difference between 'being married' and a 'wedding'

kimberlyirene

I got countless gasps on the main etiquette board when I asked this question, so I thought this may be a little more understand group... Fiance is in flight school, so were stuck down here in Alabama away from all the family. Since I would really love to not have to PCS and deal with pre-mob AND do military ID, bank stuff, etc. can we do a courthouse thing and have an actual ceremony later on when our families (particularly his parents who are stationed in Italy) can be there?

AmoroAgain

You didn't get only gasps- you also got a lot of helpful advice from someone who IS a military bride, and from myself who moved to Italy with her FI and decided to postpone the big wedding until it could be worked out.You just didn't want to hear what we said, which was, it's your choice, but you need to live what what you decide.  How is that all gasp and no advice?  Ridiculous.

temerityjane

I'm sorry you didn't hear what you wanted on the other board, but Amoro is right. I AM a military bride and I sympathize, believe me I do. I hold my breath every time orders come down, hoping please please please that they not be for him, that we can make it to our wedding and have the wedding we want. But if those orders DO come down, and we DO have to get married (and again, I truly understand your position with marriage and the military and how everything is difficult until you've got that dependant card), then anything we would choose to do afterward would be nothing more than a reenactment of the actual marriage.

ac_in_dc

Hmm...if I were you I'd have a wedding now. Do something small and affordable with whoever is close by. Later on, have a big party celebrating the marriage, and have his dad give you a blessing. But don't call it a wedding or a vow renewal. A couple of folks encouraged FI and I to have a courthouse ceremony 6 months before the wedding, since the financial benefits we'd get from that (he's in the navy) would finance the party.  But we didn't feel right doing that. Just make sure that what you're doing is genuine and authentic. Good luck!

kelseymw

I don't see anything wrong with it... I understand the importance of wanting to be recognized as a part of his life by the military. You will be legally married, yes, once you do the ceremony and paperwork at the courthouse. And the benefit of actually being recognized as a spouse by the Army makes things a lot easier. But I don't think there's anything wrong with having an actual "wedding" in a few months when you have time for your family and friends to gather. There is something special about having everyone important in your life gather together to celebrate the commitment you are making and recognize you as man and wife. A courthouse ceremony is legal, an actual "wedding" is sentimental. Anyone who is involved in your life enough to WANT to see you get married will come to a wedding that you invite them to. Your close family and friends will want to be there, and should understand the situation if you explain it to them. Ultimately, do what is best for you. Don't let the opinions of any of these girls change that. It makes it very difficult to legally just be a girlfriend/fiance of a soldier. I don't think you are being immature as some may have implied on the other board; there is a difference in "being married" and having that "wedding" that means something to you, your FI and your families. Also, in some states (I know where I am from for sure, Texas) you can do a courthouse wedding but you still have to obtain a completely new marriage license for any sort of other "wedding" to be performed legally. (At least that is what I was told by our chaplain). I would research the logistics behind it, because you could actually "get married" twice

AmoroAgain

Kelsey, no one called the OP immature.  Before you start running off at the mouth as to what we did or didn't do on P&E, perhaps you should go read it.

kelseymw

I said "implied," which means that the statement wasn't overt but more so suggested. When someone tells me how things should be "when you're an adult," I take that as an attempt to be taught what it's like to be "an adult," which wouldn't be necessary if the "teacher" thought I was acting like an "adult" in the first place.

snyderl

i didn't see the other post, so i'm just going by what i've read here...but IMO you need to do what is best for you and your FI, not what people think you should do/what is proper etiquette.  you can call the courthouse thing whatever you want to call it and same goes for the celebration later on.  this is about what you and FI want to help you start your lives together.  if guests/family/outsiders don't understand, then you have to take it for what it is.i was in a similar situation and made a decision that was best for me and FI.  we stand behind our decision and our friends and family are so happy for us.  bottom line - don't let anyone on the internet sway you from what you think is right for you.  good luck! 

