September 2012 Weddings

House update (NWR) and could use some advice/ideas (sorry got long)

So FI and I put in an offer last night for that house but the sellers went with another offer.  We are a little bummed but know it is how it is meant to be.  We now have some perspective on how much it would cost us to move into a house upfront and monthly.  FI's sister said she was going to help us out some with the down payment but she has some other stuff going on so it isn't going to be as much as we thought.  We don't have any houses we are interested in as of just this second but we are hoping to have something closed on by end of October. 

So the question comes into play of how to handle our money.  FI thinks his parents would spot us some of the down payment too knowing that things have been tough on us but that owning is cheaper than renting right now and we would pay them back over time.  But, realistically we have to prepare to do it on our own.  This would require about half of our wedding savings.  We both agree that a house is more important to us than a big fancy wedding.  We are locked into certain things with our contracts of course.  So the question now come into play of do we change our wedding to just meet the minimums of our contracts in case a house comes a long (we have to cut the guest list in half basically so it'll rock the boat some) or proceed as planned until there is a realistic house in play.  Once the invites are out at the end of July there is no going back on that though (God forbid THE house comes along August or September before we maybe recoup some money in gifts).

I'd gladly cut the list in half because I never wanted a big wedding but the "excess" on our guest list mainly came from FI's extended family FMIL insisted be invited (though neither of us care because we don't know who they are).  So I can't go gung-ho on Operation House without basically coming off as not caring about his extended family.  Another reason it would mainly be his family is they didn't get STDs, we didn't have an engagement party up there, and I am not having a shower where any of his family has been invited (they live in another state....wasn't an intentional thing).  My side has to fly to the wedding so nearly everyone has gotten a STD, been invited to our e-party, and/or been invited to my shower.  Those people we HAVE to invite now.  Our minimum is 80 people and my invited side is only 62 with realistically 35-45 people actually coming since they are all OOT so getting to only my half of the minimum isn't bad and will happen regardless of what we do in this situation.  I just dont know how to handle even discussing, let alone deciding (which would be our decision not just mine), house over extended family we dont know at the wedding.  FI's sister advised to just do it and they'll get over it but it seems like a rough way to enter the new family. 

I know it needs to be FI's decision really more than mine but I feel like with our house in question I have a right to present to him both sides.  I just don't want him to feel like I'm pressuring him one way or another.  We really have about 3 weeks to decide (figuring we need a week to figure out who gets the ax and how to break it to FMIL) so I don't need to put the pressure on immediately but it can't be left to the last minute either.  I know that is extremely complicated but any advice would be much appreciated.

Re: House update (NWR) and could use some advice/ideas (sorry got long)

  • I would come up with a number figure how much money you would save by not inviting your FI's extended family. I know it's hard to know how many people would decline, but having a number might push you one way or the other.

    With a house in general (like with marriage) it needs to be a committment. If I had any financial concerns, I would wait (even if renting ends up being more- because you can leave an apartment after a year, and you can't do that nearly as easily with a house).
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  • Honestly, I would wait to buy a house until you were more financially stable. They look like they're cheaper than renting and they can be but all you need is one major repair and you'll be deeply in debt. If a down payment is this stressful imagine what $6000 worth of well repairs would be like. 

    This doesn't meant that you can't hold onto some of the wedding budget for a future house when you're more stable. Is FMIL contributing to the cost of the wedding at all? If not she can't really dictate the guest list. Since the guests you want to cut did not get STDs then you're technically in the clear not to invite them. However only you and your FI can decide whether to rock the boat by declining to invite the people she wants there.
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  • I agree with PPs.  Buying a house can wait.  There are lots of them out there, and while moving into a new house as a newly married couple sounds like an awesome idea (believe me, I'd love to right about now), in the end it will likely end up as an additional stressor that you don't need.  If it were me, and I had the means, I'd still wait until after the wedding to really start looking.  Buying a house is so much work - the thought of adding it in to wedding planning makes my head spin.  Kudos to you ladies that have managed it!
     
