Religion Ceremony Issues

Emmy1493

So me and my Fiance have booked our venue where we will be having our ceremony and reception. His parents have helped us major with this and put a hefty deposit down so we could reserve it. This was a few months ago. I should also add that my fiance is catholic and I was brought up baptist. The chapel in which we are getting married is perfect because its kind of a neutral place for us to get married. Of course we might have some bible readings,and stuff, but it wasn't going to be strictly a  catholic wedding or a baptist wedding.Maybe a few snippets of things from his religion to be considerate, etc. 

Anyways I was talking to my FMIL about maybe incorporating a few small things and she said that she would contact their priest from their church. So one night a few weeks later my fiance sits down and tells me he spoke with his mom about it, and apparently our marriage is not 'Valid" by the church if we don't marry.. in a church? I. Was.Livid. Basically he can't receive communion etc if he doesn't. I feel terrible because I know that's a big thing for him in his religion, and I do not want to get into the middle of that, but his mom put down a very big deposit on the place we booked and I am in favor of that place because its non denominational. Plus, its such a beautiful place and all the vendors we have booked are set to go there. I know that's not a huge deal, but I have been working so hard planning everything, pretty much by myself and am not happy about possibly having all of that just change.. If we ended up getting married at our venue we would then have to get, con-validated or something? His sister and brother in law are in the same exact boat as we are, except they have been married for years and just had a little one, so its a bit more tough for them, maybe?

All in all I guess I really want to know how you would go about getting validated. Is it hard? What are the steps, because I want to do it as soon as humanly possible. Again, I know I sound selfish and I am trying so hard not to be one of those kinds of brides, its just I have a lot going on besides this wedding that is stressful, and this is just the cherry on top. I am sure he can relate too, but it's all a bit confusing. Hopefully we can get this all resolved quickly. Thanks for listening.

KeptInStitches

You would have to get married in the Catholic church for the marriage to be valid, since he's a Catholic. His mom is right, he would not be allowed to have communion. I think that maybe you'd have some trouble with convalidation since he would have known in advance the hoops he had to jump through in order to be sacramentally married. Is there any way you could make the change? It seems like this matters if he did come talk to you about it.

HisGirlFriday13

emmaxbean93 said:

So me and my Fiance have booked our venue where we will be having our ceremony and reception. His parents have helped us major with this and put a hefty deposit down so we could reserve it. This was a few months ago. I should also add that my fiance is catholic and I was brought up baptist. The chapel in which we are getting married is perfect because its kind of a neutral place for us to get married. Of course we might have some bible readings,and stuff, but it wasn't going to be strictly a  catholic wedding or a baptist wedding.Maybe a few snippets of things from his religion to be considerate, etc. 

Anyways I was talking to my FMIL about maybe incorporating a few small things and she said that she would contact their priest from their church. So one night a few weeks later my fiance sits down and tells me he spoke with his mom about it, and apparently our marriage is not 'Valid" by the church if we don't marry.. in a church? I. Was.Livid. Basically he can't receive communion etc if he doesn't. I feel terrible because I know that's a big thing for him in his religion, and I do not want to get into the middle of that, but his mom put down a very big deposit on the place we booked and I am in favor of that place because its non denominational. Plus, its such a beautiful place and all the vendors we have booked are set to go there. I know that's not a huge deal, but I have been working so hard planning everything, pretty much by myself and am not happy about possibly having all of that just change.. If we ended up getting married at our venue we would then have to get, con-validated or something? His sister and brother in law are in the same exact boat as we are, except they have been married for years and just had a little one, so its a bit more tough for them, maybe?

All in all I guess I really want to know how you would go about getting validated. Is it hard? What are the steps, because I want to do it as soon as humanly possible. Again, I know I sound selfish and I am trying so hard not to be one of those kinds of brides, its just I have a lot going on besides this wedding that is stressful, and this is just the cherry on top. I am sure he can relate too, but it's all a bit confusing. Hopefully we can get this all resolved quickly. Thanks for listening.

