Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom

mrsalbee · August 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_another-money-sahm-vs-working-mom?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:a6851628-5147-41a7-ad5a-1ecfe9f8a0e2Post:c675478a-02f9-4d61-af4b-795e753826dd">Re: Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom</a>:
[QUOTE]In another note, I've been lurking on TB lately, and there's a controversy over there re: working moms. Apparently someone said that working moms are choosing material things/money over their children. What do you think about that?
Posted by kikibaby[/QUOTE]

I don't think it's right to judge a woman for wanting to work and have a career! I am a SAHM, but to each their own. It's all about personal preference, what you can afford, and what you want to sacrifice. My FI and I sacrifice alot of material things in order for me to stay home with our son. That's a choice we made together.

As I stated before, I used to work in childcare. Our facility is open 5:00 AM - 6:00 PM. There were some children who were there basically all day. Many of those children had behavioral problems. Now, I am not saying every child that was at daycare all day are brats, I am just stating what I saw at my old employer.

Since having my son, I don't see the point for me to work if I can't enjoy seeing him grow up.

APW2010 · August 2010

So many of these conversations assume that the mom makes less. There is no way I could be a SAHM because we can't live on FI's income (I make a lot more), but unless his work situation changes (which he is looking for another job) or we can convince a family member to provide free childcare, he will have to be a SAHD because his income is less than the cost of infant daycare.

I do get frustrated because a lot of our whole system is built around assuming the woman makes less.

tldh · August 2010

Will be a working mom. It's going to be hard enough getting back into legal practice because of the year off (laid off from firm and just sat for bar in new state). If you have a professional degree like doctor or lawyer, you can't just take off a few years and go back to it. You have to at least work part time just to be able to go back full time. Think about it. Would you go to a doctor or lawyer who hasn't practiced in 5, 10, 15 years?

mrsalbee · August 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_another-money-sahm-vs-working-mom?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:a6851628-5147-41a7-ad5a-1ecfe9f8a0e2Post:c259b121-ef8a-4a4a-bbcc-7912c4e18861">Re: Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom</a>:
[QUOTE]So many of these conversations assume that the mom makes less. There is no way I could be a SAHM because we can't live on FI's income (I make a lot more), but unless his work situation changes (which he is looking for another job) or we can convince a family member to provide free childcare, he will have to be a SAHD because his income is less than the cost of infant daycare. I do get frustrated because a lot of our whole system is built around assuming the woman makes less.
Posted by APW2010[/QUOTE]

Yeah, it's hard to shake the connotation of SAHM rather than SAHD! My best friend makes more money than her husband and she said she would be resentful if he got to stay with the baby and she didn't. Hes a personal trainer and shes a nurse, so it makes more sense for her to work. He hasnt found a job as a PT yet, so maybe that will change for them. At least one of you will get to stay at home! :-)

Stackeye210 · August 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_another-money-sahm-vs-working-mom?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a6851628-5147-41a7-ad5a-1ecfe9f8a0e2Post:c259b121-ef8a-4a4a-bbcc-7912c4e18861">Re: Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom</a>:
[QUOTE]So many of these conversations assume that the mom makes less. There is no way I could be a SAHM because we can't live on FI's income (I make a lot more), but unless his work situation changes (which he is looking for another job) or we can convince a family member to provide free childcare, he will have to be a SAHD because his income is less than the cost of infant daycare. I do get frustrated because a lot of our whole system is built around assuming the woman makes less.
Posted by APW2010[/QUOTE]

No need to get frustrated, nobody is assuming anything here about wages man v. woman - we've had 3 discussions today on money and this is the last in an series of talks where it was all compared. If you read back to some other money posts and polls posted today you'll see that nobody would automatically assume the woman was the lesser money earner of the two.

mrsalbee · August 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_another-money-sahm-vs-working-mom?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:a6851628-5147-41a7-ad5a-1ecfe9f8a0e2Post:886d0a1a-5cb8-41af-b8e0-fedc6d7e1525">Re: Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom</a>:
[QUOTE]i agree. the working mothers i know go out and buy stuff for their children before they spend on themselves. and i hate when people think stay at home moms have it easy. they don't. they're working. and they don't get to leave their job. i get to leave my desk at the end of the day. atay at home mamas don't.
Posted by mandysmear[/QUOTE]

I am so glad you said this! 2 of my good friends who are nurses, both are currently trying for children, were complaining about working like 3 weekends in a row and how they had to go back to work on Monday. I said "Well, I am on call 24/7! I can't call in sick and I work every weekend!"

