Military Brides

Two Weddings??? HELP!

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Re: Two Weddings??? HELP!

  • reb84reb84
    First Comment
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    edited December 2011
    Hey go for it, you can have as many days as people will come out and celebrate with you!!
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  • kyrgyzstankyrgyzstan
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    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Two Weddings??? HELP!:
    In Response to Re: Two Weddings??? HELP! : No need... but if I ever meet you, or someone who has JOP'd in secret, I'd be absolutely disgusted. And every USMC JAG Officer I've spoken to (and I know several) has told me that they'd be very disapproving of any Marine who got married in secret to accept benefits. The military has a policy against marriages exclusively for benefits.  Yes, you love each other also, but if you aren't publically acknowledging that you are a married couple, then there is no reason for you to accept benefits intended for married couples.  While it's a gray zone in the law, and your husband won't likely be brought up on charges, it is against the spirit of the policy and will definitely be frowned upon by his chain of command. So let's see... you'll lose the respect of most of the spouses of Officers, and your husband will be judged by his chain of command.  Not good, for either of you.  And all this could be avoided by simply being upfront with family and friends, so that you are NOT lying to anyone. Again: If you aren't going to present yourselves as a married couple, then you have no right accepting benefits intended for married couples. 
    Posted by calindi
    I agree. I am only an O applicant, and SO is an AD NCO. We will not JOP so that our wedding is easier (if we don't get married, we have to break up prior to my hopeful departure for OCS). While it would be a lot easier in general for us, for our housing situation (SO lives in junior enlisted married housing as a single NCO, and a lot of the other NCOs are still in the barracks), and our theoretical wedding if we got married now, I am very anti JOP. I will not do it. We'll have the wedding we can afford at the time, and it will not be in secret (even despite the fraternization issues, I find lying dishonorable). We've been together 2.5 years, which is an eternity in enlisted Marine land. We want to be as sure as possible that we're doing it for the right reasons, and not because of any other reason. And make no mistake, we would break up before we would ignore the regulations set forth by the military. We've known from the beginning this question would have to be answered, and now that I'm a college graduate, the time has come to make a decision.

    I will say that many NCOs/Os are resigned to the poor decisions their Marines are making when it comes to rushing marriages. SO's command has instituted required pre-marital counseling, which I think will definitely reduce the poorly thought out/rushed marriages. 

    I wish leadership would be more proactive about this issue. It would save so much money in BAH, they wouldn't even have to entertain a lot of the other controversial cuts they're discussing. Junior enlisted Marines should live in the barracks and leadership should do what it takes to lessen the marriages (JOP or otherwise). The pre-marital counseling, don't get married this weekend Friday passdown lectures, whatever. If it takes annoying uniform inspections after every quickie marriage, good to go. If I could put anyone who gets married on Saturday night duty for a year, I would. I bet the barracks wouldn't look so bad then, and I bet only the kids who were getting married for the right reasons (and not because they want to live with their girlfriends) would do it then.

    I hate how blasé people in the military community can be about marriage. The wide acceptance of JOPing, hiding it, etc. (the military is the only community I've ever seen where this is so commonplace) is a symptom of that, as is the very high divorce rate.