There is no reason for you to be "livid." If your FI had talked to a priest before you booked the venue, this would have been made clear to him.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but this is why the church tells people to contact their priest nine months or so before the wedding; there are a lot of Catholic rules regarding marriage.

In order to be sacramentally valid for a Catholic couple, the wedding must be performed by a Catholic priest in a Catholic Church. (Also, you and your FI will have to go through pre-Cana, which includes promising to raise your children Catholic).

Getting a married convalidated -- or blessed and recognised by the Catholic Church as valid after it has taken place -- isn't a cure-all because you wanted to get married at your venue. You have to show good reason why you didn't/couldn't get married in the Catholic Church in the first place.

Convalidation doesn't happen until after the wedding (you can't ask to have something convalidated that hasn't yet taken place).

You and your FI need to talk to a priest ASAP and figure out a course of action.

Good luck!

RamonaFlowers

I find it really odd that for something that's such a "big thing" that both your FI and his parents that none of them actually knew until recently that a Catholic must marry inside a Catholic church in order to remain in good standing with the church. That's Catholicism 101 right there.

Emmy1493

@Ramona :Yeah, I thought the same thing. I wasn't even planning on having the priest marry us, just a regular officiant. I don't really know a whole lot about catholic 101, because I am not catholic. I am just as surprised him, nor his mom, knew about that as his mom is very involved with the catholic church.@hisgirlfriday: I am not really trying to use it as an excuse or pardon for getting married at our venue. Your right, we should have talked to a priest before hand. It would have made more sense, but we didn't. I thought that since we were not getting married in a church, there was no need because I myself, didn't know about all of that. I was livid, or should I just say, upset and stressed, because they are catholic and it wasn't brought up until just recently AFTER a contract has already been signed, deposit payed, and vendors booked. I appreciate your enlightenment on what the whole convalidation issue. However, I should have made it more clear we weren't going to do that until after the wedding, as you are right, there wouldn't be anything to convalidate. I was really just wanting to know how long it took, and what we would both need in order to do so. Nevertheless we will talk to him about it.Meanwhile, I appreciate the feed back  

Emmy1493

@alicia Yeah, I agree completely. For someone who didn't grow up in that faith, I really didn't know myself. Maybe just lack of communication as I do not ask him lots of questions regarding his religions, I just knew a few basic stuff. It really is not something he ever brings up with me. I do not know. My FI and I did talk about it but he never was demanding that we get married in a church, and pretty much anytime I talked about what he wanted, he really didn't care. We are both just going to talk to the Priest about the different options, and what he has to say. He is a really nice man and I am sure he can help us. Thanks again for the advice. Again, wasn't sure how that all is supposed to go down, so I know we will figure this out together.

Emmy1493

@keptinstitches to be honest, he and his mom didn't even know. Yes I was a bit surprised, but its just something we are going to have to figure out so that he can receive communion.  

HisGirlFriday13

I'm also in the camp of 'if it's that important, how did they not know?' No offense to you, because you shouldn't have and couldn't have known the requirements for Catholic marriage, but they absolutely should have known. 

Also, no matter how nice the priest is, there's only so much he can do -- he's bound by the strictures of the faith and the requirements of the church. As an example, FI wanted to do our own vows IN ADDITION TO the vows required by the Catholic church. As nice as our priest is, and as much as he likes us, he couldn't let us do that. 

Also, I know you're not trying use convalidation as an excuse or reason to get married at your venue -- what I'm saying is, the church might not think you had a legitimate impediment to getting married in the Catholic church, which is why they give convalidations.

As an example, my parents got married in the Presbyterian church because my mother had been married previously and her annulment hadn't yet been granted by the Catholic church. Once it was, they had their marriage convalidated by the church. But between their wedding and that convalidation, Daddy couldn't take communion in the church. 

To be blunt, your FI needs to decide how important his Catholic faith is going to be to him in the future, because that's going to dictate what you do right now.

