An interesting Dear Prudence

LetsHikeToday · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_an-interesting-dear-prudence?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:47144c29-1f9d-41d4-8ce5-968adc8e97b0Post:939249a9-850f-4f0c-a06a-d3d927888e18">Re: An interesting Dear Prudence</a>:
[QUOTE]<strong>Monkeysip lost me when she stated that slave owners and pro-choice people's feelings are a "little different"</strong>. Also, when she was mystified that a pro-choice person could dislke abortion. Come ON now. I'm not even going to begin to comment on Chels.
Posted by 1covejack[/QUOTE]
yeah... about that

pixiedust84 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_an-interesting-dear-prudence?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:47144c29-1f9d-41d4-8ce5-968adc8e97b0Post:d6675210-ef98-4be5-a737-474158792ae7">Re: An interesting Dear Prudence</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: An interesting Dear Prudence : Why is the divorce word such a no no for you? You will tell her to leave, you won't let her go back, you'll hit the guy, but you won't mention the word divorce. Why not?
Posted by LetsHikeToday[/QUOTE]

I agree, this is so weird to me! I feel like Chelsea just got caught saying something and to not be accused of flip flopping she is backing it up come hell or high water. Chels you have to understand that you telling someone you would advice/support them getting a divorce that youre not deciding for them right? You know they'd still be the one making that decision right?

I can tell you 1000 times to dye your hair blue but only you can do it.

chelseamb11 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_an-interesting-dear-prudence?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:47144c29-1f9d-41d4-8ce5-968adc8e97b0Post:92c7fa41-8bc8-4b1b-98b6-ae9366628f54">Re: An interesting Dear Prudence</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: An interesting Dear Prudence : So you going to answer my questions or what?
Posted by Dot Dash[/QUOTE]

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_an-interesting-dear-prudence?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:47144c29-1f9d-41d4-8ce5-968adc8e97b0Post:92c7fa41-8bc8-4b1b-98b6-ae9366628f54">Re: An interesting Dear Prudence</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: An interesting Dear Prudence : So you going to answer my questions or what?
Posted by Dot Dash[/QUOTE]

Excuse me for posting this before reading your questions. Sheesh.

I answered a handful of them already in what you just quoted.

Why are you ok telling someone that it is never ok to have an abortion but you would not feel it is ok to advise whether or not to get a divorce?
Abortion is killing someone IMO. Divorce isn't life or death. In an abusive situation, you CAN be safe without a divorce, and you could potentially be hurt with one. It's not a complete coorelation.

Why are you ok with helping her prosecute him but not ok with advising her she should leave him?
See what you quoted.

Why do you claim your faith does not impact your feelings on these issues?
Like I said, my feelings on these issues came first. Like someone pointed out (Numbers I think?) because of their correlation there is probably a stronger link than I realize, but because the feelings came first, I don't see it as "I believe this cuz my religion says so".

Why do you back pedal so much?
You just proved my point. When I clarify, I'm not backpedaling. It just seems like it because I'm not articulate.

If not for the attention, then why do you post controversial thread topics and/or opinions and then run from the arguments?
The only time I run is when it's time to back off because it's going in circles or I'm getting flustered and will probably say something even worse if I keep talking. Hence why I walk away.

There, satisfied?

On that note, work aws done about 10 minutes ago and I'd like to go home now. Have a good night everyone.

monkeysip · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_an-interesting-dear-prudence?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:47144c29-1f9d-41d4-8ce5-968adc8e97b0Post:4b812766-6dd6-4c81-adeb-e2ce794211cd">Re: An interesting Dear Prudence</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: An interesting Dear Prudence : Me too. <strong>Taking the life of an independantly living breathing human is never the same as terminating a pregnancy that can not be sustained outside of the womb.</strong> And Monkey you are losing me here. <strong>You seriously can't imagine the type of hate, regret, feelings of failure, and or remorse that might come along with the necessary decision to terminate a pregnancy? </strong> I think you are smarter than that.
Posted by Dot Dash[/QUOTE]

To the first bold: I don't see a difference. A newborn infant cannot sustain its own life either. A newborn infant requires someone to feed them and put them in a secure environment. Without constant care, it will die.

