Military Brides

Should we make it legal before the wedding date?

My fiance and I are playing around with the idea of signing the papers before the actually wedding date due to the amount of money we'd save if I wasn't paying for my own health insurance/prescriptions/etc. We'd still have the wedding with ceremony in July and keep that as our actually anniversary but I'll admit I'm worried our July wedding will lose something if it's already legal. Has anyone done this before or have advise??
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Re: Should we make it legal before the wedding date?

  • Victoria2013Victoria2013
    100 Comments
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    edited December 2011
    My H and I are doing that.  We did the legal part of it since we are both active duty and wanted to make sure we could get stationed at our next base together.  I personally don't think its taking anything away from our "big" wedding and I love the fact that the first one was just us.  But now we have two dates to celebrate!
  • tendonheadtendonhead
    10 Comments
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    edited December 2011
    There are several posts about this if you scroll down.
  • Beachy730Beachy730
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    edited December 2011
    Personally I think its really crappy to lie to your guests and tell them they are coming to see you get married, but in fact you are already married.  You only get 1 wedding day, so they "big wedding" would be a vow renewal, not a wedding.

    But to answer your question, no you should not get married just for the money you would be saving. 
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  • kyrgyzstankyrgyzstan
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    edited December 2011
    It's not simply signing the papers before your wedding date. It is your wedding date. I've seen once instance of JOPing that I understood, and that was in the mod's situation.

    I am anti marriages/weddings, JOP or otherwise, for benefits, 
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  • iluvmytxrgriluvmytxrgr
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    edited December 2011
    Just so you are aware, many pastors will not perform a full ceremony if you are already married.  When you go to the JOP, you don't just sign papers.  You say vows, as well.  Many pastors won't do the full ceremony because you have already made those promises to each other and are married.  They have a separate ceremony they do. 


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  • ldubbs04ldubbs04
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    edited December 2011
    It's a really tough decision that my fiance and I are discussing right now too. But we both came to the same conclusion to have a JOP ceremony and only tell our parents and siblings, no one else, not even our friends or wedding party. We are having our "wedding" in a different state next year so we are able to host our family and have them enjoy in celebrating our love, for that's what it's all about anyway! In our lives it makes sense to us and is right for us. It may not be right for everyone but I am looking forward to having the JOP day because it will be just us and we won't have to worry about the reception and making sure everyone there gets to talk to us, see us, make sure everything goes smoothly, etc. That way, next year I will actually be able to enjoy the reception! i also don't feel like i'm lying to anyone nor am i getting married just for the benefits, as i'm sure you're not. what a rediculous thing to accuse you of! we are calling it our wedding too, not a vow renewal, even if that's what it is.
  • kyrgyzstankyrgyzstan
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    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Should we make it legal before the wedding date?:
    only tell our parents and siblings, no one else, not even our friends or wedding party.! i also don't feel like i'm lying to anyone
    Posted by ldubbs04


    Those two statements cannot go together. 

    You are not telling your wedding party or your friends. That's lying by omission. 

    You're having the DOD subsidize your household for a year, and then not telling anyone (it'll get out, by the way)? It sounds gift grabby to me. Or like you're worried people won't care as much about a VR. Either way, you're lying if you invite people to a wedding and purposely don't inform them of your marital status. 

    ETA: People on this board and IRL will continue to think JOPing is a great idea and that lying about it is perfectly fine, I mean after all, our SOs are in the military, we're SO SPECIAL, but lying to people you purport to care about, either by omission or directly, is wrong. If your narcissism supersedes that, fine, it's not my life, nor are they my meaningless friendships.

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  • Beachy730Beachy730
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    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Should we make it legal before the wedding date?:
    In Response to Re: Should we make it legal before the wedding date? : Those two statements cannot go together.  You are not telling your wedding party or your friends. That's lying by omission.  You're having the DOD subsidize your household for a year, and then not telling anyone (it'll get out, by the way)? It sounds gift grabby to me. Or like you're worried people won't care as much about a VR. Either way, you're lying if you invite people to a wedding and purposely don't inform them of your marital status.  ETA: People on this board and IRL will continue to think JOPing is a great idea and that lying about it is perfectly fine, I mean after all, our SOs are in the military, we're SO SPECIAL, but lying to people you purport to care about, either by omission or directly, is wrong. If your narcissism supersedes that, fine, it's not my life, nor are they my meaningless friendships.
    Posted by WishIcouldbeinthe'stan
    Ditto all of this exactly.  Especially the bolded part.