NYCBruin

Do you and/or FI attend church regularly?  

Does he attend his church or yours?

Does your FI want to continue in the Catholic faith?

Do you plan on having children?

What faith do you plan on raising your children in, if any?

Emmy1493

@hisgirlfriday: Yeah, I am surprised too. Its just one of those things. To be fair his family has gone through a lot this past year, like his grandfather being very ill and he then passed. I'm not trying to make excuses lol I just am trying to be considerate of the thought that yes, I am surprised she didn't, but she also has a ton going on in their life too. Not really sure. Also, I see where you come from on all of that. I guess I meant like hes nice so I shouldn't be afraid to talk to him about our options lol. Sometimes I get nervous talking to people I do not 100% know, I guess. 

@nycbruin: Honestly, he does more than I do. His parents live about an hour away, and its a small German town so his church is very big with his family. I go with him time to time, and I really don't mind it, but there is a lot I don't agree with 100% As far as our children go.. I'm not even sure about what we would bring them up in Were looking into pre-marital counseling so we can both figure all of that out. He certainly does still want to be catholic, and I have no problem with that.I just need to get all of my ducks in a row because this is a big decision for me, and I want to be absolutely sure.

NYCBruin

emmaxbean93 said:

@hisgirlfriday: Yeah, I am surprised too. Its just one of those things. To be fair his family has gone through a lot this past year, like his grandfather being very ill and he then passed. I'm not trying to make excuses lol I just am trying to be considerate of the thought that yes, I am surprised she didn't, but she also has a ton going on in their life too. Not really sure. Also, I see where you come from on all of that. I guess I meant like hes nice so I shouldn't be afraid to talk to him about our options lol. Sometimes I get nervous talking to people I do not 100% know, I guess. 

@nycbruin: Honestly, he does more than I do. His parents live about an hour away, and its a small German town so his church is very big with his family. I go with him time to time, and I really don't mind it, but there is a lot I don't agree with 100% As far as our children go.. I'm not even sure about what we would bring them up in Were looking into pre-marital counseling so we can both figure all of that out. He certainly does still want to be catholic, and I have no problem with that.I just need to get all of my ducks in a row because this is a big decision for me, and I want to be absolutely sure.

I would definitely set up a meeting with a priest.  He will be able to give you more accurate/detailed information, but here's some things to consider:

If your FI wants to remain in good standing with the church, he needs to be married in the church.  Not only in the physical building of the church, but also conforming with all of the requirements of the church.

If you get married in the church, your FI will need to promise to raise any children you have in the Catholic faith.  You will need to promise to not interfere with this.  

You will also need to go through the church's pre-cana program which is a type of pre-marital counseling.  

I would sit down with FI and have a discussion about both of your faiths and the role that faith/church will play in your family life (both as a couple and if/when children enter the scene).

MoonlightSilver

Your FI needs to meet with his priest as soon as possible. Tell the priest the situation, and see what he suggests. 

Are you open to the idea of moving your ceremony to a Catholic church if necessary? Is your FI okay with never taking communion if his priest says a convalidation isn't going to work? These are things you need to talk about *right now.* 

MrsRadke

My sister got married outside (not in a church) and had the blessing the following Sunday. They have a very personal relationship with the priest because they have known him for years and attend church weekly, so it may have been a special circumstance, but it's possible.

NYCBruin

MrsRadke said:

My sister got married outside (not in a church) and had the blessing the following Sunday. They have a very personal relationship with the priest because they have known him for years and attend church weekly, so it may have been a special circumstance, but it's possible.

