Parenting

bunni727

@StageManager14, can you elaborate a bit on circumcision? Kids are a long way off for us, so we haven't talked about it or looked into it at all. 

I know nothing about it, any further than H is and he's never complained.

Spankings fine with me. My parents did, but I never needed it. It has to be pretty severe to warrant it.

I probably won't sleep with a baby, unless we have one of those nifty cribs that go beside the bed. Baby holsters, on the other hand, seem pretty handy.

Participation awards suck. Any sports I played as a kid we were all given some kind of small trophy or plaque, but there were still bigger, special trophies for definite winners, MVPs, Sportsmanship Awards, and other special things like that, and I'd say that's okay.   

 

Sierra524

I would never have a baby sleep in bed with me. My cousin lost a baby because of this. Her H had rolled over and a pillow suffocated the baby in the middle of the night. They have never been able to let go of the guilt. I am all for the baby sleeping in the same room (just as an infant) but in a bassinet or a crib.

Attachment parenting creeps me the fuck out. There is a girl on my FB who is all for it and post statuses about it all the time. Its annoying.

FI & I have had many talks about spanking. I feel that it is completely okay, as long as its for something that deserved a spanking. FI isnt quite sure yet. He was physically abused as a child by his dad & stepmom, so he is kind of uneasy about the spanking thing. We still have a while to decide tho.

We will def be having our baby circumcised.

daisey18

 So nice to see that people are ok with spanking! My kids were little in the late 90's, and I swore before I had them that I would NEVER do that. Then I had actual children instead of hypothetical ones-ha! I hardly ever spanked, mainly used it to get the kids to stay in timeout- but when they would leave time out more than 3 times, a light swat on the butt worked wonders.

 I used to think circumcision was awful- but it offers so much protection against STD's that I think it might be worth it after all. My ex-husband was uncircumcised though- honestly I am rather neutral about it now. It makes sense both ways to me.

 I will say that my ex and a few other uncircumcised lovers seemed to have more issues with premature ejaculation than circumcised men I dated did- I think the whole idea that "uncircumcised men experience more sensation"  may indeed be true- and that's not always a good thing.

 

 I would like to state that I am simply slightly promiscuous, and I certainly haven't had enough sexual partners for my personal experience to qualify as a scientific test sampling....

Gustafson28

I'm Jewish too so it's a tough call. My FI is United so he doesn't care and is uncircumcised. I just remember how much my little brother screamed and how sick I made me feel (at 5 years old). Doesn't seem worth the suffering.

Gustafson28

As a side note, I'd be pissed if someone chopped off part of my junk or a nipple or something. Not cool

audreyecu61

I honestly can't say that I have a opinion on circumcision as I have 3 girls and 1 grand daughter. But given the recent controversy I would advise my children to do some research if they knew they were having a boy.

My kids are 29,22 and 10. I'm not into this 'let's discuss every issue' parenting.

I grew up being beaten according to today's standards. I have spanked my children, but it was more of a single swat on the rear. The "look" was often more effective for me.

Teenagers are a whole other subject.

kryan32

I'm against spanking and I'm also against giving more than one warning before doling out a consequence... My daughter has never been spanked yet she is very well-adjusted and one of the most polite kids you'll ever meet...

But what I'm *really* opposed to is other people telling me that I'm doing it wrong or that their way of parenting is the right way.  If there was only one cookie-cutter perfect way to parent, that way would be common knowledge by now and we would all have perfect children...

As with everything else, i think parenting skills comes with age and experience...  Not everything that worked with my DD works with FIs DD - they are very different people and need to be treated as individuals...

 

daisey18

Hooray, if I was advocating that people get their sons circumcised for JUST that reason, people should indeed be up in arms. I was mentioning that as a side benefit.

 When women are circumcised, it is not to lesson their sensitivity- it is to entirely DE-SENSITIZE them. It is to make it so that they do not enjoy or want sex, period.

 So, a women who has no enjoyment, and often suffers lifelong debilitating pain and complications , all because her culture thinks she should not want sex, vs. a man who has lessened risk of disease and perhaps more enjoyment of the sex act, because his family dedicated him to the Jewish faith or because his family wants to protect him from stds- not a fair comparison.

