Community› Cultural Wedding Boards› Jewish Weddings
Jewish Weddings
New Discussion
Options

Question about the Kippah?

sevatiparisevatipari
First Comment
in Jewish Weddings
This is my first post on this board.  I am not Jewish but I have a friend who is and she's getting married next year.  I was reading her website and it asked for everyone to wear a kippah (male or female) and that she'd have them available for us to wear and keep (as well as lace for women).  She also stated that appropriate hats would work for those who feel uncomfortable wearing one (i.e. top hat, bowler, or fedora, since her wedding is black tie optional).  Now I personally will wear it out of respect of my friend and her religion but my DF (will be DH by the date of her wedding) wants to know why he has to wear one.  As in what is the religious significance behind it?  I couldn't tell him because I didn't know. 

My DF is not comfortable wearing the kippah since he's:

A) not Jewish
B) not religious

but he would be willing to wear the hat.  I may decide to wear a hat to make him comfortable what would be appropriate?  A hat like they wore to the Royal Wedding (though definitely NOT like Princess Beatrice's...what was she thinking?!)?
Report Reply to Post

Re: Question about the Kippah?

  • Options
    jessicabessicajessicabessica member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    In my mind, men that are not Jewish wear a kippah in a Jewish house of worship or during a Jewish ceremony to show respect.  Like many things in Judaism, there are multiple origins for head coverings for men, including biblical and Talmudic reasons.   

    Is your friend getting married in a synagogue?  What is her level of observance?  Is she requesting that men cover their head for the entire ceremony and reception, or just the ceremony? 

    I don't see it as an overtly religious gesture when done out of respect.  If I am willing to go into an area of religious significance to another religion, I am willing to comply with their dress code requests (like covering shoulders to go into a Baha'i garden).  I would suggest to your FI that he find a hat he likes (keeping in mind that at a formal event, a baseball cap is not really appropriate) or wear one of their kippot.  If you want to just wear the lace that they provide, I would fold twice and pin it to the top/back of your head--I think that's a nice way to wear them. 
    Report Reply
  • Options
    Bonzo2011Bonzo2011 member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its First Comment
    edited December 2011
    Kippot are mostly a sign of respect, like PP said. If your fiance would be more comfortable with a hat, then I think that's perfectly acceptable.

    But maybe do a little research together so that you both understand the significance. I think that would make it less awkward for him. The "For Dummies" line of books has a "Judaism for Dummies" that is pretty good at explaining the common customs in a way that anyone can understand. (My FMIL is reading it now actually, and it's making her very excited that we're having a Jewish wedding!) If you read the chapter on weddings before hand, then you'll be prepared for what you're seeing and you will understand what is happening and why.
    Report Reply
  • Options
    reebsreebsreebsreebs member
    First Anniversary First Comment
    edited December 2011
    Kippot (plural of kippah) are a custom, not law (judisim differentiates between the two). As such, they are not an explicit sign of faith (like the tallis- fringed garment would be- and a non jew would be prohibited from wearing one). Jewish custom has people cover their hair or head for modesty (a lot of married Jewish women wear head coverings, as well as most men). If he was a tourist in a foreign house of worship and was asked to cover his head- would he?  He should do so at the wedding for the same reasons. The kippah will not signal to anyone that he is either religous or Jewish, it will signal that he respects the bride and groom enough to respect their tradition.
    Report Reply
  • Options
    tenofcups4metenofcups4me member
    5 Love Its Combo Breaker First Comment
    edited December 2011
    Since she clearly asked for people to wear head coverings and stated that either the kippah or the hat is ok, I think it's really his call which he'd rather wear. But I would wear one of the other as a sign of respect. (FWIW, I've never attended a Jewish wedding where women were asked to cover their heads, and most of the ones I attend, the kippah is optional for men as well. But if asked to cover my head, I would.)

    Jewish custom has people cover their hair or head for modesty (a lot of married Jewish women wear head coverings, as well as most men).

    I think "a lot" is an overstatment. I know orthodox women do, but I've never met a reform woman who did. I don't know where conservative women fall on that spectrum, though I would imagine it's a mix.


