The Future is Scary! Anyone else worried about what comes after graduation? (sorry, a bit long)

nefariousmango

I'm looking at graduate schools, and I'm a bit panicked!

I love the idea of vet school, and there's a great one just North of us but also just far enough away that we'd have to move.  Mike loves his job, and he's positioned really well in terms of job security and potential for advancement, and I hate to ask him to start all over again somewhere new!  Luckily he's a software engineer, so jobs aren't too hard to come by, and I know he wouldn't whine about moving if it's to further my education.

The other issue is, I really want to have kids at some point but the grad programs that really interest me are at least a 5 year commitment.  By vet school, I'm talking about a DVM/PhD in oncology program (you get the DVM, MS, and PhD all in 5-7 years).  I also love pathology, which would involve med school and then grad school (panic!) or just plain ol' research, which is "just" 5-6 years of grad school.  I know if I do pathology I'll be in my mid-30s before I would have time for kids, and if I do research I would have to either switch fields or take a year off to be pregnant (our lab is filled with some of the strongest carcinogens in existence and I'm exposed to nasty things all day long- not great for fetal development!). 

Does anyone else have these anxieties?  What are your plans?  How does this sort of thing work for you and your partner?

aggiebug

hey obviously I do not have the same situation as you, but I am in vet school down here in Texas and understand some of your fears.  What type of research are you doing now? do you like it?

As far as pathology goes, you can do a pathology residency/internship after recieving your DVM.  It would be 4 yrs of vet school followed by the internship/residency program.  What would you want to do with a pathology specialization?  What do you want to do with your PhD in oncology? If you got your DVM do you want to see patients or do mostly research?

I will say vet school does not leave you much time for a relationship (ask my FI! he has put up with ALOT from me these last few years) Med school will do the same thing.  And both are expensive.

FutureMrsRyan

well - i am not going to grad school right away.  I'm applying next fall, hoping to attend the fall of 2011.

too much is going on in my life right now and i really want a year off just to enjoy being married and stuff.

though - grad school will only take me a year because of my advanced degree program in social work.  so i'm not too worried about that becoming an interferance in my real life. 

i'm more scared about graduating and still not being able to find a job.  thank you lovely economy.

SarahinRichmond

I am definitely feeling the anxiety about graduating. I'm in my last year of law school. I worked at the city prosecutor's office this summer and will be back there as an intern in the spring. (In VA third year law stuents can practice with supervision of a lawyer) My boss said he can't make any promises since the economy is so bad but that they are very interested in having me there after I pass the bar. It's certainly better than nothing but a guarantee would be awesome. I will have A LOT of loans to pay back!

Fortunately FI's job is very secure (he's a cop) so we're going to do ok until I pass the bar.

sammichele

I'm definitely worried as well.  I have a small ray of hope in that the internship I'm at right now is losing quite a few people and even though there is a hiring freeze they are looking into maybe hiring someone part time.  Otherwise I don't know where I would turn.  I'd really like to take a year off before grad school but I don't know if that's a good idea at this point.  I also worry about having time for babies - I know that you don't HAVE to make a choice between career and children but family comes first for me and if I could spend more time at home once I have children I would really love to do that - it just seems difficult.

aggiebug

Sarah I have heard really bad things about the job market for law student entering the job market.  I have a few friends in school and several decide not to go because the market is so bad.  I am sorry you are having to start out in that   I hope your internship will get you where you want!  good luck

SarahinRichmond

Yeah it's definitely not the best time to be graduating from law school. Everyone is feeling the pressure of too many lawyers and not enough jobs.

nefariousmango

Aggiebug- I work in a molecular genetics lab, we are looking at new cancer drugs trying to figure out what genes are being targeted by the different drugs.  In part, this will help make sure patients get treatments that will actually help them, but we're more interested in figuring out the pathways related to cell death (apoptosis, senescence, and impermanent cell cycle arrest) and then working on restoring key tumor suppressor genes (like p53).  As an undergrad, I'm transforming bacteria with shRNAs and such, and if I ever get my clones to survive I'll be working on a project involving a mediator module.  I love being in the lab, I wish I had more time to dedicate so I could actually get something done (transforming takes 3 long days, which means I'm on campus from the wee hours until the wee hours Monday-Thursday  and then setting up again Friday.Sunday so I can start again... at least in grad school my focus would be research, not retarded core courses!

