• Images
  • Text
  • Find a Couple + Registry
GO
Etiquette

Legally married, now having a "real" wedding? Stop here first! (AKA, the PPD FAQ thread)

14849505153

Re: Legally married, now having a "real" wedding? Stop here first! (AKA, the PPD FAQ thread)

  • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annulment

    If you don't consummate the marriage you can have it annulled-which is

    Annulment is a legal procedure for declaring a marriage null and void.[1] Unlike divorce, it is usually retroactive, meaning that an annulled marriage is considered to be invalid from the beginning almost as if it had never taken place.

    So basically if you don't consummate it the state can separate you by declaring it null and void. As if it never happened. If you consummate it, you have to get a divorce instead. So basically unless you witness the two people having sex the night after they get married, you aren't really witnessing anything "real" if you want to get nitpicky about it.
  • chibiyuichibiyui The Boring Part of MD member
    5000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary 5 Answers

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annulment

    If you don't consummate the marriage you can have it annulled-which is

    Annulment is a legal procedure for declaring a marriage null and void.[1] Unlike divorce, it is usually retroactive, meaning that an annulled marriage is considered to be invalid from the beginning almost as if it had never taken place.

    So basically if you don't consummate it the state can separate you by declaring it null and void. As if it never happened. If you consummate it, you have to get a divorce instead. So basically unless you witness the two people having sex the night after they get married, you aren't really witnessing anything "real" if you want to get nitpicky about it.

    I'm pretty sure I don't have to send my blood stained bedsheets in to be legally married, so consummation and annulment are not relevant to the discussion at hand. But nice derailment.
    image



    Anniversary
    southernbelle0915KeptInStitches
  • holyguacamole79holyguacamole79 a taco truck in Houston member
    5000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary 5 Answers
    Irina,

    I got married in Texas.  My husband and I took a course that qualified for the "Twogether in Texas" credit you referenced.  We did the EXACT same thing Addie described.  We went to the county clerk, payed the fee, and took the oath.  We signed the license.  We were not officially married until the priest who conducted our nuptial Mass signed the license and sent it back to the county.  Now that I think about it, I don't recall signing it after the wedding.  We only signed it when we applied for it.



    Anniversary
    AddieCake
  • Well, then I guess I'm just going through life thinking I'm special and disrespecting the institution of marriage. So be it. I'm sure the institution will be just fine regardless of my obvious lack of concern for it. The good news is that this lack of respect will have ZERO effect on anyone else's marriage. 
    This is just awful; Thank you for elucidating exactly why PPDs are so awful.
    Sorry, I assumed it would be taken for the snark it was intended as. I'm looking forward to the invention of sarcasm font for those who can't readily recognize it.
    With all the crap that you post its difficult to tell anymore and frankly as a result, I believed you when you shared that little statement.
  • edited August 2014
    No, you don't have to send them in, but if you don't do it, you aren't married bc your entire thing can be declared null as if it never even happened. Obviously it would only be questioned if one of the people came and said so while trying to get an annulment. But nevertheless no, you aren't married unless you consummate it-doesnt mean they ask for proof. Is this absurd? Yes. But IMHO so is placing a ton of importance on watching someone get "legally married" instead of "ceremony" when in they aren't even yet until that point under the law. If you want to nitpick about the law and watching it be executed when making a decision whether or not to attend a friends/family members wedding than at least be consistent and nitpick all the way to completion. It's not a derailment-it's taking that logic all the way to the end is all.
    [Deleted User]
  • ANYWAY I do want to say to everyone regardless of what side of the fence they are on that even if we disagree- this has been enlightening and it has made me consider things and people's feelings that I wouldn't have before. Not because I don't care, but because I just didn't know-so at the very least thank you for that ladies.
    [Deleted User]
  • chibiyuichibiyui The Boring Part of MD member
    5000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary 5 Answers

    No, you don't have to send them in, but if you don't do it, you aren't married bc your entire thing can be declared null as if it never even happened. Obviously it would only be questioned if one of the people came and said so while trying to get an annulment. But nevertheless no, you aren't married unless you consummate it-doesnt mean they ask for proof. Is this absurd? Yes. But so is placing a ton of importance on watching someone get "legally married" instead of "ceremony" when in they aren't even yet until that point under the law. If you want to nitpick about the law and watching it be executed when making a decision whether or not to attend a friends/family members wedding than at least be consistent and nitpick all the way to completion. It's not a derailment-it's taking that logic all the way to the end is all.