    So glad to see there is at least a few us level headed military brides on here. 
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  • edited December 2011
    Wish and DNb~ Totally agree with you all. Getting married for benefits is a Military gold digger. The JOP is a wedding. I don't know what it is that makes people think that it is just signing a paper. WOW! REALLY!? It is the wedding!
    BTW~ If I went to wedding and the people were already married and lied, I would be POed. I don't know about anyone else, but the people that I am inviting to my wedding, I care about them. I would not lie to them under no circumstance.
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  • calindicalindi
    5000 Comments Second Anniversary Combo Breaker
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    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Should we make it legal before the wedding date?:
    It's a really tough decision that my fiance and I are discussing right now too. But we both came to the same conclusion to have a JOP ceremony and only tell our parents and siblings, no one else, not even our friends or wedding party. We are having our "wedding" in a different state next year so we are able to host our family and have them enjoy in celebrating our love, for that's what it's all about anyway! In our lives it makes sense to us and is right for us. It may not be right for everyone but I am looking forward to having the JOP day because it will be just us and we won't have to worry about the reception and making sure everyone there gets to talk to us, see us, make sure everything goes smoothly, etc. That way, next year I will actually be able to enjoy the reception! i also don't feel like i'm lying to anyone nor am i getting married just for the benefits, as i'm sure you're not. what a rediculous thing to accuse you of! we are calling it our wedding too, not a vow renewal, even if that's what it is.
    Posted by ldubbs04

    Are you kidding?!  Seriously?!  For realz?!!!

    Wow, that's just... yeah, words fail me. 

    If you aren't getting married for the benefits, then why not wait until your "wedding" to actually get married?  What's the point of getting married before?  Oh yes, the benefits.  Or is there something I'm missing?  No?  Didn't think so.

    And why aren't you telling your family about the earlier JOP?  Oh yes, because of gifts and you want your "wedding day".  Is there another reason?  Because I cannot logically think of a reason to mislead the people that are my family and friends for a year.  I can't imagine inviting them to wedding showers, a rehearsal dinner, and a wedding where they think they're seeing us become man and wife.  Except wait, we've already been man and wife for a year.  Yeah, that's just incredibly deceptive.

    Look, I'm not opposed to JOP and then a vow renewal reception.  People do destination weddings and then at-home receptions for family and friends, and I look at it similarly.  It's tacky in that case to have a gift registry for the at-home reception, same as it is for the vow renewal since it's gift-grabby - otherwise, all the other traditions don't bother me at all.  As long as things are out in the open, I figure it's a personal decision.

    But to not tell anyone you're married?  That is lying.  There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it.  If we lived on the same base, you better believe you'd be judged for it.  Everyone on base will know as you'll have DEERS and have a military ID if you're coming on base on your own (girlfriends and fiancees don't get military ID's and can't access base) and that you're using his military benefits while claiming you're not married publically.  It'll be bad for both of you.  The other military spouses will undoubtedly judge you harshly for giving us all a bad name, and it'll be bad politics with your FI's chain of command.

