Guests who are "definitely not coming"

waywardgirl

I took your wonderful advice when speaking (aka having my fiance speak) to my FMIL about inviting non-attending guests. The venue capacity is 180, and we are not changing the venue. She exceeded her 33% and is inviting 80 people, 40 of whom are expected not to come because of distance, age and/or estrangement.

However, FMIL is very adamant that we invite the 40 people who will not be attending of the 80 people on their list because it would be very hurtful to them should they find out, and that we should invite 220 people to make up for the 40 not coming. Plus, they're keen on the gifts that these relatives will likely send, and these relatives have been invited to (and not attended) other cousins' weddings.

I'm fine with inviting some of these relatives that they talk to regularly and the few that FI and I have met, but I'd really hate to cut close friends in favor of invitees who will most likely not come and whom FI and I have never met - and then have only 50% of invitees show up to the wedding. That would be a bummer.

Strategies used so far:

1. Sending articles on why we cannot invite more that venue capacity - she said these guests just won't come anyway

2. Having FI talk to her - he just gave in to her (Momma's boy ), and he doesn't quite understand the capacity thing anyway

3. Giving her a set number of guests to invite - she said 40 people won't come anyway, so she was technically under her 33%

4. Asking if she has friends that she'd like to invite instead that might actually attend the wedding, since we're hoping for a good turnout - she said that she'd rather invite the relatives

She is SO nice, which makes it difficult to be really strict with her, but I think it's her niceness that's keeping her from scratching people off the list. I'm sending out save the dates soon and would like to have this settled quite soon.

I'm thinking of trying #4 again and insisting a little harder this time... what do y'all think? Thank you so much in advance!

Edie Bee

Maybe try explaining to her that you are really uncomfortable with inviting over capacity in addition to #4?

Summer2011Bride

I would have FI deal with this. He needs to learn that even though his mom is nice, there are times he has to put his foot down and may have to during the course of your marriage. I would have him explain the capacity issue and that there is no way you guys will be over-inviting. It doesn't matter if she says people won't come; there is a chance they may and then what will you do if you are over? He can also let her know how many people she can put down on her list so you are still under capacity.

It sounds like you posted about this before and I missed that one so perhaps this has been addressed, but who is paying for the wedding?

waywardgirl

In Response to Re: Guests who are "definitely not coming":

I would have FI deal with this. He needs to learn that even though his mom is nice, there are times he has to put his foot down and may have to during the course of your marriage. I would have him explain the capacity issue and that there is no way you guys will be over-inviting. It doesn't matter if she says people won't come; there is a chance they may and then what will you do if you are over? He can also let her know how many people she can put down on her list so you are still under capacity. It sounds like you posted about this before and I missed that one so perhaps this has been addressed, but who is paying for the wedding?
Posted by Summer2011Bride

My parents are paying for just about everything. FI and I are chipping in approximately 20% and in-laws are paying for the rehearsal dinner and for some of the alcohol.

I do have to have this conversation with my fiance, and I have to find a time when he's calm and not stressed. He's been very concerned about his mom's health recently, hence why he's so willing to give in to what she wants - but, naturally, he wants a really good turnout at the wedding, so I think that will help him understand.

KellyBrian2013

I would talk to your FI and then, united, tell his mother that you understand where she is coming from but this is not about guessing who will and won't come. She gets X number of invites, whether she expects them to come or not, and that's that. If she doesn't want to narrow her list down, you and FI will do it for her.

Sometimes tough love is the answer. Definitely DO NOT invite over capacity.


ETA - maybe approach it that you don't want to waste the money for FORTY invitations that are essentially useless if she is SO certain they are not coming. Maybe tell her you will send wedding announcements (less expensive) to those forty people post-wedding?

Summer2011Bride

In Response to Re: Guests who are "definitely not coming":

In Response to Re: Guests who are "definitely not coming" : My parents are paying for just about everything. FI and I are chipping in approximately 20% and in-laws are paying for the rehearsal dinner and for some of the alcohol. I do have to have this conversation with my fiance, and I have to find a time when he's calm and not stressed. He's been very concerned about his mom's health recently, hence why he's so willing to give in to what she wants - but, naturally, he wants a really good turnout at the wedding, so I think that will help him understand.
Posted by waywardgirl

Yeah if FMIL is not paying, I don't think she gets extra say. I mean, definitely ask her for a list and everything, but she doesn't have a right to insist on inviting too many people and putting you in a bad spot if they all decide to come.