    No. It's faulty logic. If two people marry and do not have sex they are still married. 20 years can pass without them having sex and they are still married. Consummation is not a requirement for marriage. Lack of consummation can be used as proof of an invalid marriage. All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares.
    image



    Anniversary
    holyguacamole79southernbelle0915APDSS22JCbride2015
  • LDay2014LDay2014 member
    500 Love Its 500 Comments First Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited August 2014
    @irinashayk - I'm sorry, but you do realize that the blonde bimbo in your gif signature really makes you seem less and less credible. This in addition to the fact that you seem to be having trouble comprehending the requirements to get married. I can't take anyone seriously who has such a self-important airhead saying 'damn, girl' as their signature...It just seems so incredibly juvenile.
  • perdonamiperdonami member
    Fourth Anniversary 250 Love Its 100 Comments First Answer
    edited August 2014
    beethery honey, please read and review my comments up there, I do not condone lying. I don't think is appropriate. I said it multiple times. 


    Ok so most of the people here agree with you. What are you even arguing about.

     

    Celebrating your birthday on a Friday when its really on a Monday is actually a great analogy you are just using it wrong. Nobody who decides to celebrate on a Friday says "Let's get together because my birthday is on Aug 1 this year, even though last year it was July 28th." They say "Hey my birthday is Monday, let's get together Friday." That's the equivalent of saying hey we got married for health insurance, but we want to celebrate later this summer. WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT EVERYONE IS SAYING TO DO.

    Love this @Fran1985 .
  • perdonami said:



    perdonami said:



    Well, then I guess I'm just going through life thinking I'm special and disrespecting the institution of marriage. So be it. I'm sure the institution will be just fine regardless of my obvious lack of concern for it. The good news is that this lack of respect will have ZERO effect on anyone else's marriage. 

    This is just awful; Thank you for elucidating exactly why PPDs are so awful.

    Sorry, I assumed it would be taken for the snark it was intended as. I'm looking forward to the invention of sarcasm font for those who can't readily recognize it.


    With all the crap that you post its difficult to tell anymore and frankly as a result, I believed you when you shared that little statement.



    Technically it was half snark. I still maintain that no matter how I feel about the institution, it'll be just fine. The rest was me being smartass.

  • holyguacamole79holyguacamole79 a taco truck in Houston member
    5000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary 5 Answers
    edited August 2014

    Wow, I leave work and I miss all 13 posts! Geez! Well girls, you have your opinions, I got mine. I will consider my friends amazing even if they have a "PPD". I will be glad to be part of their day.

    At the same time I wish you all happy planning, and happy marriages. All the best! And for the ones who had kick ass weddings, I am glad! PPDs or no PPDs we are all here for a reason, marrying the love of our lives. 

    Have a blessed evening.
    So do you now understand that picking up a marriage license does not constitute a wedding? Or do you still claim that what Addie did was a PPD?



    Anniversary
  • holyguacamole79holyguacamole79 a taco truck in Houston member
    5000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary 5 Answers

    I wouldn't know ....she is the only one that can say if she did or didn't. We can only believe. Now, you say you don't sign in front of the judge ? Uh, in Dallas at least you do. She said she signed her marriage license 3 days prior. Didn't specify. That comment wasn't necessary bc signing in front of a clerk is like signing it in front of my little sister. That comment was confusing. That is why I asked before I made an assumption. If she had a ppd or not. I really don't care. You know why? Because I am not the kind of person that will go around judging and bashing other girls for their actions. @sarahbear31‌

    Actually, signing the license in front of the clerk is nothing like signing it in front of your sister (unless your sister works for the county). And, no, I never saw a judge when we obtained our license (nor when we got married). Our wedding was officiated by a priest, so he signed the license after the wedding. He (or the church wedding coordinator) mailed it to the county.

    It's a good thing you're waiting until 2016 so you can figure this all out in the meantime.



    Anniversary
    AddieCakeLDay2014climbingwife
  • holyguacamole79holyguacamole79 a taco truck in Houston member
    5000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary 5 Answers

    So you got married 3 days before your wedding! Oh no! @addiecake It is okay. Nothing bad happened, everyone was happy and it is a clear example that there is a happy bride and a happy marriage. Are y'all going to bash her too? Hope not.

    Btw, this sounds judgy and rude. Stop pretending like you're the victim here.



