Kind of sad.

danieliza1127 · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_kind-of-sad?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:95ce3442-daf8-4bf9-92df-69388872a0e3Post:a7da5f86-42e9-4993-81d0-66755a269ecc">Re: Kind of sad.</a>:
[QUOTE] I don't think Rich stands up for me because he thinks I am in the wrong. He's explained that everyone else is "over" how things went initially, he's told her he thought she was rude to me initially--and that's it. I'm the one who continues to make things bad by withdrawing when she comes to town, ergo--I'm the one who needs to shape up or ship out. It's a pretty big order to fill.
Posted by RachNRich[/QUOTE]

Well how nice of <u>them</u> to be over the fact that she was incredibly rude to <u>you</u>. It sounds like they have all clearly taken her side, including Rich, and that you just either need to deal with her and make the best of it, or add it to the stack of red flags that you already know exist. I'm sorry.

RachNRich · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_kind-of-sad?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:95ce3442-daf8-4bf9-92df-69388872a0e3Post:2459b867-3b75-4eac-ac9a-1e5df6cd801e">Re: Kind of sad.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Kind of sad. : This is what I was thinking. Rach-remember you can't control her actions. You can only control your reactions. You're choosing to let the things she does get to you, and completely take control over you. You need to stop that. The fact that your actions need to be monitored when she is around tells me you've had some over the top reactions to her. That's completely within your control, and you need to monitor your own interactions with her. Seriously consider this question, and answer it honestly (although you don't have to answer here, just think about the honest answer):<strong> Is there anything she could do right now that wouldn't piss you off? Even something positive? Or would you always be looking for ulterior motives for the things she does?</strong>
Posted by betrothed123[/QUOTE]

<div>This is where I am at with myself right now. I know it's on me. I don't know if there is anything she could do that wouldn't make me mad---or that I wouldn't find fault in. I wish I could answer this--because I think it would help me a lot. </div><div>
</div><div>I wish I had an off switch--that made me stop thinking or caring when she came to town. I know, deep down, that I need to stop being so resentful--I'm just at a loss as how to get there. </div>

jasmineh7777 · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_kind-of-sad?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:95ce3442-daf8-4bf9-92df-69388872a0e3Post:4b313662-0303-4dec-b557-2bf592d0cdd2">Re: Kind of sad.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Kind of sad. : ---but, it seems like everyone else is on the page where they just want to forget them, and move on.
Posted by RachNRich[/QUOTE]

Then this might be what you have to do. You may never get the resolution you want.
It is beyond creepy that she is filtering everything through Rich, though.

crfische · February 2010

Is it possible to have an Oedipus complex with your brother?

Because that's weird.

I really dislike that he's blaming you for this.

J&K10910 · February 2010

Gosh she sounds so immature and nutty. I'm sorry you have to deal with her. And I'm sorry that Rich isn't a little more supportive. But I stand by my previous answer that you probably just need to start faking it at least. Keep the peace. It sucks, because she's being a huge asshole, but someone has to be the bigger person.

Nebb · February 2010

The way I see it, youve tried. Youve done as much as you can to be friendly and welcoming by contacting her on your own and spending time with her. She puts unnecessary pressure on you in her visits (is rach doing this to my expectations, did rach pass my tests?) and is obviously NOT over her issues or she wouldnt have forwarded all of your emails to rich looking for help with what to say.

RachNRich · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_kind-of-sad?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:95ce3442-daf8-4bf9-92df-69388872a0e3Post:e262a0c0-d56d-4bd5-888d-534511393464">Re: Kind of sad.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Kind of sad. :<strong> Well how nice of them to be over the fact that she was incredibly rude to you . </strong> It sounds like they have all clearly taken her side, including Rich, and that you just either need to deal with her and make the best of it, or add it to the stack of red flags that you already know exist. I'm sorry.
Posted by danieliza1127[/QUOTE]

<div>I tend to think this exact thing--like, wonderful. You've all moved on. That's super---but I was really hurt by it.</div><div>
</div><div>But, in the same breath---it seems like I'm doing to her what she initially did to me--which doesn't make me any better. My justification is that of a 5 year-old "well, she hurt me first---why does anyone expect me to react any differently?" </div><div>
</div><div>I think Rich would say he didn't/doesn't approve of how she treated me initially. AND---it would require him to say he doesn't approve of how I am reacting to her now. Because she has gotten over it, so should I---and since I can't, it's on me.</div>

jasmineh7777 · February 2010

It seems odd that Rich isn't supporting you in this. Does he know how upset this is making you?