    Maybe you could keep extra strict with the budget, and cut extras where possible, putting that money aside for the house fund?  Alternately, do you think it would go over well if you asked FI's mom to help with the costs associated with inviting FI's extended family?  Maybe if you explain that you're trying hard to save money, but also want to respect the extended family by inviting them?  Parents love all that responsible saving money talk... well, mine do at least.
  • FI's parents are helping with some of the wedding (less than 1/3 of total budget, excluding my dress, even though his family is 1/3 of our guest list) but it sort of became a strings attached to invite all these people instead of just a gift.  I don't want to sound ungrateful but it just seemed counterproductive to give us money to "help" but then it really isbreaking even because it tacked on a lot of people (we'd come out positive if we got a lot of declines but FMIL swears 98% of them are coming).  We could leave the guest list untouched if they lent us the money for the down payment but to me it feels like we are holding their guest list "hostage" for a down payment loan at that point haha.   

    Part of why we are looking into buying is the market here is starting to turn up.  If we wait even 6 months we, our realtor, my aunt who is a realtor (and isn't trying to scare us into a commission), my parents...basically everyone we've talked to...said rates will be way higher, as will housing costs.  If that happens, we could be looking at a lot longer to buy a house than just when a year lease is over.  The monthly rate is more than comfortable for us, it is just the lump sum seems high because our savings have been going toward the wedding (mentally, since we haven't had to pay yet) not towards a house.  Rentals here are ridiculous.  We will have to pay more than what our mortgage/taxes/insurance would be for half the square footage.  To then possibly face a more expensive market looks to us like we are throwing away money for potentially years.  Both of our parents are incredible responsible financially and think thru all situations (the wisdom of years experience) and know our finances and they fully support us buying over renting so I feel like we can't be totally off.

    From everyone I talked to the only repairs that are necessary right away AND thousands of dollars in houses down here are roofs.  But that is what inspections are for and we are asking a lot of roof questions and "when was the last time ____ was replaced" questions. 
  • edited June 2012
    I bought a house on my own when I was 24 and I was surprised at how little (relatively) the upfront costs were.  If you get an FHA loan you have to put a very low % down (I think as little as 2%).  You can also always give a solid offer but then ask for sellers assist of $x to cover practically all of your closing costs. 

    Now putting a low % down will mean that you have to pay PMI which is a type of mortgage insurance.  You have to pay that until your loan is less than 80% of the house value and unless you were planning to put 20% or more down this would have probably been on your estimate from the bank anyway.

    Giving a higher offer (maybe even over asking) but requesting a sellers assist will mean that you pay more on that money later because of interest.  But it would definately help your finances now.  Here you have to make sure the house appraises for more than you offer though, so you can't go overboard. 

    When I bought my house I thought it was priced fairly so I offered asking with $5,000 for closing costs and they accepted.  I think I put about 5% down and had an FHA loan where I paid about $80 a month in PMI.  Earlier this year I refinanced for a lower rate and had my house reappraised.  Since the value of my house went up I owned more than 20% of my house and didn't have to pay the PMI on the new mortgage.  I actually pay $100 more a month now, but cut 12 years off my mortgage - so in the long run I'll save a lot. 
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-club-boards_september-2012-weddings_house-update-nwr-and-could-use-some-adviceideas-sorry-got-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding Club BoardsForum:a464c18c-2e4d-469b-8eae-3865079cb9cfDiscussion:c352d980-7b15-48e1-9517-0f7aa9f41cffPost:25f5457d-2c12-486b-8080-7f9f63c7d6f8">Re: House update (NWR) and could use some advice/ideas (sorry got long)</a>:
    [QUOTE]I bought a house on my own when I was 24 and I was surprised at how little (relatively) the upfront costs were.  If you get an FHA loan you have to put a very low % down (I think as little as 2%).  You can also always give a solid offer but then ask for sellers assist of $x to cover practically all of your closing costs.  Now putting a low % down will mean that you have to pay PMI which is a type of mortgage insurance.  You have to pay that until your loan is less than 80% of the house value and unless you were planning to put 20% or more down this would have probably been on your estimate from the bank anyway. Giving a higher offer (maybe even over asking) but requesting a sellers assist will mean that you pay more on that money later because of interest.  But it would definately help your finances now.  Here you have to make sure the house appraises for more than you offer though, so you can't go overboard.  When I bought my house I thought it was priced fairly so I offered asking with $5,000 for closing costs and they accepted.  I think I put about 5% down and had an FHA loan where I paid about $80 a month in PMI.  Earlier this year I refinanced for a lower rate and had my house reappraised.  Since the value of my house went up I owned more than 20% of my house and didn't have to pay the PMI on the new mortgage.  I actually pay $100 more a month now, but cut 12 years off my mortgage - so in the long run I'll save a lot. 
    Posted by Kello4221[/QUOTE]