I do see a difference in the mindsets of slave-owners and pro-choicers, but only slightly because most slave-owners DID NOT believe black people were human person with rights. I'm not justifying what slave-owners did, but I'm saying that many honestly viewed black people as a lesser species, without rights. This justified killing them. I don't think pro-choicers are the exact same because they can't really SEE the fetus as person (it looks like a blob in sac in a uterus). It's not like fetuses walk and talk like other persons. But either way, for the most part, the justification is that since it's not a person, you cannot outlaw the killing of it.

To the second bold: I'm not sure what you're referencing. There's a big difference between pro-choicers and those who actually get abortions. I'm sure there's been plenty of pro-lifers who ended up getting abortions. Women who get abortions are sometimes coerced, and are often scared and in extreme conditions. I can only imagine the feelings that must come from knowing you will have to carry and bear a child that you didn't plan and that you can't care for. I sympathize for these women and I think these women need more help financially, emotionally, physically, etc. And if they do make the choice to abort their baby, I'm sure they must feel a lot of emotions. After the abortion, these women still need support.

But I don't feel their decision was right or necessary. I don't see the two as related.

It's like in that thread the other day in which we said that the guy who killed the other man attacking his daughter didn't do the RIGHT thing, but we understood why he did it. I can sympathize with someone without supporting their decision.

chelseamb11 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_an-interesting-dear-prudence?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:47144c29-1f9d-41d4-8ce5-968adc8e97b0Post:3e49a057-6ec8-42b0-bc91-3a1362cd1cb7">Re: An interesting Dear Prudence</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: An interesting Dear Prudence : It wouldn't matter if you did cause she can't or won't answer the tough questions any way.
Posted by Dot Dash[/QUOTE]

Oh eff off Dot. I answered your stupid questions. Sorry I didn't answer them in your allotted timeframe.

Lizzieyounce · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_an-interesting-dear-prudence?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:47144c29-1f9d-41d4-8ce5-968adc8e97b0Post:4f98b873-aa8e-41f8-81ce-f67ac8325878">Re: An interesting Dear Prudence</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: An interesting Dear Prudence : Or maybe the feel bad for the woman because she had to make that difficult decision.<strong> If i choose to have an abortion for whatever reason, that is between me and my maker. It has nothing to do with you. I don't have to answer to you. Reverse the situation. Pretend i wanted to be allowed to tell you that you HAVE to get an abortion because you don't qualify in my eyes to be fit to have a child. Now pretend i wanted legislation that enforces that. Its my belief right? Cant flame that.</strong>
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>Yee gods, I'm breaking my cardinal rule to never have the computer at the dinner table...but Blue, you stated my position perfectly...</div><div>
</div><div>On a personal level I am prolife..but I cannot judge women who have different opinions...I am not God, and I am not without sin...this is where the seperation of Church and State matters. If you can forbid abortion then one can also make it mandatory for just the reasons you mentioned.

</div>

number55 · June 2012

um, no, a newborn can be taken care of by someone else. You cannot take a fetus out of me and expect it to live. Not yet at least. Sorry, argument void.

LetsHikeToday · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_an-interesting-dear-prudence?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:47144c29-1f9d-41d4-8ce5-968adc8e97b0Post:0c5b3025-2570-43a1-be60-dc18a5730ab9">Re: An interesting Dear Prudence</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: An interesting Dear Prudence : I do see a difference in the mindsets of slave-owners and pro-choicers, but only slightly because most slave-owners DID NOT believe black people were human person with rights. I'm not justifying what slave-owners did, but I'm saying that many honestly viewed black people as a lesser species, without rights. This justified killing them. I don't think pro-choicers are the exact same because they can't really SEE the fetus as person (it looks like a blob in sac in a uterus). It's not like fetuses walk and talk like other persons. But either way, for the most part, the justification is that since it's not a person, you cannot outlaw the killing of it.
Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]

<div>I can't even being to figure out a response to this.</div>

number55 · June 2012

Women who get abortions are sometimes coerced, and are often scared and in extreme conditions.

