Growing Pains! VENT

SoonToBeJennT

Sorry knotties, I'm just having a hard time figuring these things out...My FI and I are both trying to grow spiritually. I come from a totally secular house, while he comes from a Conservative home. We have both been involved in the Orthodox Jewish community from school, and have made some friends within that community. now, FI and I are NOT by any standards at an Orthodox level (yet). We were going to eat Kosher meals at the wedding. 100 out of the 130 people are not religious at all. 30 are Orthodox. My mother bought Kosher meals for the ones who are Kosher and figures we don't need to spend the money on the non Kosher people for Kosher food, especially since the non Kosher is the majority. Now the Rabbi is asking us why everything the isn't a wall separating the dancing. I am in no way on that level. And now the Rabbi is pretty much telling me that he will tell the Orthodox people not to come to the reception. Who is he to tell people they can't celebrate at my wedding?! I understand some of the very religious can't dance. But they can't come to the room? I am not at the level of separate dancing, my family doesn't even know what that means!  Sorry knotties, had to let some steam out! Thanks for giving me the opportunity to do so.

Danaz1

is your rabbi orthodox? We had an orthodox rabbi and he did not insist on seperate anything. I sounds to me like you should find a different rabbi who is more at the level of judiasm that you are comfortable with.

Rachiemoo

Well i am guessing your Rabbi is Orthodox? If that is the case then you should understand that many Rabbis do not want to officiate at a wedding [or other events] in which certain religious standards are not upheld. My Rabbi [who is Conservative] told us he did not officiate at weddings that did not serve only kosher food at the reception, so this is not an uncommon practice for Rabbis to do. (We had to serve kosher food anyways as my husband has many religious relatives even though my side does not keep kosher). DH's orthodox relatives still came to our wedding even though we had mixed seating and mixed dancing, they just did not take part in the dancing, so I don't think this necessarily will be a problem, but everyone has their own level of what they are and are not comfortable with. You probably need to discuss your Rabbi's expectations with him and see if you still want him to officiate. (The fact is that I assume he knew that you were still growing religiously and should have discussed these issues with you before agreeing to officiate).

BenandDina

I would have to say that regardless of one's level of religious observance, it is inappropriate to discourage a group of guests from attending the wedding.  That is a self-righteous and judgmental attitude and passive-aggressive behavior.  If your Rabbi felt so strongly about that, he should have said that he wouldn't be able to officiate your wedding, which would have been the fitting thing to do, as that would reflect his professional morals and ethics.  By saying that he will officiate but he will ask a group of guests not to come, he is not showing himself in the best light.  I would encourage you to have a conversation with him about his statement (potentially, including your parents and in-laws), and to consider the possibility of asking another Rabbi to officiate if he won't relent about the mechitza at the reception.  It is your wedding that should reflect you two as a couple at the level of observance that is respectful of all but comfortable for you, first and foremost.My Orthodox guests didn't participate in the dancing at my reception, but they enjoyed the kosher meals provided for them, the conversation and visiting with other guests at the reception.  In turn, when I attend their events, which include a mechitza and separate gender dancing space, I respect the boundaries they set.

slbriz34

Ditto my fellow knotties. First, I assume this rabbi will be officiating your wedding; if so, then he has the right to express his views and disappointment that the reception isn't to Orthodox standards.  As you aren't on that level of observance, yet, I'd suggest finding another rabbi that you both are comfortable with and won't have a problem with what you are planning. As a kind heads up to those who are Orthodox and attending your wedding, you should tell them that there will be mixed seating and dancing and while you know they don't share in those views, you hope they will attend your simcha anyway.  If they do great, if not then what can you do - but it should come from you and not your rabbi!  It's the proper, courteous thing to do. But don't stress; you know you can't please everyone all the time.  This is your and your FI's day; do what you can and just hope that all goes well in the end.  GL.

goldgold

I don't think it's fair for him to tell these people to come or not come to your wedding. I have Orthodox relatives. I know some of them won't come to our wedding (Conservative) for whatever reason, but my Aunt and Uncle will. My Aunt is loud and outgoing so she'll organize people for horahs so she can dance too. I think if these people want to be there, they will come. GL!

bonniebrett

i know that rabbis have influence over the ceremony, but wasn't aware they had a say in the reception! if you're not happy (whether he concedes to you or not in the end), i'd find a rabbi who didn't make me feel bad about my beliefs.