Sometimes, I think people are in love with the "idea" of a "baby" and don't realize that it's a toddler, an adolescent, a teenager, and an adult!

salt78 · August 2010

We do need my income, so I will keep working. But even if we didn't I have no desire to ever be a SAHM. If I didn't work, I feel like I'd go nuts.

The nice thing about my job though is that I have the option to work from home if need be.

danieliza1127 · August 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_another-money-sahm-vs-working-mom?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a6851628-5147-41a7-ad5a-1ecfe9f8a0e2Post:4598d3a5-d8e1-4866-8a94-69e9765bbb59">Re: Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom : I am so glad you said this! 2 of my good friends who are nurses, both are currently trying for children, were complaining about working like 3 weekends in a row and how they had to go back to work on Monday. I said "Well, I am on call 24/7! I can't call in sick and I work every weekend!"
Posted by mrsalbee[/QUOTE]

Well to be fair, it's okay for people to have their own complaints. If I work and complain about my schedule or how much I'm working, I'm allowed to have those complaints. It's totally different than caring for your own child who you love and have chosen to stay home and take care of. Them complaining about their life is not in any way making a judgment about yours.

I just think it's unfair to think that your friends shouldn't complain about their jobs. Everyone has something they want to complain about. It's not saying anything about you or the fact that you stay home.

That's like when someone complains about their job and someone else says, well at least you have a job to go to. Yes that's true, but my feelings are still valid.

I think your reaction to your friends just adds fuel to the working mom vs SAHM mom fire. It's kind of condescending.

arbolita · August 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_another-money-sahm-vs-working-mom?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a6851628-5147-41a7-ad5a-1ecfe9f8a0e2Post:4598d3a5-d8e1-4866-8a94-69e9765bbb59">Re: Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom : I am so glad you said this! 2 of my good friends who are nurses, both are currently trying for children, were complaining about working like 3 weekends in a row and how they had to go back to work on Monday. I said "Well, I am on call 24/7! I can't call in sick and I work every weekend!" Sometimes, I think people are in love with the "idea" of a "baby" and don't realize that it's a toddler, an adolescent, a teenager, and an adult!
Posted by mrsalbee[/QUOTE]

My big issue with this mindset is that working parents, when they get home, are still parents. So when they get home and are there on weekends, they are still doing the job of being a parent. They are also on call 24/7 if their child needs them.

danieliza1127 · August 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_another-money-sahm-vs-working-mom?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a6851628-5147-41a7-ad5a-1ecfe9f8a0e2Post:14703e82-8373-4350-aef5-445f27fbc09d">Re: Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom : My big issue with this mindset is that working parents, when they get home, are still parents. So when they get home and are there on weekends, they are still doing the job of being a parent. They are also on call 24/7 if their child needs them.
Posted by arbolita[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that too. Every parent is on call 24/7, right?

squirrly · August 2010

:Nods along with Dani & Arb:

Sing2phins · August 2010

I'm so glad to see that so many of you have cleaning people. That is definitely something I want to look into, though it may need to wait until we have a house. Cleaning is really the only major issue D and I have - I feel like I do 90%+ of it, just because it bothers me more than it bothers him.

If I could have someone come in every two weeks or even just once a month to do the big stuff (good lord, I hate dusting), that would ease a lot of stress.

mrsalbee · August 2010

I didn't mean to come off condescending :-( I dont hold anything against them for complaining about their job, I used to complain about my job all the time when I worked haha. I just thought it was funny (cant find the right word to explain), in their situation, because they are both trying to have babies. It's a 24/7 job, not just a 3-4 days a week job.

I do agree that a parent is still a parent when they are not at work and on weekends. I didnt mean for it to come off like they arent as good of a parent just because they work. My FI works and he is still a great father to our little one when he gets home! Every parent is on call 24/7 because many of them miss work due to illnesses their children get.