The EXACT SAME ARGUMENT could be made for women who are coerced into NOT getting one. And for the record, nobody pickets outside of clinics screaming that a woman should abort...however....

monkeysip · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_an-interesting-dear-prudence?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:47144c29-1f9d-41d4-8ce5-968adc8e97b0Post:4f98b873-aa8e-41f8-81ce-f67ac8325878">Re: An interesting Dear Prudence</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: An interesting Dear Prudence : <strong>Or maybe the feel bad for the woman because she had to make that difficult decision.</strong> If i choose to have an abortion for whatever reason, that is between me and my maker. It has nothing to do with you. I don't have to answer to you. <strong> Reverse the situation. Pretend i wanted to be allowed to tell you that you HAVE to get an abortion because you don't qualify in my eyes to be fit to have a child</strong>. Now pretend i wanted legislation that enforces that. Its my belief right? Cant flame that.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

I feel bad for the woman too. But again, feeling bad for a woman who is in such a difficult situation doesn't mean I think she should abort her child.

How does this make sense? Of course I'm not going to support this legislation. I don't support any legislation that allows killing. This isn't an issue to me of whether people can force their beliefs on each other. This is an issue of whether killing is

I don't support forcing religious beliefs on people. I have a lot of religious beliefs I wouldn't push on people. To me, the scientific evidence that a fetus is a living, genetically complete human being is enough to convince me that killing it is wrong. The same as killing any other human being. That is why I would outlaw abortion, not because I want to make everyone follow the Catholic Church. And that is why I won't respect other people's beliefs on this issue.

number55 · June 2012

So monkey...what about if carrying the baby is going to kill me...what then? Which choice isn't murder? And who gets to choose?

Girlie1030 · June 2012

Chels, if you haven't left... I'm still trying to wrap my brain around how you claim you won't give people advice on major life decisions (even family planning, despite the abortion cluster). Let's say your friend comes to you and tells you that since her BF won't propose, she's thinking about stopping her BCPs and not telling him so she can "accidentally" get pregnant and he'll have to marry her. Would you honestly sit by and simply tell her "I'll support you in whatever you decide." and not tell her that she's nucking futs?

If you can't trust your friends to give it to you straight, to tell you what they would do in that situation, then you really don't have friends after all.

monkeysip · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_an-interesting-dear-prudence?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:47144c29-1f9d-41d4-8ce5-968adc8e97b0Post:a1be5331-be4d-4380-a0de-41db21e492ff">Re: An interesting Dear Prudence</a>:
[QUOTE]Women who get abortions are sometimes coerced, and are often scared and in extreme conditions. The EXACT SAME ARGUMENT could be made for women who are coerced into NOT getting one. And for the record, nobody pickets outside of clinics screaming that a woman should abort...however....
Posted by number55[/QUOTE]

But I'm not arguing that because women are coerced into aborting that they shouldn't abort. I only brought the coercion up because I'm saying that I can sympathize with the multitude of emotional and motivations going through a pregnant woman's mind.

My argument about abortion has everything to do with the personhood of the fetus, not the mother's motivations.

And yes, another person could care for a newborn. But is that really what constitutes personhood? Person=someone who can be taken care of by anyone, not just it's biological mother? Seems pretty arbitrary.

Like I said before, if you don't define persons as living humans, then you get into all these convoluted definitions.

number55 · June 2012

ah 'getfucked' has been pulled out. Game over.

