started the prenup ball rolling

MissMolly

My regular lawyer recommended me to a matrimonial lawyer a couple weeks ago, and my appointment with her was today. She seems really good, and I love the fact that she talks to me like a regular person in jargon that I understand, rather than legalese! But wow, I didn't realize that things like this were so convoluted, not to mention expensive. I walked in thinking around the $500 mark. Yeah, times that by 3 in terms of prenup agreement cost. It was a costly day for this kid today! But, the ball is rolling on it.

Question though: FH was planning on moving in with me this weekend. Should this still happen, or would you guys recommend holding this off until the process is done and all documents are signed? The lawyer recommended the latter, saying that if he moves in then refuses to sign the prenup, I either am forced to concede and not have a prenup, or I would have to end things.

MissMolly

He actually is the one who brought up the initial prenup conversation awhile ago, so this isn't a surprise. What I think will be a surprise is how in-depth they are, and how expensive it is to get one in place. We both agree that what we bring into the mix is our own, and what we do going forwards is ours as a couple.

MissMolly

Liatris2010 said:

I would say regardless of when he moves in, he will have to agree to the pre-nup, you will have to not have it, or you two will break up. Those are the only three possible outcomes.

Have you discussed a pre-nup already? I'd want my H to talk to me before talking to a lawyer about something like that. I wouldn't mind a pre-nup, but I would mind one being drawn up by H and his lawyer before it was ever mentioned to me.

Oh yes, we have talked about this, and he knows that I had made an appt. with a lawyer. He has yet to talk to anyone, but will be doing so shortly.

MissMolly

Okay, here's the latest on the prenup front. FH and I agreed that he would still ,I've in this weekend, and both of us felt really good about that plan. Prior to this decision, I had casually mentioned what the lawyer had said, to my mom, and mom started in on the warnings: "you better not let him move in because you just never know what will happen". So, I called my sister, who is a little more grounded and level-headed than our mom. She said that she didn't see any reason not to move in, but to just double-check things wi my lawyer. So, I did this. Sis has come back in text messages saying that our agreement wouldn't be binding (would be null and void?) if he moved in, and that I really should wait. FH didn't move in this weekend, much to the disappointment of both of us, but, my folks get back home after holidays on Wednesday, and FH and I plan on talking with them about it. They are most of the reason that I asked FH to wait on the move in. Last time my folks and I had a disagreement, it ended with me injuring myself in front of mom, and spending some time seeing a psychologist. I know that if we stuck to the plan this weekend, it would be WW3 with my folks. Don't get me wrong, they're very supportive parents, of the things that they agree with. If they don't agree with it, all hell breaks loose. I just didn't want to deal with that. Again. Sigh, not much to this. Just needed to get it out.

easilyunamused

Why do you and your family not trust your FI enough to let him move in before the prenup is signed?

daveANDkristen

Supportive of things they agree with =/= supportive. I honestly think you need to continue therapy and work on your relationship with your parents. This is not healthy behavior and you should not allow them to have such control over your adult life. ETA: If I was your FI, I would be running for the fucking hills if this didn't change fast.

Sierra524

I am just curious as to why your parents have anything to do with this? You're an adult, right? So why are you letting your parents have any say in this decision? This is something that should be between you, your FI and your lawyer.

ravenray

Alesha1978 said:

Okay, here's the latest on the prenup front. FH and I agreed that he would still ,I've in this weekend, and both of us felt really good about that plan. Prior to this decision, I had casually mentioned what the lawyer had said, to my mom, and mom started in on the warnings: "you better not let him move in because you just never know what will happen". So, I called my sister, who is a little more grounded and level-headed than our mom. She said that she didn't see any reason not to move in, but to just double-check things wi my lawyer. So, I did this. Sis has come back in text messages saying that our agreement wouldn't be binding (would be null and void?) if he moved in, and that I really should wait. FH didn't move in this weekend, much to the disappointment of both of us, but, my folks get back home after holidays on Wednesday, and FH and I plan on talking with them about it. They are most of the reason that I asked FH to wait on the move in. Last time my folks and I had a disagreement, it ended with me injuring myself in front of mom, and spending some time seeing a psychologist. I know that if we stuck to the plan this weekend, it would be WW3 with my folks. Don't get me wrong, they're very supportive parents, of the things that they agree with. If they don't agree with it, all hell breaks loose. I just didn't want to deal with that. Again. Sigh, not much to this. Just needed to get it out.

I'm pretty sure moving in, unless stated in the pre-nup as making the contract void, will not violate the contract.  

