Vow renewals and 2nd weddings after JOPing, are they ever ok?

Cantia · July 2010

We've just had several posts about vow renewals, 2nd weddings after JOPing and the like, and it's got me thinking.

Are there any circumstances in which you would say a 2nd wedding ceremony is acceptable? Deploying? Serious paperwork issues? Anything?

/discuss

I may be opening Pandora's box here, but I'm curious.

future-mrs · July 2010

My opinion: it depends. I don't care for people JOP'ing it and then turning around and having a wedding without telling anyone they are already married (obviously.)

I do understand people JOP'ing it for all of those various reasons you listed but you can always plan a large wedding in the first place...and you can do it fast or you can wait however long. For instance, if someones FI is deployed and they know they'll be back in a year and a half...plan a wedding 2 years out. Or if it's for financial reasons, weddings can and have been planned in a matter of a few months.

Also, I think that vow renewals for elderly couples (like for 50th anniversary's, etc.) are definitely something to be celebrated.

It just completely depends on the circumstances in my book. I think couples should really consider the future when planning how they are going to get married...if you are going to regret eloping or something like that later, then plan a wedding.

brilibby4 · July 2010

I don't think so. I guess I don't see the point in having a wedding after you are already married. Like PP, in all of those situations I still feel the bride and groom choose to JOP it. They could wait or throw a small wedding if they wanted. Either way, having a JOP is still a wedding and you don't get two.

ebonyivory10 · July 2010

The only thing I don't like is when people lie about having already been married. As long as they are honest, I think they should do whatever they want. Having a vow renewal or a reception after being married seems fine. It's all about celebrating your marriage with loved ones and having it at the time of the JOP or later on doesn't make it any less of a celebration in my opinion.

Lyss5782 · July 2010

I think I'm okay with a second RECEPTION, but not a second WEDDING. No showers, overdone bridal gowns, bridesmaids, etc.

quotequeen · July 2010

If people really want to do it, then whatever. (As long as they're honest about it.) But I can't think of any circumstances under which I would attend.

SparrowSong · July 2010

Case by case basis. I think for me, it comes down to the entitlement thing again. It's the couples that think they deserve it all. "We have to get married this second because it will save us $300 on health insurance per month. We want the benefits of marriage. But oh no, we're not REALLY married. Our REAL wedding is in two years when we can afford my big puffy dress and Chicken Kiev for 200. And we want a shower and a bachelor/ette party and a honeymoon registry. Because we weren't REALLY married before."

There's nothing wrong with having reasons to get married quickly. If you need to get married immediately, then own it. Be proud of a romantic elopement. But accept that there are some things you are giving up as a trade off. If you can't live without a traditional wedding, have reasons to wait, need to save up for a fancy wedding, then accept the compromises you have to make to do it. It just is annoying to think you get all the benefits of marriage early while not really considering yourself married, just so you can have a big hoopla with presents and such when it's more convenient.

temerityjane · July 2010

For a while, I agreed with everyone else and said that as long as you don't lie about the fact that you're already married, having a second whatever wasn't a big deal.

However, I don't actually think that anymore. I cannot really think of a legitimate reason to do the whole thing over, except for desire for gifts or attention or because of some sense of entitlement to the whole wedding ordeal.

Receptions are fine, vow renewals for 25th or 50th anniversaries or whatever are fine. JOP'ing and then having something that could easily be termed a "wedding," whether everyone knows you are already married or not - not fine.

megk8oz · July 2010

I'm definitely a "case by case" person when it comes to this.

I know 1 couple that JOP'd and then had a "pretty princess day" and another couple that did it and is planning a PPD.

The first couple did it for health insurance reasons and immediately considered themselves married. The only reason they had the 2nd "wedding" is because her parents found out that they got married without any family members there (Which, was a jerk move on the couple's part, imo) and basically insisted they have a "real" wedding that the family could attend. The couple really didn't give a crap about the 2nd wedding and pretty much said "We're only doing this to shut you people up". So in their case, I don't really think it was terrible, because they already considered themselves married and knew the second wedding was not the "real" one.