Their career choice is to be a nurse and help people in need, and my "job" is to stay at home and take care of my son. I was trying to explain how my "job" is 24/7 and theirs isn't. Mandysmear made reference to how she can leave her desk at the end of the day and SAHM/SAHD don't. That's all...

andyandhillary · August 2010

My biggest issue with cleaning people is that they rarely do as good of a job as I do. My mom cleaned houses for a few years to make extra money and I learned to clean like her. It sets a ridiculously high standard for everyone else.

arbolita · August 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_another-money-sahm-vs-working-mom?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a6851628-5147-41a7-ad5a-1ecfe9f8a0e2Post:dcee155e-7c44-4eab-9d4b-9ef8c58e950f">Re: Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom</a>:
[QUOTE]I didn't mean to come off condescending :-( I dont hold anything against them for complaining about their job, I used to complain about my job all the time when I worked haha. I just thought it was funny (cant find the right word to explain), in their situation, because they are both trying to have babies. It's a 24/7 job, not just a 3-4 days a week job. I do agree that a parent is still a parent when they are not at work and on weekends. I didnt mean for it to come off like they arent as good of a parent just because they work. My FI works and he is still a great father to our little one when he gets home! Every parent is on call 24/7 because many of them miss work due to illnesses their children get. Their career choice is to be a nurse and help people in need, and my "job" is to stay at home and take care of my son.<strong> I was trying to explain how my "job" is 24/7 and theirs isn't. Mandysmear made reference to how she can leave her desk at the end of the day and SAHM/SAHD don't. That's all...</strong>
Posted by mrsalbee[/QUOTE]

Then technically all they are doing is leaving one job and going to another.

clearheavens · August 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_another-money-sahm-vs-working-mom?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a6851628-5147-41a7-ad5a-1ecfe9f8a0e2Post:c4502180-e964-4ae2-a75a-ab105df91027">Re: Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom</a>:
[QUOTE]Will be a working mom. It's going to be hard enough getting back into legal practice because of the year off (laid off from firm and just sat for bar in new state). If you have a professional degree like doctor or lawyer, you can't just take off a few years and go back to it. You have to at least work part time just to be able to go back full time. Think about it. Would you go to a doctor or lawyer who hasn't practiced in 5, 10, 15 years?
Posted by tldh[/QUOTE]

<div>I agree on this. Being an aerospace engineer where there was 1 female to every 20 males, I couldn't stop working completely then expect to get my job back at the same pay or even at all. Some research has shown that professional women who leave work for 8 or more years will take at least a 20% pay cut. It is like this in many professional fields. Being a part-time engineer or job-sharing as an engineer also wasn't possible. You're full-time or you're not.</div><div>
</div><div>Also something to think about: in my childhood psychology classes, we were shown statistics of the pros and cons of working mothers on their children. They seem to be getting bad rep lately and I want to shed some insight on this:</div><div>
</div><div>In some families where finances is a huge struggle, having a working mother and putting the children in daycare can be a plus. Seeing their mothers working hard at work and then again hard when she comes home from work helps children understand hard work and motivate children to do better in school. And the income helps meet their kids' financial needs and may even finance other enriching programs like summer camp, music lessons, and so on that they would not be able to get without a dual income household. And actually, this is the case for most mothers in the entire world.</div><div>
</div><div>Also, mothers who typically didn't have a great education themselves have a hard time knowing <em>how</em> to read to their children, <em>how</em> to tutor them in subjects that they are weak in themselves, <em>how</em> to play games with them, especially when they are preoccupied with how to stretch that dollar to the end of the month to make ends meet. Sometimes, good, enriching toys is also a luxury, and these aren't available at home. So just having a mother at home doesn't automatically mean a child's environment is enriching. In these cases, good daycare is usually the better alternative to their home environment because it provides children with the place to socialize, play, and learn.</div><div>
</div><div>I think it all comes with how <em>you</em>, as their mother, think you can best serve your child. A child will benefit the most from what will make you happy and feel self-fulfilled. If having their financial needs is more dire, then that's what you have to do, and you will be more self-fulfilled by seeing that they are being provided for. If having their parent at home to engage with them, teach them, care for their special needs, and personally and be there for them at all times is more important than having someone else (relatives, babysitter, daycare) help you do this for you, then that's what you have to do.</div><div>
</div><div>In either case, being a mother will be about sacrifice and a lot of hard work. Sitting on the couch and eating bon bons all day is not a possibility for any good mother.</div>

danieliza1127 · August 2010

I guess my point was just:

when a parent/Mom says things like "well my job is 24/7, I can't call in sick or take a vacation day" to someone who isn't a parent...it comes off as condescending, and it just hurts the whole working mom vs SAHM thing because it makes your friend feel like they can't express their feelings to you. A job outside the home is totally different than being a parent or a SAHM, so they should be able to complain to you, you can complain to them, that's just life. When you say something like that to your friend who is expressing their feelings to you about their job, you make them feel like you think their feeling isn't valid, like your job as a SAHM is more than their job as whatever they are. Complaining about work schedules or a job doesn't mean they aren't ready to be parents, and that's what it sounded like you were insinuating. I guess I'm just saying, be aware of when you say things like that because it comes off a lot different than you intend it to.

arbolita · August 2010

A job outside the home is totally different than being a parent or a SAHM

Exactly. It's comparing apples and oranges when you try to talk about the differences of being a SAHM to someone who works and has no kids.

mrsalbee · August 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_another-money-sahm-vs-working-mom?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:a6851628-5147-41a7-ad5a-1ecfe9f8a0e2Post:4f1cc54d-01ea-4ef3-b83e-92064041966d">Re: Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom</a>:
[QUOTE]I guess my point was just: when a parent/Mom says things like "well my job is 24/7, I can't call in sick or take a vacation day" to someone who isn't a parent...it comes off as condescending, and it just hurts the whole working mom vs SAHM thing because it makes your friend feel like they can't express their feelings to you. A job outside the home is totally different than being a parent or a SAHM, so they should be able to complain to you, you can complain to them, that's just life. When you say something like that to your friend who is expressing their feelings to you about their job, you make them feel like you think their feeling isn't valid, like your job as a SAHM is more than their job as whatever they are. Complaining about work schedules or a job doesn't mean they aren't ready to be parents, and that's what it sounded like you were insinuating. I guess I'm just saying, be aware of when you say things like that because it comes off a lot different than you intend it to.
Posted by danieliza1127[/QUOTE]

Okay, well I am not a mean person and I certainly wouldn't intentionally be condescending to someone.

I applaud women who work full time and are mothers, or even work hard at their career and don't have children yet.

The way I see it, they were "complaining" about their job, which their points were valid, anyone with a job would hate to have to work 3 weekend shifts in a row! I never put them down for complaining and I certainly didn't intentionally say anything that would hurt them. It was like a joke. Almost like when someone says, "I worked 50hrs this week." Then their friend replies, "oh yeah? well I worked 65hrs!" It was like a jousting of "who's better than who" type of thing. These are my friends I am talking about, not some stranger who I was intentionally belittling their profession.

Why wouldn't I be able to say that I can't take a sick day or that I am on call 24/7? That's my "job" that's my "choice" just like anyone who chooses to put their time and effort into their career. Everyone focuses their energies into different things.

I know that things can come off in the wrong tone. I apologize but I would never intentionally be condescending to someone. Everyone has their opinions and everyone is entitled to that opinion.

I never said my friends werent ready for children. There are certain things that you dont think about when you dont have children, and when you become a parent everything changes. That's all.

danieliza1127 · August 2010

I really am not trying to argue with you, I definitely don't think you're a mean person or anything! I'm just trying to show you my point of view as something to think about.

katiewhompus · August 2010

Dani I used to hate the "At least you have a job" line when I worked in retail. Yep I have a job. It requires me to work every holiday including Christmas and Thanksgiving, 14 hour days 5 days a week except for between Nov 1st to Jan 1st when I work 16 hour days 6 days a week. I get treated like shiit, paid less than most people get on unemployment, and wake up every day at 3am for work. My position was available for over 8 months after I quit, so don't tell me that 15 people out there wanted my job.

Ok, vent over

The "job venting" reminds me of the classic "Don't complain because someone else has it worse than you right now!" Well yeah, but I can still say it sucks that X happened in my life.

danieliza1127 · August 2010

Exactly Katie! Your feelings still have value, even if your experience is different from someone else's.

Calypso1977 · August 2010

i also personally hate it wehn i hear the line "being a mommy is the hardest job ive ever had". might be true, but i dont really like hearing it. at least wehn your kid screams at you or makes you angry, its your kid who you love unconditionally and pledged to take care of. very different when its a client, customer, co-worker and you cant say what you really want to or think because you'll get fired or thrown in jail.

Another money s/o- SAHM vs. Working mom

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