Callouts

kikibaby

The biggest reason that FFF is different is because it's not anonymous.  People can respond to you.  If I go in there and say "XYZ is ugly, Joe Blow is fat and I don't think that Amoro lives in Sweden", those people and everyone else can respond.  Those things aren't tolerated, so there is self-monitoring in FFF. 

Also, if someone crosses a certain line in FFF, it can be reported and deleted, and that person can potentially be banned from the site.  None of this is true for the callouts.

georgia_bride09

Re: FFF

As we've all said before, if you don't like it, don't open it. Some people don't like it, so they avoid it. It's also not anonymous, so if you have a problem with someone, they know it's you with the problem. Yes, I will agree that sometimes newer or less popular posters may feel ganged up on, but if you avoid FFF in the first place, you can continue to be blissfully ignorant.

And if we all stop going to the callout site, it's the same thing. We don't like it, so we will ignore it.

I just think FFF and the callouts are apples and oranges. There is absolutely no accountability w/ the callouts, which is the fundamental difference.

squirrly

The difference to me is that FFF has a NAME with it.  And we can ban that member if they go over the line.  This site, there's nothing.  And we've talked about just ignoring every day since this started, and it's clearly not getting ignored.  It's just escalating.

If everybody actually DOES ignore and not post, there won't be anything for deletion. 

georgia_bride09

kiki, we are mind-melding today.

ExpatPumpkin

Sorry, but I just had to point out that recognise is a correct version of recognize in British English.  To the poster who "corrected" Alix, really?  You didn't know that?

wadingmoose

FFF happens here.

Explain why the callout sites were created for the Bump and the Nest before the knot.

alixzafiris

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_callouts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:70e1c85d-69fc-485a-9827-7c5103ab485aPost:979f6552-fd57-4ece-a5fd-f37ba57c3347">Re: Callouts</a>:
[QUOTE]Sorry, but I just had to point out that recognise is a correct version of recognize in British English.  To the poster who "corrected" Alix, really?  You didn't know that?
Posted by ExpatPumpkin[/QUOTE]

THANK YOU!

My god I'm sitting here giggling at the back and forth about it (Amoro, not going to lie, I thought you were the one calling the you-can't-spell person an idiot <img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif" border="0" alt="Laughing" title="Laughing" />).

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

At least with FFF, I've never seen someone say nasty things about another poster's looks or weight. And if someone did, they would certainly get an e-punch to the junk. Plus, by the end of the day, FFF devolves into conversations about cake, twilight, and manolos.

beatlesgirl25

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_callouts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:70e1c85d-69fc-485a-9827-7c5103ab485aPost:f3cc9607-be58-4724-ae07-6a435903dbe7">Re: Callouts</a>:
[QUOTE]The biggest reason that FFF is different is because it's not anonymous.  People can respond to you.  If I go in there and say "XYZ is ugly, Joe Blow is fat and I don't think that Amoro lives in Sweden", those people and everyone else can respond.  Those things aren't tolerated, so there is self-monitoring in FFF.  Also, if someone crosses a certain line in FFF, it can be reported and deleted, and that person can potentially be banned from the site.  None of this is true for the callouts.
Posted by kikibaby[/QUOTE]

Just playing devil's advocate here, but it's only been recently that it's been deemed "okay" for people to respond to flames in FFF. It used to be, flame away and hate on whoever, and they just have to sit back and take it. It was brutal, as I'm sure you remember, Kiki.

I agree with you that there's definitely more accountability when the person posts as themselves to "call out" someone in FFF, vs. posting on the KPS site. But I think pharm was trying to speak to the sentiment behind someone feeling the need to create that site in the first place, and how those hateful comments might compare to hateful comments in FFF. I'm not defending the site or the callouts (OR the callout about P2's H, because attacking spouses is never okay), but I thought she had a point there in terms of the concept of censoring.

georgia_bride09

[QUOTE]FFF happens here. Explain why the callout sites were created for the Bump and the Nest before the knot.
Posted by wadingmoose[/QUOTE]

Boo.

Ya.

NuggetBrain

I think the impact of all the hurtful things that are said on there are actually lessened by the BS threads that we post, and the jokes.  Like how evil Amoro is, and how Fischy is the boss of everybody.  And I agree with the P2 thread, I think it's great that everybody came out to say how appalled they were with that callout.  I can understand the desire to stop the threads, but in all honesty I don't think that's going to make people stop going there, and it very well could remove a needed side effect of taking the sting out of them by making a big joke out of the stupid ones, and making sure the completely inappropriate ones are overshadowed by support. 

smokeybailey

Is it just me but I cannot even FATHOM who has the time to make a ridiculous slam against someone on a MESSAGE BOARD.