Blueyed228 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_an-interesting-dear-prudence?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:47144c29-1f9d-41d4-8ce5-968adc8e97b0Post:f2bf97a6-56d6-4226-a681-e360fc5de438">Re: An interesting Dear Prudence</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: An interesting Dear Prudence : I feel bad for the woman too. But again, feeling bad for a woman who is in such a difficult situation doesn't mean I think she should abort her child. How does this make sense? Of course I'm not going to support this legislation. I don't support any legislation that allows killing. This isn't an issue to me of whether people can force their beliefs on each other. This is an issue of whether killing is I don't support forcing religious beliefs on people. I have a lot of religious beliefs I wouldn't push on people. To me, the scientific evidence that a fetus is a living, genetically complete human being is enough to convince me that killing it is wrong. The same as killing any other human being. That is why I would outlaw abortion, not because I want to make everyone follow the Catholic Church. And that is why I won't respect other people's beliefs on this issue.
Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]

How does it NOT make sense?

Lizzieyounce · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_an-interesting-dear-prudence?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:47144c29-1f9d-41d4-8ce5-968adc8e97b0Post:b288907d-fb0c-47d3-81c3-e446884b5952">Re: An interesting Dear Prudence</a>:
[QUOTE]Liz that is the part I still don't understand. Your duty as a Catholic to tell her to leave yet you would support the church's decision to not allow a perfectly good Catholic person the right to remarry and maybe even procreate to create more little Catholics? I don't get it.
Posted by Dot Dash[/QUOTE]

<div>
</div><div>I'm not saying that I would support it....there are a lot of things I disagree with the Church on, but that said, one cannot just ask for and recieve an annulment. If the person were asking for an annulment merely because they wanted to remarry after a divorce, and that first marriage ended because of something along the lines of incompatability, then yes, that marriage in the eyes of the church shouldn't be annuled. However, in circumstances like the Prudence writer described, then an annulment should be granted.</div>

number55 · June 2012

Monkeyslip...Blue's point is that if you can force one choice on a population you could just as easily force the opposite choice on them. Of course you wouldn't argue the opposite but she's not asking you to.

Blueyed228 · June 2012

And where do these types of catholics get off thinking they get to dictate how the rest of us live our lives. Many people dont even believe in your god.

LetsHikeToday · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_an-interesting-dear-prudence?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:47144c29-1f9d-41d4-8ce5-968adc8e97b0Post:3a7f1a32-b2bd-4d2a-b1d9-4060993fb119">Re: An interesting Dear Prudence</a>:
[QUOTE]And where do these types of catholics get off thinking they get to dictate how the rest of us live our lives. Many people dont even believe in your god.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]
Duh. Their research.

monkeysip · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_an-interesting-dear-prudence?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:47144c29-1f9d-41d4-8ce5-968adc8e97b0Post:9f314d2e-8220-44f9-bdce-ac162d20d8d0">Re: An interesting Dear Prudence</a>:
[QUOTE]So monkey...what about if carrying the baby is going to kill me...what then? Which choice isn't murder? And who gets to choose?
Posted by number55[/QUOTE]

Ok, let me first just say that no one gets to choose to kill another. No one. And I really mean that, in every situation, not just abortion.

Second, the fetus is not trying to kill the mother. It's not a "kill or be killed" situation. In most cases, it's not actually the baby that is directly causing the mother to have fatal health issues. It's usually her heart that cannot bear the strain, or similar issues. In these cases, no, I still don't think it's right to kill the child. It's not the child's fault that the mother is suffering, and killing is never justified, no matter what. It's still taking of a life. The doctors can try to do everything to save both. And in many cases they can. If either the mother or the child naturally dies, then yes, that is a horrific tragedy. But you cannot kill one to save another.

Third, in cases such as ectopic pregnancy, or a cancerous uterus, it is justifiable to remove the dangerous organ, such as the cancerous uterus or the ruptured fallopian tube. The child will naturally die from this procedure, as it would die anyways without the procedure, but the doctor is not actually killing it. In ethics, this would be the principle of double effect. It is justifiable to do a good or neutral act, even if there is a negative effect, as long as you're not doing the good or neutral act so that the negative effect will take place.