Fi doesn't have to be mean or cruel when talking to her; just firm. I know it can be tough; my H had a hard time putting his foot down to his parents when he moved out because for so long, they had things to hold over his head so he always had had to just go along with what they wanted. It's an adjustment, but setting the precedent now will be a good thing.

StageManager14

Why the focus on a "good turnout"? I think your primary problem is that you and your FI are more concerned about the number of people that are going to show up rather than the actual WHO.

waywardgirl

In Response to Re:Guests who are quot;definitely not comingquot;:

Why the focus on a "good turnout"? I think your primary problem is that you and your FI are more concerned about the number of people that are going to show up rather than the actual WHO.
Posted by StageManager14

I apologize - I realize that, with how many numbers I threw around, it seems like I'm most concerned about the numbers... I should have stressed how important it is to us that we're able to invite people we have relationships with to the wedding.

Thanks, everyone - I'll have a nice talk with my fiance so that we're both on the same page and so that we can have a talk over Christmas with his mom about re-prioritizing (and shrinking!) their list. Really, I think once my fiance has firmly made up his mind, his mom will come around.

KindaSparkly

Have you tried reminding her how horribly embarrassing it will be to have to call people and rescind their invitation when, say 191 or 196 people RSVP yes?  Heck, if you have 181 you're still up a creek.  

I invited my H's 80-something aunt at the insistence of MIL. My MIL swore up and down: "She will never ever EVER in a million years come! I don't think she's left her town in ten years!"  Great Aunt Ann's son forwarded H Ann's flight itinerary within a week of receiving her invitation.  Auntie Ann's rationale: "I don't usualy travel but I'm getting up there and this may be the last time I get to see the whole family!"  If you invite them, they will come!

RMcDougle

My FMIL says the exact thing about half her guest list (which is only close friends and family) because the wedding is two hours from where they live.. meh. But at least we are still within budget and capacity with 100% attendance.

I know that B-lists are an etiquette no-no, but maybe in this case, have your FMIL make her REAL list of 60 people she actually wants to invite (not an obligatory invite--to reciprocate an invite extended to her, to get a gift, to whatever). Then tell her that as you get the first few "with regrets" you will turn around and mail out the "it would be rude not to, but they will NEVER attend" invites. As long as you're not sending these invites within 4 weeks of the wedding, if these guests can make it, they have notice to make plans.

MoonlightSilver

I hope you're including your vendors and yourselves in that 180 person count, if that's a firecode limit. 

Have you offered to do wedding announcements for these people? If they definitely wont be coming, then they can hear about the wedding after it happened. If they're so inclined to send gifts then, that's their choice. 

waywardgirl

In Response to Re: Guests who are "definitely not coming":

My FMIL says the exact thing about half her guest list (which is only close friends and family) because the wedding is two hours from where they live.. meh. But at least we are still within budget and capacity with 100% attendance. I know that B-lists are an etiquette no-no, but maybe in this case, have your FMIL make her REAL list of 60 people she actually wants to invite (not an obligatory invite--to reciprocate an invite extended to her, to get a gift, to whatever). Then tell her that as you get the first few "with regrets" you will turn around and mail out the "it would be rude not to, but they will NEVER attend" invites. As long as you're not sending these invites within 4 weeks of the wedding, if these guests can make it, they have notice to make plans.
Posted by RMcDougle

Oh my gosh, I love this idea - what do the rest of you think? Since these "not coming" guests don't speak to anyone anyway, would it be okay to B-list them and send them invites as we get noes from other guests? Is this an instance where B-list is okay?

If so, this could be a FANTASTIC solution!

libby2483

There is no way to guarantee that these people "definitely won't come".  For our wedding, we invited a few of my H's distant relates that his grandma and mom wanted us to invite to be polite, even though they were sure they wouldn't attend.  Every single one of them except one came.  Luckily, we weren't over capacity, so it was no big deal.  But you never know who will decide to make the trip.  