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  • melbelle24melbelle24
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    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Two Weddings??? HELP!:
    Junior enlisted Marines should live in the barracks and leadership should do what it takes to lessen the marriages (JOP or otherwise). The pre-marital counseling, don't get married this weekend Friday passdown lectures, whatever. If it takes annoying uniform inspections after every quickie marriage, good to go. If I could put anyone who gets married on Saturday night duty for a year, I would. I bet the barracks wouldn't look so bad then, and I bet only the kids who were getting married for the right reasons (and not because they want to live with their girlfriends) would do it then.
    Posted by WishIcouldbeinthe'stan
    Stan, I will admit that I agree with most of what you have to say... but I have a problem with this part. I don't think you can put all junior enlisted in a box that easily. Under what you think should be down, my FI (who is a junior enlisted Marine) and I wouldn't be able to get married. We've been together for 3 years, and we ARE getting married for the right reasons... but who would really want to get married if they would still have to live in the barracks and have duty every Saturday for their entire first year of marriage? I know I wouldn't, and I don't think that's fair. I've heard plenty of stories of guys in FI's unit getting married for the wrong reasons, but in my opinion, you're punishing those of us who are doing it right more than you're helping the situation.
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  • kyrgyzstankyrgyzstan
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    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Two Weddings??? HELP!:
    In Response to Re: Two Weddings??? HELP! : Stan, I will admit that I agree with most of what you have to say... but I have a problem with this part. I don't think you can put all junior enlisted in a box that easily. Under what you think should be down, my FI (who is a junior enlisted Marine) and I wouldn't be able to get married. We've been together for 3 years, and we ARE getting married for the right reasons... but who would really want to get married if they would still have to live in the barracks and have duty every Saturday for their entire first year of marriage? I know I wouldn't, and I don't think that's fair. I've heard plenty of stories of guys in FI's unit getting married for the wrong reasons, but in my opinion, you're punishing those of us who are doing it right more than you're helping the situation.
    Posted by melbelle24

    I'll admit there are some junior enlisted service members who probably would be mature enough to get married. I've posted about this before, but I genuinely do not believe the DOD should subsidize junior enlisted marriages. If the military doesn't trust a service member to be leaders of other Marines, they shouldn't pay for them to be leaders of families. 

    Lumping all E1-E3 (and E1-E4 in branches where E4 isn't an NCO) is necessary to make it fair. While it may be unfair to mature or older enlistees, it's the only easily painted line to make. The military can't be arbitrarily letting someLance Corporals do do it and some not. With rank comes more responsibility, and more autonomy. FWIW, I think it's wonderful that cadets at the Service Academies can't get married either. I wish regular ROTC cadets couldn't. I liken getting promoted to NCO to graduating from college. Once someone graduates from college, they have had time to be immature, and are completely able to be self-sufficient. Same with NCOs, though I'll be the first to admit I think promotion (especially in certain large MOSs in the MC) has gotten too easy, and there are too many too young NCOs running around.

    I love my friends who are married to junior enlisted Marines, but if my first name were General and my last name was Amos, I would do what I could to stall all marriages below the leadership level.

    ETA: This is all in my theoretical utopia of a Marine Corps that exists in my head. While I long for the days when people couldn't get married sans permission from their chain, that ship has long sailed.
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  • kyrgyzstankyrgyzstan
    Eighth Anniversary 1000 Comments 100 Love Its Name Dropper
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    edited December 2011
    This is what I said a few months ago on here on the same subject MelBelle (funny thing, one of my favorite posters on MN has almost the same SN). I was feeling a lot more articulate that day, and I had forgotten about my idea at the end, that would allow for some junior enlisted marriages. It's from this post: 

    There may be 'many' military couples who got married young and are still together, but junior enlisted marriages are the most likely to fail, and there are good reasons for that, besides the glaringly obvious lack of life experience due to age, but also the fact that boot camp and MOS school are things the service member should focus on COMPLETELY. The things a service member learns as E1/2/3 are among the most important things s/he will learn their entire military career. 

    There is a reason junior enlisted are supposed to live in the barracks, it inspires additional camaraderie and enforces discipline. Marriage disrupts that camaraderie, and sometimes, those bonds and attention to discipline are necessary in life threatening situations. A more seasoned service member can handle those situations better, s/he is more equipped. But very few young service members are emotionally prepared to handle both the military and a family. And very few young military spouses are prepared to handle being second to the military, which they always will and must be.

    The acceptance of young marriage is only in military culture (and occasionally some religiously conservative segments of society). It is highly likely that your young marriages will fail. I blame the Department of Defense, to be honest. A service member used to have to get permission to get married. I think the military, the mission, and service members would be better served if service members had to live in the barracks, with no BAH, until they were at least NCOs. They should prove that they are capable of being leaders in the military before the DOD pays them to be leaders of a family. If they want to be married, I do not believe the military should give them financial incentive to do so. Living in the barracks, they are provided for in food and shelter. If they wanted to send all their salary home to their wife, good to go, but they shouldn't get paid to make risky life choices. Not only would this eliminate the fraudulent marriages, but it would eliminate a lot of poorly thought out real marriages. 