NuggetBrain

Why did you put "marriage" in quotes?  Like its not a real marriage until you go have a big party and eat dry cake and watch Uncle Frank get wasted and start dancing shirtless?  Newsflash your "marriage" is, actually a real marriage.  What you will be doing is NOT having a marriage, but having a "wedding", which isn't really a wedding if the whole purpose of it (ie to celebrate a marriage) is to celebrate something that happened 2 years ago.  Why not just have a 2 year anniversary party. Oh, and kudos to lying to your family.  Just what the armed forces is looking for.

temerityjane

paradyse, if you think what you are doing is anything other than an absolute disgrace... I don't even know what to say to you. Lying to your family for years so that you can have your pretty princess day?

AmoroAgain

I guess that whole "truth and honor" thing in the military doesn't extend to the spouses.  Good to know.

goheels05

Just do what my parents did when my dad was about to deploy--get married after 3 months of dating without even having met eachother's parents, let alone having them there, have 3 children, make eachother miserable for 27 years when you've finally had the chance to get to know eachother, and then cheat and ask for a divorce. 

duckie1905

I guess that whole "truth and honor" thing in the military doesn't extend to the spouses. Good to know.I thought the same exact thing when I read her post.

Calypso1977

i'll say the same thing i've said before on these boards.  why the do-overs with using the military/deployment as an excuse?  During WWI and WWII, many couples got married the day before their spouse shipped out both for love and the legal/military benefits.  However, they did not turn around and do a big wedding wehn their spouse returned from war.  Why do military brides today feel teh need to do these do-overs?

babbles270

I am appalled that you are lying to your friends and family for years.  If you want to have your big day and your fancy party - fine.  It's not a wedding and it's not necessary.  But you don't need to lie and keep "secrets."Besides, if you think everyone is so stupid that they won't figure it out when you're reaping the benefits of being a military spouse, you're wrong.  They'll find out you lied and good luck then.

kyrgyzstan

Not telling your parents you're married is weird IMHO, but does not mean you're completely devoid of honor and integrity, though I wouldn't be able to do it. I'm not even close to my parents, and I would spill. Also, I hate to break it to you, but everyone is going to know. His unit, his work friends, etc. You're going to have more money for BAH too, which makes it pretty obvious. Sorry Paradyse, but everyone's going to know.I JOP'd with ExH after a deployment so we could live together. Obviously we're divorced now, and we didn't stay married terribly long. Thus I am not a fan of JOPs, and though it would make my life a lot easier prior to my hopeful commissioning date, I will not do it. I'm glad I was married, it led to my career choice, but I would not rush into it with a romance hero notion in my head again. Why get so huffy over what someone else thinks anyway? Non-military brides are generally very anti JOP. Who cares? If that's what's right for you and FI, then do it. The huffiness over what another board thinks is silly, pointless, and melodramatic, which makes people think you're unprepared for marriage. So some people on the interwebz don't like you? Big deal. Do what you want.

kimberlyirene

First of all I didn't post this question to get 'pat on the head', to be told what I want to hear, or especially to start the controversy and rude posts that have gone on here. (some of you ladies are just plain MEAN. sometimes I wish I were a guy so I didn't have to put up with this type of thing). I am open to all of the opinions I see, some people are horrified at the thought of me having two weddings. Others have been in similar situations and say to go ahead. What it all boils down to is we will do what is best for us. If it is better for you to wait, wait. In my case (I didn't want to say this before because it is personal but...) I need to have surgery; the sooner the better but definately by the end of the year. I have insurance but it is not as good as Tricare, and my fiance really wants to help me through it not only physically, but financially as well. Having a wedding is really important to both of us though; like I mentioned his father is a Navy chaplain who wants nothing more than to marry one of his sons, and my father wants to walk me down the aisle. Due to logistics of our location and where our families are (plus the fact that he's in flight school and I'm in graduate school) I really don't want to add the stress of planning an immediate wedding to my physical condition. Going to the courthouse will allow us to take care of the documentation that needs taken care of, and having a spiritual ceremony later will be something we and our families will have as a memory for the rest of our lives. It sounds like some ladies don't believe that having it all is possible, but in this case, I want it, deserve it,  have worked for it, and will get it. I really thought this site was for support, not for criticism. Even if you don't agree with someone's idea, there's no need to be ugly about it.