I think your parents are overly involved in your life.  Honestly, if I was going to move in with my FH and my parents didn't like it, I would do it anyways.  I also think you need counseling.  Harming yourself when arguing is not a good thing and it's not a good sign that is where you think things will go there if you argue with them again.  Please see someone and soon.  

MissMolly

No, my sister work at an optometric place. I did talk to the lawyer directly, and she said that the reason she recommends couples not move in together before the paperwork is signed is because if he decides not to sign, I'm faced with the decision of no prenup, or kicking him out of my home.

tarradesign said:

Your sis is a lawyer?  I think plenty of couples that get married and have pre-nups live together before they marry.  I'd make sure that you talk to a lawyer directly. 

Sierra524

If he is on board with the idea, why would you worry about him not signing? If a prenup is something he rly wants, he will sign the papers regardless of your living situation.

ETA: you say that your parents are very controlling of you and your opinion doesn't matter. None of that seems right to me. I agree with PPs who say you should continue therapy. You're an adult, getting married and starting your life. Time to put your big girl panties on and tell your parents to back off. You will be so much happier when you start to live your life the way YOU want.

MissMolly

I trust him with my life. My parent tend to think the worst. Actually, my mom tends tot hunk the worst in a given situation, and drags my dad along with her. My parent and family in general has always been very controlling of me (I'm the youngest, and ,y opinion has never meant much). I don't think this is about trust though on their part, but about following legal advice.

Bmarie1316 said:

Why do you and your family not trust your FI enough to let him move in before the prenup is signed?

Bmarie1316 said:

Why do you and your family not trust your FI enough to let him move in before the prenup is signed?

MissMolly

I'm pretty sure of the same thing. I mean, what happens when a couple lives together for months, then goes, "oh yeah, I guess we should look into a prenup...". I realize that a prenup outside of marriage is called a cohabitation agreement though. I agree, harming oneself is very bad, which is why I've already spent some time in counselling. I had met all of my goals, and have more balls now than I did a few months ago. The only reason I'm on the fence about this situation is because our wedding is 2 months away, and I'd really like to avoid world war 3 if at all possible. And the more I type, the more I realize that I need to grow some larger balls. I'm pretty sure moving in, unless stated in the pre-nup as making the contract void, will not violate the contract.  

I think your parents are overly involved in your life.  Honestly, if I was going to move in with my FH and my parents didn't like it, I would do it anyways.  I also think you need counseling.  Harming yourself when arguing is not a good thing and it's not a good sign that is where you think things will go there if you argue with them again.  Please see someone and soon.  

ravenray

Alesha1978 said:

I trust him with my life. My parent tend to think the worst. Actually, my mom tends tot hunk the worst in a given situation, and drags my dad along with her. My parent and family in general has always been very controlling of me (I'm the youngest, and ,y opinion has never meant much). I don't think this is about trust though on their part, but about following legal advice.

Bmarie1316 said:

Why do you and your family not trust your FI enough to let him move in before the prenup is signed?

Bmarie1316 said:

Why do you and your family not trust your FI enough to let him move in before the prenup is signed?

Your lawyer never said that you shouldn't move in, only that she would wait.  Which doesn't make much sense to me anyways.  Plus your opinion should matter most of all when it comes to your family. 

Also, your parents are way over involved in your life.  If you describe them as controlling that is not a good sign.  You should get counseling, your situation doesn't sound healthy.  

MissMolly

Thank-you for that, and I certainly hope that he doesn't head for the hills. Might I also add that this is the man who, at 43, lives with his mom, and pushed the move in date back to accommodate her, and I didn't head for the hills. I also don't think that running at the first sign of something uh-oh-like is a healthy thing to do. Working through things, and being supportive of one another is, regardless of their upbringing or their past. However, as for this not being healthy behaviour, and not letting my family have so much control over my life, you're right. Simply put, I want my parents to walk me down the aisle, and my sister to be my matron of honour. This is probably selfish of me, but this is what I would like for that day, and if we're in the middle of all hell breaking loose, chances are good, this wouldn't take place, and it would break my heart. FH moving in should be a happy time for me. I shouldn't be going through personal hell, and having it affect my family relationship, especially when FH is alright with putting the move in off by a week or two.

daveANDkristen said: Supportive of things they agree with =/= supportive. I honestly think you need to continue therapy and work on your relationship with your parents. This is not healthy behavior and you should not allow them to have such control over your adult life. ETA: If I was your FI, I would be running for the fucking hills if this didn't change fast.