 Some men do opt to get circumcised when they are older- I have a family member who had it done in his mid-twenties because sex was extremely painful- his doctor said it was due to his foreskin being too small- which I thought was odd-but apparently that does sometimes happen. Anyways, the pain was supposedly "more" since he was an adult- similar to ear piercing? More nerves or something... But it was pain at that moment- he wasn't hurting for days.

Peledreamsofrain

It is nice to see that there are still sensible souls out there about spanking.  It's going to be a big point of contention when my H and I have kids.  His mother was...... doting.  She's VERY proud that she NEVER let her children cry.  It couldn't be more opposite to my discipline-oriented stoic mid-western upbringing.  I am not interested in spanking my children as much as I was spanked, but his assertion that we aren't ever going to spank under any circumstance is silly.

I'm thinking he's going to change his mind about his 'no spanking' stance once he has a kid screaming at him like a monster for 20 minutes and destroying things. All I know is that mommy isn't putting up with a minute of that shit.  

TKzilla

Peledreamsofrain said:

It is nice to see that there are still sensible souls out there about spanking.  It's going to be a big point of contention when my H and I have kids.  His mother was...... doting.  She's VERY proud that she NEVER let her children cry.  It couldn't be more opposite to my discipline-oriented stoic mid-western upbringing.  I am not interested in spanking my children as much as I was spanked, but his assertion that we aren't ever going to spank under any circumstance is silly.

I'm thinking he's going to change his mind about his 'no spanking' stance once he has a kid screaming at him like a monster for 20 minutes and destroying things. All I know is that mommy isn't putting up with a minute of that shit.  

OMG PELE ARE YOU PREGGERS!?!  :P

Ajuliana

I didn't realize people would get so angry about circumsion...I have only had three partners and they were all circumcised, and honestly I might freak out if I saw something differently.  I'm in the school of son gets it done like father.  But I'm also terrified of baby boy penises.  Like, I wouldn't change my nephew's diapers but I had no problem changing my nieces diapers.  So...hopefully girls for us?

WinstonsGirl

Everyone is a winner is a concept that I'm not a huge fan of.  It doesn't teach kids how to lose and they can't deal with losing later in life when things don't go their way.  And I see it a lot cos I teach.  I was volunteering at a triathlon this morning, and I don't mind participation medals, similar to those done in marathons, cos I see it as a race against your self to be better.  But in game situations (baseball, soccer, etc.) where they don't keep score, I completely disagree.  

One are I think we do it well around here is with the younger kids in cheer.  Every team get a trophy, but they are awarded based on the team placement.  So you may still get one for 8th place, smaller than the first place trophy, but really, I find kids don't care where they place at that age.  They just want to celebrate with their team and hear their team name.  But it still gives them a goal to push for to get better.  

Circumcision, I don't know enough about.  I'm not for it unless the kid wants it done (adult by the time they make that choice).  My brother circumcised my nephew, but I do see their reasoning to it.  He was also circumcised as a kid and said he'd have absolutely no idea on how to teach the kid how to properly clean and maintain everything since he hadn't done it himself.  I do kind of see his POV, though I'm sure he could have just Googled tips if he was against it.  

My parenting anger is helicopter parents.  The ones who can't let their kids fail or have anything bad happen to them.  I think it's setting them up poorly for life, when they get fired for example cos Mom has it out with their boss for harping on them for being late.  I also think their parents won't have any idea on how to deal with this either.  

Peledreamsofrain

Post removed due to GBCK

MoonlightSilver

Okay, so people who are "terrified" of attachment parenting - what do you think that term means?  Because I'm really not understanding what there is to be afraid of.

TKzilla

MoonlightSilver said:

Okay, so people who are "terrified" of attachment parenting - what do you think that term means?  Because I'm really not understanding what there is to be afraid of.

I don't know why someone would be "terrified" of it - that's silly. But it got a lot of bad press when the mother was featured on the cover of Time magazine, still breast-feeding her three-year-old son.