I agree with faking it at this point. I have some future in-laws that are beyond offensive. I have mastered the smile and nod. Maybe just prepare yourself for the conversations before hand. Ask generic questions, and don't put pressure on yourself. If you are having anxiety before you even see her, it will be that much harder when you actually have to deal with her.

betrothed123 · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_kind-of-sad?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:95ce3442-daf8-4bf9-92df-69388872a0e3Post:f6793582-a326-463a-96bc-3764521d4dd1">Re: Kind of sad.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Kind of sad. : This is where I am at with myself right now. I know it's on me. I don't know if there is anything she could do that wouldn't make me mad---or that I wouldn't find fault in. I wish I could answer this--because I think it would help me a lot. I wish I had an off switch--that made me stop thinking or caring when she came to town. I know, deep down, that I need to stop being so resentful--I'm just at a loss as how to get there.
Posted by RachNRich[/QUOTE]
It's easier said than done.

It really is bothersome that Rich has decided he's firmly in camp sister, instead of camp FI. That's an issue that I'm sure you know needs to be worked on, and really should be resolved before you walk down the aisle.

I wish you luck on finding a way to deal with all of this.

danieliza1127 · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_kind-of-sad?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:95ce3442-daf8-4bf9-92df-69388872a0e3Post:5e975af3-8f25-4a44-9e78-637ede28007a">Re: Kind of sad.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Kind of sad. : I tend to think this exact thing--like, wonderful. You've all moved on. That's super---but I was really hurt by it. But, in the same breath---it seems like I'm doing to her what she initially did to me--which doesn't make me any better. My justification is that of a 5 year-old "well, she hurt me first---why does anyone expect me to react any differently?" I think Rich would say he didn't/doesn't approve of how she treated me initially. AND---it would require him to say he doesn't approve of how I am reacting to her now. Because she has gotten over it, so should I---and since I can't, it's on me.
Posted by RachNRich[/QUOTE]

So she treated you poorly at first but she's been nice and fine to you ever since? It doesn't sound like it but maybe I'm misreading.

RachNRich · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_kind-of-sad?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:95ce3442-daf8-4bf9-92df-69388872a0e3Post:525fca62-aaa6-47a0-9595-ebe33a8e8d5d">Re: Kind of sad.</a>:
[QUOTE]Is it possible to have an Oedipus complex with your brother? Because that's weird. I really dislike that he's blaming you for this.
Posted by crfische[/QUOTE]

<div>Trust me---this thought has gone through my head a million times. She had him order her dinner the other night for her. I pointed it out last night, and said I thought it was an asshat thing to do.</div><div>
</div><div>His response? "You two pointed out the same thing. She questioned why I ordered your meal for you---wondering if I always do that." </div><div>
</div><div>My response: "First--we split a meal---no need for two people to talk to order one thing. And second? We have sex. You're allowed to order my meal. There's clearly a different dynamic here."</div>

squirrly · February 2010

It needs to be ok with Rich for you to dislike her. It really does. I think once that happens, it will all be a lot easier. So long as he expects you to sweep it under the rug, you're going to be resentful - you've just managed to aim the resentment at her instead of him. Fix the problem with Rich and let the rest work itself out.

And, stop beating yourself up. She was a horrid biitch about meeting you, and has subsequently been a biitch by refusing to talk about it with you. I really don't think you should be mad at yourself.

