Calling all Jews

Moneypenny424

I'll add that I don't think it's the end of the world for you not to change it.  I would, in your shoes, but I wouldn't have a problem attending a wedding on Yom Kippur either.

Simply Fated

Please stop comparing Christmas with Yom Kippur.
One is a day of celebration of the birth of Christ. The other is a solemn day of atonement. It's like comparing apples and idiots.

Being raised Jewish has nothing to do with knowing when Yom Kippur is. It's just like Easter, the date shifts. Sometimes it's in March, sometimes it's in April. Not all Catholics or Christians know what day Easter falls on this year. And not all Jews know when Yom Kippur is. This is why we have calendars.

Honestly, the OP already has her mind made up, so it doesn't really matter what anyone says.
But....
I'd be hurt if someone I cared about held their wedding on Yom Kippur. Hurt, but not offended. It is what it is. And, yes, I would be hurt because it doesn't take an idiot to look at a calendar and see before hand that I wouldn't be able to make it. Sure, you can hold it on any day and run the risk of someone not being able to come, but when you have the information out there, right in front of you on paper "Yom Kippur falls on this day and so any Jew you invite most likely won't attend," it looks like you couldn't care less whether or not any of your Jewish friends could attend.

RachNRich

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_calling-jews?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5fcf0604-0f02-493e-b1f0-9a5de86393b6Post:c1555182-cba1-43b1-beb5-3bfa9e1fe3b5">Re: Calling all Jews</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Calling all Jews : Except that it wouldn't be offensive to have a wedding on July 4 or Christmas Eve because those are days of celebration already, not atonement. This is similar to girls who wanted their weddings on 9/11. Say the OP had a grandmother who was affected by 9/11 and was upset the OP chose that day for her wedding.
Posted by msmerymac[/QUOTE]

<div>I get where you're trying to go with this.....but, 9/11 is 9/11....insofar as you don't need to look at a calendar to see when it's happening, because well, it's 9/11. From what I gather Yom Kippur moves around. And OP wasn't made initially aware of it's date even after having looked at a regular calendar. I can't imagine OP having planned a wedding on 9/11 and having a grandmother directly affect, and then coming back here to whine about how she doesn't want to change her date....ya know, because 9/11 is pretty obvious of a date. Yom Kippur, especially for a non-practicing Jew? Not so obvious. </div>

lyndausvi

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_calling-jews?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5fcf0604-0f02-493e-b1f0-9a5de86393b6Post:02af06cf-f078-44f4-a1eb-7141a01537b4">Re: Calling all Jews</a>:
[QUOTE]Please stop comparing Christmas with Yom Kippur. One is a day of celebration of the birth of Christ. The other is a solemn day of atonement. It's like comparing apples and idiots.
Posted by Simply Fated[/QUOTE]

This.  

I'm actually surprised at all the people who are comparing the 2 holidays.  If you do not know what Yom Kippur is, fine, I didn't know until I had a Jewish friend.  But at least do a little research before you start comparing it Christian holidays (and American, for that matter).

MrsMLRB

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_calling-jews?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5fcf0604-0f02-493e-b1f0-9a5de86393b6Post:02af06cf-f078-44f4-a1eb-7141a01537b4">Re: Calling all Jews</a>:
[QUOTE]Please stop comparing Christmas with Yom Kippur. One is a day of celebration of the birth of Christ. The other is a solemn day of atonement. It's like comparing apples and idiots.
Posted by Simply Fated[/QUOTE]

This. They are not the same holiday.

Christmas is a day about celebrations with your family. You feast, you open presents, you do lots of happy things.

Yom Kippur is a day of solemnity. You don't eat, drink, shower, wear leather, have sex, watch television or basically anything. All you do is pray and think. Jews aren't even allowed to get married in the interim between Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur. The holidays are nothing alike so please stop comparing Christmas and Yom Kippur. There is a very different meaning behind Yom Kippur that makes it an inappropriate day to get married.

FWIW, this only upsets me because there are several people who are Jewish being affected by this wedding. If there were no Jewish guests, it would be a completely different story.

