Civil "elopement" and Orthodox Conversion

boaznruth

Hello Everyone,

I've been studying for an Orthodox conversion for a little over 2 years now.  We've reached the point where we really can't wait any longer for the civil marriage part.  (I have 2 children and that, plus health insurance, etc...)  I'm a little sad that we will have to have a civil ceremony, but there's no telling when the conversion process will complete, so we are planning to elope (with the blessing of our families) in a couple of months, right after Pesach.

We are planning a simple civil ceremony on the beach with our two children (from a previous marriage) and an officiant.  We're trying to decide which traditions might be appropriate to include, understanding that eventually when the conversion process is completed, we will have to have an Orthodox wedding.  Still, we want this to be a meaningful event for us since we've waited over 3 years for it.

Any ideas?  We are thinking of breaking a glass at the end to be made into a mezuzah for our bedroom doorway and including some verses of tehillim, but are planning to avoid anything that might be halakhically questionable.  My sponsoring Rabbi for conversion has Ok'ed this.

Thank you!

imimahoney

Honestly, I think most of the typical traditions are fine.

While you won't sign a ketubah (since you will do that after you convert) I certainly think you could still do the seven blessings. Since you are doing something more informal it might be a really nice way to incorporate your children and guests.. have them read certain blessing, etc. 

boaznruth

Thank you for the reply!

At this point, we're thinking the only tradition we will likely keep a part of the ceremony (which is going to be very brief and avoid any oaths or such that might be problematic) will be breaking a glass at the end.

The more we've both thought about it, the more we've thought that it might be best to keep the two occasions completely separate.  This is our civil wedding and one day, after conversion, we'll have a Jewish one.

We are planning on each reciting a couple lines that express how we feel about each other and including the children and a couple of lines asking Hashem to watch over this family that he has gathered together and help us to continue to grow together.  I think in lieu of vows, it will be a simple, "Do you x, take y, to be your lawfully wedded wife/husband."  Simple I do's and then by the power invested in me by the state, I pronounce you man and wife.

I think we can still make it a special moment while saving everything else for the Jewish wedding rather that risking "diluting" anything by doing it twice.

As far as breaking the glass...I plan on making it into a mezuzah case and you can never have too many of those!  

Thank you again...I feel like I'm kind of having to forge my own path here.

montanabounding

This post really struck me - have you married yet?

I was in the process of studying for a conversion (Conservative) when my child's father came back into my life after several years. As he has no intention of converting - but does not really practice his faith, and has no objections with me raising our child or future children in the faith or following it with me - I wasn't certain on how to proceed, or if I'd even be allowed to continue with the conversion seeing as I would have an interfaith marriage anyway. I haven't met with my cantor or rabbi since that point due to a myriad of life changes (several months across the country, moving, etc), and I'm a bit afraid to broach the subject with them and be told that I can't complete the conversion.

I feel as though I'm having to forge my own path myself. Best of luck to you and your family.

boaznruth

We're getting married this Sunday in a very small, simple, civil ceremony. : I have a friend who was able to convert Conservative with a nonJewish spouse who was/is uninterested in conversion. However, she is unable to convert Orthodox. Orthodox Rabbis view a couple as a single unit for the purposes of conversion. Both have to be equally observant. A Jewish spouse/ partner must be observant and a nonJewish spouse has to be converting as well. There is a support group for Orthodox conversion candidates on Yahoo, if you are interested. It can be a very long, difficult process and it's good to have a place to ask questions and get support.

montanabounding

Oh, no - I wouldn't be interested/able to convert Orthodox. My home temple is Conservative and we found a Conservative temple in the area where we will live post-wedding (cross-country from where I live now). I definitely want to follow some of the Orthodox traditions, but as a Conservative. My worry is that if I say, "I still want to go ahead with the conversion, but now I'm getting married, and he will support me and keep our household kosher etc but he is not interested in conversion," that they'll say that I can't do it.

I'm so glad for you! I hope that married life brings you joy that will only increase when you marry formally with your temple.

boaznruth

I believe, at least if my friend's situation is any indication, that you should still be able to convert conservative. I would guess your Rabbi would know for sure and it would likely be a good idea to sit down with him as soon as you can so that you can make an informed decision. Good luck to you whichever direction you choose. :