SwedishChick2011 · February 2010

Seriously, I'd tell your FSIL to shove it. She can't treat you like shiit and then expect you to be her BFF. I'd be civil and THAT'S IT. It really sucks that your FI is not supporting you in this either. Expecting you to be interested in her life after the way she treated you is fuucking ridiculous.

vallyhoo · February 2010

I may be in the minority but I don't get the sense that her whole family has gotten over her being incredibly rude to you. They've just dismissed her behavior. She hasn't done anything to make amends (I've skimmed so if she has, I missed that.) She still acts ridiculous when it comes to your relationship with Rich. Her family has just accepted that and allowed her to be a heinous biitch for the most part. And Rich has also condoned that behavior.

RachNRich · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_kind-of-sad?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:95ce3442-daf8-4bf9-92df-69388872a0e3Post:0affbdbe-cc90-4e17-9b8e-409cddabadb7">Re: Kind of sad.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Kind of sad. : So she treated you poorly at first but she's been nice and fine to you ever since? It doesn't sound like it but maybe I'm misreading.
Posted by danieliza1127[/QUOTE]

<div>If I answered this, I'd be putting my bias in it. Things that others would say was nice, I'd say had a bit of a dig in it somewhere. It probably doesn't sound like it because of how I see it (which, in turn, is how I portray it). </div><div>
</div><div>Is she overtly being a bitch? No. Do I think there is a lack of consideration in certain aspects? Without a doubt.</div>

jasmineh7777 · February 2010

How old is Rich?
Was it initially that she was being over protective of her younger brother? I'm really just searching for a way to make this sound less creepy.

louisvillebride21 · February 2010

It sounds like she wants her creepy, over the line of appropriate relationship to stay the same with Rich, while you cater to her every whim while she visits you. Until you tell her to shove it and get over what happened before (which sucks because she never apologized), it's going to keep happening. I feel like you're letting this behavior continue and she sees that. You are catering to her because every time she makes a comment about how you haven't done something right, you change it. So next time just say 'I'm sorry you feel that way" and move on. I think it's the only way to save your sanity.

I'm sorry you're going through this Rach.

danieliza1127 · February 2010

This all kind of reminds me of my ex-SIL and my Mom. They got off to a rocky start with each other and from then on, every thing that was said and done was taken wrong and poorly and it was just a mess. The first time ex-SIL came to meet all of us, she took a pill and just slept in the basement the entire time. It was really odd and off-putting to all of us. We understood being nervous, but we're an easy going group and it was just freakin weird of her to do that. Anyway, then at some point something my Mom said or did rubbed exSIL the wrong way, and from then on it was like nothing either of them said or did was right in the other's eyes. I was witness to a lot of it and let me tell you, the time my brother was married to this chick was a VERY tumultuous time in our family. Just hurt after hurt after hurt on both sides and there was no resolving it. It's really hard to overcome things like that when you feel it so deeply and feel like you're the only one seeing what is happening. I realize this story probably isn't comforting, but it's just what your situation reminds me of.

Andrea_Lea · February 2010

[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Kind of sad. : I tend to think this exact thing--like, wonderful. You've all moved on. That's super---but I was really hurt by it. But, in the same breath---it seems like I'm doing to her what she initially did to me--which doesn't make me any better. My justification is that of a 5 year-old "well, she hurt me first---why does anyone expect me to react any differently?" I think Rich would say he didn't/doesn't approve of how she treated me initially. AND---it would require him to say he doesn't approve of how I am reacting to her now. <strong>Because she has gotten over it, so should I</strong>---and since I can't, it's on me.
Posted by RachNRich[/QUOTE]

Except she really hasn't gotten over it, she's still acting all passive aggressive AND the troublesome thing beyond her behavior is that Rich is condoning it and allowing it to continue.

Sure I think you need to be civil and not leave a room when she enters it. Don't be so petulant. On the other hand, you shouldn't be admonished for not asking her how her job is. Does she ask about your well-being? (I think I know the answer).

Be the bigger person, Rach. You don't have to be best friends but you can try to be less obvious about your disdain for her.