The other couple got married because she got KU and didn't want to have a baby out of wedlock. But even though she feels she feels guilt-free about not having a baby out of wedlock "technically", she still doesn't believe she's married, if that makes any sense. So she wants a PPD with the pretty dress and fancy party, and in her mind, that will be their "real" wedding. A few times I've tried asking her how she's not "really" married, but her child isn't "born out of wedlock" and she doesn't have an actual answer. So I judge the living sh!t out of her.

sarah0725 · July 2010

I've never actually been in a situation where I saw this happen in real life - so far it's only been hearing about it on the Knot. It also seems to be a pretty recent trend, as in the old days it was more common for people to go away on their own to get married. I think it all has to do with the wedding industry telling us we need to have a fancy party and a big white dress, and thus people want it both ways.

Of course, saying that, I am having that fancy party and dress, but I'm also waiting a heck of a long time for it - FI and I have already been engaged for two years, and we have one more year until our wedding. So I guess I think that if a couple realy wants a wedding, they should wait to get it, because that's what we're doing.

I might have more sympathy if someone I knew and loved was in this situation, though.

chaseleyh · July 2010

My husband and I got married by a JOP on March 23rd -- it was just us, no witnesses required, no waiting period between license and ceremony, no rings, just vows. I have since changed my name and we consider ourselves married -- we don't say fiance and we've told everyone about our marriage. On September 4th we are having a wedding as most people think of it: 50 family members, only 2 friends, with wedding party, rehearsal dinner, big white gown, etc.

The September 4th date is the anniversary we will be celebrating and the day we chose as soon as we got engaged. We never planned to get married legally at an earlier date, but once we found out that we could not get a JOP to marry us at our venue (they won't leave their offices in this state) and my husband and i are both very secular with very religious families from 3 different faiths AND found out that we would not be able to get the marriage license in the state were we are getting married -- not where we live -- in the requisite 3 days prior to marriage without some major logistical problems with work. But perhaps most importantly, my grandmother is 93 with serious dementia. the only chance of my being able to tell her that we were married (and her understanding it even a little bit) was to do it asap. I am her only grandchild to ever get married and it was a very big deal for her, having lost my grandfather 4 years ago.

And so, we decided to get married in March. There was no question that we would still do the bigger ceremony in September, repeating vows, etc. though all will know that it's not the legal wedding. Both of our parents want to see us go through that process, my dad wants to walk me down the aisle, etc. And we will celebrate that date as the day we were married, because though the courthouse was always what my husband wanted, his entire life, to us, getting married is more than exchanging vows in a JOP's office -- it's saying them in front of our "village" of family. 2 weeks ago my cousin (a bridesmaid) threw me a bridal shower and we have registered for gifts, many of which we have already received. We did that prior to our wedding in March.

No one in our family has a problem with it, and neither do we. It was the only way to honor our beliefs (secular), my grandmother, and our families all at the same time. And I never realized it before it happened, but I will always treasure our JOP ceremony. It was just for us, just the two of us, and I will always hold it close to my heart.

Getting married is a personal choice and you can do it however you want. There is no etiquette with one major caveat, be HONEST about your decisions. If some people chose not to attend the 2nd ceremony or to give you a gift or attend a shower, that's their decision and all power to them. But listen to what you and your future spouse want -- with as much attention to what your family wants as you think is fair sprinkled in there -- and then enjoy!

brookelynpaisley · July 2010

I think it's on a case by case basis with me, too. For me, it really depends a lot on the bride's attitude. If she's doing it because they just wanted to be married already but still want their party and their gifts and don't want to let anyone in on their secret, then I have an issue. I understand that in this economy, people have lost jobs, and insurance is necessary. I can understand why these couples would choose to JOP it and then have a vow renewal. However, I think it's always important that guests are let in on this. I'm torn on deployments. I kind of think that's the life you're getting into when you marry military.