    Report Reply
  • Options
    sevatiparisevatipari
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    The site states that men are asked to cover their heads and that kippot will be provided.  I asked her and she said a top hat or another fancy hat would work.  It also states that married women are asked to cover their head though unmarried women did not have to.  I think it's just for the ceremony not the reception though I'm not sure.  She's getting married in the rose garden of Atrium 1786 (it's a historic house/inn in Maryland) but her Fi's families more orthodox than hers (mainly cause her father's not Jewish) so they're having a more orthodox wedding.  My FI is willing to wear either/or he just wants to know the religious significance and if it would be polite to ask friend's FI to remove his kippah for our ceremony (I said IMO (knowing my friend and her FI) they probably wouldn't mind and he'd do it.  Another Jew maybe not)....so it's just a modesty thing?  And I will definitely check out Judaism for Dummies.  LOL I'm also going to have to buy a new dress that meets the modesty requirements.  Most of my formal dresses are sleeveless.  Plus Maryland in October?  Probably pretty chilly least in the evening.
    Report Reply
  • Options
    boston88boston88
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    For your friend's wedding, as other posters stated, it is a sign of respect.

    Unless I read your most recent post incorrectly, no you should not ask your friend's fiancee to remove his Kippah at your wedding.  If he wears it on a normal basis, it would be disrespectful to ask him to remove it.
    Report Reply
  • Options
    sevatiparisevatipari
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    That's what I thought.  I told FI I think her FI would be ok with it (just because of the type of guy he is) but that IDK if he's orthodox enough to wear it on a normal basis.  I'd love to be asking my friend this but shes crazy busy with wedding planning and trying to rewrite someone elses lesson plans for next school year lol.  She's a substitute teacher and she got a position taking over for a teacher who's due to have a baby in September and planning to take the year off.  He also asked what they would do to show respect to our religion (he's semi Christian, I'm Pagan who was raised Chistian).  I told him IDK cause it's been so long since I've been to a Protestant Christian church service IDR what goes on.  I know Catholic wise they'd do the same thing of dressing modestly (i.e. no shoulders showing, skirts at least knee length) but for the Pagan ceremony they'd wear ceremonial robes if required and eat of the cake and drink of the ale (using the term ale loosely of course). 
    Report Reply
  • Options
    tenofcups4metenofcups4me member
    5 Love Its Combo Breaker First Comment
    edited December 2011
    Wow, sounds like your FH is really looking for a quid pro quo here. I don't get it. I would imagine if your religion or ceremony called for something outside your friends' norm that wasn't directly in conflict with their belief system they'd do it -- for example, I'm happy to stand when others do at a Catholic ceremony as a sign of respect but I won't go up for communion.

    In any case, if your friend wears a kippah on an everyday basis (I can't quite tell if he does from your post), it would be extraordinarily disrespectful to ask him to remove it. I can't think of any way for you to take offense by someone wearing one, though it reads as if your FH is looking for a way.

    Re the dress, you can always cover a sleeveless dress with a dressy sweater and call it a day.
    Report Reply
  • Options
    sevatiparisevatipari
    First Comment
    edited December 2011

    I think FI is being difficult just to be difficult to pick on me, he does that from time to time.  It drives me nuts cause then he gets upset cause I'm mad at him.  Um, Hello?  You started it and you knew it would make me mad so why do it? And IDK if friends FI wears 1 on a regular basis the first time I'll actually get to meet him will be my wedding.  The only way I could see offense taken is if it was the National Anthem (cause ppl remove their hats) but if it's worn for religious purposes it's not considered a hat.  And yeah I could wear a dressy sweater but it gives me a good excuse to buy a new outfit lol and I'll take any excuse I can get.

    Report Reply
  • Options
    tenofcups4metenofcups4me member
    5 Love Its Combo Breaker First Comment
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_jewish-weddings_question-kippah?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:399Discussion:c662c73f-5566-4a09-a6c7-08425b9b03c7Post:e11530f3-af76-4960-ab6a-807eb8f293d8">Re: Question about the Kippah?</a>:
    [QUOTE]  And yeah I could wear a dressy sweater but it gives me a good excuse to buy a new outfit lol and I'll take any excuse I can get.
    Posted by sevatipari[/QUOTE]