MsHark

you know what Kimberly - you don't owe it to any of these people to share your personal information. Do what you guys think is best for you. PLENTY of people do it. It doesn't mean your devoid of "honor and integrity" - I mean, really?!!! My husband and I JOP'd and later had a wedding. A wedding is just a celebration of a marriage but in my view, you are married when you sign it at the courthouse. However, I have friends that count the wedding - which is when they had the religious ceremony - as when they officially got married in their eyes.

atlcatlover

I'm still confused.  You said he was done with flight school in March, so why can't you plan a wedding for March?  Seems to make perfectly good sense to me.

kimberlyirene

Answer to the question- We want to have a ceremony in March (or Feb); we could do the whole she-bang (marriage license, ceremony, reception, etc.) in March but I have a phyiscal situation that would really benefit from having his insurance ASAP.

temerityjane

Firstly - no one said kimberlyirene was without honor. They were referring to the person who got married and is lying to their family about it - for years.Secondly - kimberlyirene came onto P&E, titled her post "HUGE etiquette question," obviously leading one to believe that she was asking about the etiquette rules involved, which are very black and white - not a matter of opinion.Thirdly - Just because other people DID it doesn't make it any more acceptable by ETIQUETTE standards. I'm sorry if it hurts anyone's feelings to be told you went against proper etiquette. Etiquette rules do not apply differently to the military.kimberlyirene asked an etiquette question and got an answer based on that standard. Obviously, it was not the answer she wanted to hear. However, that doesn't make it any less true. Like the rest of you, kimberlyirene is free to do what is best for her and her fiance, and you're right - our opinions don't matter on that front.That does not make it any more etiquettely correct.

navybride06

You CAN DO whatever YOU WANT TO DO. To answer your question. Everyone is different and has opinions on what is RIGHT/WRONG. I did the JOP to move with DH and be covered by health insurance for a heart issue I had, I was dropped from my parents when I left college to live with DH. We benefitted from the extra money too. I am not ashamed of it either. Our parents KNEW and a few close family members and friends back home and EVERYONE knew where we were stationed. We did the big wedding back at home, 10 months later. We celebrate the JOP between us, and the wedding with our families. We have 2 anniversaries, I say I was legally married Jan 06 and religiously in Oct 06. People understand it and those who don't- well I could give 2 sh!ts.

NuggetBrain

Why would you want two wedding dates.

Shauna0521

You can just go to the courthouse and get married. Then, instead of lying to your family like PP did, let them know you are married and plan a vow renewal ceremony.That way, everyone KNOWS. Multiple people who have done this, and not just in the military. You can still have the ceremony and reception if that's what you've always wanted.

abh12482

You and your FI need to do what is best for you all in your situation; but do talk to your families and see how they feel. I had friends who did a JOP and only told their parents. They later had a big wedding. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Having said that, I have moved three times with my FI while he goes through flight school. Yes it would be easier if we were married.  Orginally I had just wanted to do a JOP because we've been togeter longer than I care to mention, but my FI wanted the big wedding. Now that I'm busy planning that big wedding, I'm glad we didn't JOP and that on our wedding day we'll be surounded by our family and friends as we're married. But that's just us. It doesn't mean that that's how everyone has to do it, and I respect that. I know I added my two cents... but do you honestly care what people on the internet are telling you? They aren't in your situation and they don't know anything about you. Whatever you decide, I hope you and your FI are happy : )

Alko726

I posted a rather long response on the other board, and then saw this one. If you yourself know it's for the health benefits (though I heard TRICARE is not that great?), then do it since it sounds right to you. The other poster was right in that you didn't have to share that information about surgery with anyone, but then you do definitely have to take their advice with a grain of salt given that they don't know your exact circumstances. You do make it sound like it's unnecessary in that you just wanted to do bank and military ID, etc. Stuff that, to me, doesn't sound like it'd be worth JoP=ing for since you seemed to have issues with it. To answer your question as presented on this board, I think you can absolutely do a courthouse wedding and a celebration later on. To answer your question as presented on the other board, sure -- but I would suggest not lying or hiding anything from anyone. Also, if your FI's dad wants more than anything to marry one of his sons, I don't think you're fully honoring that wish by having him marry you two a second time.... I don't really think he's marrying you if you're already married, and IMO, I think it'd be insulting for him if he ever learned that you were already married when he did it. If, however, you told him about it and he just wants to "marry" you in front of friends and family and is okay with the fact that you've already gotten legally married, then by all means... I think you're right -- it's whatever you and your family make of it and if they all see it as something of an "actual" ceremony (as if the first one wasn't), cool beans. Just let your family in on it so they don't get hurt in the end. I'm not trying offend you with any of this if you take it that way... it's all my opinion, of course. Good luck!