Personally, I think whenever you choose to get married, you should take what comes with it and consider it your wedding day. I feel like if you're adult enough to get married, you should also be able to live with the pros and cons of that decision.

Cantia · July 2010

Personally I also consider it on a case by case basis. What are their reasons? What's the time difference between both events? I'm usually ok as long as people are open about it and don't lie to their guests. I do frown at the people who *want* to JOP, and then have their princess party 2 years later with registries and all. I don't frown at all if they have practical reasons and do both events within a reasonable length of time.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · July 2010

I'm in the camp that you get one shot - so you should think long and hard about exactly what kind of wedding you want. If someone regrets JOPing, well, sorry. Plus, why is it people always regret not having the big AW party by don't regret not having a simple ceremony followed by dinner with their parents? Mmmhmm. There are few valid reasons I see for not having a "real" wedding in the first place but wanting to be married. I'm convinces you CAN plan a wedding in 3 months if you aren't picky about vendors. Or, if you want to be married that bad, JOP and live with your decision.

Weddings are a total waste of money, but hey, you get married out of it. Vow renewals are a waste of money with... pretty much no benefit. You're already married. It's also a slap in the face to people who wed at the courthouse without an elaborate wedding who consider their marriage perfectly "real" and valid. It's not good enough to do that?

If my best friend or sibling had a vow renewal, I'd go, I'd buy a gift and I'd shut my mouth. If it were an acquaintance or distant cousin, I'd just decline the invitation. In theory, anyway. I've never known someone to do this.

bel138 · July 2010

You get one shot. No exceptions.

[QUOTE]IPlus, why is it people always regret not having the big AW party by don't regret not having a simple ceremony followed by dinner with their parents? Mmmhmm.
Posted by msmerymac[/QUOTE]
Actually, I do. I don't have many good memories of our wedding day.

InferiorToKaos · July 2010

I guess I've always thought of a vow renewal as a glorified anniversary party as opposed to a re-wedding. I know me personally 10-15 years down the road, we'll have a vow renewal while on a cruise or something and reaffirm our love "on top of a mountain, and there's going to be flutes playing and trombones and flowers and garlands of fresh herbs. And we will dance till the sun rises" (Anchorman quote) But we'd invite our closest family and friends to come with us. An awesome vacation to be had by all!

jayjoe · July 2010

I am lazy so i'm just going to copy and paste what i wrote on the thread beneath this:

I am def in the minority here, but personally, i could not care less if someone elopes or JOP's it and then has a big wedding and still refers to it as a wedding. I feel the same about people who renew vows after a short amount of time. If you want to do it, do it. I have a cousin who asked me to be her MOH in 95. A few months before the wedding, she called me up to tell me that in 94, her and her bf went to LV and eloped and had told no one. She later regretted it because she is an only child and her father had died when she was 2. My aunt wouldve been so sad. So they planned a big wedding and had it. As it became closer, she wound up telling everyone and guess what? NO ONE CARED LOL Our family is very small and everyone looks forward to weddings because it brings us all together. I have 3 friends who got married months before their actual wedding for insurance. No one cared. I have friends who JOP'd it due to one of them being in the military and then had big weddings later on. No one cared. I have gone to them all without any issue and with the same happiness that i wouldve had had it been their only wedding. If anyone sincerely has an issue with it, they wont go. Boo hoo.

Look, i've lost a lot of people in my life. I lost someone just last week and i am heartbroken over it. You, after what you mentioned about your hubby, of all people know how short life can be. You are having a renewal, not shooting up a school yard. Go for it and enjoy it. Life can suck sometimes so enjoy the times that dont.