[Deleted User] · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_kind-of-sad?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:95ce3442-daf8-4bf9-92df-69388872a0e3Post:5e975af3-8f25-4a44-9e78-637ede28007a">Re: Kind of sad.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Kind of sad. : I think Rich would say he didn't/doesn't approve of how she treated me initially. AND---it would require him to say he doesn't approve of how I am reacting to her now. Because she has gotten over it, so should I---and since I can't, it's on me.
Posted by RachNRich[/QUOTE]
lemme ask you this - did she simply stop treating you as crappily as she did in the beginning, or did she ever actually apologize for it?

sarabellam · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_kind-of-sad?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:95ce3442-daf8-4bf9-92df-69388872a0e3Post:5e975af3-8f25-4a44-9e78-637ede28007a">Re: Kind of sad.</a>:
[QUOTE]Because she has gotten over it, so should I---and since I can't, it's on me.
Posted by RachNRich[/QUOTE]

To me, it doesn't sound like she's "gotten over" anything. Yes, she has moved from being aggresive to passive-aggresive, but that's about the extent of it. Quick question - are you taking prednisone currently? I know I had much different reactions to people and situations when I was taking it. Is it possible that the side effects from the medication may be influencing your reaction to her behavior (which is a whole big douchebaggery to me, and Rich isn't completely absolved in my mind, either)?

JanoBean75 · February 2010

WTF kind of person doesn't want her brother to be happy and in a relationship?

It sounds like SHE'S the one with serious issues -- a woman in her 30s refusing to take a group picture because her brother's future wife (not fling, but WIFE) is in the picture? And people were okay with that?

She's not worth your worries, but Rich is...so I'd just fake it if I were you. Stop emailing her (unless you cc him on it, lol) or trying to talk out your issues. Clearly she doesn't want to talk about it. You'll have to figure out how you can either let it go or get over it. Maybe imagine kicking her face in when you're asking inane questions about her job. I kick people in my imagination all the time so I don't have to actually do it. Works for me.

You don't have to like her, she doesn't have to like you. I don't like my BIL because I think he's a dumbass, but he's good to my sister and she loves him, so I'm nice to him. But I don't like him.

RachNRich · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_kind-of-sad?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:95ce3442-daf8-4bf9-92df-69388872a0e3Post:bdd7cc13-b365-496e-9a88-21e69c8f419b">Re: Kind of sad.</a>:
[QUOTE]Except she really hasn't gotten over it, she's still acting all passive aggressive AND the troublesome thing beyond her behavior is that Rich is condoning it and allowing it to continue. Sure I think you need to be civil and not leave a room when she enters it. Don't be so petulant. On the other hand, you shouldn't be admonished for not asking her how her job is. <strong>Does she ask about your well-being?</strong> (I think I know the answer). Be the bigger person, Rach. You don't have to be best friends but you can try to be less obvious about your disdain for her.
Posted by Andrea_Lea[/QUOTE]

<div>She does. </div><div>
</div><div>So, the obvious response would be for me to return the question---I just feel so ridiclous playing a game of back-and-forth (she asked this, I answered. I ask her the same thing, she answers----it's all very fake to me). </div><div>
</div><div>I agree, 100%. I need to be the bigger person. We do not have to be friends, or eve like each other. I think we (Rich and I) agree on this----we just have to be able to be in the same room. I'm fine when it's a big group---family Christmas gathering? 10 people? Don't mind if I do. Just the 3 of us? I clam up. </div><div>
</div><div>I need help <img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-embarassed.gif" border="0" alt="Embarassed" title="Embarassed" /></div>

beatlesgirl25 · February 2010

This is a fuckedup situation, and I'm so sorry that you are dealing with this right now of all times. Okay, so FSIL is treating you less crappy than before... that doesn't mean she's reformed or cares any more about you necessarily. It just means she has made you lower the bar on your expectations of decent human behavior from her, so that when she doesn't treat you like shitt everyone will give her a gold star and you'll look like the asshole for not commending her. I don't see how you can possibly take her attempts to make amends seriously if she is still having Rich consult on all your communications.