I agree that if your FILs aren't paying, they don't get to insist upon inviting extra people.  It sounds like you have given them a set number, which was fairly divided.  My H's dad has this group of super close friends (and he lives with some of them).  We were perfectly fine inviting them, but when he wanted us to invite several of his coworkers that we didn't know, we had to tell him that he needed to pick X number of friends to invite.  

The most important thing is for you and your FI to present a unified front and be on the same page about this.  It sounds like your FI is willing to give into his mom pretty easily, so for you to resolve this issue, you really need to make sure the two of you are on the same page.

libby2483

In Response to Re: Guests who are "definitely not coming":

In Response to Re: Guests who are "definitely not coming" : Oh my gosh, I love this idea - what do the rest of you think? Since these "not coming" guests don't speak to anyone anyway, would it be okay to B-list them and send them invites as we get noes from other guests? Is this an instance where B-list is okay? If so, this could be a FANTASTIC solution!
Posted by waywardgirl

I think B-listing is always rude.  If these guests get an invitation close to the wedding, with an RSVP date a week away, they will know they have been B-listed.  I would avoid this.

Edit: Clarity

KellyBrian2013

Personally, I don't think that B-lists are ever okay.

Not to mention that you are setting yourselves up for a lifetime of MIL negotiating her way with you. Make a decision together with your FI and stick with it.

Fancypantsamy

I think you and FI need to stick to your guns - and you need to stop grinning about him being a mama's boy when he's essentially throwing you under the bus to keep her happy. Perhaps if you suggest to him that you're fine with her invites if he cuts HIS friends to make room for these "definite no shows", he'll go in to talk to her with a little bit more of a backbone. 

Loopyseven

In Response to Re: Guests who are "definitely not coming":

I would talk to your FI and then, united, tell his mother that you understand where she is coming from but this is not about guessing who will and won't come. She gets X number of invites, whether she expects them to come or not, and that's that. If she doesn't want to narrow her list down, you and FI will do it for her. Sometimes tough love is the answer. Definitely DO NOT invite over capacity. ETA - maybe approach it that you don't want to waste the money for FORTY invitations that are essentially useless if she is SO certain they are not coming. Maybe tell her you will send wedding announcements (less expensive) to those forty people post-wedding?
Posted by KellyBrian2013

All of this.  KB nailed this one.

Loopyseven

In Response to Re: Guests who are "definitely not coming":

Personally, I don't think that B-lists are ever okay. Not to mention that you are setting yourselves up for a lifetime of MIL negotiating her way with you. Make a decision together with your FI and stick with it.
Posted by KellyBrian2013

Ditto to this too.  B lists are not acceptable.  Set your guest list, come to an agreement with your FI, and stick to it.  

You could just not send STD's out (they arent' required anyway), or only send them to a core group so you can leave final guest list decisions til closer to the wedding if you need more time to nail down a guest list that meets your 180 person limit.  We had quite a few "surprise, they decided to come" guests at our wedding.  Luckily we were still okay on budget and capacity either way.

Cortney1982

If the venue capacity is 180, you don't want 180 people in there.  Too crowded is uncomfortable.  You can only invite 180, not a single person more.  Why is FMIL so concerned with inviting more guests than you can accomodate and ones that most likely won't make for the greater change for you to get gifts/cash?  Not like she benefits from it.

Erikan73

My MIL and my Mom both gave me lists with courtsey invites. I was told don't worry, at least 30% of the people invited won't come, but we have to invite them because the rest of the people in the family are invited. That should have put our guest list around 80-90 people. Great!! Well except that most of the courtsey invites decided that this was the family event worth attending and our final count was 120. Luckily the venue had the space to accomodate, but it was rough on my budget.

So my lesson learned was never to invite more people to an event then the space can accomodate or you can afford to host.

artbyallie

The solution is this.

fiancé: "Mom, you get X invitations. Please cut your list down or we will do it for you."