As for vow renewals, i have no issue with them either. Sometimes people go through really tough times and when they still come out of it happy and in love, they want to celebrate it. I've been to several and enjoyed them all.

thesuninherhead · July 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_vow-renewals-2nd-weddings-after-joping-ever-ok?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:65125abd-01ee-4f30-9daa-1b5f50b014a3Post:62c9b718-0f78-464a-84ff-da4c27a0e577">Re: Vow renewals and 2nd weddings after JOPing, are they ever ok?</a>:
[QUOTE]You get one shot. No exceptions. Actually, I do. I don't have many good memories of our wedding day.
<p>Posted by bel138[/QUOTE]</p><p> </p><p>Why is that, Bel? I'm sorry to hear that. If it helps, you looked beautiful!</p>

PharmacyBride · July 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_vow-renewals-2nd-weddings-after-joping-ever-ok?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:65125abd-01ee-4f30-9daa-1b5f50b014a3Post:f9ae02a3-cb01-4528-b741-04c409316797">Re: Vow renewals and 2nd weddings after JOPing, are they ever ok?</a>:
[QUOTE]Case by case basis. I think for me, it comes down to the entitlement thing again. It's the couples that think they deserve it all. "We have to get married this second because it will save us $300 on health insurance per month. We want the benefits of marriage. But oh no, we're not REALLY married. Our REAL wedding is in two years when we can afford my big puffy dress and Chicken Kiev for 200. And we want a shower and a bachelor/ette party and a honeymoon registry. Because we weren't REALLY married before." There's nothing wrong with having reasons to get married quickly. If you need to get married immediately, then own it. Be proud of a romantic elopement. But accept that there are some things you are giving up as a trade off. If you can't live without a traditional wedding, have reasons to wait, need to save up for a fancy wedding, then accept the compromises you have to make to do it. It just is annoying to think you get all the benefits of marriage early while not really considering yourself married, just so you can have a big hoopla with presents and such when it's more convenient.
Posted by SparrowSong[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>this .. i can't say it better.. so i wont even try

</div>

Kristin789 · July 2010

No.
For more details, click on this link"

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/28/AR2006012800896_pf.html">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/28/AR2006012800896_pf.html

jayjoe · July 2010

Well as long as Miss Manners says...LOL

luckyme502 · July 2010

My first wedding was JOP followed immediately with a cake and punch reception for 20 of our friends and family. The reason, he was getting deployed and we wanted to be married before he left. So, I abandoned all the plans for my big wedding, which was supposed to take place one year later and just did what we needed to do. I agree, you get one wedding, and if it's at the JOP, that's it, you are married, having a big PPD six months later is an attention whore, gift grabby, lets lose track of what's important, our marriage, selfish thing to do. Not that I have an opinion or anything.

blackfire5th · July 2010

I used to be okay with this, but the more I read about people trying to justify why it is okay has made me realize that almost no one has a good excuse except they want the PPD.

So, for the most part I am in the one shot category. I understand the difference between the legal and religious ceremonies, so if someone had a very short notice of losing their insurance and your religious leader would not marry you that quickly (not enough pre-wedding counseling for example) I would be okay with that. However, I have seen a very nice wedding put together in one week and many churches can set up weddings quickly as well, so I would think this is a very rare circumstance. However, if you were local or immediate family, I would go and keep my thoughts to myself and I would get the couple a gift for their second wedding.

Goldlie11 · July 2010

I think that JOP weddings can be very special. Some of the most spectacular weddings that I've seen on blogs and bios have been JOP weddings. I've known people who have JOPed it and are very happy with that. Usually that's because they took their closest loved ones. I've also known people who have gotten married with no family or friends to witness it, and regret that fact.

As for the renewal, I think they can be a bit silly at times. I do know that some couples have come through hard times and want to renew their vows. This usually comes after they've been married for quite a while. I don't think it's that bad of an idea in this case.

I will admit that I have a family member who had a quickly planned at home wedding due to her husband's deployment. She is still upset about it. They are coming up on 15 years of marriage. I told her that she might want to have a vow renewal or anniversary party if it will make her feel better. I'd go. It's not as if they've been deceiving people.

t.kaufman · July 2010

I think there are plenty of legit reasons for going to the JOP and then having a reception and/or bigger ceremony later. The whole point of a wedding is to have your friends and family around you to support and celebrate your marriage, so why does it matter if you've legally already married? I think that everyone on here should step back and try to consider what it would be like to be in that position that it is necessary to JOP it.