That's very odd to me.  Maybe I am wrong, but I was taught it was a sin to get married outside of the church (hence not being able to continue to receive communion).  So if a couple marries outside of the church, they would need to repent for their sin before being eligible for a convalidation.  Since the convalidation was planned before the wedding occurred, it negates the reconciliation aspect (Just like it wouldn't "count" if I planned to rob a bank in the morning and then go to confession in the afternoon-obviously marrying outside the church isn't the same as robbing a bank, but the idea that you can't really receive the sacrament of reconciliation if you plan it in advance because you obviously aren't truly sorry for committing the sin still applies).

photokitty

It is not a sin to be married outside the church. The marriage is not valid and it is always a sin to have premarital sex - before a valid marriage or in an "invalid" one. As long as he was not previously married and didn't already get an annulment he can to to confession and then communion. 

If you miss Sunday mass one week it is considered a mortal sin and you "must" go to confession before receiving communion. But how many people really follow that one?? The likelihood of him being turned away from communion is slim and to be done by anyone beside a priest or nun would likely be highly hypocritical!

You can be sorry for a sin and still commit it over and over again. If not we would all only be allowed to confess once and then told we can't be forgiven again because we knew we shouldn't do it, yet we did it again. I know I shouldn't take the lord's name in vain, yet I do - sadly on a daily basis. Just because I think about my words and say it anyway doesn't mean I can't be forgiven the sin. 

Emmy1493

Well, its definitely something we have talked about. We both are only 20 and have not been married and have no children. My mom even suggested us having a small intimate church wedding before our actual wedding. Not really sure how that all would work, but if we did it would be in a catholic church. At the end of the day, if it was the only option, then yes I would not mind getting married in a catholic church. However, if were able to still use the venue that has been contracted and paid for, I would like that too. Hopefully his priest can talk with us and figure something out. My Fiance and his family are pretty close with the church and he attends every Sunday. With a few misses here and there. I also thank you ladies for the info so far. I really don't know all the details and rules about this religion, as he doesn't really talk about it, but its nice to know where to start. Hope all of you are having a good Monday!

MissMolly

So, if you get married outside of the Catholic church, is communion the only thing he wouldn't be able to take part in? Would he still be able to attend church? If this is the case, and not a huge big deal, then this means that you can get married in the current venue, and also raise any future children in the fashion/within the religion that you both want them raised in.

Emmy1493

@aleshad Yeah, communion is the only thing, however its a HUGE thing lol. He absolutely wants to be able to receive it. As far as children I really don't mind them being raised catholic, I just feel people might think it odd if him, and my children are catholic, but I am not. So that part is still iffy.

NYCBruin

emmaxbean93 said:

@aleshad Yeah, communion is the only thing, however its a HUGE thing lol. He absolutely wants to be able to receive it. As far as children I really don't mind them being raised catholic, I just feel people might think it odd if him, and my children are catholic, but I am not. So that part is still iffy.

FWIW my brother, father and I are Catholic and my mother is not.  We never got weird looks or anything.  She would just sit quietly in the pew when we went up for communion.  

NYCBruin

photokitty said:

It is not a sin to be married outside the church. The marriage is not valid and it is always a sin to have premarital sex - before a valid marriage or in an "invalid" one. As long as he was not previously married and didn't already get an annulment he can to to confession and then communion. 

If you miss Sunday mass one week it is considered a mortal sin and you "must" go to confession before receiving communion. But how many people really follow that one?? The likelihood of him being turned away from communion is slim and to be done by anyone beside a priest or nun would likely be highly hypocritical!

You can be sorry for a sin and still commit it over and over again. If not we would all only be allowed to confess once and then told we can't be forgiven again because we knew we shouldn't do it, yet we did it again. I know I shouldn't take the lord's name in vain, yet I do - sadly on a daily basis. Just because I think about my words and say it anyway doesn't mean I can't be forgiven the sin. 

I would differentiate sinful behavior that you know is bad but that you make an attempt not to do from planning a huge event that you know is wrong.  For example, you know you shouldn't take the lord's name in vain so you try not to and are sorry when you slip up and do.  If you were planning to scream the lord's name in vain at 2:30pm tomorrow, it would be hard to argue that you were really truly sorry about it.  

ETA Marriage is a really big event in a person's life.  IMHO if there's ever a day/time to make sure things are done "right" with the church, if the church is important to you, your wedding would be that day.