I like what I do, and the only reason I'd do vet instead of med is that I find pediatric cancers fascinating, but I get really depressed by all the families they affect and I don't think I could handle that as a career.   I like the pathologies of cancers, looking at the biopsies and doing genetic screening etc, and there doesn't seem to be much of a demand for that in the animal health world :-(  so, maybe a large animal practice would suit me better (I also volunteer at a horse rescue and have been around horses since before I could walk).  The nice thing about a DVM/PhD program is that the PhD school pays for vet school AND gives you a stipend for living expenses- usually around $30,000 a year so it's actually enough to count as income!  Same with grad school in research, in terms of paying you instead of you paying them.  It's really a win-win, and I think the only reason med and dvm programs don't offer it is because researchers don't make any money ever, but vets and drs (supposedly) do.

It's such an awful time to be graduating, I'm just thankful that FI has a steady job and I have plenty of options to help pay for school!

moshi's paw

i'm in a PhD program through the veterinary school at my university.  i'm working on developing a vaccine for a bacteria that causes massive issues and predominantly death for this zoonotic pathogen. 

while that sounds sexy (at least to me because i'm a nerd, haha), it's a HUGE committment, the biggest i've ever signed on forbefore FI asked me to marry him.  FI and I started our relationship long-distance, and he knew what the score was as far as my 5-6 year servitude to my program going into this.  he sold his house, one that he had spent almost a decade making his and perfect, and moved in with me at the beginning of october.  we both realized that to make our relationship work, with our happily-ever-after, that major moves and life changes needed to happen.  it's not easy.  grad school should never be easy, because if it is you're cheating yourself and wasting precious time. 

as far as stipends go, the price is usually fixed to accomodate for cost of living and not much else, regardless of where you are.  when i interviewed the stipends ranged from $17k to $35k, but that was looking in places in the middle of nowhere to NYC.  saving for a family isn't going to happen from your side of the scenario.  my stipend here is about $20k, and that's enough to pay the mortgage, utilities, and have enough for a little instant-gratification fun.  the way They figure it, if you're in school, especially for a PhD or a dual degree, you're not supposed to be going on shopping sprees or galavanting around the world (unless they send you to a conference), or even starting a family, and they try their best to hone you in on your work.  plus, as far as the bigger life changes go liek children, if you're working with teratogens or pathogens that are dangerous (like BSL-3 stuff like Brucella abortus) and can be vertically transmitted, you pretty much have to sign a contract saying you're not going to alter your immune status (the nice legal way of saying getting pregnant) while you're working with this stuff. 

if i could be out in industry now, doing what i want to do- which is lead a research team or at least significantly contribute to a great research project somewhere, i'd do it.  but the nature of the beast for biology is that unless you have more letters after your name, all you'll really get is second authorship on most papers.  there's a lot going on, especially if you're in your last year of undergrad and you're thinking about wedding stuff, and choosing a path when there are TONS in front of you is difficult, especially when the next rest stop along one of those paths seems like 25 light years away. 

nefariousmango

Lol, those contracts are hilarious!  Our lab shares the autocalve on our floor with a lab that works with antibiotic-resistant samonella, so it's like "you will not hold the ____ lab responsible for any illness contracted while you work here, it is your responsibility to know your immune status and not ingest anything in our lab, even if you do not sign this contract, by entering this lab space you have knowingly placed yourself at risk..."

