Second Weddings

need a divorce AND annulment?!

Ok I am sorry if this is a stupid question but I read the post about "first wedding not in church" and someone stated that if you have been married you have to have an annulment in order to get married again. Sooo that means getting divorced is not enough you have to go get your marriage annuled also?! or is that just if you want to get married in the catholic church?
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Re: need a divorce AND annulment?!

  • edited August 2012
    Just if you intend to get married in the Catholic Church.
  • pfeew! thanks!! :)
    Wedding Countdown Ticker RSVP date: WAS September 16th <117 Invited <img src=http://tinyurl.com/5okj57* />
    77 Said Yes!! image
    40 Don't want to have fun :(image
    0 Are making me stalk the mailbox image
  • Yes, you only need both if you want to be married in a Catholic church. I went through the process several years ago (my ex was engaged and his gf wanted a big church wedding). It was honestly the most horrible, embarrassing and totally intrusive experience that I have ever had. I was a lapsed Catholic at the time, but since then I have walked away from the church totally. I attend weddings and funerals out of respect for family, but that is it.

    If you don't plan to have a Catholic wedding, don't do the annulment. You will never be the same.
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  • I'm pretty sure it's only in the Catholic Church, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were some other churches that required this as well (Episcopal maybe?) Your best bet is to talk to the person officiating your wedding ceremony and ask if you need to provide any documentation of your divorce (divorce decree, court order, what have you). If you need an annulment or other kind of church document for your divorce, surely the officiant/pastor will tell you.
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_second-weddings_need-a-divorce-and-annulment?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:35Discussion:23d947af-af8c-4b44-b40f-45e18ee6442cPost:4a89afcb-9223-49a8-8248-d5a7c2dc97d7">Re: need a divorce AND annulment?!</a>:
    [QUOTE]Just if you intend to get married in the Catholic Church.
    Posted by right1thistime[/QUOTE]

    Unless you're Kris Humphries and Kim Kardashian ... I can't make this stuff up: <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/15/showbiz/kardashian-divorce/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/15/showbiz/kardashian-divorce/index.html</a>
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_second-weddings_need-a-divorce-and-annulment?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:35Discussion:23d947af-af8c-4b44-b40f-45e18ee6442cPost:aae0607c-aaec-40f0-b8ab-acc5e34f96a8">Re: need a divorce AND annulment?!</a>:
    [QUOTE]Yes, you only need both if you want to be married in a Catholic church. I went through the process several years ago (my ex was engaged and his gf wanted a big church wedding). <strong>It was honestly the most horrible, embarrassing and totally intrusive experience that I have ever had.</strong> I was a lapsed Catholic at the time, but since then I have walked away from the church totally. I attend weddings and funerals out of respect for family, but that is it. If you don't plan to have a Catholic wedding, don't do the annulment. You will never be the same.
    Posted by jennylee813[/QUOTE]

    (((HUGS))) I am SO sorry you went through all of that. 

    I was married the first time in the Catholic Church and, once our divorce was finalized (took 2 years!), I began the annulment process (collected the paperwork, identified my witnesses, etc.).  Then, I sat on my bed with all of that stuff for the better part of a weekend and decided, both for the sake of my child and for my sanity, not to proceed. I always thought it was one of the best decisions of my life. 

    Your testament, above, confirms that. Again, I am very sorry you had to endure such madness. (((HUGS)))
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_second-weddings_need-a-divorce-and-annulment?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:35Discussion:23d947af-af8c-4b44-b40f-45e18ee6442cPost:99875d23-e225-4cdc-b503-fbc014aa1d1a">Re: need a divorce AND annulment?!</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: need a divorce AND annulment?! : (((HUGS))) I am SO sorry you went through all of that.  I was married the first time in the Catholic Church and, once our divorce was finalized (took 2 years!), I began the annulment process (collected the paperwork, identified my witnesses, etc.).  <strong>Then, I sat on my bed with all of that stuff for the better part of a weekend and decided, both for the sake of my child and for my sanity, not to proceed. I always thought it was one of the best decisions of my life</strong>.  Your testament, above, confirms that. Again, I am very sorry you had to endure such madness. (((HUGS)))
    Posted by Lisa50[/QUOTE]


    Thanks Lisa50 - you certainly made the right call. The things that came out during that process will stay with me forever, and the most ironic part of it was that the church told the witnesses that they were speaking in confidence, yet we got to read the transcripts of everything that they said!

    I was also very confused by the fact that if an annulment means that the marriage never happened, shouldn't it mean that our kids never happened either? How do you explain that?

    Anyway, it's water under the proverbial bridge now, but I would suggest that no one go through the process because it will leave scars. Big ones.
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  • edited August 2012
    I chose not to even attempt an annulment, for a number of reasons, including fear ( at the time) of my xH.