    Thanks for the insight that it is worth it in the long run if you can figure out the short run!  We figured buying now while things are still on the lower side would put us in a situation like yours where if we go to refinance it almost would have had to be worth more.  We got preapproved for an FHA loan.  Have to put down 3.5% per that these days.  The piece that is the down payment is manageable.  It is that additional $3k in closing costs etc that push us towards "squeezing" our savings.  The house we bid on last night had SIX offers because right now the market has very little inventory so the offers have to be agressive (giving us less power upfront to get things like closing costs covered unforunately).  Our broker estimated we'd be done paying the PMI after 5 years (he put it in years not percentage though I'm sure he was just doing the math).   If there could be a big dump of houses onto the market soon it would give the buyers some more power which would be nice! 
  • I would not buy a house until I was financial stable and able to-like pp have said it seems cheaper then renting but what if a major expense happens. Even with a home inspection there are no guarantees. 

    Not inviting extended family of FI does not seem right to me...I have family my parents wanted invited that I have never met. I am hoping they are like who is this person and since they do not know me they will rsvp no but if they say yes guess I am meeting more of my family. if all of your side get invited and he does not get to invite his side that just seems like a rift waiting to happen. If you made a guest list and planned to invite those individuals then I would do so unless a financial disaster happens. I get wanting a house but I feel your FMIL will be very upset and I do not think that is a good way to start a marriage. I do not know your guest list and dynamics though either. I would talk to FI and see what he thinks-did he agree to his family being invited when his mother brought it up or did he hum and yah about it and then gave in to make his mom happy. B/c if you decide not to invite them you need to have his full support and he should be the one telling his mother not you otherwise you will look very bad and probably have a strained relationship with FMIL especially if ur side was invited and not all of his-yours got save the dates and his didn't.  
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-club-boards_september-2012-weddings_house-update-nwr-and-could-use-some-adviceideas-sorry-got-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding Club BoardsForum:a464c18c-2e4d-469b-8eae-3865079cb9cfDiscussion:c352d980-7b15-48e1-9517-0f7aa9f41cffPost:c56239fc-ecb1-4907-a658-f71ab1b47cbd">Re: House update (NWR) and could use some advice/ideas (sorry got long)</a>:
    [QUOTE]I would not buy a house until I was financial stable and able to-like pp have said it seems cheaper then renting but what if a major expense happens. Even with a home inspection there are no guarantees.  Not inviting extended family of FI does not seem right to me...I have family my parents wanted invited that I have never met. I am hoping they are like who is this person and since they do not know me they will rsvp no but if they say yes guess I am meeting more of my family. if all of your side get invited and he does not get to invite his side that just seems like a rift waiting to happen. If you made a guest list and planned to invite those individuals then I would do so unless a financial disaster happens. I get wanting a house but I feel your FMIL will be very upset and I do not think that is a good way to start a marriage. I do not know your guest list and dynamics though either. I would talk to FI and see what he thinks-<strong>did he agree to his family being invited when his mother brought it up or did he hum and yah about it and then gave in to make his mom happy</strong>. B/c if you decide not to invite them you need to have his full support and he should be the one telling his mother not you otherwise you will look very bad and probably have a strained relationship with FMIL especially if <strong>ur side was invited and not all of his-yours got save the dates and his didn't.  
    </strong>Posted by ErinW1912[/QUOTE]

    He fought all the family being invited with tooth and nail.  Even though his mom was upset he already nixed 23 second and third cousins a while back and he keeps trying.  Everytime his mom has tried to add more he says no.  If our offer would have been picked today he told his parents, me, and his sister that guest list was dropping to 80 people.  He decided his family would not get save the dates and he wants us to send invitations to his family at the last minute so they will not be able to come.  He just doesn't know them.  One of his cousins has a gender-neutral name and he couldn't tell me if the cousin is a male or female.  So beyond hasn't met them, doesn't even know of them.  I wouldn't NEVER be pro not inviting the extended family if he wanted them there.  But he talks constantly about how he doesn't care if these people come and doesn't want to get sucked into spending time with them at the wedding because he wants to be with me and his friends, not his family.