PrettyGirlLost

Aleshad1978 said:

So, if you get married outside of the Catholic church, is communion the only thing he wouldn't be able to take part in? Would he still be able to attend church? If this is the case, and not a huge big deal, then this means that you can get married in the current venue, and also raise any future children in the fashion/within the religion that you both want them raised in.

It's pretty much the entire point of going to Mass as a Catholic, lol!  I'd say that is a huge, big deal.

MrsRadke

Getting married outside of the church isn't a sin. It just isn't recognized as marriage until it happens in the church. The state recognized it on Saturday, and the church recognized it on Sunday the following weekend. And we don't really know when God decided to recognize it, but whatever he decided is fine with me.

NYCBruin

MrsRadke said:

Getting married outside of the church isn't a sin. It just isn't recognized as marriage until it happens in the church. The state recognized it on Saturday, and the church recognized it on Sunday the following weekend. And we don't really know when God decided to recognize it, but whatever he decided is fine with me.

Like I said, I just find it odd.

If marrying outside of the church isn't a sin why can't Catholics who marry outside the church receive communion?  I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm just trying to reconcile contradicting things I've been told.

The way I was taught was that marrying outside the church means that you aren't married in the eyes of the church and are in a state of mortal sin (can't receive the sacraments).  

There are tons of Catholics who would like to get married at a location other than in a church but don't because they were told they have to be married in the church.  It's very clear in my parish that the couple must have the legal paperwork done at the religious ceremony.  I guess I'm just confused as to why this (getting married at a special/more convenient location on Saturday and then do the church ceremony the next day) doesn't happen all the time if the church is ok with it.

Emmy1493

Well, I know my mom was thinking the same thing, lol. I had done a little research on it, but I have gotten far better answers and info on here than any other place. ^_^

Emmy1493

NYCBruin said:

MrsRadke said:

Getting married outside of the church isn't a sin. It just isn't recognized as marriage until it happens in the church. The state recognized it on Saturday, and the church recognized it on Sunday the following weekend. And we don't really know when God decided to recognize it, but whatever he decided is fine with me.

Like I said, I just find it odd.

If marrying outside of the church isn't a sin why can't Catholics who marry outside the church receive communion?  I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm just trying to reconcile contradicting things I've been told.

The way I was taught was that marrying outside the church means that you aren't married in the eyes of the church and are in a state of mortal sin (can't receive the sacraments).  

There are tons of Catholics who would like to get married at a location other than in a church but don't because they were told they have to be married in the church.  It's very clear in my parish that the couple must have the legal paperwork done at the religious ceremony.  I guess I'm just confused as to why this (getting married at a special/more convenient location on Saturday and then do the church ceremony the next day) doesn't happen all the time if the church is ok with it.

I guess the whole reason I was a tad confused is because I went to Baptist church and had never known anyone Catholic until I met my FI. A lot of girls I went to church with all got married outside of a church, then again they were not of the Catholic faith, so I know its different to them. That's why I was so set back about all of this. I wasn't aware of the laws and ways of the Catholic faith. lol I think I am starting to understand more now, that way my FI and I can discuss it better. Thanks!

NYCBruin

emmaxbean93 said:

NYCBruin said:

MrsRadke said:

Getting married outside of the church isn't a sin. It just isn't recognized as marriage until it happens in the church. The state recognized it on Saturday, and the church recognized it on Sunday the following weekend. And we don't really know when God decided to recognize it, but whatever he decided is fine with me.

Like I said, I just find it odd.

If marrying outside of the church isn't a sin why can't Catholics who marry outside the church receive communion?  I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm just trying to reconcile contradicting things I've been told.

The way I was taught was that marrying outside the church means that you aren't married in the eyes of the church and are in a state of mortal sin (can't receive the sacraments).  