    I wonder if you can agree to participate only if your answers are impounded?  My xH is now engaged, and he has spoken to the parish we were married in about getting some information- which they were unable to locate, so they called me to get the info. The info makes me think that he might be looking into an annulment.  I would only tell the truth, but I know he would deny it , and it would make him angry, particularly if his fiance heard about some of the things.  Since I have a permanent restraining order, I would probably choose to decline to participate if the results were going to be revealed to him. 
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_second-weddings_need-a-divorce-and-annulment?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:35Discussion:23d947af-af8c-4b44-b40f-45e18ee6442cPost:2696632d-2006-43ce-940c-908c569a0b97">Re: need a divorce AND annulment?!</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: need a divorce AND annulment?! : Thanks Lisa50 - you certainly made the right call. The things that came out during that process will stay with me forever, and the most ironic part of it was that the church told the witnesses that they were speaking in confidence, yet we got to read the transcripts of everything that they said! I was also very confused by the fact that<strong> if an annulment means that the marriage never happened, shouldn't it mean that our kids never happened either?</strong> How do you explain that? Anyway, it's water under the proverbial bridge now, but I would suggest that no one go through the process because it will leave scars. Big ones.
    Posted by jennylee813[/QUOTE]

    This was probably one of the few things my ex and I ever agreed on, EVER. He was raised Catholic, I wasn't, but he was never a practicing Catholic (Is that correct phrasing?). Two of my friends from High School married and divorced after 10-12 years. When he remarried, he married an amazing woman who was very active in Catholicism. He reached out to me and asked if I would meet with the diocese to help with the paperwork to annull his first marriage. I did, and it was a terribly uncomfortable experience for ME - I cannot imagine how invasive it must have felt for him. In their case, he and his ex sat down with their two girls and told them about the process - and the girls and parents found peace with looking at the regiment and not blaming each other. Of course, they are MUCH better friends and parents divorced from each other! It bothers me, deeply, when I read things like Lisahas shared, and know how much structured church-ism can hurt.
    ~~Mendi~~ ...Everyone has their price; mine's chocolate Photobucket
  • The church actually doesn't proclaim that the marriage never happened in an annulment.  What it says is that due to some fault ( not fault  as in blame, but fault like a fault that causes an earthquake), a sacramental marriage never happened. It very specifically says that children born as a result of the marriage are NOT made illegitimate as a result of the annulment.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_second-weddings_need-a-divorce-and-annulment?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:35Discussion:23d947af-af8c-4b44-b40f-45e18ee6442cPost:b9584650-18c5-4271-8cfc-16d316830de5">Re: need a divorce AND annulment?!</a>:
    [QUOTE]I chose not to even attempt an annulment, for a number of reasons, including fear ( at the time) of my xH. <strong>I wonder if you can agree to participate only if your answers are impounded?  </strong>My xH is now engaged, and he has spoken to the parish we were married in about getting some information- which they were unable to locate, so they called me to get the info. The info makes me think that he might be looking into an annulment.  I would only tell the truth, but I know he would deny it , and it would make him angry, particularly if his fiance heard about some of the things.  Since I have a permanent restraining order, I would probably choose to decline to participate if the results were going to be revealed to him. 
    Posted by right1thistime[/QUOTE]

    ^They told all of the witnesses that their answers would be kept in strictest of confidences, then once they were transcribed, both my ex-husband and I were permitted to read them. The reasoning was so that we could refute anything in the testimony. I wouldn't count on anything you say being kept confidential...

    The annulment can proceed without you giving any testimony yourself, if that makes it easier for you. You can choose not to participate and the church will proceed without your input. Honestly, it sounds like that would be for the best in your case (in any case, really - I don't think that this is something that anyone should go through).

    Basically, after mine was done, I got the impression that the party who pays for the annulment is the one the church chooses not to blame for the dissolution of the marriage. So if your ex is paying, no matter what happened between you, the church will see it as your fault.

    (Sorry if this sounds bitter, but I really want people to know what an awful process this is)
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  • I agree with all the warnings. The very word annulment makes me cringe. My ex wanted to get remarried in the church after our divorce, and he did the whole thing IN SECRET with the Vatican's approval since he found a way to have me declared unreachable or unable to participate, something like that. I only learned of it when I received a mailing declaring my marriage annulled along with pages of the most vile horrible lies about me from his friends - that are now on record forever with the Church. Anyway - needless to say I am having a civil ceremony this time, onward and upward, and not much more I can do but be glad the past is the past! :) 
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  • edited August 2012
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_second-weddings_need-a-divorce-and-annulment?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:35Discussion:23d947af-af8c-4b44-b40f-45e18ee6442cPost:41a8f77e-6830-46ad-9f1a-a04f5495bd0b">Re: need a divorce AND annulment?!</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: need a divorce AND annulment?! :  So if your ex is paying, no matter what happened between you, the church will see it as your fault. Posted by jennylee813[/QUOTE]<div>
    </div><div>I doubt I would choose to participate.  I would probably attach a copy of the permanent restraining order and highlight the part that says he cannot contact me directly or through a third party for any reason other than child visitation without it being a violation. That should shut them up.  And I don't really care what the Church decides is the fault.  I personally think that the marriage deserves to be annulled.  He never had any intention of the "forsake all others" vow.  I figure God & I know how things went down.  Which isn't to say I was without blame.  I don't think more than a slim minority of marriages fail due to the faults of only one of the parties. </div><div>
    </div><div>I joked with my SIL about annulment.  Her xH had obtained one (she had no interest in the Church), and I congratulated her on having her filthy soul wiped clean with the swipe of a pen in the hands of a priest.   ~Donna