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  • edited December 2011
    Let's set the record straight... I am not a gold digger, nor is ldubbs04. My fiance and I have been together for several years and have done long distance for a third of it. In order to be together I left all of my friends and family and moved in with him. We decided to have the wedding near my hometown so they could be a part of it. We have NOT asked for gifts nor have we even registered!!! I will not be having a bridal shower or bachelorette party regardless of how or when we sign we get married. The big wedding is about being with the ones I love and having them witness our love for each other. If my Roman Catholic family is OK with us signing papers in our dining room one night and then fully commiting or re-commiting or whatever you want to call it in front of our them than that's all the acceptance I need. Ldubbs I wih you the best of luck and a long happy life with your fiance.
  • Beachy730Beachy730
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    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Should we make it legal before the wedding date?:
    Let's set the record straight... I am not a gold digger, nor is ldubbs04. My fiance and I have been together for several years and have done long distance for a third of it. In order to be together I left all of my friends and family and moved in with him. We decided to have the wedding near my hometown so they could be a part of it. We have NOT asked for gifts nor have we even registered!!! I will not be having a bridal shower or bachelorette party regardless of how or when we sign we get married. The big wedding is about being with the ones I love and having them witness our love for each other. If my Roman Catholic family is OK with us signing papers in our dining room one night and then fully commiting or re-commiting or whatever you want to call it in front of our them than that's all the acceptance I need. Ldubbs I wih you the best of luck and a long happy life with your fiance.
    Posted by reina72985
    Seriously, you're a military bride?  And you just had the nerve to ask ask me on the other board how I would like it if I couldn't live with my H?  Seriously I have no respect for you or your fake wedding.  Especially since you're referring to your wedding ceremony as "signing papers in our dining room one night." 
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  • kara811kara811
    2500 Comments Third Anniversary
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    edited December 2011
    Nobody said you were a gold digger OP. You said that all yourself, but PPs have the right to believe that you are marrying for benefits since you stated it would be easier money wise that you won't be paying for medical insurance etc. Marrying for benefits is widely frowned  upon here. And are you seriously just going to say "signing the papers in a dining room one night?" I think you just dug yourself another hole. The time that "you sign the papers" is you real wedding,. that is when you say your vows. The one you will be having in July is a celebration, not a wedding since you already had one. And you say that the big wedding is about being with the ones you love, if this is really the case you wouldn't be having the JOP and "signing the papers". If you truly wanted your loved ones to witness you 2 as you exchange vows, then you either wait til July or you invite them all to your JOP. Bottomline, people don't like to be fooled. So don't do it. 
  • edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Should we make it legal before the wedding date?:
    Nobody said you were a gold digger OP. You said that all yourself, but PPs have the right to believe that you are marrying for benefits since you stated it would be easier money wise that you won't be paying for medical insurance etc. Marrying for benefits is widely frowned  upon here. And are you seriously just going to say "signing the papers in a dining room one night?" I think you just dug yourself another hole. The time that "you sign the papers" is you real wedding,. that is when you say your vows. The one you will be having in July is a celebration, not a wedding since you already had one. And you say that the big wedding is about being with the ones you love, if this is really the case you wouldn't be having the JOP and "signing the papers". If you truly wanted your loved ones to witness you 2 as you exchange vows, then you either wait til July or you invite them all to your JOP. Bottomline, people don't like to be fooled. So don't do it. 
    Posted by kara811

    Maybe I'm just stupid and can't read but where does the original poster say she isn't going to tell anyone?  From what I read that was the other girl and the OP just asked about getting married for medical benefits but never said anything about keeping it a secret.  I find it so sad that you guys judge people so harshly and you don't even know her...how do you know she doesn't have some bad disease and can't afford medical treatment and this is a way for her to get it sooner since they're getting married anyway?  We don't know because we don't know her!  Lets all step back and take a chill pill.
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  • redheadtmkredheadtmk
    500 Comments
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    edited December 2011
    this is the thing that amuses me about these boards. i took part in a discussion on  abortion in a board which is typically a heated topic. everyone was completely polite, respectful, and mature in thier responses. then you go to a subject like fish centerpieces or this one and people get all worked up, rude, and judgemental. i just find it funny that people get so worked up over such silly stuff.