    Ah, I misunderstood -- I thought you didn't want to buy a new dress. Yes, I'm always up for a good excuse to go shopping too <img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif" border="0" alt="Wink" title="Wink" />
    Report Reply
  • Options
    boston88boston88
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    <div><div style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10px;background-color:initial;background-image:none;background-attachment:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;color:#1f1f1f;font:normal normal normal 11px/14px Arial, sans-serif;text-align:left;line-height:normal;">I have to say I am blown away by your FI's response to your friend's fiancee wearing a yarmulke.  It is not a hat, it is a religious garmet.  Asking someone to remove it would be <em>almost </em>equivalent to asking someone to not wear a cross necklace, but much worse.  That's the closest I can think of to how offensive it would be to ask him not to wear it.</div><div style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10px;background-color:initial;background-image:none;background-attachment:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;color:#1f1f1f;font:normal normal normal 11px/14px Arial, sans-serif;text-align:left;line-height:normal;">
    </div><div style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10px;background-color:initial;background-image:none;background-attachment:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;color:#1f1f1f;font:normal normal normal 11px/14px Arial, sans-serif;text-align:left;line-height:normal;">Tenofcups put it well:</div></div><div>
    </div>In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_jewish-weddings_question-kippah?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:399Discussion:c662c73f-5566-4a09-a6c7-08425b9b03c7Post:dcc48d01-1f6e-4857-a0e2-45cb3b79bb0f">Re: Question about the Kippah?</a>:<div>[QUOTE]Wow, sounds like your FH is really looking for a quid pro quo here. I don't get it. I would imagine if your religion or ceremony called for something outside your friends' norm that wasn't directly in conflict with their belief system they'd do it -- for example, I'm happy to stand when others do at a Catholic ceremony as a sign of respect but I won't go up for communion. In any case, if your friend wears a kippah on an everyday basis (I can't quite tell if he does from your post), it would be extraordinarily disrespectful to ask him to remove it. I can't think of any way for you to take offense by someone wearing one, though it reads as if your FH is looking for a way. 
    Posted by tenofcups4me[/QUOTE]

    </div>
    Report Reply
  • Options
    reebsreebsreebsreebs member
    First Anniversary First Comment
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_jewish-weddings_question-kippah?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:399Discussion:c662c73f-5566-4a09-a6c7-08425b9b03c7Post:e11530f3-af76-4960-ab6a-807eb8f293d8">Re: Question about the Kippah?</a>:
    [QUOTE]I think FI is being difficult just to be difficult to pick on me, he does that from time to time.  It drives me nuts cause then he gets upset cause I'm mad at him.  Um, Hello?  You started it and you knew it would make me mad so why do it? And IDK if friends FI wears 1 on a regular basis the first time I'll actually get to meet him will be my wedding.  <strong>The only way I could see offense taken is if it was the National Anthem (cause ppl remove their hats) </strong>but if it's worn for religious purposes it's not considered a hat.  And yeah I could wear a dressy sweater but it gives me a good excuse to buy a new outfit lol and I'll take any excuse I can get.
    Posted by sevatipari[/QUOTE]


    Jews who wear a kippah all the time dont take it off for the national anthem.

    TSA doesn't make people take off religous head coverings. Why would you?
    Report Reply
  • Options
    penaltyshotpenaltyshot
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_jewish-weddings_question-kippah?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:399Discussion:c662c73f-5566-4a09-a6c7-08425b9b03c7Post:e11530f3-af76-4960-ab6a-807eb8f293d8">Re: Question about the Kippah?</a>:
    [QUOTE]The only way I could see offense taken is if it was the National Anthem (cause ppl remove their hats) but if it's worn for religious purposes it's not considered a hat.
    Posted by sevatipari[/QUOTE]
    Jews are not required (nor is anyone else) to remove a hat for a national anthem. It is not a hat at all. It is a symbol of a person's faith and beliefs.
    If your FI wants retribution for being asked nicely to wear a kippah, I am sad for you.
    Report Reply
  • Options
    jessicabessicajessicabessica member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    Question--I noticed that the OP's friend is also requesting that married women cover their hair.  I'm married, and I don't cover my hair, and I'm not sure how I feel about this request.  But I don't have a problem with asking all men to wear a kippah during a service or wearing otherwise modest dress (knees and shoulders--maybe elbows--covered), so I'm not sure if I'm just being inconsistent.  Thoughts?  