    Anniversary
  • chibiyuichibiyui The Boring Part of MD member
    5000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary 5 Answers

    I wouldn't know ....she is the only one that can say if she did or didn't. We can only believe. Now, you say you don't sign in front of the judge ? Uh, in Dallas at least you do. She said she signed her marriage license 3 days prior. Didn't specify. That comment wasn't necessary bc signing in front of a clerk is like signing it in front of my little sister. That comment was confusing. That is why I asked before I made an assumption. If she had a ppd or not. I really don't care. You know why? Because I am not the kind of person that will go around judging and bashing other girls for their actions. @sarahbear31‌

    So you don't judge lady puppy kickers? Or little girl candy robbers? Femme fatale assassins? Jenny McCarthy? Do you judge men based on their actions? Why do you hate men?
    image



    Anniversary
  • chibiyuichibiyui The Boring Part of MD member
    5000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary 5 Answers

    I hate men because they are beautiful @chibiyui

    I hate men because they are beautiful @chibiyui

    I'm jealous of RuPaul too.
    image



    Anniversary
    slothiegalbeetheryperdonami
  • This is kind of painful. Legal requirements vary from place to place. In some regions the couple signs their license when they get it from their government office but then it's only a done deal once a proper officiant says what need so to be said then signs him/herself.

    Other places, no one signs until after the officiant says what needs to be said then everyone signs.

    In other places still, like CO, all that needs to happen is the couple signs then files. No officiant necessary, although there is a line for an officiant to sign if that is the route the coupe chooses. This can be done right at the clerk's desk, or the couple can take the license, do whatever it is they'd like to do, then return with it signed and file it themselves, I think they have 30 days from when it was issued to do this.

    It is completely possible that Addie and her husband (FI at the time) (and millions of other people) signed their license at the clerk's office in their county, brought it to the site of their ceremony, said what needed saying, THEN their officiant signed (and presumably filed it for them) and BAM! they were married. Doesn't mean they were legally married prior to their wedding ceremony.

    There isn't a "one way" across all 50 states. Not even every country in every state does things the same. So perhaps I've caused confusion for some by referring to the signing of a license as the act of legally getting married, but that's only in places where self solemnization is legal. Many more places require an officiant, some type of language must be used (I now pronounce you.....) then the signature of the officiant.

    The idea of bantering about "who may have had an inadvertent "PPD" is silly and is taking a thread that is already stupid as hell and making it worse. It's already a made up notion only existing in the forums of TK, I'm certain most reasonable people followed whatever legal regulations there were in their jurisdiction to get married how they thought best.

    [Deleted User]
  • This is kind of painful. Legal requirements vary from place to place. In some regions the couple signs their license when they get it from their government office but then it's only a done deal once a proper officiant says what need so to be said then signs him/herself.

    Other places, no one signs until after the officiant says what needs to be said then everyone signs.

    In other places still, like CO, all that needs to happen is the couple signs then files. No officiant necessary, although there is a line for an officiant to sign if that is the route the coupe chooses. This can be done right at the clerk's desk, or the couple can take the license, do whatever it is they'd like to do, then return with it signed and file it themselves, I think they have 30 days from when it was issued to do this.

    It is completely possible that Addie and her husband (FI at the time) (and millions of other people) signed their license at the clerk's office in their county, brought it to the site of their ceremony, said what needed saying, THEN their officiant signed (and presumably filed it for them) and BAM! they were married. Doesn't mean they were legally married prior to their wedding ceremony.

    There isn't a "one way" across all 50 states. Not even every country in every state does things the same. So perhaps I've caused confusion for some by referring to the signing of a license as the act of legally getting married, but that's only in places where self solemnization is legal. Many more places require an officiant, some type of language must be used (I now pronounce you.....) then the signature of the officiant.

    The idea of bantering about "who may have had an inadvertent "PPD" is silly and is taking a thread that is already stupid as hell and making it worse. It's already a made up notion only existing in the forums of TK, I'm certain most reasonable people followed whatever legal regulations there were in their jurisdiction to get married how they thought best.
    This must be really convenient for people who want to have destination weddings, but don't want to worry about the rules of the destination country. They can take their CO license, have their wedding ceremony, sign the thing, and then bring it back to the county clerk. Easy breezy!
    image
    chibiyuirajahmdJCbride2015


  • This is kind of painful. Legal requirements vary from place to place. In some regions the couple signs their license when they get it from their government office but then it's only a done deal once a proper officiant says what need so to be said then signs him/herself.

    Other places, no one signs until after the officiant says what needs to be said then everyone signs.

    In other places still, like CO, all that needs to happen is the couple signs then files. No officiant necessary, although there is a line for an officiant to sign if that is the route the coupe chooses. This can be done right at the clerk's desk, or the couple can take the license, do whatever it is they'd like to do, then return with it signed and file it themselves, I think they have 30 days from when it was issued to do this.

