Fired for thoughts on gay marriage

AllAboutTheBenjamin

Key word here is thoughts.

I'd like to know what you guys think - a woman near where I live was recently let go from her job as a Catholic private school teacher for her evolving opinions on gay marriage.  On a self-evaluation she wrote that she didn't agree with all teachings of the church but that she never brought up her views in the classroom.  She was subsequently let go.

The full article -http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/365602/

What do you think about this

also why the eff did my font change wtf

katiewhompus

I think religion gets sticky when you say you follow their teachings, except in cases x, y, z. It gets even stickier when you work for a company/school that is based on those teachings. If the religion says gay marriage is a sin, and the school/workers are under contract (assumably) to follow the tenants of the religion, there you go.

baystateapple

It's a tough call. 

She didn't say anything, she didn't change the curriculum, she didn't air her opinions publically -- these are all fair game, IMO, to fire her.  While I don't agree with firing over opinions about gay marriage, I do understand that it's a Catholic school, that's their opinion and curriculum and you have to toe the line or GTFO.  But she didn't say anything publically.  That's where I think this is skating on thin ice.

AllAboutTheBenjamin

Oh I understand that katie - But for some reason this one is really puzzling to me.

Like the woman who was fired because she was taking birth control?  Well, okay, yeah, she was actively DOING something she knew went against the Catholic church.  You can control whether you take birth control or not.  But after hearing all the components of an argument I am not sure you can really control how you form your opinions on something.  I don't know if you can control how you feel about certain issues.  To me, she can't help that she doesn't agree that gays shouldn't get married.  But she doesn't talk about it in class and it doesn't affect how she does her job imo.

I dunno.  It just becomes a pretty weird thing when something tells you that you can't even think a certain way.

baystateapple

This all makes me really glad that my boss keeps out of my private life.  We operate under a "don't ask, don't tell" policy here.

katiewhompus

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_fired-for-thoughts-on-gay-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8d19458-c288-4142-968f-ef5afb6b1587Post:41d95b75-3db1-42cd-ac5b-4772363515c9">Re: Fired for thoughts on gay marriage</a>:
[QUOTE]This all makes me really glad that my boss keeps out of my private life.  We operate under a "don't ask, don't tell" policy here.
Posted by baystateapple[/QUOTE]
I think that's the only way to go while working for a religious institution. I'm sure they saw it as her straying from the faith and acted to prevent "corruption" at a later date or something like that. She would have been better served to have not said anything to begin with. 

brandichamberlain

This is tough.  While she didn't actually do anything, she openly admitted to not believing to the beliefs in which she was teaching the students.  I'm sure the though process on letting her go was more of a 'proactive' move than anything (in hopes that she doesn't, in the future, say something in the classroom).  When you work for or attend a private institution, I think this is the risk that you take. 

chelseamb11

I don't think she should have been fired.  There are plenty of people who work in Catholic schools who aren't actually Catholic or even religious for that matter, therefore don't believe all the same things the Catholic church does.  Yeah, she probably shouldn't have said anything, but she was bringing up her concerns in what she figured would be a private conversation.  And it seemedl ike she was more concerned with how the bishop was lecturing the kids, not about the actual belief itself.  If she was following the facets of the Church whenever her students were "watching", then she shouldn't be let go.

AllAboutTheBenjamin

Chels what do you think of that?  The bishop telling the kids about how their parents should vote, I mean.  You're a Catholic and a teacher so I'm interested in your thoughts.

I think political discussions at school are fine, I am just not sure about 5th graders really understanding most of it.  Once they get to high school and are taking American government and civics it would seem more appropriate.  In 5th grade, what more do you get into beyond "gay marriage is wrong."  ? 

LetsHikeToday

She should have kept her mouth shut but I don't think she should have been fired. She probably should have known better though. 

I also hope that they fire everyone that works there if they have differing views of any part of the religion. I hope this isn't just a gay marriage thing.

ElleB87

If she wasn't teaching her students about her newly formed opinions and she wasn't blatantly walking around saying "screw the Vatican's stance on gay marriage" I don't think she should be fired for it. Nowadays I do think your personal life does affect your job to a certain point (especially when you post defaming statements about your employers on fb, twitter, etc...) but I really don't think something you keep strictly to yourself should compromise your job.