AddieCake

Peledreamsofrain said:

CourtaniaLynn said:

Peledreamsofrain said:

It is nice to see that there are still sensible souls out there about spanking.  It's going to be a big point of contention when my H and I have kids.  His mother was...... doting.  She's VERY proud that she NEVER let her children cry.  It couldn't be more opposite to my discipline-oriented stoic mid-western upbringing.  I am not interested in spanking my children as much as I was spanked, but his assertion that we aren't ever going to spank under any circumstance is silly.

I'm thinking he's going to change his mind about his 'no spanking' stance once he has a kid screaming at him like a monster for 20 minutes and destroying things. All I know is that mommy isn't putting up with a minute of that shit.  

OMG PELE ARE YOU PREGGERS!?!  :P

All I got for you is this:

WTF is even happening in this gif?

Ajuliana

@stagemanager14 It is actually very common for parents to decide based on what the father is. And I was pretty clear that I needed more information and have not decided, so your comments about being sickened are ridiculous. I don't have children, and baby genitalia does make me uncomfortable because im afraid I might hurt something, which I'm damn sure I'm not the only woman in the world toever worry about.

Peledreamsofrain

Post removed due to GBCK

Ajuliana

*Oops, I thought I had included the bit about needing to learn more. My bad. But I'm still not the only person who has thought that way. Circumcision has only started to be an issue in this country, so many people haven't yet made up their minds. You can't assume we've all read the same studies you have, so why not start a conversation instead of an argument and post a link for me?

Peledreamsofrain

Post removed due to GBCK

Ajuliana

I live in a rural, agricultural area. It has never been mentioned to me as something to even question, so all I was asking for was where I should educate myself. You said the academy of pediatrics, so I'll start there. Thanks!

Ajuliana

I've never googled it since I'd never heard of it as an issue until this thread. But I'll be sure to give it thought and of course consult a physician when we do have children.

OneLuckyNurse

I don't have kids yet but I do work with them so I'll add my two cents

I was spanked and don't feed traumatized. I have had friends express the fact that they would NEVER spank and when I share that I was, they look at me in this shocked expression like I was abused. I was only spanked in certain circumstances and could probably count one two hands ho many times I was. I am all for the following through with warnings. As a frequent baby sitter growning up, I was always shocked how many kids would like at me like I was crazy when I would say "No" and then put them in time out if they kept up with the behavior. I can only assume they weren't used to it from their parents (or maybe they just thought they could get away with stuff since I was a baby sitter).

Circumcision...I have no true opinion. I'll probably let my FI decide since he has more experience with that As a nurse I will say that there are few complications from it and its definately not life endangering in anyway...

As for "co-sleeping" I have very strong opinions. I am a NICU nurse and as such am well versed on the research about infant sleeping and what is best. Infant should always be in their own bed (on their back!) with no extra pillows, blankets or bumper pads. A warm sleeper should be enough. Children can die from rolling onto a pillow and sufficating. Also it is very hard to transition kids into their own bed when they are older. Also, even though it is super cute, there have been studies showing it is dangerous to let infants sleep on a parents chest (for naps). Similar to a pillow, the infant may not be able to turn its head if it is being smuthered. I actually know a family where the father woke up to his son who had passed away on his chest. Extrememly sad. I get a hard time from some of my friends for being such an advocate of how infants sleep, but in my opinon, it is a very serious thing.

 

 

TKzilla

I think you need to get creative with punishments sometimes.

True story: I babysat a little girl with a really bad temper many years ago. She was fussing at another kid, so I got down on her level to talk to her about controlling her attitude. She slapped me across the face and screamed "I HAAAAAAATE YOUUUUUU!" - kid was five years old. I took her by the hand and led her to the front porch and said "If you hate me, you can walk home." I closed the storm door (clear glass) and stood to the side so that I could see her and she couldn't see me. Maybe 15 seconds later, she knocked on the door and said "I not hate you. I sorry. I not hit you again."

Peledreamsofrain

CourtaniaLynn said:

I think you need to get creative with punishments sometimes.