This trend of JOP then wedding/reception seems to actually be quite common. I don't know very many people, but I can think of 4 couples right now that have done this for different reasons. Good reasons to get married right away: health insurance benefits, someone might die [spouse, grandma, mom etc] and you want to get married before they die, spouse is deploying. One of my friends actually paid like $1,000 to get legally married without even saying vows. I guess it's some paper marriage for people in the military so that you can get married even while one of you is deployed. So she hasn't said vows or anything, but is legally married, and will be having the big ceremony/reception next spring. The reason they felt like they had to be married was that he wanted to make sure she was covered if someting happened to him.

I know another engaged couple that should have JOP'd it, but didn't. He got denied health insurance - like no one would cover him. He could have been covered through his FI's employer insurance if they would have been married. But he wasn't covered and ended up having to have his appendix removed which cost $25,000. So now, on top of the wedding costs, they have that. And now I'm going to come out of the "closet" and say that we also JOP'd it for exactly this reason - why go bankrupt over expected or unexpected medical care, when you could be covered? Personally, it seems really stupid financially to not get legally married as soon as you know you want to be married and then worry about having a big party to celebrate with friends and family. My friends and family support this decision and are happy to celebrate our marriage with us.

If you are lucky enough to have good jobs, good health benefits, no one dying, no one potentially dying, plenty of money to throw the party you want as soon as you want, then good for you! But try not to judge the people who are not as lucky and had to do the smart thing for themselves.

temerityjane · July 2010

Yes, people have PLENTY of reasons to JOP it quickly. It's having the big wedding afterwards that there isn't really a reason for.

However, if you'll notice, everyone who chooses to go that route writes a long rack of reasons why it is okay for them to do it, so those who think it is okay will never be swayed by those who think it isn't.

As I said, I agree that there are plenty of reasons to JOP. I just can't think of a non-entitlement-based reason to have the big wedding afterwards.

t.kaufman · July 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_vow-renewals-2nd-weddings-after-joping-ever-ok?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:65125abd-01ee-4f30-9daa-1b5f50b014a3Post:5ac6b70d-d03b-40c0-a2b3-86ebe9d05517">Re: Vow renewals and 2nd weddings after JOPing, are they ever ok?</a>:
[QUOTE]Yes, people have PLENTY of reasons to JOP it quickly. It's having the big wedding afterwards that there isn't really a reason for. However, if you'll notice, everyone who chooses to go that route writes a long rack of reasons why it is okay for them to do it, so those who think it is okay will never be swayed by those who think it isn't. As I said, I agree that there are plenty of reasons to JOP.<strong> I just can't think of a non-entitlement-based reason to have the big wedding afterwards</strong>.
Posted by temerityjane[/QUOTE]

Just curious, what kind of wedding are you having? what are your reasons for having it that way? to gather friends and family for a fun party to celebrate your marriage? us too.

temerityjane · July 2010

Yes, but we're not married yet.