Calypso1977

i agree, christmas is not a good comparison.  GoodFriday/Easter is as Easter is a much, much more important holiday.

i think yom kuppur is an inappropriate day for a jewish person to be married.  OP is not jewish.  her father is jewish, but she was baptized and raised in another faith.  and again, HER FATHER SAID NOTHING ABOUT THE DATE WHEN BOOKED.  if yom kippur isnt important to teh "jewish" father, why should it be important to the christian bride/groom?  i dont think is disrespecting the jewish faith because its not jewish people getting married.  if the jewish people invited feel its inappropriate to participate in a wedding that day, then they dont have to attend.  clearly, her friends dont find it inappropriate so they are attending, her grandma does, so she isnt.  and OP is fine with their decisions.

GilliC

I hope that all of the people who are offended that anyone would plan a wedding on Yom Kippur are also offended by anyone having a wedding next August.  After all, that's Ramadan, and it would be insensitive to have a celebration in the midst of such a solemn and important month of fasting!

And feel free to flame me, but I don't even know what religions all the people in our wedding party observe.  I know there were a few Protestants and at least one Jain (because I wanted to make sure we served something at the reception that he could eat), but beyond that I don't really pry into my friends' religious beliefs.

tldh

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_calling-jews?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:5fcf0604-0f02-493e-b1f0-9a5de86393b6Post:51ca6cae-dc78-4015-bba2-f261e184b2c1">Re: Calling all Jews</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Calling all Jews : Also, It was in NO way my "bad planning". My dad might be Jewish, but I am not.<strong> My friends who are Jewish didn't even realize it was Yom Kippur because it's not like they have their 2011 calendars in front of them.</strong> My dad AND my grandma knew the date when I planned it and neither of them realized either. I didn't think to look for it because I don't observe. I thought Yom Kippur usually falls in September.  If I was really Jewish and had a big Jewish family that were all attending, then yes- poor planning. But, like I said, I was raised Catholic and have only my Grandma that is effected by this. 
Posted by MommyMarta08[/QUOTE]

No, but you should have and I have yet to see a calendar that doesn't have Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur on it.

Simply Fated

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_calling-jews?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5fcf0604-0f02-493e-b1f0-9a5de86393b6Post:1deb02c3-ae44-44a2-862a-604e3aea70c3">Re: Calling all Jews</a>:
[QUOTE]I hope that all of the people who are offended that anyone would plan a wedding on Yom Kippur are also offended by anyone having a wedding next August.  After all, that's Ramadan, and it would be insensitive to have a celebration in the midst of such a solemn and important month of fasting! And feel free to flame me, but I don't even know what religions all the people in our wedding party observe.  I know there were a few Protestants and at least one Jain (because I wanted to make sure we served something at the reception that he could eat), but beyond that I don't really pry into my friends' religious beliefs.
Posted by GilliC[/QUOTE]
It depends on who is having the wedding. If it's a random co-worker or an acquaintance, then it wouldn't matter, anyway, because I'm not close to them.
But if it's a family member or a close friend, then they know I'm Jewish. And, yes, my friends know what Yom Kippur is either because we've talked about religion or because they know how to use Google. It's the same way I learned about Good Friday and Ramadan.

Not growing up with a religion isn't an excuse to not be familiar with other religions or even your own. Not when we have Google at our disposal.

I understand not wanting to plan your wedding around every single religion, but when you know that multiple guests definitely won't be able to make it for any reason, then that's a choice you have to make.

