Complicated photography issue

fabutan

Hi knotties,

Our wedding was earlier this month.  We just found out that our florist had brought her own photographer/friend, who took photos of our wedding decor while they were setting up.  She hadn't asked us for permission and we already had our own official photographer.  She has since posted photos of our wedding decor on her blog, which is how we noticed.  Many of these photos aren't just of the florals, but also of other decor that I spent a lot of time putting together.  She didn't contribute to any of the wedding design, except for florals.

We've since contacted the florist's photographer about the photos and asked about obtaining copies.  But the photog wants to charge us for the photos, even though they were taken without our knowledge or approval.  I have mixed feelings about paying for something, which we didn't approve in the first place!  She claims that most of her photos were of the florals themselves.  But since we paid for the florals, I thought those were technically ours too.  Many photos are of decor that we put a lot of thought and effort into making.

What's your viewpoint on this?  Any words of advice on what we should do?  Does this photog have a right to photograph the decor that we paid for without our consent and then sell those photographs back to us?

mandms08

First, I'd check your contract. It's likely there is something in there about the florist being able to take pictures of their work. Hopefully you can understand why she would want to take pictures. When you booked her, you wanted to see real-life examples, right?

Second, I don't think I'd really have an issue with this. Was she taking non-floral pictures? I can see wanting to take whole room or wider scale pictures so that she can show the "big picture" and how she ties it into a room layout/architecture.

Now if she offered more than floral (i.e. total event planning decor) and then started using your very unique ideas and if you were planning to start a wedding event planning company, I'd have issue. You worked hard on them, I understand that. But I don't think it's that big of an issue.

IMHO, just because she took pictures of floral arrangements you bought, doesn't give you copyrights to pictures she took of her designs. Likely, her photog is charging for copies of the pics. To the photog, it might sound like you just want free shots. (Which I realize is not your intent but try to look at it from the other side.)

And lastly, if the pics she posted are non-floral, I don't see the problem in asking her to remove those from her website/FB page. In that case, I think it is misrepresentation.

fabutan

Hi, thanks for the reply - that's very helpful.  We don't mind that the florist had photos taken for her portfolio, but I think she should've/could've checked with us first before using her own photog?  There were a few photos taken specifically of elements that she didn't make/design at all (i.e. placecards, table settings) with no florals in them.  It gives the impression that she created them...

I'm not in the wedding industry, so we don't mind too much that she has these posted on her blog.  I'm slightly surprised, because she didn't like my ideas to start with and was opposed to some decisions we made.  And now they're in her portfolio, which seems odd...

At the end of the day, we don't mind if she claims these ideas to be her own.  But we'd simply like a copy of the photos, since they were taken of our event and include pieces we made.  We hired our own photog and didn't know another one would be on-site.  Should we go ahead with paying for the photos?

fabutan

p.s.  We just checked the florist's contract and there was no mention of using her own photog to take photos of the event.

mandms08

Her using a photog doesn't surprise me. Just because she's talented in floral arrangements doesn't means she's good at taking pics, right? I think she'd want professional shots taken of her work with someone she trusts.

I think that does sound really odd that she took pictures of the non-floral things. But if you don't mind in the end, just chalk it up to flattery.

If you want pictures of the things your photog might not have captured, I think it's only right to pay for it. That photog did work for the photos and the editting after all. Maybe see if you could deal with the photog directly and bypass the florist.

Ellfay

I think I can help here!

Since there is nothing in your contract about photos they don't have the release they would need to use those photos for advertisement. It's shady to me that they're trying to charge you for images of your event when you didn't hire them or give them permission to take the photos. Do NOT pay for them, It's common courtesy to give copies to the clients if you're using them for advertising purposes. This is probably also a violation of your hired photographer's contract, which probably states they would be the exclusive professional shooting at the event. (Not a violation you made willingly, but a violation they caused). They are essentially encroaching on your hired photographer by taking photos of things that photographer likely also shot and trying to sell you the prints.

I would email your florist something polite about how you would be happy to sign a release for the images taken at your event if you can get copies digital copies of the photos for your own personal use. If she's not able to work that out than you ask that none of the images from your wedding be used by her or the photographer since this was a private, not public, event and there is an expectation of privacy. You did not give any other photographer permission to photograph any element of your wedding so it's only fair that you get the images for personal use if they're using them for commercial profit.

fabutan

Thanks girls for the feedback, this has been an enormous help!  This is why I love The Knot.  

Ellfay - admittedly, you are spot on the money along my line of thinking.  But you worded it so much better!  I'm also very wary of the whole privacy and permission issue.  It's not that I don't want to pay for photos, where it's warranted or what we commissioned.  But I also think that our event was private and not public...you're correct that we DID have an expectation of privacy.  It was our wedding and not for portfolio-building or other purposes.  Our official photog probably did have exclusivity rights.

After reading this post, I've sent a polite e-mail to the florist to follow up on this issue (based on the advice here).  I did approach her about it earlier today, but she simply said that she had FULL rights to her designs (...which was not really the point).  We'll see what happens or if they even respond this time around...  If any of you have any additional points/advice, I'm all ears!!  Thank you again!!  

erollis

There is no issue or legal problems of the florist having professional photos taken of her work or anything that included her work. There is a problem if she advertising nonfliral work in it. Also the photographer the cloudy hired should not be using nonfloral pictures in their portfolio. You did not give permission to that photographer to take nonfloral pics. As for paying for the nonfloral photos that is your call. Maybe you could get copies for personal use in trade for them using it in their portfolio.

weddnovice

How is the florist posting images of the flowers from your wedding violating your expectation of privacy? If she's posting pics on her blog of stuff she didn't do, ask her to take them down.  I think it is about the money.  If they give you free pics this all goes away, so it's about the money.