    i know several brides(military) who got married before thier big wedding. some told everyone, some didnt. either way nobody cared (even when they found out later) nobody is entitled to the big day but there is nothing wrong with having it either. if it works for you to get married first then have your big day...go for it.  for my best friend it made the big wedding day less stressful. she was already married so that emotional aspect and the stress of having a perfect day were not an issue. it was just a fun day to celelbrate thier love with family and friends.
  • ldubbs04ldubbs04
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    edited December 2011
    Who cares when or how we get married? We have already made a commitment to each other. That in and of itself is the most important thing. We just want to have our family involved in our lives and love, especially since right after I finished college I moved 1,500 miles away to live with my now fiance. Being so far away from home is of course difficult but being with and standing by my man makes any sadness I may have ever felt obsolete. I am thankful I have such a wonderful and loving fiance. We have already started our lives together and being married, having a wedding, or having vow renewals won't change how I feel about him or how others see us. Everyone is delighted and can't wait to congratulate us in person! We have been dating over three years and have lived together for over a year and a half, with me knowing I would spend the rest of my life with him. I actually didn't even know what Tricare was until he bought me the book Married to the Military. I don't care about what benefits I will be getting once I'm officially recognized as a wife. I don't even know how much he makes! The only benefit I can't wait for is to forever after call him my devoted husband. I don't think that's the definition of a gold digger. I am actually a bit put off by that statement and by many others. I only answered a posted question truthfully, but again, we are still talking about it, no final decision has been made. Neither of us can truly say what we will do, for we are not in the situation yet. The original question was to ask advice and discuss others' experiences, not harangue what they have to say. The point of a discussion is to generate and cultivate ideas, aka be progressive on the matter at hand. I personally, which is not to say that everyone may agree with me, have felt little growth from many comments posted. I am sorry reina72985 but like you, we are still trying to decide what is the best avenue for our relationship. I wish you the best in whatever decision you and your man come to! Either way, happy wedding planning (I've become obsessed with Say Yes to the Dress even though I am planning on wearing my grandmother's gown)! And oh, I have been talking to other wives, especially the senior ones, about how they did things and what their take is on JOP versus church weddings. Just a thought, I wouldn't talk down on having a JOP and a church wedding, you might not know who did what and could risk offense toward the CO's wife. You could just say "oh, that's not what I did, what was your experience like? Mine was..."
  • kyrgyzstankyrgyzstan
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    edited December 2011
    1) I don't hang out with the CO's wife. And more importantly than her opinion, I'd care about the CO's opinion. Well, actually, I care most about the Sgt. Major's opinion about enlisted service members. I don't know any Senior NCOs/Os who wish their Marines would JOP MORE often. Many commands are instituting required pre-marital counseling, which will result in less JOPs, logically. 

    2) You don't know how much your FI makes and you live together? Do you guys have a budget? You didn't know about tricare? I don't understand being content with knowing nothing about a life you are coming into.

    3) Lying is lying, and it is dishonorable. But I attempt to not be a nihilist, and I do not see shades of gray with morality. 

    4) No one on here cares what you do. But like you feel the need to defend your decisions, some of us will not sanction it, whether you think we're mean or not.
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  • Beachy730Beachy730
    5000 Comments Fourth Anniversary Combo Breaker
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    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Should we make it legal before the wedding date?:
    And oh, I have been talking to other wives, especially the senior ones, about how they did things and what their take is on JOP versus church weddings. Just a thought, I wouldn't talk down on having a JOP and a church wedding, you might not know who did what and could risk offense toward the CO's wife. You could just say "oh, that's not what I did, what was your experience like? Mine was..."
    Posted by ldubbs04
    This right here is the part I find to be most amusing of your whole little rant.  Besides the whole lying to your guests and having 2 "weddings" which isn't legally possible, all this talk of the JOP wedding being "just a signing of papers in my dining room" is very belittling to the people who had a JOP wedding.  So for anyone to downplay a JOP wedding as just "signing the papers," or "a small little promise to eachother" as I have specifically heard posters refer to it on these boards, is a major disrespect  to those who could only have a JOP wedding or chose to have one.  So this little piece of advice you gave is actually just making you look even worse.  Do you think about what you're saying before you type?

    And as wishicould said, you should really be a little more aware of the life you are about to enter.  Knowing how much your FI makes, and what is covered under tricare does not make you a gold digger, it makes you a responsible adult. 
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  • edited December 2011
    I think it is a little ridiculous that people come on this board and ask for adivce, then fuel an arguement when it is given.  A very good friend of mine did the JOP thing with her military H and then had a real ceremony.  They had their reasons for it and it wasn't up to me to agree or disagree.  If you want to go do it then that's what you're going to do no matter what we all say.  If it's supposed to be a secret then don't go publicly announcing it on a message board. 
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  • calindicalindi
    5000 Comments Second Anniversary Combo Breaker
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    edited December 2011
    Reina wants to get married earlier, but plans on telling people (from what I understand). 

    Honestly, I don't have a problem with this.  Life has a few more difficulties for the average military bride - for instance, if we're not married when my BF goes to TBS after law school, he has to live on base.  So even if I did what every civilian significant other would do and pay for my own move and housing, we couldn't live together and he wouldn't even be able to split the cost of rent with me.  Would I still do it if we weren't married?  Meh, we'd probably do long distance until we were ready to get married (as in, tell all our family and friends we were husband and wife, not some secret ceremony).  I feel like every military spouse has to be okay with long distance since it becomes a big part of your relationship, so the excuse that you're going to be separated if you don't JOP also isn't a good reason.