MissMolly

I'm sorry, my iPad seems to be doing funky things with posts and quoting some people. Apparently, it doesn't deal well with paragraphs either.

Viczaesar

Alesha1978 said:

Okay, here's the latest on the prenup front. FH and I agreed that he would still ,I've in this weekend, and both of us felt really good about that plan. Prior to this decision, I had casually mentioned what the lawyer had said, to my mom, and mom started in on the warnings: "you better not let him move in because you just never know what will happen". So, I called my sister, who is a little more grounded and level-headed than our mom. She said that she didn't see any reason not to move in, but to just double-check things wi my lawyer. So, I did this. Sis has come back in text messages saying that our agreement wouldn't be binding (would be null and void?) if he moved in, and that I really should wait. FH didn't move in this weekend, much to the disappointment of both of us, but, my folks get back home after holidays on Wednesday, and FH and I plan on talking with them about it. They are most of the reason that I asked FH to wait on the move in. Last time my folks and I had a disagreement, it ended with me injuring myself in front of mom, and spending some time seeing a psychologist. I know that if we stuck to the plan this weekend, it would be WW3 with my folks. Don't get me wrong, they're very supportive parents, of the things that they agree with. If they don't agree with it, all hell breaks loose. I just didn't want to deal with that. Again. Sigh, not much to this. Just needed to get it out.

Um, what?  It sounds like you have much bigger issues to work out than your prenup.  It should be none of your family's business when your FI moves in with you. 

MissMolly

Sierra, I tried this. Backstory: moving in with FH and his mom was an option at one point. I talked through some of these decisions with those close to me, and I shouldn't have. Mom freaked out because she's not wild about FMIL. At any rate, she went though why that was a stupid idea with me 3 times. I told mom to let this subject go. Then, my folks ca,e over, warning me that they needed to talk to me, and asked me to make sure FH wasn't there. When they arrived, mom went though the stupidity 4 more times. I was frustrated, upset, angry, and had told her once to back off. I lost it. Yelling, bawling. I pounded the counter with my right hand, caught the edge of the raised sink lip, and effectively bruised and swelled my hand. 20 minutes after they left, I googled psychologists near me, made an appt, and called FH to tell him what had went down. Yeah, good times.

Sierra524 said:

If he is on board with the idea, why would you worry about him not signing? If a prenup is something he rly wants, he will sign the papers regardless of your living situation. ETA: you say that your parents are very controlling of you and your opinion doesn't matter. None of that seems right to me. I agree with PPs who say you should continue therapy. You're an adult, getting married and starting your life. Time to put your big girl panties on and tell your parents to back off. You will be so much happier when you start to live your life the way YOU want.

ravenray

I know you don't want to cut them out of your life but every time you post more information, I wonder why you want them in your life.  I know you want them at your wedding but is it worth living your life constantly trapped to make sure you please them just so they are there for your wedding?  I know it's not an easy or quick decisions but it might be something you want to think about.  Or at least start limiting your contact with them.  They want to talk about the pre-nup?  Say "I have made my choice, have you tried the bean dip"  Stay firm even when they go back to it.  

Good luck.  

nextrightthing

Don't talk to your parents about your decisions.  If it hasn't already, it is going to cause trouble in your relationship.  You don't need their approval.

I'm glad you sought help to deal with your outburst.  I think that is important, although pounding on a counter isn't the kind of self-harm I thought you meant. 

As for the prenup and whether you should move in before or not, this needs to be your decision.  Your lawyer is telling you that this could cause trouble if you break up over the prenup.  If you are fairly confident that you are not going to break up over the prenup because he already knows about it and is on board, I don't think you should change your plans.  Your parents are not people to discuss this with - they aren't lawyers!

I'm picturing you as fairly young (23?) and I'm thinking mom and dad either financially support you or you have a trust fund or something.  Is that accurate at all?

s-aries8990

If you want to move in with FI, and both he and you agree that the terms of the pre-nup won't be affected by cohabitation, then let him fucking move in!

If you were to break up, you would be kicking him out of the house anyway, so I don't see their logic. It's really none of your mom's business. If she brings it up again tell her you know her opinion and you don't need to hear it again.

I'm also on the "seek counseling" bandwagon.

sdg2502

I think that as someone said earlier, you have three options if be doesn't sign the pre nup. I don't think moving in together changes that. If he moved in and then refused to sign the pre nup before the wedding, I don't think you'd want the wedding to happen so it would make no difference. I'd just move in together. I sympathise with having a controlling mother and honestly, I have dealt with my mother much better since meeting, moving in with and being in a great relationship with my FI. Good luck, keep us updated and I hope everything works out.