DodgersBride

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_fired-for-thoughts-on-gay-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8d19458-c288-4142-968f-ef5afb6b1587Post:72019622-de39-4742-8d1d-ae403a9bfa34">Re: Fired for thoughts on gay marriage</a>:
[QUOTE]She should have kept her mouth shut but I don't think she should have been fired. <strong>She probably should have known better though</strong>.  I also hope that they fire everyone that works there if they have differing views of any part of the religion. I hope this isn't just a gay marriage thing.
Posted by LetsHikeToday[/QUOTE]

While it suck that you have to keep your opinions and feeling to yourself that is what you signed up for when taking a job with a private religious company. I assume the school concern was if she was ever going to voice her thoughts to the students. If she had that right there would have be cause to fire her.

kd.joseph

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_fired-for-thoughts-on-gay-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8d19458-c288-4142-968f-ef5afb6b1587Post:d03173a4-b3ea-42ac-9e9c-6a89c4b69d3b">Re: Fired for thoughts on gay marriage</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fired for thoughts on gay marriage : That's what I don't get.  She knew her thoughts were against their beliefs but expressed them anyway?  That is a time when i would have STFU.
Posted by jcbsjr[/QUOTE]

This! My mom has a friend who knows that she signed an agreement with the religious institution the works at, if they found some things she would be fired.

I think this is a funny topic considering a bumper sticker I saw yesterday that said "You can NOT be Catholic and be Pro-abortion"

AllAboutTheBenjamin

Ugh I hate that term.  Pro-abortion.  Yes, lets everyone run out and abort the babies, it will be great fun.  We'll pass out free koozies and play games.

celticmyss

Oh no, you said the A-word! 

brandichamberlain

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_fired-for-thoughts-on-gay-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8d19458-c288-4142-968f-ef5afb6b1587Post:d63b9678-1b60-47dc-a2ea-d9c44ed93700">Re: Fired for thoughts on gay marriage</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fired for thoughts on gay marriage : This! My mom has a friend who knows that she signed an agreement with the religious institution the works at, if they found some things she would be fired. I think this is a funny topic considering a bumper sticker I saw yesterday that said <strong>"You can NOT be Catholic and be Pro-abortion"
</strong>Posted by kd.joseph[/QUOTE]

But you can be Catholic and judge, eat pork,  and play football- right? <img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-undecided.gif" border="0" alt="Undecided" title="Undecided" />

katiewhompus

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_fired-for-thoughts-on-gay-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8d19458-c288-4142-968f-ef5afb6b1587Post:c2eee49f-7c52-4794-95b0-624d3d97f715">Re: Fired for thoughts on gay marriage</a>:
[QUOTE]If she wasn't teaching her students about her newly formed opinions and she wasn't blatantly walking around saying "screw the Vatican's stance on gay marriage" I don't think she should be fired for it. Nowadays I do think your personal life does affect your job to a certain point (especially when you post defaming statements about your employers on fb, twitter, etc...) but<strong> I really don't think something you keep strictly to yourself should compromise your job.</strong>
Posted by ElleB87[/QUOTE]
right, but she didn't keep it to herself. She brought it to her superiors attention that she felt different than the church, hence the firing. Had she kept it strictly to herself they would have never known and she would still have her job.

kd.joseph

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_fired-for-thoughts-on-gay-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8d19458-c288-4142-968f-ef5afb6b1587Post:d2211c0f-9b71-4b3c-80ac-d4f633b558bd">Re: Fired for thoughts on gay marriage</a>:
[QUOTE]Ugh I hate that term. <strong> Pro-abortion</strong>.  Yes, lets everyone run out and abort the babies, it will be great fun.  We'll pass out free koozies and play games.
Posted by AllAboutTheBenjamin[/QUOTE]

I know! I almost ran into a pole walking through the parking lot. I'm pretty sure they were parked in a handicapped spot with no tag as well, so there's that.

Its called Pro-Choice people!

LetsHikeToday

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_fired-for-thoughts-on-gay-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8d19458-c288-4142-968f-ef5afb6b1587Post:d63b9678-1b60-47dc-a2ea-d9c44ed93700">Re: Fired for thoughts on gay marriage</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fired for thoughts on gay marriage : This! My mom has a friend who knows that she signed an agreement with the religious institution the works at, if they found some things she would be fired. I think this is a funny topic considering a bumper sticker I saw yesterday that said "You can NOT be Catholic and be <strong>Pro-abortion</strong>"
Posted by kd.joseph[/QUOTE]
Weird. I'm pro choice and I still have a baby inside of me.