mica178 · July 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_vow-renewals-2nd-weddings-after-joping-ever-ok?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:65125abd-01ee-4f30-9daa-1b5f50b014a3Post:eb3b8d36-6b7b-4cc6-864e-a4f635749dc6">Re: Vow renewals and 2nd weddings after JOPing, are they ever ok?</a>:
[QUOTE]I think there are plenty of legit reasons for going to the JOP and then having a reception and/or bigger ceremony later. The whole point of a wedding is to have your friends and family around you to support and celebrate your marriage, so why does it matter if you've legally already married? I think that everyone on here should step back and try to consider what it would be like to be in that position that it is necessary to JOP it. This trend of JOP then wedding/reception seems to actually be quite common. I don't know very many people, but I can think of 4 couples right now that have done this for different reasons. Good reasons to get married right away: health insurance benefits, someone might die [spouse, grandma, mom etc] and you want to get married before they die, spouse is deploying. One of my friends actually paid like $1,000 to get legally married without even saying vows. I guess it's some paper marriage for people in the military so that you can get married even while one of you is deployed. So she hasn't said vows or anything, but is legally married, and will be having the big ceremony/reception next spring. The reason they felt like they had to be married was that he wanted to make sure she was covered if someting happened to him. I know another engaged couple that should have JOP'd it, but didn't. He got denied health insurance - like no one would cover him. He could have been covered through his FI's employer insurance if they would have been married. But he wasn't covered and ended up having to have his appendix removed which cost $25,000. So now, on top of the wedding costs, they have that. And now I'm going to come out of the "closet" and say that we also JOP'd it for exactly this reason - why go bankrupt over expected or unexpected medical care, when you could be covered? Personally, it seems really stupid financially to not get legally married as soon as you know you want to be married and then worry about having a big party to celebrate with friends and family. My friends and family support this decision and are happy to celebrate our marriage with us. If you are lucky enough to have good jobs, good health benefits, no one dying, no one potentially dying, plenty of money to throw the party you want as soon as you want, then good for you! But try not to judge the people who are not as lucky and had to do the smart thing for themselves.
Posted by t.kaufman[/QUOTE]

No one is faulting people who have quickie JOP weddings. We all get married for our own personal reasons, and if there's a pressing need for it to be sooner than you can plan your big white wedding, then so be it.

But then you are married. So I don't understand why you get a second day with the poofy dress and the showers and the huge wedding party. You're already married. You made a (valid) choice to not delay the marriage because of deployment or insurance or deportation or pregnancy. With that, you've given up your rights for the full blown wedding.

I don't understand how people who are legally married think "We're not really married until xyz." Yes you are. You started receiving the benefit of your spouse's insurance or citizenship or whatever the day you signed the license and certificate. Just because 200 people weren't there in their Sunday's best doesn't change the fact.

My parents JOP'd it 37 years ago. They never did a second ceremony. Are you telling me their marriage isn't valid?

I think vow renewals at 25 or 50 years are sweet, and I sort of hope my parents do one in 13 years. But vow renewals at 6 months or a year are just gift grabs.

My policy is that you only have one wedding. I have boycotted a cousin's wedding because she eloped and then planned a huge 500 person wedding 6 months later (cash gifts only, please).

temerityjane · July 2010

I also think that if having friends and family witness your marriage was so important, you'd have invited them to your actual marriage.

megk8oz · July 2010

Like I said, I will judge case by case, but for the most part, I believe it's a one shot deal.

I didn't have health insurance, DH did. We had to pay for the wedding ourselves, and we didn't have a lot of money. So we did toy with the idea of a JOP, then having a party later. In the end, we decided to wait. Why? Because we both knew we'd regret ... and that acting like the second ceremony was the "real" wedding was cheating. We realized that the day we received a marriage certificate was our actual wedding day, no matter how you try to slice it, and so we made the decision to treat it as such.

Was not having the insurance a risk? Yes, it was. But in the end, we planned the wedding we knew we wouldn't regret. It wasn't incredibly expensive by wedding standards, but I got my pretty dress and we were able to have our nearest and dearest celebrate with us.

If something had come up and I needed the insurance (Like a pregnancy), or we needed the money because I didn't have the insurance (Like an emergency surgery), then we would have dealt with it accordingly, by either going to the JOP or taking from our wedding fund. But I knew no matter what happened, I wasn't entitled to a "do-over" later on.

So I made the decision to not have regrets and was prepared to deal with any consequences that came from it. So if I was able to think it through on such a level, then yes, I feel like pretty much everybody else should do the same.

Vow renewals and 2nd weddings after JOPing, are they ever ok?

Re: Vow renewals and 2nd weddings after JOPing, are they ever ok?

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