    But yeah, I get that there are extenuating circumstances.  In our case, we're choosing to get married before that happens, but not JOP.  As long as someone is open and honest about being married and not trying to hide it, I won't really judge a JOP then a vow renewal, personally.  Just don't pretend you didn't get married.

    ldubbs is planning on getting married and keeping it a secret.  Which negates her whole argument about being excited to call him her husband as why she can't wait to have the ceremony/reception with her family and MUST JOP sooner.  Which brings me back to the conclusion that the only reason she wants to JOP is the benefits.

    ldubbs - there's no such thing as a "senior wife".  They may be married to COs or someone in your FI's chain of command, but spouses don't have ranks.  Wives, girlfriends, husbands - we can be friends with whomever, and you need to forget this ranking system that some dependents get hung up on.  Spouses don't have rankings, children don't have rankings.  A General's son is just another student in class with the Corporal's daughter.  I've met some Enlisted men and women, and their significant others, who I get along with very well, but I've met a ton of them who I think are really immature and young and I have nothing in common with them.  Officers (and their spouses) seem to be more educated overall, so I have more in common with them. So as the significant other of an Officer in the USMC, let me tell you that getting married in secret to receive benefits is going to get you a major side-eye by other wives (regardless of their spouse's rank).  Except those who did the same thing, but they'll also be getting the side-eye.

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  • ldubbs04ldubbs04
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    edited December 2011
    oh good grief, saying the CO's wife was an example because she's part of my spouse's club! but, i do agree with you on pre-marriage counseling and the benefits that come from it. i am not against it becoming a prerequisite at all. i think it's a fabulous idea.
    and no, i don't to the penny know what he makes. rough estimate, of course. but i have a career that enables me to not need to know exactly, yet. we take turns with household expenses.
    and again, no, i didn't know it was called tricare. i knew he had awesome coverage for every aspect of his life, and that's the way it should be. i have my own health, dental and eye coverages and am still learning how much more tricare covers and am happy to have that in the future, but it's just not a reason to be wed. i'll admit it's a perk, but not a big enough one to be the sole foundation to get hitched.
    i don't quite remember where i said i'd lie to my guests, i might not mention some things outright, but i have no qualms with anyone knowing my actions. i'm calling it two weddings because to my mother (and many other family members) the JOP doesn't involve God, so the church ceremony would be in front of Him, so to me, maybe not to you, that's fine, is still a first union and entitled to be called a wedding. i don't want to celebrate both days as an anniversary, only one, and the other day be a special day where we make extra sure to say "i love you" and cook a nice dinner together.
    plus, i'm not newly entering the military, i've been through a move already and am expecting another next year. i know there is so much that goes into this life. but some of the best parts about it are the women and getting to know new friends and helping out and being a part of the OSC. when questions are asked at socials, the asker is not skewered for asking and then called a crappy person for thinking something. there are so many different backgrounds and experiences that i am now a part of and am grateful for. i have a lot of mentors that i will bounce ideas off of. especially now with the knowledge that i don't want to be a part of this online clique that pushes only certain agendas without even considering others. wedding forums are meant to be fun!
    i hope y'all have a wonderful day/night and i will never be posting anything ever again so feel free to really bad mouth me now.
     
  • Beachy730Beachy730
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    edited December 2011
  • forrma7forrma7
    100 Comments
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    edited December 2011
    ok, i think all of you have gone off on this crazy tangent, so i'm going to answer the OP's question without going into the "real wedding"/"fake wedding" debate.

    1) i don't think you should get married, either white wedding or JOP, for financial reasons. i know that's not your original reason, and i realize that you love your FI, but i don't think you should move your wedding date up simple because you want to save money.

    2) when i was considering doing exactly what you're talking about, except not for financial reasons, only to be based with my FI, someone gave me very good advice. they told me that i would look back on my decision and regret it because i didn't get married the way i wanted.
    what i want is to walk down the aisle with my friends and family supporting us, not to secretly go to the courthouse and not be completely honest with everyone. now some people want to have a private or intimate ceremony at the courthouse and that's perfectly fine. but it sounds like that's not what you want, so you shouldn't do it.