Does anyone else see the ridiculousness of this?  I mean, do you really sit around at night when you are not online and THINK about the women (for the most part...) who are here and how they affect your life?  If so, get a therapist.  I am amazed at the immaturity that I am seeing. 

If you have a problem with me here, bring it to me.  You want to call me fat, ugly, or stupid?  Here I am.  If you are going to post a stupid callout, well, you are simply ridiculous.  I am seething right now.  I don't care if you ban the conversations about it but I don't think it will stop and I think people will still go look to see because that is human nature.

I am honestly disgusted that there are women out there that are really into this.  Are you 12?  No?  Then grow the f*ck up.

/end rant

danieliza1127

I agree with Smokey.

CarterBailey

So... not drawing attention to this callout site = posting it as a sticky?

squirrly

Carter, I get that.  But, if the concensus is that we want people to know, as a whole, to not post about it, how else do you tell people aside from telling them?  I had planned to unsticky later, anyway. 

Meaghann17

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_callouts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:70e1c85d-69fc-485a-9827-7c5103ab485aPost:979f6552-fd57-4ece-a5fd-f37ba57c3347">Re: Callouts</a>:
[QUOTE]Sorry, but I just had to point out that recognise is a correct version of recognize in British English.  To the poster who "corrected" Alix, really?  You didn't know that?
Posted by ExpatPumpkin[/QUOTE]

lol i was thinking the exact same thing!

PharmacyBride

Thanks for those who answered my question.  I only tried to read FFF twice (and both times it was already 4 pages long).  The first time I thought some of the comments were mean.. the second time I thought it was super boring.  Never read anything about me, but I have been told I have been mentioned (which is fine.. I don't expect everyone to like me).

While I do agree about some of the points made (accountability, delete options, etc), I still agree with my original assessment for one reason... only seasoned knotties really post on FFF.  I don't think newbies feel they can post what they want to say.

The fact is.. there are bullies on this site and there are seasoned veterans who are not always welcoming to newbies.  This site is very cliquey and FFF is dominated by one of the cliques.  I also believe that FFF sets the tone for what behavior is accepted and what isn't.  Maybe callouts take it one step further, but the lined was already blurred.

I completely agree that some of the posts on callouts crossed extreme lines and I really hope the creator enforces more rules (maybe no bullying allowed - especially comments about appearance or being a loser).  

My actual wish is that both callouts and FFF cease to exist as they are both hurtful (along with general bulling and other behavior seen on this site).  I realize my wishes are far from what reality will ever allow.  (I really do live in a "rainbows and puppies" world-- even FI thinks I can be way to innocent sometimes, lol)

If you want callouts gone.. change the behavior on this site.  Choose not to bully the idiot who knows nothing about etiquette.. instead teach her.  Don't attack every cash bar and gap you see .. they are not mortal sins and are actually expected in some circles (although in a perfect world- they wouldn't exist).  TK is full of new girls every day making it's attitude a very fluid thing.  Let's change this from within. 

danieliza1127

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_callouts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:70e1c85d-69fc-485a-9827-7c5103ab485aPost:f843067f-9901-4367-9e68-37222ec1ae52">Re: Callouts</a>:
[QUOTE] If you want callouts gone.. change the behavior on this site.  Choose not to bully the idiot who knows nothing about etiquette.. instead teach her.  Don't attack every cash bar and gap you see .. they are not mortal sins and are actually expected in some circles (although in a perfect world- they wouldn't exist).  TK is full of new girls every day making it's attitude a very fluid thing.  Let's change this from within. 
Posted by PharmacyBride[/QUOTE]

That is what Squirrly and I try to do and have been encouraging people to do for a long time.  You can encourage it all you want, but it just won't make it so.  All I can control is my own posting behavior and hope that others follow by example.  It has worked to some extent.  This place is a lot nicer than it has been in the past, even if you find that hard to believe. 

aprovencher21

Welll apparently the mod of the site just made a big announcement about it being an experiment to teach us some things......I'm still missing the lesson. 

kikibaby

I know today is happy sunshine day suddenly, but I do have to say, Pharmacy- if this board doesn't suit your sensibilities, there are many other boards on the Internet to choose from.  There's one right "next door" that doesn't have FFF.