NicoleSahara

I don't think she should have been fired over that, but it does seem pretty dumb to say you don't agree with all the church's teachings when you are a teacher at a catholic school. She has a right to think whatever she wants, but I wouldn't tell my employer my thoughts on an issue that went against what the church teaches. Just seems like asking for trouble.

chelseamb11

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_fired-for-thoughts-on-gay-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8d19458-c288-4142-968f-ef5afb6b1587Post:f3a00d2d-f704-4177-8cf0-bb198b7a7c04">Re: Fired for thoughts on gay marriage</a>:
[QUOTE]Chels what do you think of that?  The bishop telling the kids about how their parents should vote, I mean.  You're a Catholic and a teacher so I'm interested in your thoughts. I think political discussions at school are fine, I am just not sure about 5th graders really understanding most of it.  Once they get to high school and are taking American government and civics it would seem more appropriate.  In 5th grade, what more do you get into beyond "gay marriage is wrong."  ? 
Posted by AllAboutTheBenjamin[/QUOTE]

I don't like it.  I *might* be wrong, but I think it's illegal for any sort of nonprofit to tell its members how to vote.
At our church, when the presidential primaries rollled around, they put an insert in the bulletin that said how each candidate stood on major issues.  I liked that a lot.

AllAboutTheBenjamin

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_fired-for-thoughts-on-gay-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8d19458-c288-4142-968f-ef5afb6b1587Post:eddbd406-3a6d-4ccf-8bb2-8e1697595fb1">Re: Fired for thoughts on gay marriage</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fired for thoughts on gay marriage : I don't like it.  I *might* be wrong, but I think it's illegal for any sort of nonprofit to tell its members how to vote. <strong>At our church, when the presidential primaries rollled around, they put an insert in the bulletin that said how each candidate stood on major issues.  I liked that a lot.</strong>
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]


Oh I can dig that.  For sure.

LetsHikeToday

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_fired-for-thoughts-on-gay-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8d19458-c288-4142-968f-ef5afb6b1587Post:eddbd406-3a6d-4ccf-8bb2-8e1697595fb1">Re: Fired for thoughts on gay marriage</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fired for thoughts on gay marriage : I don't like it.  I *might* be wrong, but I think it's illegal for any sort of nonprofit to tell its members how to vote. At our church, when the presidential primaries rollled around, they put an insert in the bulletin that said how each candidate stood on major issues.  I liked that a lot.
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]
Was it unbiased? Your church has every right to do that, just wondering though.

chelseamb11

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_fired-for-thoughts-on-gay-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8d19458-c288-4142-968f-ef5afb6b1587Post:247424dd-7bf4-4ad7-9516-dc627862f526">Re: Fired for thoughts on gay marriage</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fired for thoughts on gay marriage : Weird. I'm pro choice and I still have a baby inside of me.
Posted by LetsHikeToday[/QUOTE]

Well then clearly you're doing it wrong <img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-undecided.gif" border="0" alt="Undecided" title="Undecided" />

I hate the term pro-abortion and I'm even pro-life. I immediately judge anyone who uses that term, even though we have the general same set of beliefs on the subject.

chelseamb11

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_fired-for-thoughts-on-gay-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8d19458-c288-4142-968f-ef5afb6b1587Post:5126abf5-4b5a-40fd-b737-1edced449b4d">Re: Fired for thoughts on gay marriage</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fired for thoughts on gay marriage : Was it unbiased? Your church has every right to do that, just wondering though.
Posted by LetsHikeToday[/QUOTE]

Nope it wasn't.  It had Obama, Romney, Santorun, Newt and Paul and just listed facts.  It doesn't prevent priests from preaching pro-life from the pulpit of course lol. But they never once said "YOU NEED TO VOTE THIS".

LetsHikeToday

Gotcha Chels. I know it doesn't prevent them from preaching it, just wondering what the hand out was like. 

chelseamb11

I was pleasantly surprised my church did this. A lot of other churches have been trying to tell you who to vote for, at a minimum telling you to be sure to vote pro-life.

AllAboutTheBenjamin

I don't get one issue voting.  I mean, I think if someone wants to vote pro-life, then fine, but they should also read up on what else they're getting when they vote that way, you know?  Maybe it's just a hazard of my job, lol.  Because of my job I meet a lot of candidates and hear a lot about their positions on certain issues.  I usually struggle with who to vote for because I weigh so many of the different positions.

kd.joseph

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_fired-for-thoughts-on-gay-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:c8d19458-c288-4142-968f-ef5afb6b1587Post:44cb1b4b-69af-4df3-8d88-e710aa501cb8">Re: Fired for thoughts on gay marriage</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't get one issue voting.  I mean, I think if someone wants to vote pro-life, then fine, but they should also read up on what else they're getting when they vote that way, you know?  Maybe it's just a hazard of my job, lol.  Because of my job I meet a lot of candidates and hear a lot about their positions on certain issues.  I usually struggle with who to vote for because I weigh so many of the different positions.
Posted by AllAboutTheBenjamin[/QUOTE]

You mean you're an informed voter <img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-surprised.gif" border="0" alt="Surprised" title="Surprised" />

AllAboutTheBenjamin

YES THAT TOO KD

baystateapple

Man, Chels, I wish my church did that.  We've had a steady stream of "DEMOCRATS KILL BABIES" for the last four years.