LD1970

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_calling-jews?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5fcf0604-0f02-493e-b1f0-9a5de86393b6Post:ef9def68-d4c7-406b-bb28-269032f0321e">Calling all Jews</a>:
[QUOTE]I just found out my wedding is on Yom Kippur! I planned my wedding a year and a half in advance. I booked my hall, my caterer, my dj, my transportation, photographer and videographer.  Well, I am half Jewish (obviously not a good Jew being that I didn't realize). My dad is not at all religious and doesn't fast. BUT my grandmother IS. She is not coming to the wedding anymore because she has to go to HER temple (going to one in the town we are getting married is not acceptable). I totally understand it's a religious thing ad she is very close to her temple and has a memorial to my Grandfather there.  I am not very close to her. She always lived far away and was never good at keeping in contact with me, but I do feel bad that she can't come. So, I contacted all my vendors to see if they can change the date. My photographer was not available to make the move. I already laid down a hefty deposit for him and had my engagement pictures done.  Am I horrible for keeping my date? I tried to accomodate her as much as possible. I tried to change the date (photog not available), I moved my rehearsal dinner the night before earlier so she can still eat before sundown and my food at my wedding won't be served until after sundown.  When I emailed her to tell her I was contacting my vendors to see if they can  change, she didn't even email me back. I just feel like I tried to bend over backwards to allow her to attend and her not answering me makes me feel like she isn't even thankful that I was trying to change my whole wedding b/c of her. At this point, I'm thinking I should just accept she isn't going to be there and keep things the way they are.  5 of my close girlfriends are observing the holdiay too, but are ok with skipping services that weekend. They will be fasting (but like I said my food will be served after break fast) so they will be able to eat at the wedding.  Sorry for this being so long
Posted by MommyMarta08[/QUOTE]
It's not just eating.  <strong>She cannot drive on Yom Kippur</strong>, which means she can't come until after sundown.  You are precluding her from your wedding.  And if everything else from your wedding can move besides the photographer, I'd get a new photographer.<div>
</div><div>Then again, I'd have checked beforehand to make sure my wedding didn't interfere with any important holidays - of any faith.</div>

LD1970

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_calling-jews?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5fcf0604-0f02-493e-b1f0-9a5de86393b6Post:b450a080-e882-4b5c-82c2-00a21cc4f278">Re: Calling all Jews</a>:
[QUOTE]They don't go to service every year. One of them was in Argentina this year for Yom Kippur. 
Posted by MommyMarta08[/QUOTE]
Did you know there are synagogues in Argentina?  Really truly!

MrsMack10612

<p>In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_calling-jews?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:5fcf0604-0f02-493e-b1f0-9a5de86393b6Post:a075e384-4f62-4432-aa63-af6948210aa0">Re: Calling all Jews</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Calling all Jews : No, but you should have and I have yet to see a calendar that doesn't have Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur on it.
Posted by tldh[/QUOTE]

Probably unnecessarily - but I felt that need to put my 2 cents in...

I would really love to know what 2011 calendar she's looked at that didn't have Yom Kippur on it.  I have a cheesy, free give away calendar from iParty at my desk and it's all the major holidays in it, and even some lesser ones like Pearl Harbor Day.  Even Microsoft Outlook has a setting you can use to make sure all holidays are noted (with special check boxes for various religious observances).</p>
<p>Though in general I understand her not wanting to make the change - but knowing that her father, her grandmother and several of her closest friends are Jewish - I absolutely would have made sure that date was WIDE open.

Oh, and I don't think that PPs were comparing Christmas & Yom Kippur as "like" holidays, more trying to impart that both are <em>extremely</em> important to the respective faiths.
</p>

nickandmerritt

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_calling-jews?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5fcf0604-0f02-493e-b1f0-9a5de86393b6Post:a4ad6ef8-96b4-46bb-afa7-d0a70ee246d7">Re: Calling all Jews</a>:
[QUOTE]My friends are not religious enough for them to skip the wedding. They are fasting but that's it. They are not upset.<strong> Even my non-Jewish friends are fasting so they can stuff their faces at my wedding with less guilt haha.</strong>  My grandma and I aren't very close. My other grandparents and I are super close and I would have changed my wedding YEAR for them, but it just isn't like that with my Jewish grandma and me. She missed a lot of events in my life- voluntarily and having nothing to do with faith.  Also, my wedding is 2011 (october 8) not 2012 (for the person who said sept 26 above) 
Posted by MommyMarta08[/QUOTE]

Dude, why are you not at all concerned that some of your non-Jewish friends apparently have eating disorders?  No wonder you don't give a s**t that people are fasting.

eshaufle

I think most points have been addressed on this subject except for the calendar issue...