number55 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_an-interesting-dear-prudence?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:47144c29-1f9d-41d4-8ce5-968adc8e97b0Post:68bb96fb-8985-43ce-b004-5b9f6a252c86">Re: An interesting Dear Prudence</a>:
[QUOTE]To be fair there are lots of religions who believe some of the same crap and even worse. And I disagree with some of the things they are teaching in my own church. Which is why I do not get blindly following rules because "the church said so". That said I will debate all day long with anyone who can make an intelligent argument and still respect you even if you are wrong (he he). You resort to telling me to eff off and all bets are off biittch.
Posted by Dot Dash[/QUOTE]

<div>I agree with that. I am Christian and I don't agree with all the tenants of the faith (although my church does get awfully close to my beliefs). I do have a problem with believers who believe that the rest of the world has to follow their values. I believe that the values of the society as a whole should be represented, not those within a specific faith group. Hence why I believe in the separation of church and state. I believe people of faith should/can run for office but I don't believe their faith should be their platform. It should shape their values but not in such a way that it takes away from the rights of others.</div>

pixiedust84 · June 2012

<p>In Response to Re: An interesting Dear Prudence:
[QUOTE]And where do these types of catholics get off thinking they get to dictate how the rest of us live our lives. Many people dont even believe in your god.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

THE BIBLE SAYS SO! And everyone knows the bible is super true.</p>

monkeysip · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_an-interesting-dear-prudence?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:47144c29-1f9d-41d4-8ce5-968adc8e97b0Post:567dce08-745f-4549-9218-c9bccad584ef">Re: An interesting Dear Prudence</a>:
[QUOTE]Monkeyslip...Blue's point is that if you can force one choice on a population you could just as easily force the opposite choice on them. Of course you wouldn't argue the opposite but she's not asking you to.
Posted by number55[/QUOTE]

I get that, but we force choices on people all the time.

What do you guys think all the current laws are? Why can I not steal, murder or rape? Because a group of people said that I DON'T have that choice.

That's what the law is. It's forcing one group of people's beliefs over another people's.

There are some religions that believe in honor killing. The father can kill the daughter if she dishonors herself. Do we allow that? Why not? It's their belief! No, we don't because killing is illegal. I'm saying that I think that should be consistently applied (i.e. abortion).

LetsHikeToday · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_an-interesting-dear-prudence?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:47144c29-1f9d-41d4-8ce5-968adc8e97b0Post:644a7ab0-9550-4be9-a4f0-e9343d8b0515">Re: An interesting Dear Prudence</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: An interesting Dear Prudence : I get that, but we force choices on people all the time. What do you guys think all the current laws are? Why can I not steal, murder or rape? Because a group of people said that I DON'T have that choice. That's what the law is. It's forcing one group of people's beliefs over another people's. <strong>There are some religions that believe in honor killing. The father can kill the daughter if she dishonors herself. Do we allow that? Why not? It's their belief! No, we don't because killing is illegal. I'm saying that I think that should be consistently</strong> applied (i.e. abortion).
Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]
So the law, no abortions, should be put into law because your religious beliefs say so?

number55 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_an-interesting-dear-prudence?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:47144c29-1f9d-41d4-8ce5-968adc8e97b0Post:b6a3c3f9-cf34-423e-9b17-0c79e0f97b42">Re: An interesting Dear Prudence</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: An interesting Dear Prudence : Ok, let me first just say that no one gets to choose to kill another. No one. And I really mean that, in every situation, not just abortion. Second, the fetus is not trying to kill the mother. It's not a "kill or be killed" situation. In most cases, it's not actually the baby that is directly causing the mother to have fatal health issues. It's usually her heart that cannot bear the strain, or similar issues. In these cases, no, I still don't think it's right to kill the child. It's not the child's fault that the mother is suffering, and killing is never justified, no matter what. It's still taking of a life. The doctors can try to do everything to save both. And in many cases they can. If either the mother or the child naturally dies, then yes, that is a horrific tragedy. But you cannot kill one to save another. Third, in cases such as ectopic pregnancy, or a cancerous uterus, it is justifiable to remove the dangerous organ, such as the cancerous uterus or the ruptured fallopian tube. The child will naturally die from this procedure, as it would die anyways without the procedure, but the doctor is not actually killing it. In ethics, this would be the principle of double effect. It is justifiable to do a good or neutral act, even if there is a negative effect, as long as you're not doing the good or neutral act so that the negative effect will take place.
Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]