True story: I babysat a little girl with a really bad temper many years ago. She was fussing at another kid, so I got down on her level to talk to her about controlling her attitude. She slapped me across the face and screamed "I HAAAAAAATE YOUUUUUU!" - kid was five years old. I took her by the hand and led her to the front porch and said "If you hate me, you can walk home." I closed the storm door (clear glass) and stood to the side so that I could see her and she couldn't see me. Maybe 15 seconds later, she knocked on the door and said "I not hate you. I sorry. I not hit you again."

Hahaaha Courtiana my parents actually couldn't trust me with babysitters because I was an 'outside the box' thinker as a child.  If that had been me you put on the porch, I would have shrugged and taken a stroll down the street.  The ONLY people that could get me to do what I was told was my parents.  Everyone else I walked away from (or ran if necessary :P). 

Simply Fated

FloridaBride27 said:

As a clinical psychologist with a child psychologist FI I have to defend the anti-spankers. Research shows that spanking is ineffective (find me one peer reviewed study that says otherwise) and often only serves to benefit the parent (make the child be quiet or behave). It also teaches children that in extreme circumstances it is ok to hit others to get what you want. Violence purpetuates viloence. Now you can argue that smacking their butt isn't violent but for arguements sake I will just say that any intentional behavior that causes pain to the child is violence.

Now, how in the world are you supposed to teach your children without spanking? Look up positive reinforcement (allowing them to stay up later in response to them doing their chores without being asked), negative reinforcement (taking away chores for making the honor roll), positive punishment (giving extra chores for screaming), and negative punishment (taking away toys for not sharing). Twice as effective and the children actually learn.

You can't argue with facts.

The fact is, I was spanked a couple of times. Not only was I not traumatized, but I totally understood what I had done wrong and felt bad. I have an excellent relationship with my parents. Am I an exception to your facts?

Chores should never be used in a punishment situation. They are a great way to teach responsibility and pride and even teamwork. Parents don't get less chores for doing well at work, would would anyone else in the household?

I'm not advocating tons of spankings, just saying that not everything works for everyone and the "better" alternatives could just create other problems.


I'm also completely against attachment parenting, especially co-sleeping. I move around way too much in my sleep for that to be safe. In general, you shouldn't need to be with your child 24/7 in order to have a good relationship with them. Attachment parenting only really benefits the parents, especially breastfeeding past certain years.

wittykitty14

I don't have children yet, but FI and I have talked extensively about how we will raise them. 

Growing up, I was always anti-spanking.  I used to think that spanking=abuse.  FI is an advocate of spanking, when it's used properly.  He was spanked some as a kid, and knows the good it did him.  His parents gave him warning, and he knew why he was being punished.  Even when he was young, he knew that he was being spanked out of love, not anger.  I only got spanked once.  I can't remember why, but I made my dad angry once when I was really little, and without warning he started spanking me.  It was very much a knee-jerk reaction.  To this day I still have no idea what the problem is.  This is probably why I grew up thinking that spanking wasn't ok, because that experience was very traumatic for me.  Also, my brother and I were very well behaved and spanking wasn't a factor.  That's why I always believed that spanking was unnecessary.  Then again, I've heard that we were very well behaved children without much negotiation from my parents.

FI probably spank our children, as a last resort.  (And he'll be doing it, I won't have any part of it).  When we have kids we'll start to have more in depth conversations about when we think it's necessary and what else we'll try first.  But I've also told him that we need to be 100% in agreement on each instance where he thinks a spank is necessary.  If there's ever a time that I wasn't ok with it, I wouldn't be able to live with the guilt.

FI and I are very excited to have children, because we agree, for the most part, on how they should be raised.  Not that I have a right to judge, but I HATE it when parents will tell their kids not to do something, throw out a possible punishment, and then NEVER follow through it.  And then they complain that their kids never listen to them.  DUH.  That's one of my biggest issues.  I can't stand the "attachment" thing, and it's not something I fully understand.  It just seems odd to me.

One thing we haven't really discussed yet is circumcision.  I always assumed I would, but I'm really not sure.  I'm not overly comfortable with the idea.  FI is circumsized, and he is happy about it.  But he also said he wouldn't care if he hadn't been.  So, it's nothing we've made up our mind about yet.  Once I become pregnant, then we'll start doing our research and having this discussion.  It's nothing we need to worry about right now.