    Much like a single service member of a higher rank must apply for BAH, a junior enlisted married service member could apply to live off base, like in the old days. Then, his/her seniors could make the determination based on the service member's personal abilities, and maturity. To clarify, I'm simply saying an across the board endorsement of young marriages has hurt the military, and it has hurt service members. 
    I hate Dave Ramsey
  • edited December 2011
    LmaOOOI!! Ihave to laugh at this thread.My hubby is reading this and just shaking his head and laughing. Some people really need to get a hobby,being married/soon 2 be married to a solider is not a hobby ladiesWink. That being said..

     My husband and I know quite a few guys in his Unit that are married for benefits only. If you do marry for benefits you have to follow the same rules as being married. Meaning not being seen around town with other men and women or you will have consequences to pay. Bottom line, My husband I and Both think you and your husband/Fiance/Boyfriend should use the Military for what you can, because they are sure going to use your husband/Future Husband. As far as the respect of Officers and their wives most of us Enlisted/NCO wives don't give a rats a** about respecting you unless you have proved yourself deemed worthy. Just like anyone else in the world would have to.
  • VraechelVraechel
    10 Comments
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    edited December 2011
    I just wanted to mention something. I understand people who want to get married because their partner is in the military. My husband is on a sub, when he was deployed for 6 months, there were literally MONTHS I didn't hear from him. I couldn't get on base to go to FRG meetings unless one of the wives took me. I didn't get information that was sent out to the wives until about half way through deployment when they decided that I could be allowed to get that info. It was super hard the first 40 days or so with no information, no contact, no network of support. I almost didn't get on base for their homecoming. One of the women took pity on me and picked me up AND drove us back to our car off base. Then once they came back I couldn't even get in to the grocery part of the NEX with him. I had my own insurance, and we made enough. So those benefits were not really that important. It was having the ability to be informed about what's going on that really put pressure on us to get married. We made it until he got back but it was really hard at times. I think what ever is right for you is what you should do. Ask your family. I wouldn't keep it a secret, but you also don't have to advertise it either. People on here are right, your family and friends will figure it out. So it would be weird if you didn't say anything. Just tell them your situation and I think they will understand and still be happy to celebrate with you. I told my family when we did the JOP and didn't make a big deal then. I told them we'd be having our union blessed in the church in a year and they are really excited and supportive. Good luck to you. I'm sure you'll make the best decision you can. Marrying into the military is like getting married with a higher degree of difficulty. 
  • kyrgyzstankyrgyzstan
    Eighth Anniversary 1000 Comments 100 Love Its Name Dropper
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    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Two Weddings??? HELP!:
    Bottom line, My husband I and Both think you and your husband/Fiance/Boyfriend should use the Military for what you can, because they are sure going to use your husband/Future Husband. 
    Posted by ArmyBridePrincess08
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  • VraechelVraechel
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    edited December 2011
    BTW Several of women I know who got married at 18-19 to newly enlisted men are still happily married. Very happily in fact.

    Also getting married "for the benefits" and not having a actual relationship and marriage IS fraud.
  • melbelle24melbelle24
    Fourth Anniversary 500 Comments
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    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Two Weddings??? HELP!:
    Much like a single service member of a higher rank must apply for BAH, a junior enlisted married service member could apply to live off base, like in the old days. Then, his/her seniors could make the determination based on the service member's personal abilities, and maturity. To clarify, I'm simply saying an across the board endorsement of young marriages has hurt the military, and it has hurt service members. 
    Posted by WishIcouldbeinthe'stan

    Now this I agree with. Especially the bolded part. Like I said, I agree with almost everything I've seen you post. Honestly it's just the fact that we get lumped into the category of "young, immature junior enlisted" that annoys me, just because he waited until he was 22 to enlist in the Marines. But that's not your fault. I was simply trying to point out that not everyone fits into a single neat box. Your idea about making people apply and get approved for BAH wouldn't bother me though, it actually does make sense.
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  • edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Two Weddings??? HELP!:
    In Response to Re: Two Weddings??? HELP! : I genuinely don't understand why you just don't wait until he gets back. Benefits are not a reason to get married.
    Posted by WishIcouldbeinthe'stan
    I can understand why you wouldn't wait until he gets back.  There's the fear of what if he doesn't come back, which is a feeling I'm sure we all feel.  She never said they were doing it just for the benefits. 

