Church Rules and Tattoos

daffydillie

I have been sooo fortunate to avoid most of the typical wedding drama until right now.

I have red and black hair, some piercings, 2 half sleeves, and my church has asked we cover our shoulders and offensive tattoos.

Not an issue at all. It works out great that a bolero jacket covers all of my tattoos and all of my bridesmaids tattoos that would be considered "offensive" to the church.

I was straight forward with the ladies involved in the wedding that our shoulders would have to be covered along with offensive tattoos and if they did not want to do that we would understand if they didnt want to stand with us at the church.

All was well. FSIL guilted me infront of all her family to be a bridesmaid and I reluctantly agreed knowing darn well it was going to be nothing but drama drama drama.

Well now here we are just a few short weeks out and she is stirring trouble and is "offended" that we want her to cover her Pagan, Wiccan, and Satanic symbols and that I asked her to be modest with alterations and didnt want her cleavage hanging out.

I gave the bridesmaids the options of finding their own jackets because they complained the one at the bridal shop were too expensive and now here we are and they havent found anything. So I am just going to the bridal store and buying the one I wanted to in the beginning. Even with the bolero, the dresses are still $75 under budget.

I am so fustrated with FSIL. I refuse to offend the Pastor of the church we go to because FSIL wants to be a jerk. The part that ticks me off is she was just in a good friend of mine's wedding and HAD ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM with the SAME RULES. I think when you have pagan, wiccan, and satanic symbols all over you, you make a commitment to cover them to be in a church to be respectful.

::end vent::

**edit terrible iphone spelling.

Simply Fated

If it's the church's rule, then it's out of your hands.

SlothGoals

If FSIL doesn't want to adhere to the rules of the church that is on her. Will the church physically stop her from participating in the wedding? Perhaps you can just let her know exactly what the church expects and how they will handle those who do not follow their rules.

Summer2011Bride

In this case, because it is the Church's rule and not just an arbitrary thing you came up with, if she doesn't want to follow them, then you need to let her know she won't be able to attend the ceremony in that Church.

daffydillie

I have no reason to really disapprove of her tattoos other than they are offensive and not church appropriate and I have had enough of her attitude and trash talking. She is one of those people that does outlandish things to get attention. The tattoos she has on her shoulder blades are offensive. They are naked demons. In addition to your run of the mill pentagrams, I cant remember what the one is on her forearms but she has them from the pagan time of her life, and she has a paw print and the 3 of swords in her cleavage. She wore cutoff jean shorts and a skimpy tank top to our friend's rehearsal and I thought the priest was going to die on the spot.  

I am not even certain she understands what all of her tattoos mean. I think she more or less got most of them for the shock and awe of them. It is her choice afterall, but getting naked demons and bloody pentagrams come with a responsibility and knowledge that people may be offended by them.

I dont have problems with ink. I am probably the most inked out of all of us but I knew when I got my tattoos there was a commitment I was making for life to cover them if the situation warranted it. She is just being a brat.  

NOLAbridealmost

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_church-rules-and-tattoos?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:abd900cb-0a9f-4899-8634-dbfb545c25d4Post:8f751a4a-fd82-43b4-be67-05d6aa905a90">Re:Church Rules and Tattoos</a>:
[QUOTE]Yep, church rules equals they need to do it.

However, I am interested in why she has "pagan", "Wiccan", AND "Satanic" symbols, and what these symbols are.
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]



Tats are permanent but people's religious views can evolve.

daffydillie

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_church-rules-and-tattoos?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:abd900cb-0a9f-4899-8634-dbfb545c25d4Post:bf256b32-8084-40f7-9883-b2745c67c4b2">Re:Church Rules and Tattoos</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:Church Rules and Tattoos : Tats are permanent but people's religious views can evolve.
Posted by NOLAbridealmost[/QUOTE]

This.