MoFree

I don't think I would be comfortable with a rabbi who is so judgmental officiating at my wedding. My suggestion would be to find someone who is comfortable with your level of observance and not dictate how your reception should be.

silversparks

It's not unusual for all rabbis, regardless of denomination, to dictate what they consider the basic religious requirements for them to officiate at a wedding, including the ceremony and reception.However, you also have the right to ask for this information up-front, and to choose another rabbi if you are uncomfortable with their demands. I know it can be intimidating, especially, if you're trying to do the right thing. What bothers me about the OP case is the rabbi's  behaviour towards guests - TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE! And for me, that would be a deal breaker, I'd be looking for another rabbi. At the very least, if I had a relationship with this rabbi I would be explaining that his behaviour was incredibly hurtful to me. OP - everything in my experience reassures me that your Orthodox friends and family who care about you and want to be with you and your FI on your day will be there. They may not eat, they may not dance, but they will absolutely show up to support you and give you love.

silversparks

I'm sorry, I just wanted to clarify - I meant to put "right thing" in quotes - I'm not advocating that there is a right or wrong way to do things, but I know that there can be a lot of stress around what people think is a "right" way and what happens when someone else prefers a different approach.

Rebecca Toriello

We are almost in the same situation you are in. My Fi is a secular Jew; i am a convert conservative. We are both envolved in the Orthodox Jewish community. Most of our guests do not eat kosher food; he has orthodox family members and we both have friends from Chabad, but if they dont come. Why pay for kosher? Kosher is double to triple the price per person. I found a several places that will allow us to bring in food for those 5-10 guests that require kosher food. At one place, and there are 2 rooms a small dining room, and a separate room for the DJ and dancing. The Chabad rabbi does not consider me to be Jewish even though I have lived as a Jew for over 12 years because I did not make an Orthodox conversion;I am not ready for that and neither is my FI

Rebecca Toriello

I just wanted to add money is an issue for us as far as having all kosher food at our reception, but i do want mixed dancing. We are probably going to have a conservative rabbi marry us, and will explain money is an issue regarding having all kosher food

lachlom

I think it's slightly unfair to say the Rabbi is judgmental. Would you call him Judgmental because he didn't like how you had a dairy wedding cake even though you are serving a kosher MEAT meal for the wedding? That is a serious breach of kashrus(kosher law), as is mixed dancing a serious breach of tznius and negiah.I understand you are making teshuva(and fully support it, I was raised secularly and made teshuva and am now Orthodox), and it's a long process for some and some things are difficult. Maybe it wouldn't be best to go with the Rabbi, and maybe try to find a Modern Orthodox Rabbi who is more on the liberal/progressive side of things. I wouldn't recommend a conservative Rabbi if you intend on being Orthodox, as it would be awful if that caused issues for you in the future about the validity of your marriage(it shouldn't, but just in case...).I would also wonder what your Rabbi says about the food situation. Are you sure you are getting kosher meals to the extent that your Orthodox guests will need? The food would have to be on separate(kosher, so probably disposable) dishware and with separate utensils, if it is meat they would not be able to partake in any dairy, including your wedding cake if you are having one. The food would have to come from a reliable source(not just your same caterer who says they do 'kosher' food which is most likely either kosher style, or not orthodox-level of kashrus), double wrapped in tinfoil and heated that way, and SERVED that way with the appropriate information available. I understand not wanting to pay so much for a fully kosher wedding, but just be careful.Some religious people wouldn't feel comfortable in the room with mixed dancing. Some would. Some wouldn't want to dance, but would be okay sitting and chatting with someone on the sidelines. Everyone's different, and that IS one thing I disagree with that the Rabbi said. He shouldn't tell them not to come, but they should be made aware in the event that it DOES make them uncomfortable.

SoonToBeJennT

Well, this is what I did.   I emailed all of the people attending the edding that have put down "Kosher" I have explained to them what is Kosher and what is not Kosher, and where that food will be. I will have all kosher Tables, so that any food that is placed on that table will only be Kosher. The wedding cake is Kosher Pareve. The first dance will be separated by men and women, but without the mechitza. I gave them all of this information and asked them if I should expect them for a meal. I still don't think it's right for him to say he will tell people not to stay. Hopefully this is enough. FI ad I are thinking about the possibility of having the mechitza for just the Hora, so everyone could at least have 1 dance. But I don't know how much craziness it will be to have a wall, and remove it the next second.

slbriz34

Instead of a wall, see if your reception site can put up some curtain or other nice drapping that can easily be taken down.  If you can do this without too much cost, then that would be super accommodating on your part (considering, again, we are talking about a very small fraction of your total guests). That you told your guests what the meal and dance situations are is plenty, imho (and if your Rabbi still attempts to circumvent this, despite your protests, then there isn't much you can do).  If this is still not good, then you did your best.  I am sure you'll get a few that might have a problem but I wouldn't be surprised if everyone else is okay and comes.  GL.