    I dunno.  My fiance wants to get married before he leaves soley because he wants to know if anything happens to him and he doesn't make it back that he married the woman he loved while he had the chance.  We're in Hawaii, so we don't have the option of planning a wedding where our family and friends can come.  So, we had thought about doing a wedding with just us, and then having a big ceremony when he gets back.  But, we've decided to wait until he comes back to do anything. 

    It was a really stressful choice for us, and it wasn't an easy one.  I didn't want to do it twice, I thought that took away from how special it was, but I was willing to do it because I knew how important it was to him. 

    You don't know the background to everyone's story.  Not everyone is getting married to someone in the military just for the benefits.  I'm sure other people post about this topic all the time because they need advice, not a bunch of judgmental women jumping down their throats.  Why don't some of you consider that before writing back just because someone made a different choice than you did?  I'm a little appalled and disappointed by some of the resonses on here. 

    And by no means am I advocating just getting married for the benefits.    
  • calindicalindi
    5000 Comments Second Anniversary Combo Breaker
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    edited December 2011
    First, to the previous poster, getting married in a rush before deployment isn't excusable because "he might not come back".  Whether you're married or not, dead is dead.  If I lost my boyfriend, I guarantee you that I would be just as devastated as any wife who has lost her husband (although I reserve that women who are pregnant or have children might have it worse off than a childless couple).  What do I benefit from getting married "just in case"?  He can put you as his beneficiary on his life insurance anyway, if he wants to make sure you're taken care of as a spouse would be.  That's about all you've got.

    In Response to Re: Two Weddings??? HELP!:
    LmaOOOI!! Ihave to laugh at this thread.My hubby is reading this and just shaking his head and laughing. Some people really need to get a hobby,being married/soon 2 be married to a solider is not a hobby ladies . That being said..  My husband and I know quite a few guys in his Unit that are married for benefits only. If you do marry for benefits you have to follow the same rules as being married. Meaning not being seen around town with other men and women or you will have consequences to pay. Bottom line, My husband I and Both think you and your husband/Fiance/Boyfriend should use the Military for what you can, because they are sure going to use your husband/Future Husband. As far as the respect of Officers and their wives most of us Enlisted/NCO wives don't give a rats a** about respecting you unless you have proved yourself deemed worthy. Just like anyone else in the world would have to.
    Posted by ArmyBridePrincess08
    I don't know why they haven't already, but these guys should have been brought up on charges.  You can be demoted or dishonorably discharged for getting married "only for the benefits".  Granted, prosecuting these cases isn't as high priority as several other responsibilities of JAG Officers, but you better believe this is against military policy and CAN get these men discharged.

    It sounds like your husband is in the Army.  One of my close friends is a Captain, and has served two tours in Afghanistan, and is now in law school to become a JAG Officer.  And I have never met someone with as much distain for people who abuse the system, and I guarantee you if these men were on the base where he'll be stationed, he'd prosecute them.

    And as far as most Enlisted wives not respecting Officer wives, you don't have to.  There's no rank among spouses.  But your husband had better care what his superior officers think of him, and that has something to do with their spouses and their experiences with you and your husband.  Not fair, but true. It's the same thing in the corporate world.  But you'd know that if you graduated college and had your own career before getting married.

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  • edited December 2011
    "And as far as most Enlisted wives not respecting Officer wives, you don't have to.  There's no rank among spouses.  But your husband had better care what his superior officers think of him, and that has something to do with their spouses and their experiences with you and your husband.  Not fair, but true. It's the same thing in the corporate world.  But you'd know that if you graduated college and had your own career before getting married."

    Do I think marrying for benefits is wrong, yes..I married for Love but to each their own..

    Responding to the above...

    I have and had my own Career before I married my husband. I was a Mortgage Broker for BB&T Bank. I graduated from George Mason University School of Business. At the moment I'm working on my masters. So I have my own money and my own job I don't depend on my husband on anything. I am well aware of what it takes to be a supportive wife to my husband and his career.
     