PharmacyBride

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_callouts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:70e1c85d-69fc-485a-9827-7c5103ab485aPost:4a283691-2ba3-40e4-b479-96a0bffa1ac0">Re: Callouts</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Callouts : That is what Squirrly and I try to do and have been encouraging people to do for a long time.  You can encourage it all you want, but it just won't make it so.  All I can control is my own posting behavior and hope that others follow by example.  It has worked to some extent.  This place is a lot nicer than it has been in the past, even if you find that hard to believe. 
Posted by danieliza1127[/QUOTE]

<div>Actually, I have noticed you, squirly, and a few other regs are not like that.  I also notice you are usually one of the first girls to post in a thread (especially Reception Ideas)- so you set a nice tone.</div><div>
</div><div>I haven't been around long enough to know where we've been and where we are going, but I have been around long enough to see girls flat out telling another that if she thinks this site is mean- then she should leave (as if they were proud of TK's reputation).  Those comments were frequent in late winter, early spring.  I actually stuck around only because I loved TK and I wasn't going to let someone have power over me like that.</div><div>
</div><div>I don't think I am the first/only person who feels the way I do- it just makes me feel better to say it out loud.. and hopefully it makes someone feel better to read it.</div>

MVJP10

I get what pharmacybride is saying.  Other than the call out site being anonymous, FFF is still an opportunity to say hurtful things. I don't agree with either one the callout site or FFF, but I also don't agree with censorship. Why not ban FFF then?

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_callouts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:70e1c85d-69fc-485a-9827-7c5103ab485aPost:d0bd6c45-5b36-424a-942c-0b5920fae6cc">Re: Callouts</a>:
[QUOTE]I know today is happy sunshine day suddenly, but I do have to say, Pharmacy- if this board doesn't suit your sensibilities, there are many other boards on the Internet to choose from.  There's one right "next door" that doesn't have FFF.
Posted by kikibaby[/QUOTE]

The same wisdom can be applied to the call out site you don't like it don't read it.

aprovencher21

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_callouts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:70e1c85d-69fc-485a-9827-7c5103ab485aPost:d0bd6c45-5b36-424a-942c-0b5920fae6cc">Re: Callouts</a>:
[QUOTE]I know today is happy sunshine day suddenly, but I do have to say, Pharmacy- if this board doesn't suit your sensibilities, there are many other boards on the Internet to choose from.  There's one right "next door" that doesn't have FFF.
Posted by kikibaby[/QUOTE]


See its reactions like this....when Pharmacy is being respectful and saying how she feels....that makes me feel unwelcome on E.  Just because something a small group is doing on a board isn't something I like doesn't mean I shouldn't post on that board.

PharmacyBride

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_callouts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:70e1c85d-69fc-485a-9827-7c5103ab485aPost:d0bd6c45-5b36-424a-942c-0b5920fae6cc">Re: Callouts</a>:
[QUOTE]I know today is happy sunshine day suddenly, but I do have to say, Pharmacy- if this board doesn't suit your sensibilities, there are many other boards on the Internet to choose from.  There's one right "next door" that doesn't have FFF.
Posted by kikibaby[/QUOTE]

<div>I know.. and other sites are available too.  I like the questions posted by newbies on E and I learn a lot from the answers.  I would be lying if I said it didn't make me feel good to answer their questions and help girls out- it is probably why I have become addicted to TK.</div><div>
</div><div>I ignore FFF and don't think much about it.  I looked at it twice out of curiosity, but otherwise ... I wouldn't notice if it was gone (before the callout thing started). </div><div>
</div><div>This whole debate about callouts got me to reevaluate FFF and made me realize that many girls probably do read it- this realization makes me annoyed- but after this week I am sure I will just go back to my normal postings- as this callout drama dies down.</div>

ricksang

I hate to be the fart in a garden full of roses but I don't think this is going to work. I think NOW that some people on this site are truly just mean, terrible assholes who don't care whose feelings they hurt. What's going to be sad is when a callout hurts a poster and something bad happens.

baystateapple

Thanks, Squirrly.  This is great.

wadingmoose

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_callouts?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:70e1c85d-69fc-485a-9827-7c5103ab485aPost:fe5c2ae5-c2d3-4d70-b4c1-0090fd8006c7">Re: Callouts</a>:
[QUOTE]I hate to be the fart in a garden full of roses but I don't think this is going to work. I think NOW that some people on this site are truly just mean, terrible assholes who don't care whose feelings they hurt. What's going to be sad is when a callout hurts a poster and something bad happens.
Posted by ricksang[/QUOTE]


I agree with this.  We can be as mad as anything at the person who created the site, but the reality is someone sent in the callouts. 

A lot of what was said crossed a lot of lines.  Way more lines than have ever been crossed in a FFF.  And let's face it, that was said by people who post here (the knot) or lurk here.  Those are the people reading what we have to say.  That's apparently what they really think. 

It's fine to point fingers, but the reality is that someone you probably really like and respect sent in some of the worst ones.

Isn't it awesome?  Yeah.  the people we might consider "friends" are really two faced, spineless shiits who needed to say that stuff anonymously.   That's the lesson I learned.  If you don't like something, visciously attack it anonymously.  Then you win.

And if things change so you don't like it again?  Bring out the anonymous shiit again and teach those biitches a lesson.

Fineporcelain

Ok you guys are still talking about it and there are newbs here.lol

tianpu

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