Mom is a nurse. We always celebrated at least one major holiday on another day. We all lived and turned out just fine. 

Firefighter Dad and now firefighter H...I was fine and my kids will be too

charlotte989875

eileenrob said:

charlotte989875 said:

thisismynickname2 said:

On a related note, not all holidays are recognized by employers anyway. We have Christmas and New Years and Thanksgiving closures, but many of my colleagues save their PTO to use on the major Jewish holidays as our employer doesn't automatically close for those. 

While I recognize what I'm about to say can be tough for large families, a holiDAY is really just a day. I don't know anyone who goes to both Christmas Eve and Christmas Day mass- they choose one or the other, for example (or midnight mass!). You can eat turkey with your family any day. Drink yourself silly on New Year's Day if you can't get off NYE. Getting butthurt over a holiday is pointless. A lot of people bitch about their families anyway, and having to work is a good way to avoid the drama and see who you want to see at another time. Even if it's just, "Oh, I'll be over in time for dessert but not the main meal'" or whatever. 

Bah humbug. 

My Mom is a nurse. We always celebrated at least one major holiday on another day. We all lived and turned out just fine. 

Firefighter Dad and now firefighter H...I was fine and my kids will be too

Plus as a kid it always seemed like there were extra presents because of more days with presents!

banana468

VarunaTT said:

banana468 said:

VarunaTT said:

This was one thing that irked me badly about former MIL.  It HAD to be THE day, with ALL OF the family.  She made her other son drive up from KC on TG after a tree had fallen on their house (he's an adult and shouldn't have given into the guilt trip and I told him so)!  His wife stayed home to take care of all of the crap, which was a lot, being on a holiday.  I still don't know how they didn't divorce over that.  It was always, "I just want to have all of my family."  She never liked me, b/c I didn't fall for the goddamn guilt trip.  I made us alternate TG and my family always did Xmas Eve, so Xmas was never a big deal.  "Well, we used to go to multiple Thanksgivings!"  So what, Carol, I don't want to spend all my goddamn vacation running around to make everyone but me happy.

My aunt commented that one of the fights she had with her MIL was over holidays saying, "Well he has ALWAYS spent the holidays with US."  And she was rather quick to say, "And *I* have always spent the holidays with *MY* family." 

Ultimately the solution that worked for a few years was that they'd just host all holidays.  That only worked for Christmas until my parents started doing it and luckily it was only a 20 minute drive for people to get to her house.

Needless to say her first marriage ended in divorce and this was among the issues because telling mom no wasn't something that worked out well. 

And you've also created a new family that is important too.  This is where the kids things also comes into play, b/c (not from everyone), but very often if you are a couple w/out kids, I don't think people really treat or think of you as a family like they do couple + kids.

ETA:  This sounds like the same thing.  Most oftentimes, it was reflected in the childless couple being expected to do the traveling.  I get it; I also was like..someone can come to us one time!

For my family at the time Mom and Dad lived about 20 minutes from my aunt and uncle.   They started hosting Xmas when we were younger so it was easier than saying, "That's nice stuff kids.   Pack it up we're on the road!"   Then Auntie and her H and the rest of my mom's family and the available ones on Dad's side went to my parents' for Xmas.   That meant that my aunt's IL's were once again pulling the crap asking where auntie and her H were going but I think they were at our house for the time that they were married.   They divorced by the time I was 6 so my memory on all of it was somewhat fuzzy.  

@6fsn, I'd be holding strong in the 'not gonna do it wouldn't be prudent' not changing my plans if MIL pulled that pedicure punkassery. 

mrsconn23

Honestly, I hate the holidays now that MIL is gone.  Last year we went to FIL's on the 23rd and stayed through the morning of the 25th and he was still  passively-aggressively (barely...more like aggressive-aggressively) angry at us for leaving after Christmas breakfast. 

We did Thanksgiving with my family on Thanksgiving.  We then planned and hosted a Thanksgiving for DH's family the Saturday after.  FIL showed up late and then left in a giant huff after his dog played too rough with DefConn and DefConn freaked out on her (he wasn't really hurt, but tired and she scared him...he loves FIL's dog and she loves him).  

I get that I cannot understand what it's like to lose a spouse, but FIL is not reasonable at all and chooses to not understand that we have other family and obligations (or in BIL/SIL's case, they wanted to do Christmas morning in their new house with their firstborn before they had baby #2).  And it's not like FIL doesn't have places to go.  My family basically gives him an open-ended invite to everything.  He also has friends that live in town that would be more than happy to have him. 

Plus, SIL never makes an effort to come to town for any holidays and it feels like BIL/SIL begrudgingly come to town for holidays. 

I'm not looking forward to this year at all, because it might be the year I lose it on everyone if FIL continues his spoiled baby act. 

Anyway...one day/thing at a time.  I have 2 months before any of this comes into play. /end holiday rant tangent   

downtondiva

VarunaTT said:

You take that BS straight to your supervisor, with names.  Supervisors needs to knock that right down.

This is really the point that irritates me with parents/kids dynamics in the workforce.  They always get first priority.  Hey, guess what?  I have a mother/father and family as well and they're literally as important to me as your kids are to you.  And I don't have to give one little iota of concern to your kids.  Families should be treated equally, not ranked by how many kids there are.

I am just quoting this so I can say THANK YOU. 

thisismynickname2

Quick funny story. About two years, my sister's in-laws all of a sudden decided that they wanted all four of their children + families present ON Christmas Day in addition to ON Thanksgiving as they've always gotten. My mom very nearly shit a brick, she was so upset. Christmas Day was always our day. 

I conveniently got pregnant so my sister had a perfect excuse to say no to her in-laws and spend Christmas Day with us as usual, haha. 

But anyway, letters like the OP's make me thankful that not only do all our employers close on TG and Christmas, but family obligations between me, my in-laws, and my sister's in-laws all generally line up nicely. 

MesmrEwe

6fsn said:

When we were on call they would rotate the holidays and you got what you got. It was a 5 wk rotation so nobody ever got Christmas and thanksgiving.  Swing shift people just made it work. They sure has heck weren’t traded out of triple time plus shift differential:). First day of hunting season was a different story. 

Yep!  That date is more sacred than any others during the year.  Labor Day, Memorial Day, Easter, 4th of July, New Years, Christmas, etc. NBD, Opening weekend of Deer, Fishing, Goose, Pheasant, or Bear season - NOPE!

It wasn't until DH was no longer working for his former family business that we looked at eachother and didn't know how to deal with having Christmas Eve and Day off from working and do what most people get to!  Part of working a job that is open 365 is you accept those shifts may be part of your life.  Sure - it's nice when things can be worked so the parents of little kids in the magic years can be home for the "Magic moment" that is Christmas morning by coming in slightly late (say 10 for a day-shift or go home early from the night shift for when the kids normally wake up), or wake the kiddies up to do it quickly before taking off for work, but that doesn't always happen.  Kids will adjust and understand if "We have to wait for Mom/Dad to get home before we open up gifts from Santa!"..  

LW either needs to enjoy Christmas guilt free or trade it for 2 shifts covered for the price of one...