    It is completely possible that Addie and her husband (FI at the time) (and millions of other people) signed their license at the clerk's office in their county, brought it to the site of their ceremony, said what needed saying, THEN their officiant signed (and presumably filed it for them) and BAM! they were married. Doesn't mean they were legally married prior to their wedding ceremony.

    There isn't a "one way" across all 50 states. Not even every country in every state does things the same. So perhaps I've caused confusion for some by referring to the signing of a license as the act of legally getting married, but that's only in places where self solemnization is legal. Many more places require an officiant, some type of language must be used (I now pronounce you.....) then the signature of the officiant.

    The idea of bantering about "who may have had an inadvertent "PPD" is silly and is taking a thread that is already stupid as hell and making it worse. It's already a made up notion only existing in the forums of TK, I'm certain most reasonable people followed whatever legal regulations there were in their jurisdiction to get married how they thought best.

    This must be really convenient for people who want to have destination weddings, but don't want to worry about the rules of the destination country. They can take their CO license, have their wedding ceremony, sign the thing, and then bring it back to the county clerk. Easy breezy!



    Yes, that could work for many from self-solemnizing states that choose DW's. Nothing is stopping anyone from doing that. I'm sure many do this. Guess it doesn't help with the whole "the guests won't really be seeing the couple get REALLY married" thing though. It won't be legit until it is filed after all. But sure, people could go this route if they wanted to.



  • This is kind of painful. Legal requirements vary from place to place. In some regions the couple signs their license when they get it from their government office but then it's only a done deal once a proper officiant says what need so to be said then signs him/herself.

    Other places, no one signs until after the officiant says what needs to be said then everyone signs.

    In other places still, like CO, all that needs to happen is the couple signs then files. No officiant necessary, although there is a line for an officiant to sign if that is the route the coupe chooses. This can be done right at the clerk's desk, or the couple can take the license, do whatever it is they'd like to do, then return with it signed and file it themselves, I think they have 30 days from when it was issued to do this.

    It is completely possible that Addie and her husband (FI at the time) (and millions of other people) signed their license at the clerk's office in their county, brought it to the site of their ceremony, said what needed saying, THEN their officiant signed (and presumably filed it for them) and BAM! they were married. Doesn't mean they were legally married prior to their wedding ceremony.

    There isn't a "one way" across all 50 states. Not even every country in every state does things the same. So perhaps I've caused confusion for some by referring to the signing of a license as the act of legally getting married, but that's only in places where self solemnization is legal. Many more places require an officiant, some type of language must be used (I now pronounce you.....) then the signature of the officiant.

    The idea of bantering about "who may have had an inadvertent "PPD" is silly and is taking a thread that is already stupid as hell and making it worse. It's already a made up notion only existing in the forums of TK, I'm certain most reasonable people followed whatever legal regulations there were in their jurisdiction to get married how they thought best.

    This must be really convenient for people who want to have destination weddings, but don't want to worry about the rules of the destination country. They can take their CO license, have their wedding ceremony, sign the thing, and then bring it back to the county clerk. Easy breezy!



    Yes, that could work for many from self-solemnizing states that choose DW's. Nothing is stopping anyone from doing that. I'm sure many do this. Guess it doesn't help with the whole "the guests won't really be seeing the couple get REALLY married" thing though. It won't be legit until it is filed after all. But sure, people could go this route if they wanted to.

  • Honestly, sometimes when I look at this thread and see 10 new comments or whatever, I just can't. 
    I just feel like a mother sitting on the couch, up to her eyeballs with the sound of bickering from down the hall.

    And I wish I could just shout, "HEY. Enough with the bitching and whining. If I have to get up and come in there, there will be fucking consequences!"

    But that doesn't work with (mostly) adults. I wish it did.

    Don't make me turn this car around.
    scrunchythiefperdonami
  • I need confirmation on this, but isn't the one thing that remains constant in all 50 states is that no one is legally married until the paperwork is filed? And that is done after the officiant signs it, no?
    image
  • I need confirmation on this, but isn't the one thing that remains constant in all 50 states is that no one is legally married until the paperwork is filed? And that is done after the officiant signs it, no?

    Partially correct. All 50 states require the filing of the license. Not all require the signature of an officiant. That is where self-solemnization comes in. Only the couple needs to sign. Although in CO for example, there is a place for an officiant to sign, but it's not a requirement, just an option.

  • I need confirmation on this, but isn't the one thing that remains constant in all 50 states is that no one is legally married until the paperwork is filed? And that is done after the officiant signs it, no?