You want to know what calendar my FI and I looked at when we picked our date?  Our iPhone calendar, which, unless I have some setting turned a weird way, does not actually show me holidays when I'm looking at full months.  I actually do find this odd but I'm looking at it right now and I see no indications on any major holidays that would show someone important dates like that.  I can't say for sure what OP used but it is entirely possible for someone to look at a calendar to see what dates Saturdays fall on and choose based on that alone.

I'm Chrisitan and yes if I was looking into a March/April wedding, it would ring a bell in my head to see what date Easter fell on.  But OP does not practice the Jewish religion.  Her father had to take some responsibility in this to turn her attention to it since this is not her religion.

I don't keep track of other peoples' religions.  My FI and I chose a September wedding date and it never even occurred to me that maybe this would fall on a Jewish holiday.  I have no idea when those holidays fall since I don't practice that religion.  I can't even keep track of my own Christian holidays that don't have a specific date they fall on (which I can only think of Christmas as one of those).  Our date doesn't fall on a holiday but, if it did, it would obviously be up to my Jewish friends whether they were coming or not. 

Simply Fated

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_calling-jews?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5fcf0604-0f02-493e-b1f0-9a5de86393b6Post:8d36dbc0-d4ea-49c1-91ca-9622c32d4350">Re: Calling all Jews</a>:
[QUOTE]I think most points have been addressed on this subject except for the calendar issue... You want to know what calendar my FI and I looked at when we picked our date?  Our iPhone calendar, which, unless I have some setting turned a weird way, does not actually show me holidays when I'm looking at full months.  I actually do find this odd but I'm looking at it right now and I see no indications on any major holidays that would show someone important dates like that.  I can't say for sure what OP used but it is entirely possible for someone to look at a calendar to see what dates Saturdays fall on and choose based on that alone. I'm Chrisitan and yes if I was looking into a March/April wedding, it would ring a bell in my head to see what date Easter fell on.  But OP does not practice the Jewish religion.  Her father had to take some responsibility in this to turn her attention to it since this is not her religion. I don't keep track of other peoples' religions.  My FI and I chose a September wedding date and it never even occurred to me that maybe this would fall on a Jewish holiday.  I have no idea when those holidays fall since I don't practice that religion.  I can't even keep track of my own Christian holidays that don't have a specific date they fall on (which I can only think of Christmas as one of those).  Our date doesn't fall on a holiday but, if it did, it would obviously be up to my Jewish friends whether they were coming or not. 
Posted by eshaufle[/QUOTE]

Please don't use your own religion as an excuse to not being aware of other people's religions. I'm Jewish and I would take into account when Easter falls on, even though the date shifts. The whole, "But I'm not <religion />" is pretty weak. I'm not Catholic, but I know my friends prefer to spend holidays with family. I know they wouldn't choose me over them and I wouldn't put them in that position, anyway.
Weddings are often held on some holidays, but that doesn't make it right. I am fine with Fourth of July and NYE weddings and even 9/11 weddings, but religious ones where church/temple/mosque/etc attendance and religious practices are expected, is where I personally draw the line.

My phone also doesn't have any holidays on it, but because she said that she planned the date well, it shows that she didn't.


ETA: I'm not saying that everyone should know about all religions all the time, just that it is a weak excuse to say "Not my religion, not my problem."