<div>
</div><div>Hmm...well clearly you have all the anwers - for you, which has pretty much been my point all along. I am happy that you know what you would do if you were 2 months pregnant with three children at home and had to face the decision of dying (and leaving the first three children without a mother) or trying to carry a baby to term because it would be wrong to save yourself.</div><div>
</div><div>I don't know what I would do and I am happy that I get a choice in the matter. I am also happy that you get a choice in the matter. And your choice to choose the baby over your own life doesn't affect my choice to choose my life over the baby. That's what I love about choice, my choice doesn't affect your choice. </div><div>
</div>

monkeysip · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_an-interesting-dear-prudence?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:47144c29-1f9d-41d4-8ce5-968adc8e97b0Post:e0130fca-4d0b-4f85-82f8-b40460cbe635">Re: An interesting Dear Prudence</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: An interesting Dear Prudence : I agree with that. I am Christian and I don't agree with all the tenants of the faith (although my church does get awfully close to my beliefs). I do have a problem with believers who believe that the rest of the world has to follow their values. <strong>I believe that the values of the society as a whole should be represented, not those within a specific faith group</strong>. Hence why I believe in the separation of church and state. I believe people of faith should/can run for office but I don't believe their faith should be their platform. It should shape their values but not in such a way that it takes away from the rights of others.
Posted by number55[/QUOTE]

This, of course, is the problem. How do we determine what values should be represented? Do we really vote on every issue? If one day 2/3 of the population thought that stealing was okay, should we change the laws?

And if we did vote, *if* the majority voted to ban abortion (I'm not saying that would happen), would the pro-choicers accept this decision and go along with it?

Alas, these are the difficulties of democracy.

ggirl2001 · June 2012

Is the concept of the separation of church and state really lost on people? How is it so difficult to understand that your (general you) religious beliefs should not dictate what I choose to do with my body?

monkeysip · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_an-interesting-dear-prudence?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:47144c29-1f9d-41d4-8ce5-968adc8e97b0Post:8f488382-8af0-4960-8913-997ac93865a3">Re: An interesting Dear Prudence</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: An interesting Dear Prudence : So the law, no abortions, should be put into law because your religious beliefs say so?
Posted by LetsHikeToday[/QUOTE]

While my faith may give my beliefs fervor, my faith did not determine my pro-life beliefs. I too held these beliefs before I converted to Catholicism several years ago.

Obviously I know you guys don't agree, but I think my position is the correct one according to reason and evidence, not religious beliefs.

pixiedust84 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_an-interesting-dear-prudence?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:47144c29-1f9d-41d4-8ce5-968adc8e97b0Post:3c69d5ac-28d4-450c-b24c-199adb0012ee">Re: An interesting Dear Prudence</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: An interesting Dear Prudence : Hmm...well clearly you have all the anwers - for you, which has pretty much been my point all along. I am happy that you know what you would do if you were 2 months pregnant with three children at home and had to face the decision of dying (and leaving the first three children without a mother) or trying to carry a baby to term because it would be wrong to save yourself. I don't know what I would do and I am happy that I get a choice in the matter. I am also happy that you get a choice in the matter. And your choice to choose the baby over your own life doesn't affect my choice to choose my life over the baby. That's what I love about choice, my choice doesn't affect your choice.
Posted by number55[/QUOTE]

Well said Number! We need you to come around here more :-)

cheeseandrice · June 2012

I'm still catching up, but I can quote a whole lot of bible verses too. Ones that say it's ok to have multiple wives, own slaves, kill people who are gay, that I'm not allowed to cut my hair.

So we just get to pick and chose which ones are worthy of using as defenses to being ignorate assholes?

An interesting Dear Prudence

Re: An interesting Dear Prudence

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