    I will tell you this I'm not kissing some captains wife's *** just because she feels entitled to it because of her husbands rank. It will never happen, and if I did my husband would never respect me. As far as my husbands higher ups are concerned. I have never had an issue with them. They are always nice and respectful to me. It's the big mouthed wives with no lives and that wear their husband rank that don't get any respect from me unless they show respect.  My best friend is a captain in the Army her husband is also. We met because we lived next door to each other off post. My husbands cousins husband is a Light Colonel in the Navy she is also one of my best friends. The both of them are two of the most down to earth people I have ever met. 

    FYI!!!! Not all of us enlisted wives are uneducated without degree's sitting at home on the couch and having babies. Another weak and empty generalization coming from people who ((think)) they are better than everyone else.Smile
  • kyrgyzstankyrgyzstan
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    edited December 2011
    Well George Mason U graduate who knows, like, all the officers in the entire world, totally,

    The Army isn't using your husband, and if he feels they are, he should get out when this enlistment is up.

    Really, anyone who thinks it's okay to use the military for anything should get out. Ask not what your country (and military) can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country (or military).
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  • edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Two Weddings??? HELP!:
    Well George Mason U graduate who knows, like, all the officers in the entire world, totally, The Army isn't using your husband, and if he feels they are, he should get out when this enlistment is up. Really, anyone who thinks it's okay to use the military for anything should get out. Ask not what your country (and military) can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country (or military).
    Posted by WishIcouldbeinthe'stan
     
    When did I say I knew all the officers in the world? Can you point that out to me? lol! I said I have one good friend that is one and a friend who is married to one.
    Was the quote above an attempt to insult me? lol!!! If it was it was a (((FAIL)))Wink

    By the way my husband is planning on doing his 20 he has 10 more to go.

  • Beachy730Beachy730
    5000 Comments Fourth Anniversary Combo Breaker
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    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Two Weddings??? HELP!:
    In Response to Re: Two Weddings??? HELP! :   When did I say I knew all the officers in the world? Can you point that out to me? lol! I said I have one good friend that is one and a friend who is married to one. Was the quote above an attempt to insult me? lol!!! If it was it was a (((FAIL))) By the way my husband is planning on doing his 20 he has 10 more to go.
    Posted by ArmyBridePrincess08
    Well then I have no respect for your husband if he cares so little about the military, but is using it to his full advantage for his pension and benefits.  All I can say is that I'm glad as hell my H isn't in the Army and God forbid stationed with your H, since it sounds like your H would be focused more on his next pay raise than watching others' backs. 
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  • edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Two Weddings??? HELP!:
    In Response to Re: Two Weddings??? HELP! : Well then I have no respect for your husband if he cares so little about the military, but is using it to his full advantage for his pension and benefits.  All I can say is that I'm glad as hell my H isn't in the Army and God forbid stationed with your H, since it sounds like your H would be focused more on his next pay raise than watching others' backs. 
    Posted by dnbeach12
    lol!!! My husband does his job he's been deployed 4 times as a Medic, and he's come back thank god. That being said he's not working for free, he's working for and towards his Retirement/Pension and Benifits like most sane people do. My husband also say's( because I'm reading all this to him).. "He's not hurt you don't respect him" lolol! 
  • VraechelVraechel
    10 Comments
    member
    edited December 2011
    Wow I kind of love reading this. It means I don't have to watch bridezillas this Sunday. Which is good, because I only get away with it when my sweetie has duty. 
    I feel like there are two issues here. People who fake a relationship to defraud the gov't out of money. We pretty much all agree that's NOT OK. It's like welfare fraud or tax evasion and should be treated as such.
    The other issue is wether or not it's ok to have a JOP wedding followed by a vow renewal later, or some sort of celebration. Honestly I can not understand why some people are so against this. If it's not right for you don't do it. It is extremely common from what I can tell. As long as the bride realizes that some people wont be as excited about her second event. It should be fine. 
    Then as far as wives enlisted wives respecting officer wives...um why are we talking about this. I feel you either like each other or you don't. Yeah we all play nice at FRG and at functions, but outside of those maybe 3-6 hrs a month why would you see anyone that you don't like? I don't and won't. How would you ever even see each other? Like at the grocery? You're kidding me right?
  • edited December 2011
    Woah...military wives are supposed to be supportive of one another, so retract the frigging claws ladies. Its NOT uncommon to have a JOP and then do a vow renewal for everyone when planning/time/deployments allow. There are some pretty evil women on here!! To the OP, Ive said on other threads, My fiance and I are doing a minister for BOTH weddings, one for us and our families and then a big one when he returns. I say go for it. F**K the people who think your selfish and what not because chances are the first time the people in attendance know whats going on. I dont agree with lying and acting like the second time is the first time to get more out of it, just be honest and do what you want to do. Theres nothing wrong with wanting to make it official before your future husband goes out and risks his life for his country.
  • calindicalindi
    5000 Comments Second Anniversary Combo Breaker
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    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Two Weddings??? HELP!:
    Woah...military wives are supposed to be supportive of one another, so retract the frigging claws ladies. Its NOT uncommon to have a JOP and then do a vow renewal for everyone when planning/time/deployments allow. There are some pretty evil women on here!! To the OP, Ive said on other threads, My fiance and I are doing a minister for BOTH weddings, one for us and our families and then a big one when he returns. I say go for it. F**K the people who think your selfish and what not because chances are the first time the people in attendance know whats going on. I dont agree with lying and acting like the second time is the first time to get more out of it, just be honest and do what you want to do. Theres nothing wrong with wanting to make it official before your future husband goes out and risks his life for his country.
    Posted by CaynLuke
    You truly don't understand the nature of this conversation.  Though some people disagree with having a JOP and a wedding (as essentially it's doubling up on the same thing), I haven't seen many people saying that JOPing first is selfish.