Currently she's on a WIccan "polyamory" kick. I am sure she is going to pitch a fit when I do not invite all of her "boyfriends" to the wedding. That is another whole can of worms I do not want to even touch with a 10 foot pole. We have some polyarmous triads that we are inviting because they are a social unit but this situation just fustrates me.

kerbohl

Fortunately in this situation you can say that it is the church rules and not necessarily your own, so she has no grounds to get angry at you (unless she starts blaming you for getting married in your church).  Keep being rational in the face of her irrationality, and she will come off looking like the brat and you will be lauded as the sane one. 
I'm sorry that you have to deal with this drama though!  Hopefully FSIL stops acting like this soon!

daffydillie

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_church-rules-and-tattoos?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:abd900cb-0a9f-4899-8634-dbfb545c25d4Post:4c5b118a-30ef-405a-8f6d-040840723570">Re: Church Rules and Tattoos</a>:
[QUOTE]Fortunately in this situation you can say that it is the church rules and not necessarily your own, so she has no grounds to get angry at you <strong>(unless she starts blaming you for getting married in your church</strong>).  Keep being rational in the face of her irrationality, and she will come off looking like the brat and you will be lauded as the sane one.  I'm sorry that you have to deal with this drama though!  Hopefully FSIL stops acting like this soon!
Posted by kerbohl[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that one has been tossed at us for getting married in our church. Fortuantely, everyone has been super supportive of us and our decision. But it is an utter nightmare. Knowing how she is it is probably going to progressively get worse until the wedding and I will almost guarantee that she will "forget" her jacket. FI and I along with VIPs to the ceremony have already had the discussion and stand behind that if she "forgets" she will not be allowed in the church. It is a conservative church and we will not allow her to act a fool and be disrespectful to our church and their members. But, considering she did not pull any of this for our friends wedding all she is really doing is hurting FI and I feel bad for him.

egeurts

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_church-rules-and-tattoos?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:abd900cb-0a9f-4899-8634-dbfb545c25d4Post:8dfa9bdf-7205-4e48-8c65-bb0d6e3f408b">Re: Church Rules and Tattoos</a>:
[QUOTE]Daffy, I do not know how much the jackets cost, but can you order another one and have someone (your mom?) have it with her at the church? I am sorry for this entire saga, including your being guilted into incuding her in WP.
Posted by NYUgirl100[/QUOTE]

<div>Or even if not a jacket, maybe just a cheaper shawl of the same color (I know you said the jackets were spendy)? She'll "forget" her jacket, and you can conveniently say "Well, we happened to have this on hand"... :)</div>

jessicabessica

I would buy a wrap and have it at the church, so you can give it to her to wear if she "forgets" her jacket.  Macy's has everyday value wraps in a bunch of colors for $25--just get one in a color that will work, and you can keep it for yourself or return it if she turns out not to need it.

banana468

I'd stick with the backup jacket. If she's the type to forget the jacket on purpose then she's also going to allow the wrap to slide down and expose the very things the church required covering.

Peledreamsofrain

what Jessica said, x10000.

Have an emergency wrap on hand at the church.  Remove all chances that her not standing up there could be blamed on you.  If you give her every option possible, and she refuses at every step, then it's on her when she has to sit out.

kmmssg

In Response to Re:Church Rules and Tattoos:[QUOTE]I'd stick with the backup jacket. If she's the type to forget the jacket on purpose then she's also going to allow the wrap to slide down and expose the very things the church required covering. Posted by banana468[/QUOTE]

This. Has FI specifically asked her why she is acting like this for his wedding but not the friends? If I were him I would be calling her out on this in front of siblings and parents.
The good news is you have the family backing you up.
I have a very dear long time friend who is.a Baptist minister. I can PROMISE you he would stop things right there at the altar if any of her mentioned tats were showing. The altar is a sacred place in his church and her antics would be stopped and she would be removed.

Have you talked to your pastor about this? My friend would be your best allie if you alerted him to the situation. He would make sure he saw her before the processional and that she was good to go. He would never have allowed her at the altar for rehearsal like your friend's Priest did.
Good luck!

AddieCake

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_church-rules-and-tattoos?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:abd900cb-0a9f-4899-8634-dbfb545c25d4Post:f4e2710d-af71-4fc9-91ee-a702dcc80e4a">Re:Church Rules and Tattoos</a>:
[QUOTE]If it's the church's rule, then it's out of your hands.
Posted by Simply Fated[/QUOTE]
Exactly. She's being ridiculous. I suppose she wants to just ignore "no shirt, no shoes, no service" signs in restaurants as well? 

PrettyGirlLost

If the church is asking everyone to cover their shoulders, perhaps it is conservative enough to think any and all tattoos are offensive?