QueerFemme

I know I'm late to this party, but really? Why in the hell are you talking to your sister and your parents about a prenup between you and your FI.  If you are grown up enough to get married, you are grown up enough to make financial and marital decisions on your own with the advice of an attorney or financial planner. 

And sorry if this offends you, but your parents sound like total assholes.  There is no way I would be talking to them about anything other than "pass the green beans" at thanksgiving.

MissMolly

nextrightthing said:

Don't talk to your parents about your decisions.  If it hasn't already, it is going to cause trouble in your relationship.  You don't need their approval.

I'm glad you sought help to deal with your outburst.  I think that is important, although pounding on a counter isn't the kind of self-harm I thought you meant. 

As for the prenup and whether you should move in before or not, this needs to be your decision.  Your lawyer is telling you that this could cause trouble if you break up over the prenup.  If you are fairly confident that you are not going to break up over the prenup because he already knows about it and is on board, I don't think you should change your plans.  Your parents are not people to discuss this with - they aren't lawyers!

I'm picturing you as fairly young (23?) and I'm thinking mom and dad either financially support you or you have a trust fund or something.  Is that accurate at all?

Oh my God, no! I'm 35, have purchased 2 homes, and am quite financially sufficient. They don't support me in any way at all. The only thing that they did for me to help me out prior to purchasing the first home many years ago, is they let me live with them rent-free to save for the downpayment. As for a trust fund, I don't have one, so far as I know. I do have my own investments though, that I bought.

[Deleted User]

Alesha1978 said:

nextrightthing said:

Don't talk to your parents about your decisions.  If it hasn't already, it is going to cause trouble in your relationship.  You don't need their approval.

I'm glad you sought help to deal with your outburst.  I think that is important, although pounding on a counter isn't the kind of self-harm I thought you meant. 

As for the prenup and whether you should move in before or not, this needs to be your decision.  Your lawyer is telling you that this could cause trouble if you break up over the prenup.  If you are fairly confident that you are not going to break up over the prenup because he already knows about it and is on board, I don't think you should change your plans.  Your parents are not people to discuss this with - they aren't lawyers!

I'm picturing you as fairly young (23?) and I'm thinking mom and dad either financially support you or you have a trust fund or something.  Is that accurate at all?

Oh my God, no! I'm 35, have purchased 2 homes, and am quite financially sufficient. They don't support me in any way at all. The only thing that they did for me to help me out prior to purchasing the first home many years ago, is they let me live with them rent-free to save for the downpayment. As for a trust fund, I don't have one, so far as I know. I do have my own investments though, that I bought.

Then I REALLY don't understand why you're telling them things like the details of your prenup.

QueerFemme

Alesha1978 said:

nextrightthing said:

Don't talk to your parents about your decisions.  If it hasn't already, it is going to cause trouble in your relationship.  You don't need their approval.

I'm glad you sought help to deal with your outburst.  I think that is important, although pounding on a counter isn't the kind of self-harm I thought you meant. 

As for the prenup and whether you should move in before or not, this needs to be your decision.  Your lawyer is telling you that this could cause trouble if you break up over the prenup.  If you are fairly confident that you are not going to break up over the prenup because he already knows about it and is on board, I don't think you should change your plans.  Your parents are not people to discuss this with - they aren't lawyers!

I'm picturing you as fairly young (23?) and I'm thinking mom and dad either financially support you or you have a trust fund or something.  Is that accurate at all?

Oh my God, no! I'm 35, have purchased 2 homes, and am quite financially sufficient. They don't support me in any way at all. The only thing that they did for me to help me out prior to purchasing the first home many years ago, is they let me live with them rent-free to save for the downpayment. As for a trust fund, I don't have one, so far as I know. I do have my own investments though, that I bought.

If you are so financially sufficient, why are you running your financial decisions past them?

MissMolly

cmgilpin said:

If you are so financially sufficient, why are you running your financial decisions past them?

Actually, I don't see this as a financial decision. The reason I even mentioned anything about it to them is because mom was on my back, insisting that I go see a lawyer for a prenup. She was overly concerned, she knew I had an appt setup with a lawyer, and asked how it went. Of course, me stupidly thinking that it's harmless to tell her, told her. Yeah, I really need to learn to keep my mouth shut. As it stands, FH is planning on moving in this coming weekend, after we have a little chat with my folks. Thing is that i know they'll be sweet as pie in front of him, then let me have it when he isn't around. This is when all of the things I learned through the psychologist will come into play, and I will see how well I can actually handle them.

runpipparun

@Alesha1978 - Your parents sound a lot like my FI's. He grew up in such a way that he was not allowed emotional space or privacy from them. They demanded to know everything, and he just... gave it. But when his mom attempted to involve herself in our sex life (after we had a small argument that he told her about --- of course, she told him that he needed to stop sleeping with me because it was obviously clouding his judgement about me), I gave him an ultimatum.