    What is selfish is getting married early so you can accept military benefits, while publically denying that they are actually married.  It's like pretending you're homeless and unemployed so you can get welfare and unemployment benefits while living on your friend's couch and working as a full-time babysitter getting paid in cash.  It's unethical and greedy, and if it's not directly against the law, it's certainly against the spirit of the law.

    Look, if you feel so strongly that you want to get married earlier, then by all means get married earlier.  But don't keep it a secret from family and friends.  If you say to those around you, "Listen, we want to get married with a big ceremony and reception, but because of the constraints of the military lifestyle, we feel it's best for us to get married sooner and plan the big ceremony and reception to celebrate with family and friends later." Your family and friends will understand and/or accept your situation, and will likely be just as happy to celebrate with you whenever you can do that.  But don't get married by a JOP, then go around claiming you're just engaged while accepting real financial benefits from the military.

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  • LuluP82LuluP82
    500 Comments
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    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Two Weddings??? HELP!:
    I havent read all of the responding posts except the one right before mine.  My fiance and I are in a similar situation.  Our "Big Wedding" is going to take place in Sept. 2011 but we are actually getting married in Feb. 2011 and only having 2 people be there to witness. Kind of like a Justice of the Peace type thing.  Except we are having the same Catholic priest who will be presiding our marriage ceremony in Sept also perfom the ceremony in Feb.  So basically we are getting married on the DL, not telling anyone...not even family members, and keeping it a secret until after the "big wedding" in Sept.  By keeping it a secret and not telling anyone you dont have to worry about the big wedding not feeling quite as real or special to your family and guests.  I know its going to be hard for me to keep this huge of a secret from my mom and sister...but I'm gonna do it.  Also, this way its not even a "medium sized" wedding that would possibly keep you from doing the big wedding that you've always wanted. Just and idea :) Anyway, just do what you think will feel right for you chicka.
    Posted by mlesleev
    This is exactly why people have issues with the small legal wedding followed by a second large "wedding" later. Personally, we went to the JOP and then had a religious blessing and reception about 6 months later. BUT, everyone who came to the blessing knew we were married. Everyone was still excited and happy for us, and we did the whole white dress, big party, everyone called it our wedding, etc.

    If you keep it a secret, though...you're deceiving your guests. Plus to me it seems like you know you're doing something wrong, but did it anyway. Which is just wrong.
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