There are tons of Catholics who would like to get married at a location other than in a church but don't because they were told they have to be married in the church.  It's very clear in my parish that the couple must have the legal paperwork done at the religious ceremony.  I guess I'm just confused as to why this (getting married at a special/more convenient location on Saturday and then do the church ceremony the next day) doesn't happen all the time if the church is ok with it.

I guess the whole reason I was a tad confused is because I went to Baptist church and had never known anyone Catholic until I met my FI. A lot of girls I went to church with all got married outside of a church, then again they were not of the Catholic faith, so I know its different to them. That's why I was so set back about all of this. I wasn't aware of the laws and ways of the Catholic faith. lol I think I am starting to understand more now, that way my FI and I can discuss it better. Thanks!

I totally understand your confusion!  I would never expect someone who wasn't raised Catholic to understand all the rules of Catholicism.  Heck, I'm Catholic and I still don't understand all of them, but I do the best I can.  Just wanted to give you and FI some food for thought.  Definitely seek out a priest and decide what is best for the two of you as a family.

Also, not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but might it be possible to have the ceremony in a church and the reception at the same location you currently have booked?

Emmy1493

Yeah, it definitely can be a lot lol! As for changing it, i'm not sure. I know we signed a contract and am pretty sure since the chapel was part of it, that we wouldn't get the money back for that part. I think the only reason I was a little iffy, was because I liked the idea of a neutral chapel, and his mom already paid a lot to book that, but I know money is not the most important thing in the world. I would just feel bad because if we moved it all around she would have to pay more. Either way I know we will work it out so no one is missing out on anything, or not doing the proper thing. Our intentions were never to go against anything, we just weren't aware and it is something we will have to seriously consider, discuss and take action on.

Emmy1493

Also, NWR really, but how is everyone getting those awesome cute little countdowns at the bottom of their comments? I've been on here since April and have yet to ask. I think those are pretty cool! ^_^

NYCBruin

emmaxbean93 said:

Yeah, it definitely can be a lot lol! As for changing it, i'm not sure. I know we signed a contract and am pretty sure since the chapel was part of it, that we wouldn't get the money back for that part. I think the only reason I was a little iffy, was because I liked the idea of a neutral chapel, and his mom already paid a lot to book that, but I know money is not the most important thing in the world. I would just feel bad because if we moved it all around she would have to pay more. Either way I know we will work it out so no one is missing out on anything, or not doing the proper thing. Our intentions were never to go against anything, we just weren't aware and it is something we will have to seriously consider, discuss and take action on.

That makes sense.  Set up a meeting with a priest, and he'll be able to let you know all your options.  Since you aren't Catholic there may be the possibility of getting married in the chapel (get a dispensation), but you'd still have to comply with the other Catholic church marriage requirements (which it sounds like you're still in the process of deciding if you're ok with or not).  Best of luck with everything!

Emmy1493

Awesome! Thank you so much for all the info! It really did bring to light a bunch of stuff I didn't know, and have lots of talking to do haha.

amaryann210

NYCBruin said:

MrsRadke said:

Getting married outside of the church isn't a sin. It just isn't recognized as marriage until it happens in the church. The state recognized it on Saturday, and the church recognized it on Sunday the following weekend. And we don't really know when God decided to recognize it, but whatever he decided is fine with me.

Like I said, I just find it odd.

If marrying outside of the church isn't a sin why can't Catholics who marry outside the church receive communion?  I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm just trying to reconcile contradicting things I've been told.

The way I was taught was that marrying outside the church means that you aren't married in the eyes of the church and are in a state of mortal sin (can't receive the sacraments).  

There are tons of Catholics who would like to get married at a location other than in a church but don't because they were told they have to be married in the church.  It's very clear in my parish that the couple must have the legal paperwork done at the religious ceremony.  I guess I'm just confused as to why this (getting married at a special/more convenient location on Saturday and then do the church ceremony the next day) doesn't happen all the time if the church is ok with it.

Because if you aren't in a valid marriage, having sex with someone you aren't validly married to would be the mortal sin and prevent you from taking communion.  Does that make more sense?