emhendo

I am glad there is someone else on this website that is in a similar situation as me. My husband and I did go to the court to get married because we knew there was going to be an upcoming situation where we wouldnt be together. So while he is gone I will be planning our wedding, It isn't our fault ( or yours ) that we just couldn't have a wedding right now, but we wanted to be married. Planning a military wedding is hard because things happen and change so fast. I posted on another board asking just for opinions on having a wedding vs. having a party and people were straight up mean and rude and they don't know me or my situation. So you know what? Do what will make YOU and YOUR MAN happy. Don't be concerned with what others say. If ya'll go to the courthouse first and then have a wedding. Your wedding will be just as special as if you were never married before.

USAFbride2B

We got legally married back in 04. We are from AL so we just went to Gatlinburg, TN, just the two of us and got married in a state park. We didnt hide from our families, they were actually relieved since I would be moving w/ him from AL to CA, that I'd be on his ins. We are now having a vow renewal with the wedding ceremony and reception of our dreams, on our 5 year anniversary, and I wouldnt have changed a thing. It has given us more time to plan and do it right, plus we are paying most of it out in cash that we've saved, so everything wont have to go on the cc. I think this is a great way for mil couples to do it, especially when you have 2 weeks to move!

rdlclark

We had "two weddings" and I'm damned proud of both!  Since we're both AD, we had to JOP following his MITT back in Nov to even have a shot at being on the same continent.  We had our "second wedding" (OMG!!!!) on 18 July and guess what, no one gave two sh*ts when they found out! BS to the whole concept of lying and honor and all that.  Guess that makes me one lying heffer for not saying, "Excuse me, I JOPd back in November to play by the military's rules...will you still come to my wedding where I'll pledge my eternal devotion and years of cooking dinner for the man I love before God and all my family?" No, not everyone will understand but those you explain it too usually do.  And who gives a rats a$$ to those who don't? But on another note....definately the wrong board to ask that question on!  :-D

Smudges*Mom

As some have said, you and your FI need to do what is best for you, but, I would be honest with family about what you are doing. This is espeically true since your FI's father is a chaplain and would be conducting the wedding ceremony. (Despite what another poster said, you do not get a second marriage license because you are already married.) My DH and I were legally married in a JOP ceremony and had our wedding 10 weeks later. DH was getting orders to move him cross country, and we needed me to be on his orders (no time to amend the orders after the wedding, as the wedding was on a Saturday and the movers came on Monday to pack the house). We told our parents (and close friends) what we were doing and why. Nobody had a problem with it. Sure, proper ettiquette (sp!) may dictate that having two weddings is not the proper way to do things, but military life is not like civilian life. In the three years since our wedding, we have done three major moves and DH deployed. Life is different and as long as you aren't hurting anybody, who really cares how many times you celebrate your marriage! Do what is best for you. (That being said, JOPing is not for everyone.) Best of luck!

sgsl2009

We were in the middle of planning our wedding when my hubby got orders to deploy two weeks in advance. We talked it over, not knowing if he'd be back in time for our wedding (short deployment), and ended up making a quick stop at the courthouse with both of our parents. I've changed my name and it's no secret that we're married. A few days later, he was pulled back off of the deployment since he had been on the last one and there was someone volunteering to go who hadn't been, so we're back to planning our big dream wedding. We're married and still having our wedding when we wanted, and it's not a big deal to anyone. I'm just as excited and so are all of my best friends who have helped me plan. If nothing else, you can always look at it as renewing your vows and make the focus of your big wedding on the celebration of where you both are as a couple, not as the beginning of your marriage.