Except he's not willing to stand up to her on this, which is really more a problem with him than with her.

aurianna

So a few words from someone who did invite far over the actual capacity of the venue:

Preface:
Husband has 36 first cousins, 24 aunts and uncles as well as a dozen or so "close family friends of his parents". Wedding was in St. Louis, MO and they all live in Minnesota. They're all fairly close knit so inviting some and not others would have been a snub.
I'd been to several of his family's weddings in MN where the family that lived there did not even attend.
My mother was paying for 100% of the wedding and wanted to hold it at the venue that we fell in love with.
The options were over-invite the family probable-no's, or not invite several of the friends close to us who we knew would come.

My mother probably made the wrong choice by etiquette standards, and I went a long with it (because I wanted my friends at the wedding and I hoped it would work out), but we over-invited by quite a bit. (Judge if you want, but the ship's sailed).

In the end, the numbers worked out for us. We were still 10 under our cap.

But here's the thing:

As the RSVPs rolled in, I found myself unhappy when someone we'd blocked off as a "probable no" said yes. As the deadlines were approaching, I was sitting there begging for "more no's! more no's!"

Getting the RSVPs became a very stressful thing, which is something I didn't need so close to the wedding, and the idea, that I was hoping that my invited guests would say no, or that I was unhappy when someone agreed to share their day with us... it was such a negative mindset and SO not how it should have been.


So if nothing else, you could tell her that you think it would be very disrespectful to invite a bunch of extra people in her family, knowing that you'll be wishing for them to say no. And that you just wouldn't feel right putting anyone in a position where you might resent them for coming to the wedding you invited them to, just in hopes of grabbing some more gifts.

RMcDougle

In Response to Re: Guests who are "definitely not coming":

In Response to Re: Guests who are "definitely not coming" : I think B-listing is always rude.  If these guests get an invitation close to the wedding, with an RSVP date a week away, they will know they have been B-listed.  I would avoid this. Edit: Clarity
Posted by libby2483

I do agree that B-listing is rude, but if it can help negotiate with the FMIL (which I don't think is a bad thing) to have 10 or fewer invites set aside to be sent out once there is room in the guest list. If you have the invites out to the primary guest list at the earliest 8 week mark, you will surely get some no's back in time to have the secondary invites to those guests at least 4 weeks out (with an RSVP deadline 2-3 weeks from then).

I know I'm not going to get anyone's approval of this idea on the etiquette board because it is rude/not proper, but as long as the "B-list" invites have appropriate notice they probably won't notice anyhow. This would probably be my course of action to please my FMIL.

KellyBrian2013

But the point is that they shouldn't have to appease FMIL by setting aside an extra 10 invites (B-list or otherwise). She was given a number (33%), which is VERY courteous, especially since she is not paying. She is bullying her way into more invitations and if OP and her FI cave to it now, they should be prepared to cave to it in the future over other issues, too.

Another thing to consider it that, generally, when a venue gives you "180" as the capacity, that includes not only the guests, but the bride & groom, the wedding party, AND the vendors. So, at most, OP should be looking to send invites to about 170 people before reaching the maximum capacity (which is generally very tight and not at all comfortable or fun).

Kate61487

I would stop trying to reason with her and just say, as PPs have said, "You get 40.  Cut it or we will"  You don't owe her an explanation of why she's not allowed to invite 40 extra people she thinks won't show.  You shouldn't need to order 20 extra invitations (assuming couples) and pay the postage on all of those, etc.  It's stupid.

And don't do the b-listing thing.  Aside from the fact that it's just rude on principle the timing RMcDougle is suggesting isn't correct - invitations go out at 6-8 weeks, not 4-8 weeks.  So that means you'd be counting on getting nos back almost instantly.  2-3 days for it to get to them, plus 2-3 days for the RSVP to get back to you means they are RSVPing within a week.  We received almost 0 no RSVPs in the first two weeks; the people who responded immediately were our very close family and friends who were positive they were coming.  The no's trickled in very slowly, and many had to be called after the deadline. 

OwningAHome1981

In Response to Re:Guests who are quot;definitely not comingquot;:

Why the focus on a "good turnout"? I think your primary problem is that you and your FI are more concerned about the number of people that are going to show up rather than the actual WHO.
Posted by StageManager14

The hall may have a minimum that they have to meet? My apologies if this was mentioned, I didn't read the whole thread.