That said, I hope you can keep from painting too bleak a picture of the future with her. Things can get better between you, but it will take honest work on both your parts. And I'm guessing that with your health issues, life and wedding stress, your tolerance for things like this has decreased significantly, and/or you are feeling more vulnerable to personal slights such as the ones she inflicts on you. Maybe you guys could take a break from the "making up" until you are in a less stressed position to deal with it. She can't just have it when she wants it.

salt78 · February 2010

I think she's the one that needs counseling and not you. The way she is with Rich reminds me of how FI's creepy cousin is with him. I don't want that girl around either and I hate the fact that we had to invite her to the wedding and our BBQ in May.

Thank god she's not coming to the wedding.

louisvillebride21 · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_kind-of-sad?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:95ce3442-daf8-4bf9-92df-69388872a0e3Post:49ee505e-505a-4227-a0f8-a05e4549f8b9">Re: Kind of sad.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Kind of sad. : She does. So, the obvious response would be for me to return the question---I just feel so ridiclous playing a game of back-and-forth (she asked this, I answered. I ask her the same thing, she answers----it's all very fake to me). Posted by RachNRich[/QUOTE]

Maybe it's just me...but this is kinda how conversations go with family I haven't seen for awhile. I guess because I genuanly care about how they're doing, it doesn't feel fake. We get all those questions out of the way and then the conversation becomes more organic. We don't just jump in a conversation like "Oh, so I went shopping the other day and got a great sweater" before doing some reconnecting if it's been awhile. Even FMIL, who I usually see every two weeks asks how I've been and I do the same. But again, that could just be my family.

goheels05 · February 2010

Geez. I'm sorry Rach. This blows. I don't have much to add to what the others have said, but give therapy a chance. When I was seeing a psychologist, we spent a lot of time re-teaching me how to deal with difficult people, and it helped me big time.

louisvillebride21 · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_kind-of-sad?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:95ce3442-daf8-4bf9-92df-69388872a0e3Post:49ee505e-505a-4227-a0f8-a05e4549f8b9">Re: Kind of sad.</a>:
[QUOTE] I'm fine when it's a big group---family Christmas gathering? 10 people? Don't mind if I do. Just the 3 of us? I clam up. I need help
Posted by RachNRich[/QUOTE]

This should make you not afraid of your wedding! There will be so many people there, it won't just be the 3 of you!

J&K10910 · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_kind-of-sad?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:95ce3442-daf8-4bf9-92df-69388872a0e3Post:bb0a48f1-e3c0-4aa4-bc5b-e852ee11ada9">Re: Kind of sad.</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm really trying to come up with any justification I can that would make her not psycho or have an unusually creepy relationship with Rich and I'm just stumped. Normal people just don't behave like that. I agree with squirrly, it does need to be okay with Rich for you to dislike her. You are completely justified in disliking her. Just because everyone else has accepted her behavior doesn't mean that it is okay. I don't think feeling resentment towards her for the way she treated you is unexpected. I do think though that part of it should be directed towards Rich for his actions in this. From what you've said I don't think he really understands how much this is bothering you and if he doe, he doesn't care enough to do anything about it, which is an entirely different issue. Would it do any good to tell her that you are still upset about the way she treated you in the beginning? I know she'd just forward it to Rich,but maybe cc him from the beginning and just tell her that you don't want a strained relationship from her but you're still hurt and upset from her initial meeting with you?
Posted by lovethebeach16[/QUOTE]

I think this is a horrible idea. Perhaps it would work with a rational, logical human being, but FSIL is obviously not a rational, logical human being. I think all it would do is put her on the defensive, open up a can of worms, and make everything worse.

RachNRich · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_kind-of-sad?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:95ce3442-daf8-4bf9-92df-69388872a0e3Post:7d31f0ab-9edb-4ee9-8340-f91a38fad62a">Re: Kind of sad.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Kind of sad. : lemme ask you this - did she simply stop treating you as crappily as she did in the beginning, or <strong>did she ever actually apologize for it?</strong>
Posted by daffodil_jill[/QUOTE]

<div>Not that I can remember. I just went back through emails---and no mention of an apology. I know I have sent her hand written letters trying to explain how I feel, and make amends for my role in this---but her responses (via email) just thank me for reaching out---nothing more. </div>

Kind of sad.

Re: Kind of sad.

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