    The guest list right now is 60 people on my side and 100 people on his.  My side is all OOT.  His side is 95% within 2 hours of our wedding so it is going to be skewed no matter how we tip it.  The difference here is 95% of my side is important to me/us whereas only maybe 30% of his side is important to him/us.  On my side I already have a lot of people who can't come so we could easily end up with 40-45 on each side if we don't invite the extended.  It may not be even on a family count but it is even on a side count which seems fair considering we have no control over his large family or my small family.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-club-boards_september-2012-weddings_house-update-nwr-and-could-use-some-adviceideas-sorry-got-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding Club BoardsForum:a464c18c-2e4d-469b-8eae-3865079cb9cfDiscussion:c352d980-7b15-48e1-9517-0f7aa9f41cffPost:cf3fcbbd-72ff-4c0d-9dbb-cd2052d5fd4e">Re: House update (NWR) and could use some advice/ideas (sorry got long)</a>:
    [QUOTE]Honestly, I would wait to buy a house until you were more financially stable. They look like they're cheaper than renting and they can be but all you need is one major repair and you'll be deeply in debt. If a down payment is this stressful imagine what $6000 worth of well repairs would be like.  This doesn't meant that you can't hold onto some of the wedding budget for a future house when you're more stable. Is FMIL contributing to the cost of the wedding at all? If not she can't really dictate the guest list. Since the guests you want to cut did not get STDs then you're technically in the clear not to invite them. However only you and your FI can decide whether to rock the boat by declining to invite the people she wants there.
    Posted by celticmyss[/QUOTE]

    This, all this.  There are a lot of risks involved with home ownership, and a lot of hidden costs.  You need a savings account in addition to the downpayment to ensure you're ready to cover any unexpected expenses.  Just look at the housing crisis - it was made up of people getting foreclosed on because they didn't have the savings built up to deal with unexpected lack of income for several months.

    I'd say have your FI talk to his Mom about cutting the guest list - we made a simple 2 year rule - if we hadn't seen or spoken to these people in 2 years (FI and I, not our parents), then they don't get invited.  It makes sense - they're not an important part of OUR lives, so we don't need them at OUR wedding.  He can tell her it's to save money to buy a house down the road, and hopefully that will ease the sting of not inviting her side.

    Read the book "The Millionaire Next Door" and it will give you a really good perspective on savings and when it's okay to buy a house and how much to spend on it, etc.  Honestly, that book has changed how I've viewed money, and I've made my whole family read it.

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    edited June 2012
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-club-boards_september-2012-weddings_house-update-nwr-and-could-use-some-adviceideas-sorry-got-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding Club BoardsForum:a464c18c-2e4d-469b-8eae-3865079cb9cfDiscussion:c352d980-7b15-48e1-9517-0f7aa9f41cffPost:d3e8ebd5-3cc7-4202-abef-230c2de1a17a">Re: House update (NWR) and could use some advice/ideas (sorry got long)</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: House update (NWR) and could use some advice/ideas (sorry got long) : This, all this.  There are a lot of risks involved with home ownership, and a lot of hidden costs.  You need a savings account in addition to the downpayment to ensure you're ready to cover any unexpected expenses.  Just look at the housing crisis - it was made up of people getting foreclosed on because they didn't have the savings built up to deal with unexpected lack of income for several months. I'd say have your FI talk to his Mom about cutting the guest list - we made a simple 2 year rule - if we hadn't seen or spoken to these people in 2 years (FI and I, not our parents), then they don't get invited.  It makes sense - they're not an important part of OUR lives, so we don't need them at OUR wedding.  He can tell her it's to save money to buy a house down the road, and hopefully that will ease the sting of not inviting her side. Read the book "The Millionaire Next Door" and it will give you a really good perspective on savings and when it's okay to buy a house and how much to spend on it, etc.  Honestly, that book has changed how I've viewed money, and I've made my whole family read it.
    Posted by calindi[/QUOTE]

    Bingo! I was just about to write the exact same thing, and when I came back to write it, you beat me to it. THIS EXACTLY. Also, don't forget that you have taxes to pay each year too... school, property (or wait, do you not have property taxes in FL? I forgot), along with insurance for all that crazy weather you get there. And what if you lose YOUR job out of nowhere? As calindi said, thats how so many people sank themselves in the past few years. They get the excitement of "Oh we can get a loan!" Sure you can get the loan but without a safety cushion of money underneath you, you are totally screwed.

    One thing I also was thinking of, what if your FI doesn't get into this other department he's trying for? What if he finds one an hour or more away? Or find a job opening in his old career field that is perfect, but its in another state? Houses can be anchors, and if you just bought it, you are not going to want to move out so soon. Plus its costly to move again.
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