Just curious OP, what kind of church is this. . . Catholic, Presby, etc?  I'm getting married in the Catholic church, and asked our Pastor about bare shoulders and he said there was no church rule forbidding it.  I never even thought to ask about tats. . . I have two BMs that have some big, beautiful shoulder tats.

StephJean83

I have a Celtic Trinity Knot tattoo on my neck base. My mom wanted me to cover it for my sister's wedding in a Southern Baptist Church. The pastor said if the bride didn't mind if it was exposed, he wouldn't mind.

[Deleted User]

I'm happy to hear that your other BM aren't giving you any issues about the jacket, especially since it's just for church & it is the church rules. You may be better off just telling her that you respect the fact that she doesn't want to have to cover her tattoos up for any reason but since it's a requirement of the church, and it's important to you & FI to get married in this church and to continue going there afterwards (I'm assuming you're members based on posts) that if she doesn't feel comfortable covering up for the ceremony, you'll need to change her from BM to a regular guest. Sounds like there will a tantrum thrown afterwards but it sounds like she would cause drama no matter what. Stand firm.

In regards to her boyfriends, just tell her that due to budget she can only bring 1 guest and she must choose who that 1 person will be. Again, you'll have to stand firm.

Sounds like she always causes drama to get attention and family has just let her get away with it and it's time someone calls her out on her behavior. Remember your wedding is about you and your FI.

PrettyGirlLost

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_church-rules-and-tattoos?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:abd900cb-0a9f-4899-8634-dbfb545c25d4Post:c54e25e8-1651-49e6-beae-751fe246c74c">Re:Church Rules and Tattoos</a>:
[QUOTE] We're more worried about <strong>naked fairies</strong> and crucifixes with skeletons hanging on them."
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

Wha?  Because of the nudity or because they are fairies?

PrettyGirlLost

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_church-rules-and-tattoos?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:abd900cb-0a9f-4899-8634-dbfb545c25d4Post:c42e27a4-260a-4640-8396-0ce1b389b4ad">Re:Church Rules and Tattoos</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:Church Rules and Tattoos: Nudity. They did not nudity, violence or gore, or anything directly insulting the Christian religion. He was giving examples of past issues they had. He also mentioned a groomsman that had a cross made out of feces on his forearm. They had asked that be covered at the rehearsal as well. When we asked about music, he said secular music was fine, so long as it was respectful and in keeping with the reverence of the event. We asked about having "I'm Yours" sung and he replied "Oh yes, that will be fine. But <strong>last summer we had a bride walk down the aisle to Save a Horse, Ride a Cowboy. We would like to avoid a repeat of that.</strong>"
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

Hahahaha!  I'm sorry but I love that song, and my horse appreciates it too ;-)

efmcc67

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_church-rules-and-tattoos?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:abd900cb-0a9f-4899-8634-dbfb545c25d4Post:c42e27a4-260a-4640-8396-0ce1b389b4ad">Re:Church Rules and Tattoos</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:Church Rules and Tattoos: Nudity. They did not nudity, violence or gore, or anything directly insulting the Christian religion. He was giving examples of past issues they had. He also mentioned a groomsman that had a cross made out of feces on his forearm. They had asked that be covered at the rehearsal as well. When we asked about music, he said secular music was fine, so long as it was respectful and in keeping with the reverence of the event. We asked about having "I'm Yours" sung and he replied "Oh yes, that will be fine. <strong>But last summer we had a bride walk down the aisle to Save a Horse, Ride a Cowboy. We would like to avoid a repeat of that.</strong>"
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

<div>Hee hee. I can see why that might have ruffled a few feathers.</div>

Jen4948

If the church refuses to allow visible tattoos, then your FSIL needs to suck it up and follow those rules if she wants to be in your wedding party.  Otherwise, she'll have to stand down.  Those are the only options available-to her, not to you.

I'd let her know that if she feels so offended by the church's rule that she needs to step down or even not attend, then while she'll be missed, it's solely her problem.

daffydillie

FI has talked to her and so have I. Its really just her being a spoiled brat.

I would do the wrap thing except a few of you have mentioned her, she let it slide down at my friends wedding and the service was stopped while the priest glared at her. Our friend was horrified and has not talked to her since. She just likes to be the center of attention and any attention is better than no attention.