    And, on the OP's question, with the new info, I say your FI is just being a PITA about this.  This isn't someone asking him to adopt Jewish customs, this someone asking him to show respect for their customs.  
    Report Reply
  • Options
    smilygrl17smilygrl17
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_jewish-weddings_question-kippah?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:399Discussion:c662c73f-5566-4a09-a6c7-08425b9b03c7Post:03ae3cf8-54a8-48b6-9c01-e385d53299a3">Re: Question about the Kippah?</a>:
    [QUOTE]Question--I noticed that the OP's friend is also requesting that married women cover their hair.  I'm married, and I don't cover my hair, and I'm not sure how I feel about this request.  But I don't have a problem with asking all men to wear a kippah during a service or wearing otherwise modest dress (knees and shoulders--maybe elbows--covered), so I'm not sure if I'm just being inconsistent.  Thoughts?   And, on the OP's question, with the new info, I say your FI is just being a PITA about this.  This isn't someone asking him to adopt Jewish customs, this someone asking him to show respect for their customs.  
    Posted by jessicabessica[/QUOTE]

    OP mentioned that her friends FI was more orthodox(or his family was), and in most orthodox circles, or even in conservative (I think) married women cover their hair. If not all the time, at least during religious ceremonies, including weddings. In a sense, it is a modesty issue the same as how your dress would be modest. At least IMO. I don't think you're being inconsistent on your opinion though. I know people who wear shorts and short sleeves yet cover their hair on a regular basis. That, to me, is inconsistent, but I guess to each his (or her) own and you do what you're comfortable with.
    Report Reply
  • Options
    sevatiparisevatipari
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    Yeah he was just being a PITA.  After I got mad at him and didn't speak to him for an hour (for his own good so I wouldn't say something mean) he apoligized and said, "You know I'm just picking on you right?"  *rolls eyes* He knows things like this piss me off yet he can't just be serious.  I think he mainly does it cause he thinks I'm hot when I'm mad...I'll never understand male logic.

    [QUOTE]The only way I could see offense taken is if it was the National Anthem (cause ppl remove their hats)<strong> but if it's worn for religious purposes it's not considered a hat.</strong>[/QUOTE]

    As you can see I stated that it's not a hat and it's for religious purposes.  I know it's not considered the same thing I was just stating that that was the closest thing I could come to where it WOULD be disrespectful because people remove their hats during the Anthem as a SIGN of RESPECT.  And FI doesn't want retribution for him having to wear a kippah....he was just being a smart a$$ who thought he was being funny.  We've been together 3 years he should know by now Religion and Politics...those are 2 things you DON'T joke about around me.

    And Idk about the head covering for women...I know my friend covered hers the 1 passover I went to with her because she was leading the sader (sp?) since she was the only Jew present (it was when she lived by herself in an apartment).
    Report Reply
  • Options
    jessicabessicajessicabessica member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    With the headcovering for women, at first I thought you were saying that your friend wanted women to cover their heads as an egal move (if men have to, women should, too)--especially since you mentioned the lace kippot, and I didn't think that those were usually used by women covering their hair for modesty reasons.  Then you had the explanation about it being for married women only and for modesty reasons, and I was a little confused.  

    I grew up Conservative, but I've been to (mostly modern) Orthodox shuls, and I haven't seen any request that married women cover their hair if they don't already choose to do so, which some women don't.  
    Report Reply
  • Options
    sevatiparisevatipari
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    yeah idk her moves behind that one.  though knowing my friend lol it was an egal move, she's as feminist as they come.
    Report Reply
  • Options
    2dBride2dBride member
    5 Love Its First Anniversary Combo Breaker First Comment
    edited December 2011
    We had kippot available for anyone (male or female) who wanted to wear one (although as it was a Reform ceremony, it was not mandatory).  The people who got most excited about them seemed to be the nonJews.  For the Jews, having a special kippah available for a wedding was seen as sort of standard.  The nonJews, by contrast, often responded with an excited, "I get to keep this?"
    Anniversary
    Our wedding bio page (including vendor reviews) and items for sale
    Report Reply
This discussion has been closed.
Choose Another Board
Search Boards