Cost of living is really high here, but I know if I went to the middle of nowhere the stipend would be lower.  I hadn't really given the difference a ton of thought... it's definitely something to keep in mind!  This year I made less than $10,000 and spent all of it on school, so really any income would help us out!  We're just lucky, as I said before, that FI's job can support both of us (and we don't mind living simply).

It's finals week, I hurt my ankle yesterday and can't walk up the stairs to the lab for the next week so I don't know what I'm going to do about my clones, I don't even want to think about getting to finals on crutches, and thinking about six more years of this makes me want to cry!  Maybe I'll pretend I'm an english major and only have two years of grad school to do...

aggiebug

ooo moshi what pathogen are you working on if you don't mind me asking?

Both you and nefarious's work sound super interesting to me (but then again I could be a nerd)  I commend you both, and am glad I am not doing it.  While I like reading about research work and medical discoveries I have no interest in being in a lab!

good luck to both of you on finals and your research.

Nefarious, I can completely understand what you are so overwhelmed by all these decisions.  Can you talk to your supervisor and see what they reccomend? or at least another female superior to discuss your fears about family planning and continuing education?  From the litlte that you have told me (and that is very little in the grand scheme of things) I think a PhD or the research graduate program are a long commitment and a lot of work but both are very rewarding and seem to highlight your interests.  ( i know I narrowed it down a lot huh?)  I think the med school would be very expensive, a longer commitment and it would get you to the same point as the other to degrees.  It seems to me DVMs in research have the same respect as MDs and are actually very desireable since 95% of research is actually done on animals not human patients.

LauraT25

I can't really help you choose, but I will say that there is a huge increase in DVM/PhD's in the research workforce.  They are very desirable in the field of comparative pathology, or other such terms, and I used to work with a whole floor of PIs that were DVM/PhDs, and they did far more interesting work than the regular PhDs I work with now.

Also, to comment on this:
at least in grad school my focus would be research, not retarded core courses!

Don't hold your breath.  The first 1-2 years of grad school is a complete waste of time in courses, trust me.  And the hours don't get better.  Not trying to scare you off, just being realistic.  As far as the stipend goes, my FI and I are able to save $500 a month each; it's not HUGE, and we're definitely living simply, but we have a car, and do occasionally get to splurge.  If you go out a lot (i.e. spend a lot on booze) you'll have less wiggle room.

Best of luck on your choice!

cutz3

As far as kids and school. 

My best friend just got married (the beginning of her junior year of college). I really admire her. One thing that she has taught me is that life doesn't have to happen in a series of neat steps. She hasn't allowed her dreams to compete with each other. Just because she's in school doesn't mean she can't get married, or renovate a house, or have a child. It doesn't always work well, and things get mess, but that's life. 

Just don't lock yourself into the social time line and live your life one step at a time. 

nefariousmango

Cutz3- I completely agree with your friend's stance on life, but it's not school and kids I'm worried about.  The type of research I do prevents me from being pregnant.  You can see some more of the thread for details, but it's not uncommon to sign a release as part of your job packet saying you won't get pregant as long as you work with them, and if you do, you take full responsibility for any resulting birth defects.

I love what I do, and I don't let being busy with school and lab work stop me from doing the other things I love/ want to do, but I also know the unique set of risks that come with my chosen career...

We joke in the lab that we'd better cure cancer before we all die of it!

nefariousmango

Oh and Aggiebug- there are two female post-docs in our lab and one just quit to have kids, and the other hates kids.  There's another lab on our floor that has a lot of women, but they're all on the younger end (like I am) and single.  One of the other undergrads in my lab just got married, but they're only 20 and I don't think they're thinking about kids in the near future either!

clairissad

How far North is the vet school? Too far to move halfway there and both of you commute?

nefariousmango

Yeah, it would be a 2 hour commute each way at best,and there's really nothing between the two that isn't too far East or West to make it a 2+ hour commute for at least one of us!  The problem is there's only one real highway that connects the vet school to everywhere else South of it, so you have to head East to the highway, then South, then back West to his office.