    </div>
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: need a divorce AND annulment?! : I doubt I would choose to participate.  I would probably attach a copy of the permanent restraining order and highlight the part that says he cannot contact me directly or through a third party for any reason other than child visitation without it being a violation. That should shut them up.  And I don't really care what the Church decides is the fault.  I personally think that the marriage deserves to be annulled.  He never had any intention of the "forsake all others" vow.  I figure God & I know how things went down.  Which isn't to say I was without blame.  I don't think more than a slim minority of marriages fail due to the faults of only one of the parties.  I joked with my SIL about annulment.  Her xH had obtained one (she had no interest in the Church), and <strong><font color="#0000ff">I congratulated her on having her filthy soul wiped clean with the swipe of a pen in the hands of a priest.</font></strong>   ~Donna
    Posted by right1thistime[/QUOTE]

    Ba ha ha ha .... thanks for making me laugh. I'm glad I did not have any liquids in my mouth! *snort*
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_second-weddings_need-a-divorce-and-annulment?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:35Discussion:23d947af-af8c-4b44-b40f-45e18ee6442cPost:ed0a93d8-e973-46ce-9181-ecd32e4f77fd">Re: need a divorce AND annulment?!</a>:
    [QUOTE]I'm pretty sure it's only in the Catholic Church, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were some other churches that required this as well (Episcopal maybe?) Your best bet is to talk to the person officiating your wedding ceremony and ask if you need to provide any documentation of your divorce (divorce decree, court order, what have you). If you need an annulment or other kind of church document for your divorce, surely the officiant/pastor will tell you.
    Posted by Avion22[/QUOTE]The Episcopal Church does not require an annulment before remarriage.  The Roman Catholic Church is the only body of which I am aware that has such a requirement, although certain others (<em>e.g.</em>, Eastern Orthodox and Orthodox Judaism) have requirements that the parties to a civil divorce also have a separate religious divorce.

    I will also say that an Orthodox Jewish <em>get</em>, or religious divorce, is a lot less intrusive than what I have heard about a Roman Catholic annulment.  I had a <em>get</em> with my first marriage.  My ex and I joked that it was designed to get the parties to reconcile by getting them both so ticked with the rabbis that they would finally have something in common and get back together.  But in truth, it was nothing worse than several hours of boring listening to the rabbis proofread a document in Hebrew, letter by letter, backwards and forwards, over and over.
  • edited August 2012
    Maybe I'm one of the few people that had a positive experience with annulment. Though the process was long, it was eye-opening in a good way. Yes, it was uncomfortable to write out all that had lead up to that on paper, but it's also uncomfortable to sit and tell it to a therapist. I felt much better after getting it all out. My ex chose not to participate, and if he had it likely would not have mattered. In fact, the tribunal advocate told me that when one is directly hostile it can very often work against them and serve as evidence of the problems that existed. I also chose not to read any witness testimony. Had I wanted to, I would have had to write for permission and then drive to the office to read it- as it would not be allowed in anyone else's hands. The diocese kindly waived my fee. And now, FI and I are able to get married in our church- we're both practicing Catholics. It took about a year and a half and the most painful part was the waiting. Everything else was a relief. And my daughter is happy because now we can all recieve communion together, as a new family.  

    Some things are just worth a little discomfort.
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    Ovarian cyst lapro: '01, '04, '09 Conal biopsy: '01- results negative Dilation: '03 for cervical scarring Pcos test: '05, FSH and LH normal Mirena removed July '12 My Ovulation Chart
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_second-weddings_need-a-divorce-and-annulment?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:35Discussion:23d947af-af8c-4b44-b40f-45e18ee6442cPost:2696632d-2006-43ce-940c-908c569a0b97">Re: need a divorce AND annulment?!</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: need a divorce AND annulment?! : Thanks Lisa50 - you certainly made the right call. The things that came out during that process will stay with me forever, and the most ironic part of it was that the church told the witnesses that they were speaking in confidence, yet we got to read the transcripts of everything that they said! <strong>I was also very confused by the fact that if an annulment means that the marriage never happened, shouldn't it mean that our kids never happened either? How do you explain that?</strong> Anyway, it's water under the proverbial bridge now, but I would suggest that no one go through the process because it will leave scars. Big ones.
    Posted by jennylee813[/QUOTE]<div>
    </div><div>Feh my father had his annulled to marry his second wife...I had a COW, no...actually a whole farm when the priest told me that I couldn't join the catholic church.  *thud*  I asked why not and was advised that I did not "exist" in the eyes of the church due to the annulment.  I stood, and said if that is the case, then I will expect a check refunding me ALL of the money I have placed in the offeratory every week.  I'm now Lutheran.  </div><div>
    </div><div>But it is true if you wish to marry in the catholic church again, you must have the marriage annulled.

    </div>
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