He's never seen a professional, but we've read Emotional Blackmail, which was amazing, and If You Had Controlling Parents, which was really good. After a year, we ended up cutting his folks off, because they were unwilling to admit their toxic behavior, apologize, and make any changes.

If you stick to your guns, you can change yourself, even if you parent won't change.

krichards0527

@runpipparun Thank you for recommending those books! I emailed FI the links to those on Amazon... looks like we have some reading to do! It has been hell dealing with FI's parents- these sound perfect to help sort out some issues

MissMolly

runpipparun said:

@Alesha1978 - Your parents sound a lot like my FI's. He grew up in such a way that he was not allowed emotional space or privacy from them. They demanded to know everything, and he just... gave it. But when his mom attempted to involve herself in our sex life (after we had a small argument that he told her about --- of course, she told him that he needed to stop sleeping with me because it was obviously clouding his judgement about me), I gave him an ultimatum.

He's never seen a professional, but we've read Emotional Blackmail, which was amazing, and If You Had Controlling Parents, which was really good. After a year, we ended up cutting his folks off, because they were unwilling to admit their toxic behavior, apologize, and make any changes.

If you stick to your guns, you can change yourself, even if you parent won't change.

Absolutely, that is what I want to see happen. For the good majority of 35 years, I've lived to please my parents. I've broken off plans with friends (while living with my folks) because they didn't want me going to certain places, I broke off a relationship because my family hated the guy, I've tried my damnedest, sometimes succeeding, sometimes failing, and I'm exhausted. I don't want to break off whatever relationship we have, but it does need to change, and I have to be the one to change it. The psychologist said that I'm not responsible for anyone's feelings or actions other than my own; how they choose to react to something is their issue, not mine. Hell, Dad stormed out of my house once due to anger, and I apologized to him. Yeah, no more. I'm taking back my life, and if they can't deal with it, then the ceremony will be moved from my folks' backyard to somewhere else that accepts dogs, and they don't need to attend.

ETA: runpippa, thanks a bunch for those book recs; I've added them to my wishlist in amazon.

runpipparun

Sure thing. We've been through it. I think one of the most hurtful things my FI's mom said, when he told her he was changing himself because he wanted to be more assertive in his personal relationships and put his desires first, was, "Well, I liked you better before you changed."

It's definitely not been easy. We've gotten calls, texts, emails, and FB messages from his mother's family and friends telling us how awful we are. We've even gotten one message from a friend of hers compelling us to change our sinful ways, telling my FI he's "outside the Will of God" because he's engaging in sex outside of marriage and that his soul is at stake. (Does EVERYONE know that we bang?) The rest of his family has cut him off, too, because he's cut his mother off. Now, only his cousin is attending our wedding.

But, we're happier, SOOOO much happier than we were a year ago dealing with the craziness, the demands, the tantrums, and him feeling compelled to give in to all of it.

ETA: It helped that the book prepared us for the onslaught of messages from friends and family. Apparently people who control are good at recruiting "helpers" to make their "targets" feel bad...

QueerFemme

Alesha1978 said:

cmgilpin said:

If you are so financially sufficient, why are you running your financial decisions past them?

Actually, I don't see this as a financial decision. The reason I even mentioned anything about it to them is because mom was on my back, insisting that I go see a lawyer for a prenup. She was overly concerned, she knew I had an appt setup with a lawyer, and asked how it went. Of course, me stupidly thinking that it's harmless to tell her, told her. Yeah, I really need to learn to keep my mouth shut. As it stands, FH is planning on moving in this coming weekend, after we have a little chat with my folks. Thing is that i know they'll be sweet as pie in front of him, then let me have it when he isn't around. This is when all of the things I learned through the psychologist will come into play, and I will see how well I can actually handle them.

I don't think its a matter of keeping your mouth shut, it's a matter of setting appropriate boundaries and not letting a parent be "on your back".  If she is on your back about something, you say "thanks for your input, but I have it covered". End of story.

I cannot believe your FI has to have a chat with your folks before moving in.  What is the point of that?