GilliC

[QUOTE]ETA: I'm not saying that everyone should know about all religions all the time, just that it is a weak excuse to say "Not my religion, not my problem."
Posted by Simply Fated[/QUOTE]
True that isn't what you're saying, but you <em>are</em> saying:
[QUOTE]Please don't use your own religion as an excuse to not being aware of other people's religions. ... The whole, "But I'm not <religion />" is pretty weak. ...  I am fine with Fourth of July and NYE weddings and even 9/11 weddings, but religious ones where church/temple/mosque/etc attendance and religious practices are expected, is where I personally draw the line.[/QUOTE]
and:
[QUOTE]Not growing up with a religion isn't an excuse to not be familiar with other religions or even your own. Not when we have Google at our disposal.[/QUOTE]

So, I hope you used Google to check your date against Protestant holidays, Catholic holidays, Jewish holidays, Hindu holidays, Muslim holidays, Sikh holidays, Shinto holidays, Buddhist holidays, Parsi holidays, etc.  After all, maybe one of your friends quietly converted to Neopaganism and hasn't mentioned it to anyone yet.

lyndausvi

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_calling-jews?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5fcf0604-0f02-493e-b1f0-9a5de86393b6Post:8d0cfba7-bdfc-463e-bbff-ef35df7c28e5">Re: Calling all Jews</a>:
[QUOTE]True that isn't what you're saying, but you are saying: and: So, I hope you used Google to check your date against Protestant holidays, Catholic holidays, Jewish holidays, Hindu holidays, Muslim holidays, Sikh holidays, Shinto holidays, Buddhist holidays, Parsi holidays, etc.  After all, maybe one of your friends quietly converted to Neopaganism and hasn't mentioned it to anyone yet.
Posted by GilliC[/QUOTE]


Call me crazy but I only invited family and friends to my wedding.  I knew all the religions and dietary restrictions of all my guests.    If I had a close blood relative (such as a grandmother), they yes I would have made sure our wedding was not on a holy day.

Other guests like co-workers, cousins that had to be invited, SO of friends that you are not really friends with, etc.  then no I might not have gone out of my way UNLESS it represented a large group of people.

Rosie109

Lets not forget that her father's family aren't some co-workers you don't really know or a long lost cousin who converted to a different religion when she went away to sleepover camp.

Naming every religion under the sun doesn't make sense. 

eshaufle

I think all GilliC and I were saying is that honest mistakes happen, especially something like this where you don't even practice the relgiion.  The OP was not intentionally negligent in picking her date.  She doesn't observe Jewish holidays so it was an honest error.  People make them all the time.

It sounds like everyone Jewish was well aware of the date and, therefore, probably should have said something as soon as the date was thrown out.  It sounds like OP had already had a lot booked already so it makes me think that no one bothered to bring up the holiday to the person planning the wedding that isn't even Jewish within a reasonable time.  It doesn't sound like she cares about her grandmother coming so I guess that's her choice (not what I would do but that's not the point).

And all my FI and I did when we looked at our phone calendars was say "Hey how about Saturday, September 24?"  "Sounds good."  "Hey mom and dad, 9/24/11 sound good to you?"  Done.  No other calendar nor Google was consulted.  Mistakes can obviously happen this way but when you don't practice a certain religion it's not like you're saying it's not your problem...it just doesn't naturally enter your mind necessarily.  It would help if her dad had spoken up about this initially.  I would be ticked too if he never said something and all of a sudden I stand to lose a lot of money on something I've been planning for a year and half because of his silence.

J.T.

I think it's completely understandable to not consider religious holidays when you book something.  I am not religious at all, and my family only goes to church on Christmas.  I respect everyone else's religion, but never talk about religion with my friends unless it comes up as a theoretical topic (meaning that I don't know my friend's beliefs).  When I booked my wedding it never even crossed my mind to consider religious holidays because religion is not something that is important to me.  Just like a PP said that she crossed off certain days with sporting events on them - I would have never considered that because it isn't important to me.  If religion were something that were important to me then I would have thought to consider not only my religious holidays, but also other important ones when I had my wedding.

That being said, the first thing I thought when I read this post was "Huh, I never would have thought of that.  I should really keep that in mind when planning big events in the future."  I think the OP should use this as a learning experience for the future, but she made a good faith effort to change it, it's not cost effective, and she's not close to her grandmother.  If she was saying "my friends won't come, what b*tches" then she'd be wrong, but she's not.  If people decide not to come she needs to understand that, but that doesn't mean she needs to forfeit a bunch of money to please someone who's not a big part of her life.