    Partially correct. All 50 states require the filing of the license. Not all require the signature of an officiant. That is where self-solemnization comes in. Only the couple needs to sign. Although in CO for example, there is a place for an officiant to sign, but it's not a requirement, just an option.
    Ok, so when the paperwork is filed, the couple is legally married.
    Do any states require the paperwork to be filed before any ceremony takes place? Like, do any of the states have you come in, sign the papers, then immediately file them the second you sign them?
    image
  • I need confirmation on this, but isn't the one thing that remains constant in all 50 states is that no one is legally married until the paperwork is filed? And that is done after the officiant signs it, no?
    Partially correct. All 50 states require the filing of the license. Not all require the signature of an officiant. That is where self-solemnization comes in. Only the couple needs to sign. Although in CO for example, there is a place for an officiant to sign, but it's not a requirement, just an option.
    Ok, so when the paperwork is filed, the couple is legally married. Do any states require the paperwork to be filed before any ceremony takes place? Like, do any of the states have you come in, sign the papers, then immediately file them the second you sign them?
    That I can't answer. But that would seem like there would be an element of self-solemnization involved because if you signed, then filed immediately how would the jurisdiction know you actually had a ceremony?

    There was a woman on Wedding Wire earlier this year who lives and was married in Hawaii. Maui I believe. She had a post about her marriage license and if I remember correctly she and her FI had to go and take care of the licensing like a month out and there were some weird hoops to jump through but I don't remember the particulars. I do remember thinking at the time it sounded slightly complicated or rather involved based on her post but I don't remember exactly what made me think that. 

    I might be bias because I do adore CO so darned much, I just don't understand jurisdictions that require any more than self-solemnization. It's great if a couple wants a ceremony of some type, I just do not see how a state or county benefits by requiring it. 

  • katiebelle2882

    please show me the law that says a marriage must be consummated?

    I think your confused, not consummating a marriage is not grounds for an annulment to my knowledge.  I believe the INABILITY to consummate a marriage may be in some places but just not having sex isn't enough.
    Don't worry guys, I have the Wedding Police AND the Whambulance on speed dial!
  • Sigh. Are we still on this not really relevant consummation tangent? 

    image
    image
    perdonami
  • So, completely keeping off-topic, with the exception of the woman being a virgin, how does one prove that a marriage was or wasn't consummated in order to be granted an annulment?
    image
    perdonami
  • lightningsnowlightningsnow New Hampshire member
    Fourth Anniversary 250 Love Its 100 Comments First Answer
    I get etiquette and all, but what blows my mind is that anyone has people they consider real friends or relatives who would care or be "outraged"  if you got legally married before the actual symbolic ceremony. I actually find that kind of sad. I would assume many people wouldnt consider themselves married until they did the symbolic ceremony since the other stuff is just paper and what is important to some couples is that all their loved ones are there to see it. For destination weddings many people don't want to be legally married in a different country so if they do the courthouse thing a few days before they head to wherever they are going then so be it. Wouldn't anyone you consider a loved one understand that? And if they don't you would just think they are petty? I don't go to weddings of people I love to see them legally tie the knot then and there lol. I go to weddings to be supportive of a couple and to celebrate their marriage regardless of when it happened. And frankly I find it an honor to even be a guest at a wedding because it means you are important to them. If I thought any wedding was someone being greedy I wouldn't go to it at all regardless of when they were "legally" married. To each their own though. I see both points of view, I just don't personally know anyone who would be pissed about such a thing, or even go as far to inquire if someone was "really" getting married at the ceremony or not. That strikes me as incredibly rude. I agree with not actively lying about it, but at the same time I wonder what kind of people would seek out such petty information to begin with? To each their own. This thread was enlightening though that is for sure-I had no idea!
    First of all, paragraphs are your friends.

    Second, in regards to the bolded, you can easily research a destination in which you can legally marry your spouse at the same time. My brother and SIL got married in Bermuda, where it was legally recognized here. No bloodwork or weird requests needed. It was a beautiful ceremony overlooking the beach.

    They told family they were going there to get married and if you wanted to join them you were more than welcome to do so. If you couldn't afford it, they didn't hold it against you. I admire them for doing it the way they did. If they married beforehand and lied, I'd be pissed and my parents would be pissed.

    My parents then held an at home cookout celebrating their marriage a few weeks later. If you truly want to marry at a specific destination, it does not take much to research what you need to do to have it be legal at the same time you marry your spouse.

    JFC! You snowflakes are so damn irritating.
    Formerly known as bubbles053009





This discussion has been closed.
Choose Another Board
Search Boards