I HATE the "everybody wins" thing if you're over 4 years old.  It diminishes the achivements or those who worked especially hard or have serious talent, and it teaches children that they don't need to put any effort into something in order to get special recognition.  I think this has fueled the sense of entitlement that children have.  The entitlement is a HUGE issue right now.  Our kids will not be like that, so help me.

I thought I'd throw this one out there, because you might get a kick out of it.  FI wants to make our kids use dial-up so that they can learn patience.  I think he's a genius

MuppetFan

Liatris2010 said:

Spanking: I don't think spanking is abuse, but I still don't want to do it. I feel like spanking is the thing you do when you are frustrated and have lost control of your temper and the situation. My hope is to not get there as a parent even if that is unlikely. I don't want to teach my kids that when you are frustrated and can't win the dispute rationally you act out or resort to physical might. Hopefully starting to reward the good and ignore the bad at a very young age will lead good kids. My parents didn't spank us, but they always followed through on punishments.

I align more with this. I was spanked as a kid and I don't really believe any of it was merited. I was overall a good kid. If my mother told me to do something, I'd typically go do it. I got smacked for being "fresh" more than anything else but I wasn't being fresh at all. If I was asked to do something and I asked why, I was looking to understand the order.

Perhaps the worst spanking I ever received was from after my grandmother was trying to force-feed me a third helping of rice pilaf. I was FULL. I didn't want any more. When I was told about all the poor kids in China who would love to have it, I said she could send it to them. She couldn't wait to tell my mother how terrible and "fresh" I was, but I was incredibly serious. I didn't know where China was but I thought it was generous to give to people who needed it. I was 4-5.

I see my aunt constantly grab and spank my 5 year old cousin when she talks back or uses inappropriate words but honestly, she sounds like a little clone of her mother. She's being punished for the behavior her mother has taught her.

I say this as someone without kids yet, so perhaps my opinion will change... but I really don't see the necessity of it. I think I have to try to have more self control, patience and understanding and follow through with punishments.

FI and I will most likely have some disagreements on this topic because he was spanked as a kid and thinks its important. I'm surprised he feels this way because his mother was incredibly unnecessary with her spankings and often gave them when he didn't even do anything but she thought he did.

Regarding circumcision, I don't have a lot of thoughts on this. I would probably go with what FI prefers.

MoonlightSilver

Unsafe crib deaths are higher than co-sleeping infant deaths, and countries where co-sleeping is normal actually have the lowest rates of SIDS. It's really a matter of figuring out what's best for you- but to act as if co-sleeping is dangerous and crib-sleeping isn't dangerous is silly. 

It seems like some people are judging attachment parenting based upon "worst case scenarios" that might not even have real world truths behind them. For instance, I see absolutely no connection between attachment parenting and attachment therapy, other than the word in the name. As there are whole countries that participate in co-sleeping as a normal practice, I am willing to bet that switching a cosleeper to their own bed isn't impossible, though it may take a little extra time. On the other hand, the benefits of breastfeeding are well established, and attachment parenting allows for an easier breastfeeding relationship. 

southernbelle0915

I want to watch this debate unfold because I'm really interested in this from the dissertation (peer reviewed research) perspective and the critical perspective. Both are valuable.

Notwithstanding the long-term effects on the child's development or psyche, a large part of my issue with spanking is the behavior of the parents. I know people don't like to call spanking "hitting", but when I think about it, the only difference I can see is that it's focused on the child's butt...otherwise the action seems the same to me. The open hand is raised, and makes forceful (variable) contact with the body. To me, I cannot think of it as anything but specifically localized hitting. Whatever the effects on the child, I don't think it's an acceptable way for parents to address their child's behavior.

I think a lot of parents (not all) spank out of frustration and the lesson gets lost on the child. In other words, the child avoids the behavior in the future to avoid spanking...not because they actually understand why the behavior should be avoided.

It just seems like there has to be a better way to get the results you want as a parent and teach your child good behavior and important lessons without hitting/spanking. Just my $0.02. Mine is just an opinion and not a dissertation or critique of studies.