Ive talked to our Pastor about it. She has an assistant that is going to make sure she does not act a fool. FIs grandmother (both our mothers are deceased) and father have already told us to kick her out of the wedding over her antics but I am trying to make her do it yourself if she cant play by the rules.

Thanks for the suggestions, I dont know if I am going to buy her an extra jacket I may consider that but I am to the point where she is in her late 20s, engaged, and should be able to handle herself appropriately and needs to face the consequences of being a brat. If I do that, there is no guarantee she will not try something else that is stupid and I really do not want any cermony interuptions.

As for the church- they were ok with my tattoo on my forearm because it would be covered with flowers and was a koi fish and the other bridesmaids music symbols and bat symbols. They drew the line at blood covered anarchy symbols and dark Wiccan art. They also asked the guys because they did not want skulls and crossbones kind of thing. They are really reasonable, just FSIL is not.

This is where the disclaimer FSIL was a very good friend of mine for 10 years before I started dating her brother and since we "got serious" has done everything in her power to sabatoge our relationship. When they did not work, she got "engaged" for the fourth time. She then was cheating on her FI and her FI caught her. So her and her FI decided they were going to be in a Polyarmourous relationship with this guy she cheated with then she was just caught cheating on her triad and is now trying to add another guy to their group all while living with her dad that is livid. So FFIL is fine with whatever we decide because her antics are getting way out of control and dangerous to her health and wellbeing. We also had to have a talk to her about illicit drug use because she went to the dress fitting with drugs on her and the bridal consulatant commented she smelled something "funny."

If it is not about appropriate dress its about her tattoos, if it isnt about her tattoos its about her harem of boyfriends, and if it isnt about that its about her drug use.

All I asked of her is to keep her cleavage covered and dress altered correctly, her tattoos covered in the church, to just have her FI with her because we do not have room at the head table for who else she is dating, and not bring illicit drugs to the reception and do it before or afterwards because I have police, doctors, military, and politicians going to our wedding that are just not going to be ok with FSIL lighting up around back or at the firehall we are having our reception in and I do not want to be in a position where I have to take sides because it will not be hers on that front.

Amyzen83

So why, exactly, did you ask this horrible person to be in your wedding again?

Just be firm and let her know that if her tats aren't covered on the wedding day, she will not be in the wedding, then let it go. Stop stressing, stop bringing it up, stop engaging her when she brings it up. Come the wedding day, she'll be in the wedding or she won't.

THIS! Sorry she's doing this to you! She sounds like drama central.

daffydillie

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_church-rules-and-tattoos?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:abd900cb-0a9f-4899-8634-dbfb545c25d4Post:4186445a-e1fd-4975-baec-efd1c1335414">Re:Church Rules and Tattoos</a>:
[QUOTE]<strong>So why, exactly, did you ask this horrible person to be in your wedding again?</strong> Just be firm and let her know that if her tats aren't covered on the wedding day, she will not be in the wedding, then let it go. Stop stressing, stop bringing it up, stop engaging her when she brings it up. Come the wedding day, she'll be in the wedding or she won't.
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

Well, to be fair I thought she was going to be reasonable. She actually had escalated dramatically since FI and I have decided to get married. The closer to the day the worse she is getting.

She was begging me infront of all of FI's family and laid on a major guilt trip. It was pretty terrible. One of FI's aunts said it would be rude of me not accept such a kind offer. It was the proverbial rock and hard place.

Ive stopped engaging and just tell her bluntly how it is. It was to the point the other day that I had to actually get between her and my best friend arguing and was like FSIL stop, you are not the only one with tattoos that has to cover them we all do and this is just what needs to be done. We picked a wrap we ALL could wear so you would not be singled out and there is not much we can do from here. You either get it or you dont but if you dont dont bother coming to the church.

Thanks for letting me vent here. Its much better banging my head off a keyboard here then poking the bear.

Amyzen83

So sorry for all of this! I'm glad that you were firm with her and told her what will happen. This is not your fault! The church has made their rules perfectly clear about certain tattoos, and if she's going to be rude and disrespectful and use your wedding as a way for her to protest, then she doesn't need to be in it. I'm thinking that so you don't look like the bad guy kicking her out, if there is another leader in the church working in part of the ceremony, perhaps you could warn them about this bridesmaid and let them deal with her. Or have your coordinator deal with her. You shouldn't have to stress out over this on your wedding day.