    3) also, in every circumstance, no matter how much you will try, SOMEONE will find out. it'll get out and turn into a stressful situation for you.



    in summation --- do what you want. get married the way you want, and don't ruin it for yourself or your FI by having a ceremony and then trying to cover it up.
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  • Victoria2013Victoria2013
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    edited December 2011
    OP sorry that you are getting all this grief.  I have also experienced this same situation on something  have posted before.  Too many people get extremely judgmental and butt hurt regardless of the situation...and what a shocker they aren't involved in it so why do they care so much.  Either way just make sure its what you want to do.  Like I said perviously my H and I an overseas version of a JOP but we definitely called and told our families before hand.  We will be having our "real" wedding when we PCS back to the states and we ARE NOT calling it a vow renewal, its our day it can be what we want.  But congratulations and enjoy planning!
  • Beachy730Beachy730
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    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Should we make it legal before the wedding date?:
    OP sorry that you are getting all this grief.  I have also experienced this same situation on something  have posted before.  Too many people get extremely judgmental and butt hurt regardless of the situation...and what a shocker they aren't involved in it so why do they care so much.  Either way just make sure its what you want to do.  Like I said perviously my H and I an overseas version of a JOP but we definitely called and told our families before hand.  We will be having our "real" wedding when we PCS back to the states and we ARE NOT calling it a vow renewal, its our day it can be what we want.  But congratulations and enjoy planning!
    Posted by Victoria2013
    To the first bolded part, I care because this "me-me-me" attitude and this sense of entitlement gives all military spouses a bad name.  Those of you with this "the world owes me everything I want because my FI or H is out defending our country" creates a stigma about military spouses in general.  Don't believe me?  Go ask civilians around a base.  Go ask the people who run privatized housing complexes. 

    And to the second bolded part, it stops beign all about what you want the second that you involve other people to your day.  To not care what anyone else thinks of you is just rude and selfish. 
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  • edited December 2011
    I whole-heartedly agree with dnb & wish throughout these posts....the sense of entitlement, the idea that you get to do whatever you want because "it's your day" is just ridiculous, stupid, selfish and childish...

    I take special interest in these "real" wedding/JOP issues because (1) both FI and I are active duty doctors, so I see it a fair amount (2 and more importantly) my brother and his WIFE did the JOP thing and are getting "married" after />1.5 years of marriage this May, no one knows except immediate family and she is continuing this charade. I DO NOT like lying for them and think its childish, ridiculous, etc.
  • KikiKatKikiKat
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    edited December 2011
    With how expensive weddings are these days (until I got engaged a few months ago, I seriously had no idea!) I think it makes pretty good sense to take advantage of the extra income. 
  • kyrgyzstankyrgyzstan
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    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Should we make it legal before the wedding date?:
    With how expensive weddings are these days (until I got engaged a few months ago, I seriously had no idea!) I think it makes pretty good sense to take advantage of the extra income. 
    Posted by KikiKat
    The Department of Defense did not intend for BAH to be used to pay for weddings people couldn't afford. Everyone knows that's what combat pay is for. 
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  • edited December 2011
    This is probably the WORST excuse to JOP it before your "wedding" that I've ever heard!! Seriously, I have no words.

    With how expensive weddings are these days (until I got engaged a few months ago, I seriously had no idea!) I think it makes pretty good sense to take advantage of the extra income. 
    Posted by KikiKat
  • edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Should we make it legal before the wedding date?:
    With how expensive weddings are these days (until I got engaged a few months ago, I seriously had no idea!) I think it makes pretty good sense to take advantage of the extra income. 
    Posted by KikiKat
    I usually try to ignore these posts, but this was way too much.

    If you really feel like you need to JOP to get a BAH to pay for a party that cannot even be called wedding anymore, your "wedding" is costing way too much. If you and your fiance can't afford to pay for your wedding before you are actually married, then you really need to cut some corners. There are a lot of ways to plan a wedding without it being extremely expensive. The BAH and benefits from Tricare are not going to give you so much extra money that it is going to make a huge difference in your plans. It's really not worth cheating the government out of money to have an overly extravagent party.

    Is there a way to put a page on this board that gives the common opinions for the JOP/second "wedding"/vow renewal questions? It is seriously the same thing every other post.
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